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I ask this question because,Alot of people tell me..."B..You'll make a good Father"....

The thought of having Kids kind of scares the hell out of me,I mean I need the woman first...I've always felt like,It's less about my choice,and more up to the woman I'm with,I get the fun part,she get's the drag of carrying the kid for nine months....If I don't have kids,then so be it,If I do...then that's ok too....

I'm the baby of the family,My 2 older sisters had kids when I was still fairly small...and now they're having kids...scarey enough....I've never had to really do alot of baby sitting,I've not been around alot of kids....I've finally gotten over they're little Shit,Drool,and puke machines....

So what makes a person a good father,before they've ever had kids?

I think there are lots of reasons why people say it.

It's probably most-often tied to youthfulness in responsible adults.  You seem to be involved in fun things - games, sports, etc.   Yet, you're not a derelict.  So, people assume that if you have kids, you'll be active in their lives with the same kind of things you already do.

Most guys I know are kind of scared off by babies, unless they have their own kids.  My husband was terrified before our first was born, but he is a great dad.  :)

He's always been a bit of a big kid himself, not afraid to get down on the floor with the kids and play with them and be silly.

Time and patience.  Spend time with your kids and be patient.

^ that goes for moms, too.

B I have a couple people who always tell me that also. Your guess is as good as mine.

I have NEVER been told that I will be a good mother. I see that as a positive since I do not want children.

I think when people say that someone will be a good parent it means you're settled, rational, patient, level headed. Throw in a touch off stability and there you go.

Being a good father, just as a mother, means being there for your kids.  Making your kids a top priority instead of an additonal burden is key to being a good parent.  It drives me crazy to see parents who think their life should not change because they have kids and the kids become just another "to do" thing they have to deal with until they can go out.

Also a pet peeve of mine is fathers who say they have to baby sit their kids.  It isn't baby sitting if it's your kids. Is called being a father.

Ohhh I have the same pet peeve and I don't even have kids! My BIL does that to my Sis all the time and it TICKS me off.

Be there for your kids.  Even if it's from a distance, like in my case. 

I call my son all the time to see how he's doing.  When he gets in trouble in school or at home, his mother calls me and we decide on a punishment together.

I get custody of him during his spring break and all summer long, and that's our special time together.  Granted, he'll make some new friends up in my neck of the woods.

When chicks say you will make a good father it means they want to bang you or are looking for a sucker to take care of their kids that their biological father doesn't take care of.

Everyone is "great father" material with OTHER people's kids because you see them, its fun and games 24/7, and then you can turn around and leave with no responsibilities.

Unselfishiness.  Be ready to pass on the Dolphins game at 1:00 if he has a party or a game of his own to attend.

If your not ready to put in the time you shouldn't have a Kid. Its the toughest job on the planet and Its no 9-5er. Its 24-7, 365 days a year. Maybe for the rest of your life.   

I totally disagree. I think Brian will be a great father some day, I see that when we're babysitting my niece. I also know his personality and how he handles life in general. I have zero doubts that he'll be great dad. Scared shitless of a newborn, yes. but he'd get over it. (he was afraid to hold my nephew when he was a newborn)

Denver, I don't have kids, so I'm not saying this because I want Brian to be the daddy for some other dude's kids. Sorry, but I think you're WAY off the mark there

Word.  It's easy being there during the good times.

I have decided to never have a kid. But, I think a great dad would be a lot like my father. Someone who's not scared at the thought of punishing or disciplining a child, but at the same time will always be there for the kid to hang on to when he (the kid) needs him (the father).

I know others who have made that same decision and I totally respect that. They like to travel and have fancy Toys and are honest enough to just say they don't want children and the responsibility that comes with it. Totally cool with that.

However I do think the same people are going to regret that decision later in life when they are older and ready to leave this world. But that's just me. Nothing males my parents happier then my 2 sons.  Nothing at all.

Says the young (and single) law student.

Come back and see me when you're 32 and see if this sentiment has changed.  Funny how life (and a woman) can sway men who "never want to have children."

:)

For reference, watch the Tom Cruise movie "Cocktail."

"Every man wakes up one day with the wife and kids.  Where did they come from?  They weren't there last time I checked."

As unfathomable as it may seem to the father of an adorable young child (and supreme commander of the upcoming apocalypse), there really are some of us who have grown to full maturity (easy, bruiser) without ever feeling any overwhelming need to start a family.

Or, it may not.  I have been happily married for 7 years, am at complete maturity, and have no desire at all to have children.  As crazy as it seems to people who can't imagine life without their children, not everyone wants that. 

Defense - you said that you think some people will regret not having children when it is time to die. Why do you think they will regret it?

I tell Fau all the time that he will be a good dad...in the Red Foreman kind of way.  I think a good dad remembers what it was like to be a kid but isn't scared for the 5 across the eyes tactics if need be.  However, he has made it abundantly clear that if we have girls, they will be locked up until they're 30 or he's dead.

I'll let defense answer on his own, but since you and I are in the "no kids necessary" group together, I wanted to chime in on this.  Despite the fact that I don't want to have children, and am actively planning on not having any, I do expect to feel some regrets about the decision when I get closer to dying. I expect to have regrets about a lot of things that I've done and decisions that I've made. I think a little bit of 4th quarter hindsight regret is natural, and means that you lived with your eyes open and you learned along the way.

Something about "some of us" and "full maturity" doesn't sit right.   ;)

Disciplining a child is much more difficult for the parent than the child. It means they have to get off of the couch or stop doing whatever it is that they were doing and get involved.  Every since I learned that I feel guilty if I don't follow through on it ... within reason obviously. 

My aunts were that way with my girl cousins.  They either left the house in a wedding dress or on a morgue slab.

I think I may be misunderstood here.  What I am saying is this:

I said the exact same thing when I was a 20-something and working on my Master's and living with roommates.

Life changes in ways that we don't expect sometime. 

I would be interested to see if his stance stays the same.  Maybe it will, maybe it won't.  Of my group of college friends I had a couple that were "I will never have kids" folk.  A couple of them don't.  A couple do.  One guy, Lance, was the king of the "no way, man.  Not me!"  He and his wife just had their fourth child.

I have no intention of having children. I'm 32. I hate when people make it sound like kids accidentally happen and everyone wants one.

...and who is saying that, Buddha?

Unless your goal is head-scrathing en masse, witty zingers that are based on personal neuroses should be fully explained, don'tcha think? ;)

The quote that you put in makes children sound like they accidentally happen:

"Every man wakes up one day with the wife and kids.  Where did they come from?  They weren't there last time I checked."

And, the fact that just meeting a woman, etc means one will lean towards kids. A little absurd, no?

However, you did clarify that you didn't mean for it to come across that way. I had posted at the same time you were.

I know plenty of people (and married couples) who are great with kids and love kids, but don't want their own.  I don't see anything wrong with it.

The quote was from that movie, not my words.  I think it has merit, however.  You're a different case than a 20-21 year old.  As a 32 year old woman - you have your life in motion.  Think back to the thoughts you had 10-12 years ago.  I know, personally, some of mine make me shudder.  So no, kids don't "just happen."  But the spirit of that quote is that one day you wake up and life has fast forwarded a little.  You made all the choices that you could.  But the way your life unfolded at 35 years old isn't always the way you expected it to when you were 21.  Hence the "where did they come from, they weren't here last time I checked."

I'm almost 17 years removed from college life but if I close my eyes I can think back on those days as though it were yesterday.  Sometimes I still feel like that confused college kid but yet here I am - a man with a wife, daughter and a real world mortgage.  I wouldn't trade it for the world, but life whizzes by fast.

When I was 12 I remember vividly saying I would never drink one beer.  When I was 16, after having beer, I remember vividly saying I would never try pot.  I also remember being that bad boy with his silly little motorcycle, three or four girls that all thought THEY were my girlfriend, and what I thought was "freedom" thinking "I'll never get married."  I, like SC, thought that I didn't want kids.

Sometimes you can't map out your life.

Not to hijack this thread, but there are a few reasons I said what I said:

1) as I get older, I'm noticing a larger and larger disconnect between my emotions and my relationships... I am beginning to wonder if I can even fall in love anymore.

2) I just broke up with a girl who really wanted a future with me. Don't get me wrong, it was her decision to end it, not mine... but I won't get back together with her.

3) I find that, when I am alone and without a firmly planted relationship, I'm happier than when I'm in one. I do not mind the lack of sex, because even if I got in a relationship I probably wouldn't do that as per my beliefs, and if I were to start up doing that, I do not think I'd enjoy it much. My conscience would bug me.

I will say, however, Maine's correct. There's something empty about a life filled with neither children or devotion...

Ah youth......we WANT this and DON'T WANT that.Me!Me!Me!My life!I'll do what I want when i get damn good and ready!It's all about ME.lol,funny what happens when the ol' love bug bites.....and how all of our perspective changes.

I do agree with this statement. However, it irks me that when anyone says anything about kids, the first thing they say is wait until you're older. As if children are inevitable and there is no way to avoid them.

^^I generally think that when a woman says "I don't ever want kids" I have a tendency to put more weight behind that other than when a young man says it.

As Landlocked says, men's direction in life a lot of time is swayed by the love of a woman.  A young man doesn't want kids.  He mets his dream girl.  She really does want kids.  Next thing you know, he's thinking in other directions.

Buddha you need to understand something:  no matter what ANYONE says the reply is, generally, "wait until you're older."  It starts as a little kid.  When you're 5 boys are gross.  Adults say "that'll change, wait until you're older."  When you're in school and filled with throughts of idealism and not wanting to make money a professor will say "that'll change, wait until you're older."

The fact is this: time is life's greatest lesson.  A huge amount of younger men and women have that "I never want kids" thought process.  And, judging by the world's population, that doesn't stay true to course...as they get older.

Age changes life persective. 

Maine, I get what you are saying and I didn't mean to make it sound like I thought you were completely wrong.  There are a ton of people out there who say they will/won't do something and then end up doing exactly the opposite of what they say - whether it is by choice or not.  I agree with Buddha though, it seems like with children in particular, when someone says that they aren't having any, people brush it off and tell them to wait until things change in their lives.  That was the only thing I was trying to address about your post. 

SC - Life can be empty without children or devotion?  Says who?  Devotion could be very broad in this instance.  Maybe someone doesn't ever fall in love or have children, but their life is devoted to helping other people, or teaching them, or whatever.  Did Mother Teresa lead an empty life?  I doubt that she felt that way.

Stroke - Yeah, I agree that there will probably be some regrets at the end of it all, but I don't think that mine will revolve around not having children.  However, I can see how it would for some people.  I think that my situation is different because even though we don't have children of our own, we have 27 (and counting!) nieces and nephews.  We are close to most of them and are very involved in their lives.  We have a strong sense of family, and I feel like that support will be there with me forever, so I think that makes it more difficult for me to think that I will have regrets about not having kids. 

I didn't say that!  I know people that are single and don't have kids and don't plan on changing that what so ever and are very happy in life.  Inner peace doesn't have to come with attachments.

All I am saying is that as time goes by, thoughts change.  That's all!  I will be very curious as to where you are in life, in the  regard to kids, in 10-15 years.  It might be the same, it might not - I am not swaying either way.

I think it's important to note that I am not sitting here saying "Ha!  Let's see how many you have when you're 40!"  I am saying "that's interesting, and you might still feel that way all your life.  Or it might change.  You're a young man, I would be curious to see how it shakes out."

What fanatical right-wing institution of higher learning did you attend?  In my region it's the professors who are idealistic.

Oh, alright. My bad.


Well, says me. I'm just stating my opinion, not an eternal law. I should've been clearer about that though. I agree with how you're defining "devotion" and I meant it to be that broad, though within reason.

Wow way to derail this thread.  A good discussion about what makes a good father has turned into a debate over who wants and doesn't want kids.  Nicely done.

 


I can't answer for sure of course. But my assumption would be when leaving this earth to leave nothing behind would be a huge regret. In my line of work I've come across older people who are alone and its the saddest thing I can imagine.  I've been called to Old age homes or even private homes where people have passed and to see the way they live , alone each day craving for anyone to speak to , to relive past memories and experiences with .  then I see my parents who are approaching 80 and its the highlight of any day to spend time with my 2 little boys.  They talk about the past a bit, they are happy to see me doing well in my career and I think it gives them a sense of accomplishment to see what they have created.

Again I have all the respect in the world for those that don't want children. I see far too many that have and do not live up to the responsibility that it takes to raise a child. But for me it would have been a huge regret to not have had my two boys. Someone to share my Dolphin games with , someone to watch grow up with the qualities hopefully I have instilled in them.

The one big regret I have now is I feel very vulnerable now. Before I had my Kids it was basically me against the world. I was untouchable. Now I have these two little Boys and I swear if anything happened to them I don't know what I would do. That vulnerability can really change you. But anything worthwhile isn't easy. And raising kids is anything but easy..........but thats life I guess.

  No statements or any opinions . No one is right or wrong here. This is completely up to the person and how they feel.  Thats just how I feel and that and $0.25 will get you a phone call.  ;) ;D

If You think about it........It really is a huge part in being a good Dad no?  I know a guy who got surprised at age 16 with a son and actually he turned out to be a pretty good dad considering the circumstances. It happens. But I've seen alot of those go bad as well.   But if you can make a conscious decision to be a good dad , planning it with the right Person,  or just deciding weather or not you want one at all.........all of that goes a LONG way to be a good dad. And listening to others suggestions and experiences about why or why not they want to become a dad can also help you realize what  it is that's important to you for making such an important decision and helping you overall become a better father.

This is just not a 1 Topic kind of Topic. This one you need to allow for several other factors that help make a good father.

Yeah, my bad. Sorry.

Nope, not pointing fingers, but I was actually interested in finding out what makes a good father (since everyone seems to think I would) and I have yet to get my information from this thread.

In my opinion, being a good Dad means you know when to be your childs best friend and playmate, but you also know when to be the disciplinarian and don't forget that you are the adult and make the decisions.

Yesterday afternoon, after Josh got home from school, he really wanted to play Star Wars with me. We went outside and had a lightsaber duel which was so awesome and huge that it would make any Star Wars fan think it was scripted by George Lucas himself. The battle was grueling and lasted nearly an hour, making us both work up appetites. I was Josh's best friend (or sworn enemy as the case may be) for that hour. When we went in to wash up and eat dinner, Josh didn't want to eat his dinner, and just wanted dessert. I knew that I had to turn into Dad at that point and make sure he ate his dinner.

^ Good point, Philly.  It seems as though a lot of parents want to be their kids friend and forget that being the parent means that sometimes, you are not your kid's favorite person.

I don't have anything more to add, really.  Good dads spend time with their kids and correct them when needed.

Patience and discipline.

And patience.

I only have one child and he's not quite 3 yet, so obviously that limits my "wisdom".... but, seriously, when I hear people bring up the standard "poop and vomit" thing as issue with kids... well, then they're just not parents. If I had to make a list of the top 10 annoying/tough things, neither one would have a shot at cracking the list.

I should add a fourth point, in addition to patience, discipline and patience: Willingness to sacrifice. Raising kids takes time. Serious time. Even if in a relationship, most people still have plenty of free time. Let's say 9 hours of work, 2 hours commute, and 9 hours eat-n-sleep on a weekday. That still leaves 4 hours for procrastinating, spending time with your significant other, playing games, sports or just generally hanging out. And that's the weekdays. Don't even get me started on weekends.

With kids, there just isn't time for all the "hanging out with friends" stuff, the slouching in front of the TV, the games... plus you'll be so exhausted that even when you DO have the time, you just don't have the energy.

Raising even a single child really is a full-time job. Even if you split it between you, that's still some serious time taken out of your day.

Don't get me wrong: I love my son. He's great. I love spending time with him (even though he can be incredibly exhausting) and there's no better feeling in the world that fatherly pride and love. I wouldn't give it up for anything.

But it's no picnic...

Your not gonna find it in a thread.  I'm guessing people see you as patient and kind. Those are great traits for people to see in you. But only YOU know if you are going to make a good father.  I've seen Homosexual couples who people were horrified to see put in charge of an infant make some of the best parents you have ever seen. Only YOU know if you want to be a dad and what kind of a dad you can and will be. Best thing you can take from this thread is that its very rewarding experience if you choose to take that path and try to get the most of it. 

Self-lessness < if that's a word- but you know what mean. There are plenty of parents out there that do not want to bother too much with their kids- and still want to focus on themselves.

My parents are the very best parents anyone could ask for- I am closer to my parents than just about anyone else is with their parents. I know my parents will do anything for me. My parents have always put me 10 levels above themselves, and a lot of the time I wish they would actually do more for themselves. I moved in August to the NC- I was devastated to leave my parents- but I hated Ohio and didn't want to rot there for my whole life. And now my parents have put their house up for sale so they can move down here too and I can move back in with them (which I can't wait to do).

And a father who can show his kids that he loves them. I had a friend whose dad absolutley never hugged her or told her he loved her or anything- he was just there. My parents have always told me how much I mean to them. I don't know if anyone has heard the song Cleanin this Gun" by Rodney Atkins- but my mom told me when I talked to her 2 nights ago she told me that was how they feel about me. The line she was talking about goes:
So you like my daughter do you now- yea we think she's somethin else..
She's her daddy's girl, her mama's world....

*every parent should say things like that to their kids

I'll add something to this.  When dealing with smaller children, it's not good to pull the good cop/bad cop routine.

Case in point, when my son was 2, I wouldn't let him have gum because he would constantly take it out of his mouth and play with it (one time he put it up his nose). 

One day, my brother was hanging out with the two of us, and we were out in the Coconut Grove shopping district.  I stopped into a store to look at something.  My brother took him around the corner to a Quickie Mart and bought him gum.   

My brother didn't know that my son was not allowed to have gum, so I told him, "If he starts taking it out of his mouth, you're gonna be the one who takes it away from him.  I can't have him go running to his uncle when he doesn't get his way with his dad."

I believe that a good father is someone who:

Loves their child unconditionally.  Is utterly and completely selfless in knowing that the life they are raising is priority one.  A man that is willing to do whatever it takes to do the right thing by that child.  What is the right thing?  That is determined by your own life.  A man's life doesn't end with a child but it's altered to a great degree. 

There is no right and wrong way to be a father.  A good father wants to deliver all the tools to help the child succeed in life.  A good father bends over backwards to keep their child healthy and out of dangerous situations.  A good father doesn't always put the child's needs first because that creates an unbalanced life.  If the father is unbalanced they themselves don't have the tools to teach balance to the child.  The father has life needs as well.

What makes a good father?  Someone that simply has the best interest of their child at heart and does their very best to put those interests in motion.  Everything else is a line between subjective and objective.

I think I'm going to be a ball busting type of Dad.

It irritates me when I see parents bargaining with their kids.  Like when the parent wants to leave, and the kid doesn't, and there's some kind of weird negotiation going on, where the parent is pleading and giving logical reasons as to why it's a good time to leave.  I ask once, then I pull out a chunk of hair.

It's easy to say that now, that I don't have kids, though.

This might be a terrible example, but I'm pretty strict when it comes to my dog.  I'm very consistent with what I expect and obedience is not really negotiable.  I say a command once and the 2nd time, It's strict and forceful.  There usually isn't a second time anymore.  Of course kids aren't dogs, but I see other dog owners who can't handle their animals and they are led around by their own pets.  I also see the same thing in parents.

You could try that, but I don't think that will go over too big once someone turns you in for child abuse or something.

This is why parents are forced to bargain because its not like it was when we were growing up. The kids have more power then the adults now, thanks to the system.

We learned a phrase a long time ago.  Delayed obedience is disobedience. Kids can very easily learn to obey the first time.  It's the parents that have a harder time being trained.

And no ... my kids don't always listen the firs time!  ;)

Discipline was a big part of my upbringing, and I have grown to appreciate what it did for me. One caveat though: it wasn't blind discipline. I knew my parents loved me. They made sure that I knew that before they started ordering me around.

Those bargaining parents are the ones who end up on Supernanny wondering why their kids walk all over them.  You don't have to use a physical punishment, but if you threaten a punishment, you have to carry it out or your kids will have zero respect for you.  Time outs and loss of tv or computer privileges work just fine for my kids.  If they don't listen to me the first time (which is 90% of the time) they do when I threaten punishment.

A good dad is someone who would take a bullet for their kid.  And who will smack that kid in the ass if they are disrespectful.  And will listen to problems and show up to their events...even if it's ballet.  I didn't realize until recently that mt dad pretty much kicks ass.

Oh and before there is an all out war about smacking kids on the ass, I would like to point out for the record that there is a fine line between discipline and abuse and I am sorry, but every now and then a kid needs a slap on the bottom to learn what's what.

I have never spanked my kids and I never will.   If other parents use that type of punishment, that is their business and I am not going to tell them how to raise their kids. 

I take great exception to the notion that "every now and then a kid needs a slap on the bottom to learn what's what."  If anyone spanked my kids, they would have a huge problem with me.  Kids don't need to be spanked to learn a lesson. 

Modified to add:  Before I had kids, I thought spanking was a good idea, too, because I was spanked once or twice in my time.  Things change.  :)

When my father told us to do something when we were kids, we did it "right then," or we felt his smack across our backside. Just trying to imagine my father negotiating with one of us to get us to do something has me laughing hysterically here.

'A huge problem?'  That doesn't even begin to explain it.  At my day care there are a good sort of people.  There are parents that show up with the music blaring in their smoke filled car with the poor kid in the back seat.  All walks of life.  One of these parents had the misfortune of taking something away from my daughter to give it to his kid.  Abby was minding her own buisness and had a ball that she loves in her hands.  Dude's kid was crying so he reached down and snatched the toy out of my her hands and gave it to his son.

The day care's owner and I saw him do it.  I let the owner say what he needed to say and then I dragged the guy into the hall way and let him know, almost word for word - he touches my daughter again and I'll put him through a wall.  In his best John Bender he asked "you threatenin' me?"

My reply was "yes I am."

If I ever witnessed someone STRIKING my child?  I'd snap the person's neck without thought.  NO ONE -- and I mean NOT ONE PERSON ON THIS PLANET strikes my daughter without earning my wrath.  I'm a very balanced and calm person.  It takes a lot to light my fire.  Once lit, it doesn't go out.

/end hijack/

You'll be fine.  Your kids will likely be very successful.

Once again you prove to be the exception to the rule.   ;)

My sister-in-law is a non-spanker but more than happy to tell everyone how to raise their kids..  Her two daughters have total control of the household.  Even the simplest requests turn into long and drawn-out negotiations.  It's funny, sad and pathetic - all at the same time.

^ That is where we differ from a lot of parents.  We have a do what we say or you will be punished mentality.  Our punishments just don't include spanking.  My kids know that they are not the bosses.  They are good kids.  :)

I don't disagree with this.  Kids and dogs aren't that far apart.  What does the dog whisper say the secret is, in order?  Something like discipline, exercise, love...

A child needs discipline, plain and simple.  Now the key is that it's a tightrope.  They need to give you respect but it's vital that they are given respect as well.  They are people, too.  Just shorter and younger.

My father was born in 1922 and raised through the depression.  I was raised by the belt.  Did something wrong, I'd get the belt.  The worst part about the belt?  It made my old man cry to do it.  It hurt like hell physically, yes.  But as I grew a little I started to realize how much he hated having to do it and how much it hurt him.

So, yes - I was in fear of pain.  But I respected the man as well.  I also think it helps that I was enrolled in Karate at a very early age.

I wasn't suggesting spanking anyone but my own kids.
I think if someone were to discipline my child without me they'd be dead.  End of story.

I also think that understand your own kids is important.  I was spanked a few times growing up, but it was never the pain that was the deterrent, I don't think.  There's something else about that act.  All kids are different, and you have to know what motivates them, I suppose.

I agree.  I would have rather been spanked then be told "I'm very disappointed with you"  And being spanked didn't hurt so much physically, but knowing that I had upset my parents was really the awful part of it all.

I by no means am picking on you but this was the example given to me so I hope you don't mine that I quote it. 

If your kids will listen when you count to three or after you have threatened them, then why shouldn't they listen the first time? It's because you have not set that boundary.  They know that you do not mean what you say until they hear that tone or phrase that has become the standard.  Hence, they are free to go up to that point and will even get confused if they were to be disciplined the first time as they would not think they had done anything wrong. 

I don't count to three.  You have totally misinterpreted what I wrote.  Not every kid jumps up and does something the second an adult says to do it.  If they are misbehaving they get a warning - stop or this will be your consequence.  If they choose not to stop, the consequence happens.  There is no counting to three or second warnings or bargaining.  Clear nuff?

I didn't insinuate you counted to three. I was just saying it is simialr to warning them before you actually made them stop there really is no difference. ... and I wasn't even meaning you. I was speaking in generalities.

All CF is saying is that there is a boundary.  It's just a matter of where you set it.

If you offer a warning first, then your child will use that.  Only when they know the consequence is coming will they obey.
So, if you normally count to three, for example, kids will know that they can behave poorly until "three" without consequence.

Nobody is knocking your method of raising your kids.

Ok, I see what you mean.  Counting to 3 is different than saying, if you do x then y will happen.  What happens after 3?

"What happens before 3?" is a better question.  "Nothing" is usually the answer.

Mr. StL has made the kids scatter by saying "one".   :D

Much more clear to me now.

Wow Talk about a little something rambling around in my head,and it turns into a 5 page thread....

I guess I can Chime in on this now....(Excuse me for rambling here,I'm exhausted,and I'll probably read this tomorrow and delete half of it...)

I'm not sure what type of father I'll be,and after reading all the responses I see a few things that seemed to be missed,and not taken into account....I feel your relationship with your father,and how you were raised has alot to do with how you raise your children.I just see it as sometimes people who were raised by very strict parents tend to let their kids get away with murder,some feel like My parents were strict,and hard on me so that's the way I raise my Kids...

Excuse me for getting personal here..I have to bring in my horrible family history......My Father sucked as a father,not just with me,but with my brother and sisters....My Parents were married at 17,with 2 kids by 19 (And Millionaires by 21...)My father owned car dealerships,and got into importing vehicles,then other types of business dealings.So he traveled a lot on business....Yes he was there as a disciplinarian,and provided well for the family. I was told that he was never around,never went to little league games,and tended to throw money at problems....He also cheated on my mother,Multiple times...Luckily My Parents were separated about the time I was born....and divorced when I was very small.....I've talked to my siblings alot about my Father,and they all talk about...Well that's what Grandpa did....That's how he was raised....When My Grandfather died,It was remarkable listening to stories about my grandfather. You would swear they were talking about my father....

My mom got remarried to get me back from my father when he kidnapped me.They were married for 8 or so years....In his family,Most of the men in his family rarely lived past 50....He loved the family life,but also wanted to have a ...umm Fun,party side..He wanted to go dancing,go play in pool tournaments,and basically go have a night life.....My Mom felt like this wasn't a good example of how a father is supposed to act,and she left him....

I think My Brother would have made very good father....The way he treated me growing up,was probably pretty good training...He was very understanding,and adapted well....He had a learning disability,that probably never got diagnosed while he was in school...He dropped out of high school,So he pushed me very hard to at least graduate from high school.When I got a bad grade,it was my Brother that I got scared to show my report card too....He learned a lot from the way My Mom raised us....My older sisters and Brother were wild children...They Burned the garage down,threw wild parties,Did horrible things to babysitters....Everytime they were given an inch,they took a yard....I wasn't a wild child,I got away with alot more because I was different.My mom raised each of us differently....My Brother knew that,and understood it..He also realized that times had changed,(After I saw the Movie Dazed and Confused,it explained alot of the things my brother talked about growing up),You weren't allowed to buy beer at the age of 18....He walked that fine Line of being my older brother looking out for me,Taking are of me,and Making sure I walked the straight and narrow...not to mention be my Brother.....

Sorry about getting personal.....
I know there is no right answer to the question,but Imo,there are a few people here on the board...(even though I've never met anyone) That would make very good fathers,and a few that Scare the hell out of me that they have reproduced....I think it's one thing to say you're a good parent,but it's another one to actually be a good parent.