The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

This is my first post on this board. During the last week I along with the big tuna have closely broke down film of John Beck.

My Conclusion?  Beck is a Bust and we must act quickly to fix this problem. Below is a link to a video I made exposing John Beck for the real QB he is. Be warned the video is graphic and very depressing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfrjcaA5PvE

I propose that the DOlphins draft Matty Ice with the No.1 Pick.  Or trade Jason Taylor to the Patriots for the Patriots 6th overall selection and then use that selection to trade to the Cleveland Browns for Brady Quinn. With the No.1 overall choice we would then select Jake Long at the Left Tackle.

Either way getting rid of John Beck via release or trade needs to be a top priority. The rest of the team looks fine and if we can fix the QB issue I think we can compete for a playoff berth this year with the talent Parcells has brought to the team and all the trash players he has gotten rid of.

This post sounds oddly like RFK...

I respectfully disagree with you and maintain that you can not base any judgment of John Beck on last season's dismal performance.

Welcome to the forums.

Thanks for welcoming me to the Forum. Have you watched the clip I made on You Tube?

There is all the evidence you will ever need.  Beck has zero awareness and his hands are way to small to play at this level.

Yo OP this isn't a joke thread.

John Beck is such a bad QB ... behind the worst offense in the NFL? How good were his OL, RBs, WRs, and TEs last year?

Tom Brady wouldn't have won 6 games last year with this team. Beck didn't even play that much. I think this thread should be locked honestly.

Yeah, 'cause most quarterbacks are great when they're getting blindsided 2 seconds after the snap (with no room to step up in the pocket, I might add).

If you all did any research on Beck when was a prospect, like actually watch him play and break him down, then you'd see he has a lot of talent.

Give him and Ted Ginn time to mature in this offense and see what happens.

While I tend to agree about Beck not being the answer (chronic case of Deerinheadlightitis), this post has to be a joke...right?

* New England isn't giving up the #7 overall pick for Jason Taylor.
* If the Pats DID give us the #7 overall pick, the hell if I'd want to deal it to Cleveland. I'd want to stockpile more talent on the O and D line instead.


Easy on the "If you don't agree with me you're wrong" tone there... Some of us watched a lot of his BYU games, and everything he's done in a Dolphins uniform...and STILL don't think he's ever going to be a quality QB.

I agree Beck is a bust, Cameron drafted duds last year like Ginn.
We need to make a real move with our QB position, this has not be addressed since 2000.

I'm not as ready to label Ginn a bust... He's shown some explosiveness in the return game, and progress as a slot receiver. I don't think he will EVER be a #1 WR and justify the high draft pick, but believe he'll be a serviceable WR for Miami.

Well, tough. Not going to happen.

We'll probably draft a second day quarterback, but nobody who's going to be even remotely ready to start games for us in September. Parcell's acquired McCown as insurance in case Beck isn't ready - and as someone who can provide a bit of competition for Beck in camp. That's a solid move, in my opinion, but there's just no way McCown is starting for us in 2009.

In other words, Beck has to be given the chance at some point this season. He may well crash and burn, but since we're not exactly going to make a push for the playoffs this season, the value in finding out outweighs the losses it might cost.

I would just like to withhold any judgment on last year's rookies until after season #2.  Considering the overall health, mentally and physically, of the team as a whole last season, a lot of other factors influenced each player's performance that were beyond his control.

And, Stroke, Deerinheadlightitis is a common disorder eperienced by NFL rookie Qb's.  Most teams choose to allow these types of players to overcome this disorder before placing them into active duty.

John Elway says it takes 6 years to become an elite QB in this league. I think next year is big for John Beck, but your OL still really sucks. Keep building on positions other than QB to improve the talent of this team.

@Stroke: I feel like when you look at players (such as Joe Staley) you see what you see now and you don't see any potential development in them as players.

I.E. with Staley yeah he might be a better run blocker right now, but all rookies are because that is easier technique than pass pro...plus it takes a while to get used to NFL speed.

Ginn has #1 potential. Give the QB an OL and give Ginn an arm at QB (could be Beck or McCown...could not be) and I think he will eventually fluorish.

John Beck is the wrong answer?  That's great and all but the big has been why are all these loser Patriot fans continuing to end up posting in here? (no offense to classy fans we already have) Personally I'm glad that it's not because of John Beck!!  ;)

I will say again: unless Miami can pry away Quinn, the QB answer will be found in the latter rounds of the draft.  I would love to see Quinn brought in for a reasonable amount.

I'm not as down as everyone on this board is with Beck - but facts are facts: the 0-line isn't going to become a stud line over night and our WR are average at best.  Any QB is going to struggle next year, be it Beck, McCown, Marino...

Everyone thought Steve Young was a bust after his seasons in Tampa.  I think he turned out alright.  People seem to have this warped sense of what Brady did in his first season - he didn't put up great numbers, actually.  I will be interested in seeing how Beck grows if he ends up going somewhere else.

Am I missing something here?  Did someone post offensive images in this thread?  Racial slurs?  Homophobic and hateful rants?

We don't lock threads at TDMMC over a difference of opinion.  There wouldn't be any threads unlocked if we did.

(http://xs125.xs.to/xs125/08133/deadhorse216.gif) (http://xs.to)

Give up on Brady Quinn people!  The Browns are not going to deal him.  Let go of the past. Accept it and move on.

QFT

First - opinions.  It's not beating a dead horse.  Second, Cleveland has openly stated that they will listen to offers.  They aren't keeping a former 1st round pick on the roster to rot behind Anderson after handing out that contract.  Finally, this isn't "getting over the past."  This is a simple and easy to follow statement that if Miami could make a move to obtain him, they should.  

While I agree with Stroke and Maine that John Beck isn't the answer, there is no way the Browns are gonna part with Quinn.  He's too valuable.

The Packers didn't part with Aaron Rodgers and the Chargers held on to Philip Rivers for the same reason. 

Tommy...Derek Anderson is about 432 years younger than Favre.  Cleveland is a completely different situation than Green Bay was.  San Diego as well.  Brees was coming up on a contract year, they didn't have both players locked up.  The Browns do.

Matt...I really do look at the long term development of prospects, and found it a little amusing that some of the posters on your site seemed to focus in on that one comment I made about Staley. Yes, I definitely can see Staley improving in his pass-blocking technique, as it is a natural area for offensive tackles to improve in during their first 2-3 seasons, but still believe he will always be a better as a run blocker...and thus best suited for the RT position, rather than LT.  I'm not saying the 49ers won't use him as a LT...just that I think his particular skill set is better suited for the other side of the line.

As a lifelong 49ers fan, I try to catch every game Joe plays, so I expect we can follow up on Staley's situation as it "develops."

Still, the concept is the same.  A QB sitting on the bench who makes starter's money doesn't necessarily have to be traded.

Although I'd love to see Quinn here, I doubt the Browns trade him due to the cap hit it would cause them to take.

I can understand if some people want another QB.  What I can't understand is why it has to be Brady Quinn.

Um no you can't. Plus why would you want to invest that much in a QB when your team sucks so much? (See: David Carr, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch, etc.)

How do we know that Beck is the wrong answer?  Last year wasn't John Beck's fault.  The whole team sucks.  If after this year Beck still looks jittery in the pocket, then maybe we should look elsewhere but there's no way since they just spent money on Josh McCown that they are going to draft a quarterback much before the 4th round.  If they do it'll be a project guy like Colt Brennan.

Just to burst the Bubble of all the "Draft Matt Ryan People" from Peter King's Monday Morning QB yesterday....
"All those people seem like they'd be willing to trade,'' said a man who should know, former coach and now TV analyst Jimmy Johnson. "That would lend itself to a lot of movement, I would think. But will a player be there they all want? With all the guaranteed money now, you'd better be real sure about the guy, and you'd better want him real bad. Because if you miss on him, you really screw up your franchise.''

"Everyone figures Bill Parcells wants to get out of the number one spot,'' said agent Tom Condon. "But who is there [for other teams] to go up to get? Historically, the quarterback has been the guy people want. The question in this draft is: Does anyone view Matt Ryan as the franchise quarterback someone will move up high in the draft to go get?''

Condon represents Ryan, the Boston College quarterback for whom there's been no buzz around, nothing even remotely close to what JaMarcus Russell generated last year. I haven't talked to a soul in the last week who thinks Parcells will take him.


This is Matt Ryan's Agent....Your agent that is supposed to be pumping you up..Creating a buzz for you,Trying to get you every penny he can get.....

That video shows absolutely nothing..We can make a Daunte Culpepper Highlight real that makes him actually look like an NFL QB...but it doesn't mean he's a good QB....

  I don't mean to be rude, but that video is total crap.  If this front office truly wanted to get rid of John Beck, they would've done it already.  It's not like Beck's cap hit is significant.  I hate to burst your bubble, but Beck is here to stay.  None of us really know if Beck IS the answer, but I think this team owes itself a chance to find out.  Everything that has gone on with Beck this offseason has been fairly positive.

- GM Jeff Ireland's Introductory Press Conference.  Here are his words on the quarterback situation and John Beck.  "We're still in the process of evaluating," Ireland said of the quarterbacks. "I know Beck from the college draft last year, but I've got to sit down and really evaluate what you have here and we'll make those decisions. We were high on Beck (in last year's draft), absolutely."

- In a interview with NFL Network, GM Jeff Ireland admitted that the first two players he reached out too was Jason Taylor and John Beck.

- Before hiring Tony Sparano, the Dolphins hire Quarterback coach David Lee.  David Lee was largely responsible for Tony Romo's evolution from undrafted Division II quarterback, to top flight NFL quarterback. 

- Beck has worked with both Coach Lee and Coach Henning during this offseason.  Breaking down game film, learning the new offense, correcting footwork, fixing his delivery, he's thrown 3,500 passes this offseason, and has hired a personal trainer in which he has added 11 pounds of muscle to his frame.

  Beck deserves a shot to prove himself.  If he fails, then so be it.  I at least want too see what we have in Beck, before we just toss him aside.  Beck is working hard to be the best he can possibly be, it won't hurt to give him the opportunity too see if he is the quaterback of the future.  It's not like this team is vying for a playoff spot this year. 

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I'm not a fan of Beck, in particular, but this video isn't really about John Beck.  It's about the ineptitude of our team.  He's getting blindsided and bum-rushed on most of the plays.  He was bad, sure, but I don't think this video illustrates that too well.

I really didn't like Jay Fiedler as our starting QB but I certainly would have given him a bye had our team been as bad as it was for John Beck and it still early in his career.  Results are always based on situations and John was put into about as bad as one as you could have scripted.

Yes it is true in the video is not a fair assumption of his skills. But I had an angle I wanted and went with it. (Beck=Bust, Trade for Quinn or Draft Ryan)

Honestly I think Beck\'s problem is the speed of the game. His first 2 games against the eagles and steelers. The field conditions were horrible which slowed the game down a bit. In the Bills game it was cold and rainy but the Bills play on turf which made the speed much faster then the previous games. Against the Jets and Bengals it was a perfect day. Again I dont think he is used to the full speed of the NFL. I also think he should wear gloves. He seems to not be able to grip the ball.
well at times and has alot of problems with the shotgun snaps.

Despite all of that I am ready to bail on him and draft Matt Ryan no.1 or find a way to trade for Brady Quinn and draft Jake Long No.1 overall.

Even if we do not draft Ryan No.1 and we go with Chris Long. I still think our No.2 is going to be Chad Henne or Joe Flacco.

Anyway he slice the tuna Beck is Toast.

While I think its an amusing Video........its hardly evidence of anything. You can collect all the bad plays of Any Quarterback out there and make a similar Video. As Mush As I hate that last admin. and as much as I believe the Dolphins missed out by not taking Quinn over Ginn..........I'm just not ready to throw the towel in on John Beck. He was put it in the worst weather conditions on the road with a horrible Team and coaching staff.  I'll give him a few more snaps this year in spring Training before I make any more judgements on the kid.

If we just went ahead and pulled the trigger on Matty Ice. Things would be alot different.

Let Matty, Beck and Josh battle it out in training camp.  Picking Chris Long is just dumb his only claim to fame is his dad. Plus we allready have a Chris Long on the team his name is Matt Roth the SICK FREAK GLADIATOR!

Matt Roth is an unstoppable force. His motor never turns off and he could learn to play linebacker.

Your man-love for Matt Ryan is, quite frankly, disturbing....

I thought it was just me.

Whats wrong with Matty Ice?

Everyone seems to think he is a franchise QB. Why cant you guys see that. Rivals.com has the Fins taking him No.1

http://nfldraft.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=775564

Might as well get used to it.

ICE ICE BABY STOP QUARTERBACK A BIT AND LISTEN MATTY ICE IS HERE FOR A REASON. JOHN BECK SUCKS LETS GET ON A ROLL AND WIN SOME.

ICE ICE BABY.

I WANT TO HEAR THAT SONG EVERTIME HE THROWS A TD!

There's a rather largish key to the left of "A" on your keyboard. Press it.

And, no, "Matty Ice" is not here. Not unless your real name is Matt Ryan and you're just trying to pump yourself when even your agent has thrown in the towel ;-)

I PRESS IT AND NOTHING HAPPENS?????

I have never heard him called Matty Ice and that is about the stupidest nickname I have ever heard.  It sounds like a cartoon character.

I don't put any stock in mock drafts.  He may be the best QB in the draft, but he is far from the best player in the draft.

As Brain says, your man love for him is disturbing.  The Dolphins will not draft him, get used to it.

I am with all the way on Matt Ryan, but I don't like the idea of Quinn.

  I've been and still am a huge Matt Roth fan.  However, Chris Long is far and away a better player than Matt Roth was coming out of college.  Chris Long's claim to fame is because of his Dad?  You must not watch a lot of college football, Chris Long is hands down the number one overall pick. 

I think that Derek Anderson was a flash in the pan last year. Defenses across the NFL will be ready for him and he'll come back down to Earth. If you're the Browns, you keep Brady Quinn regardless of any type of offer or situation.

I've said it before. Beck is not the next Dan Marino but the next Bob Griese. Beck could do wanders in a ball control smash mouth offense with the tools around him. If Beck can be effective by throwing between 25 or 30 times a game, you'll see a difference.

Plus, player development at Miami has been bad since Jimmy left. Look at all the guys at any position that were cast off and are starting and being productive with other teams in the league.

Dan Marino could have very well been a bust (at least that's what draft charts said in 1983 when he fell down to the number 27th position). Marino came into a great situation with a great offensive line, the best receiver corps in the NFL at that time and the Killer B defense.

Beck or any other Miami quarterback doesn't have that luxury.

His problem is being on a team that sucks. Speed of the game means squat right now.

Why, why, why? I think I have explained it to you a million times, yet you still keep saying the same old thing about "starter's money" and his "big salary", etc. Quinn's contract is not that big. His base salary is only $750,000. He has a lot of incentives, but unless he see's the field, those don't get paid. So he is NOT making starter's money. As for his cap hit, I don't recall (nor do I feel like looking up) what his signing bonus was, but since he was drafted in the 20's, I don't think its that much of a cap hit if they trade him.

His contract was reported at $20.2 million for 5 years with another $10 million or so in performance-based incentives. The signing bonus was $7.75 million.

In other words, he earns around $4 million a year sitting on the bench. We pay McCown a bit over $3 million a year.

I looked up a couple of other backups:

Charlie Batch: $1.4 million.
Seneca Wallace: $1.5 million.
Ryan Fitzpatrick: $0.9 million (minimum RFA tender).
Brad Johnson: $2.5 million

It's surprisingly difficult to find backup QB data these days... and it doesn't help that the NFLPA have shut down outside access to their database. The only conclusion seems to be that backup QB salaries vary a great deal.

I know you are usually good at hunting down contract info, but if you gravedig some threads (I'm too lazy to do it), you can find a thread with several articles I quoted for Tommy which all state Quinns base salary for the next several years is only $750,000.

But if his signing bonus was big, trading him would accelerate that bonus for the Browns, thus crippling their cap.  They can't afford that right now.

I have no idea what his base salary is for next year, because the NFLPA decided ordinary people shouldn't be allowed access to this data.

Therefore, the only information I have is for his total contract, as reported in the media, e.g. here (http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/story?id=3456105&page=1), here (http://beat.bodoglife.com/sports/brady-quinn-ends-holdout-and-signs-deal-with-browns-28223.html) or here (http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/2007/08/brady_quinn_says_his_goal_is_t.html) (those "here"s are links, but unfortunately the site layout specifies that links should look exactly like ordinary text, so sometimes it's hard to see).

I think this is a great observation!  If the Dolphins can find a way pound the ball and run some clock I think Beck would benefit greatly from this.  Unfortunately, this is dependent upon Ronnie coming back healthy and Ricky not having his head next to his colon.  I remember reading a statistic before the '07 season saying that when Ben Roethlisberger throws the ball more than 25 times in a game, the Steelers chances of winning fall DRAMATICALLY.  I think John Beck puts the Dolphins in a similar situation.

This is the worst kind of statistics. Utter BS. There's an implied causality that's the inverse of what is actually the case.

In games where the Steelers are AHEAD, they run the ball.
In games where the Steelers are BEHIND, they throw the ball.

Neither speaks to HOW they actually got ahead or behind.

This is exactly like the pathetic "we need to run the ball 30 times to win". Sure, if you look a games where we ran the ball a lot, we probably did win almost all... OTHERWISE WE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN RUNNING THE FREAKING BALL!

I blame the talking heads for this one. There's just no way to excuse this kind of pitiful ass backwards analysis.

You're right, i think it was too early to process the logic on that one

His unatural man love for Matt Ryan is downright pornographic. It makes the man love JTex expressed for Brady last season seem truly platonic.

With the exception of the 2000 Rams (who barely beat the Titans in the Super Bowl), teams that win Super Bowl run the ball more than they throw the ball. It's a random sample and that's what usually wins the big game.

The Dolphins won two Super Bowls with a punishing ground game. In Super Bowl 8, Bob Griese (I think) only threw 6 times and Larry Csonka rushed for 145 yards. You're right. back then, the Dolphins would go down the field with a strong running game and score first taking huge amounts of time off the clock.

A quarterback is better off with a powerful running game than to sit there and chuck it. I'd almost prefer my quarterback to throw only 15 times a game if possible regardless of the situation. Beck may have launched the ball 40 times in college but that's hard to do in the NFL week in and week out.

I looked this up the other night. The Dolphins most dominating performance in the playoffs during the Marino era is when they shut out San Diego in the 92 AFC Divisional Playoffs 31-0. Miami almost ran for 140 yards and Marino didn't throw that much. In the 1984 AFC Championship game when Miami exploded on Pittsburgh in the second half to win 45-28, the Steelers were actually close in that game until Tony Dungy, then the Steelers defensive coordinator, started trying to blitz Marino up the middle.

People can hate on Wannstedt all they want but you have to give Wanny credit for understanding that the Dolphins needed to run the ball first to win. The first two seasons, he pulled it off with Lamar Smith and then with Ricky Williams. Wannstedts problem was that he coached scared and panicked too much. I think that Jay Fiedler, at that time, was the perfect quarterback for the situation but if Fiedler made a mistake, such as an INT, Wanny would order the game plan dumbed down.

I agree, the stat depends on a lot of variables but it's safe to say that a team with a running game and a good front seven stands a chance to go deep into the playoffs.

I don't disagree with that, at all. It's when, in some random game (every single week), a graphic comes up showing that the [Insert Team Name Here] win much more when the team runs the ball more than XX times (or the running back gets more than 100 yards or some similar crap).

There should be an FCC rule that dictates punishment of, oh I don't know, 100 lashes or something for each time a stat like this is brought up.

If you wanted to do it right, you could look at HOW a team gets ahead, but no one ever does that - at least not that I've seen. Even that is liable to have some bias, since most coaches are conservative and will run the ball if they can, so when you start to get a lot of throws, even in a close game, it's often a sign that the team couldn't run the ball...


This is starting to slip into nonsense. Seriously. What did you EXPECT the Dolphins to do when dominating a team completely. Throw bombs? Of course Marino didn't throw much.... they were winning, which is the whole point.

Like you stated, what did you expect the Dolphins to do? Start throwing bombs once they were winning? Well the Patriots did it with success last year. The Rams did it in 2000 when they would be ahead by three touchdowns (funny, no one ever mentions that in the same breath as the 2007 Patriots of running up the score).

But here's the irony about the 92 Dolphins - Chargers playoff game. The Dolphins did not get into the lead with Marino THROWING THE BALL. Aaron Craver rushed for 8 times for 72 yards and Bobby Humphery had 74 yards. It's the first and last time ever in the Marino Era that Miami committed to a running game from the beginning to the end of a game with the exception of the Johnson years when everyone would complain that Jimmy would shut down the offense and let the defense take over.

Miami's Team Stats that year were:

Points Per Game : 21.2
Offensive Ranking 8th (NFL)
Defensive Ranking 11th (NFL)
Points Allowed Per Game: 17.6
Total Rush Yards From Scrimmage:*1525 (who says that Marino didn't have a thousand yard back)
Rushing Yards Avg: 3.8

This flies right in the face of those that say Marino NEVER had a running game.  When the Dolphins committed to the run, that's what beat San Diego and not Marino's right arm. The running game is what got them to the 1992 AFC Championship Game.

I've stated this before. Marino absolutely HATED running plays. This game showed that the Dolphins, if Shula would have been more adamant about it, could have blew teams out of the water as long as they were committed to running the ball with Marino still as a weapon. I watched the game and was totally surprised.

The Dolphins two years later went into San Diego and was up 21-6. They were dominating the Chargers but in the second half, were a different team. WHY? Because they weren't committed to the running game. They were dominating San Diego then so what was the difference between the 1992 Divisional Playoff Game and the 1994 Divisional Playoff Game?

Establishing the running game and staying with it.

Two of the same scenarios. Miami dominating San Diego in 92 because of the running game.

Then Miami losing to San Diego 22-21 in 94 when not shoving the ball down San Diego's throats.

A side note on the 92 San Diego game. The Dolphins surprised everyone when they came out with a mantra to run the ball. No one expected Miami to punish the Chargers. Miami was installed as three point favorites to win the AFC Championship Game against Buffalo at JRS the next week because of such a dominating performance. The headline was that "Marino finally has a running game".

What do the Dolphins do? Go back to the same old chuck and bomb offense with no balance. Final score Buffalo 29 (with a trip to the Super Bowl) and Miami 10.

That's the last time Miami ever came close to going to a Super Bowl.

You're right about one thing. You don't know from game to game what scenarios that teams get into to get them behind the 8 ball. Special teams and turnovers are the wild card in this situation.

But every team is going to have a base philosophy whether it's run/pass or pass/run, 3-4 or 4-3, etc

Some stats do have merit. How do you explain a stat such as when Edgerrin James runs for 100+ yards, the Colts win 96% of their games or when Tom Brady is sacked more than three times, the Patriots lose 60% of their games.

Stats aren't the Gospel. That's why they are called Stats. Baseball stats are very confusing but people use stats to measure hypothetical situations. Sometimes their in the ball park and sometimes there aren't.

Back to the Beck thing without further hijack. I don't see John Beck as a gunslinger and that's what the Dolphins need. I don't know why everyone wants a 6'6 quarterback that can throw the ball through a wall. They usually don't work out (see Ryan Leaf, Jim Yuckenmiller and Dan McGuire). Tom Brady is a smart %$^( quarterback and knows how to use all his weapons like Montana. Take Marvin Harrison away from Peyton Manning and he can't function. Beck has the brains to be a Bob Griese type of quarterback.

I agree that todays commentators are clueless and they don't do their homework like in the old days. they have a stat guy handing them stats as they call the game. Commentators use to actually chart games like coaches but those days are gone. That's why I put the volume on mute when I watch a game. I'd rather chart key plays or get different views from people here on the forum.

I'm sorry for plucking out a couple of sentences in the middle of a long reply and just focusing on that. I generally consider it bad etiquette, but I don't have much time right now and while I think we actually agree for the most part, I do want to quickly make a point...

I don't have any problem "explaining" those stats. The Edgerrin James one is the "worse" of the two, and the most common, so let me tackle that: There are basically only two situations in which he would get 100+ yards:

1) The Colts are ahead, so he gets lots of touches. Running takes more time and the risk of losing the ball is smaller.
2) James is slicing through the opponents defense.

In either case, of course the Colts win almost all those games. (As a side note, Aaron Craver's 8 rushes for 72 yards falls solidly in the #2 category).

Anyway, my problem isn't with the statistics themselves. It never is. They are what they are. My problem is with their usage and the conclusions the "talking heads" draw from them:

How often have you seen a game and a stat like that pops up, e.g. the team always wins if the running back runs for more than 100 yards. Talking head #1 quickly asserts that the team needs to give the ball more to the running back, despite the fact that he's fumbled the ball twice and averages 2 yards a carry. Talking head #2 immediately agrees, stressing the "never give up on the run" mantra.

All this video showed me was how bad our O-line was.

If you have to hide John Beck by playing smash mouth football and having him throw only a limited number of times you are only validating the point that John Beck is a bust and we have to hide and protect him from failing like in my video John Beck is a Loser.  ;D

A little food for thought for all those people think they're So smart....thinking Beck is a total bust......(I mean all this has nothing on a homemade stupid You tube Video... ::) I mean it's on youtube,it's gospel...)

Doug quoting Cam Cameron a couple of weeks ago,that He had no intentions of starting John Beck at all last season..After Cleo Lemon was ineffective the team needed a spark....(in essence,paraphrasing what Doug said) He then went on to talk about the different plays being called while John Beck was in the game,and Cleo Lemon...

But that's not here nor there.....
Some of you people want to judge John beck on this...John Beck started 4 games,played in 5 games...Which is amazing that you can tell he;'s a bust on a crappy team...That's amazing! What NFL team do you work for? People that get paid to make decisions realize that most guy's don't light it up in the first 4 games they start...and They require talent around them.....

A list of Qb's that ...Well took awhile for someone to see they were NFL Quality....

Joe Montana - some people think he's the Greatest QB ever to play the game.....Drafted 3rd round 1979...Started 1 game his rookie year...his 2nd year in the league,wasn't even the full time starter split time with Steve Deberg....Wasn't the full time starter till his 3rd year.....8 time pro bowler,7 time all pro

Steve Mcnair - drafted 3rd over all 1995 ....Started 6 games the first 2 years in the league...Not a Great QB...definately servicable....3 time Pro bowler 1 time all pro...

Brad Johnson - Drafted 1992  Didn't make his first start till...1996...didn't get a consistent chance to start till 1999..May not be a great qb...has a couple of pro bowls to his credit...

Jim Harbaugh - drafted 1st round 1987 Didn't become a full time starter till 1990,1 pro bowl,1 time all pro....

Tom Brady - Yeah he was a 6th round draft choice...but sat a year behind Bledsoe,and 2 games of the 2001 season..before he got his shot....

Drew Brees - Everyone forgets he sat on the bench for a year...Then it took him a couple years of starting before it "clicked" all the sudden he was a good QB...he's a 2 time pro bowler 1 time all pro....

Stan Humphries- Drafted 1988,Didn't make his first start till 1990...Hell had to be traded to the Chargers before someone thought he was a starter....Was 1992 before he was a full time starter....

Matt Hasselback - Drafted by Green Bay in 1998, didn't get a start till he was traded to Seattle in 2001....3 time Pro bowler 1 time all pro....

Rich Gannon - drafted by New England in 1987, got his first start with the Vikings in 1990...Started 3 years with the Vikes...Then went to Washington,then K.C. never really started constantly till he got to the Raiders in 1999...where he became a 4 time pro bowler,3 time all pro....

Marc Bulger- Drafted in 2000 by the Saints didn't get his first start till 2002 With St. Louis...2 time pro bowler....

Mark Brunell- Drafted 1993 by Green bay...Didn't play a start in 1995 With JAX....
he was a 3 time probowler....

I tried to keep it to names most people older than 18 would know.....

It just amazes me,how people think Matt Ryan is the answer, a guy that hasn't played a down in the NFL....and KNOW John Beck is a Bust....after 4 starts..... ???

Just something to think chew on....while we're making snap judgments....