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I'm not much of a "reader" as of late,but i just finished Anne Rice's book,"Christ The Lord-The Road To Cana" and i just loved it.Actually,I couldn't put it down.Her research was impeccable as she brought to life the customs and day to day lives of the Hebrew people of ancient Israel.I had read her first one,"Christ The Lord,Out of Egypt,and enjoyed it as well.The concept of these works,although fictional,is fascinating to me.Trying to imagine what it must have been like,as a boy and as a man,for Him to have walked this earth working and sweating and feeling every human emotion that we feel....I highly reccomend them to everyone,believer and atheist alike.

I LOVE Anne Rice and have for many years, but I refuse to read these books. She gets diagnosed with diabetes and becomes a Jesus freak? WTF is that all about? She can believe in anything she wants, and I have the right to not care about it.

I'm sure she did a great job with  this book and will also on the future ones. She is a very talented writer. However, I prefer my Anne Rice with a side of dark. I want vampires and witches. She needs to bring back Lestat and the Mayfair witches. Until then, I ain't buying it.

You refuse to read an author that you like because she found Jesus?  I'm thinking if someone said they refuse to watch a Richard Gere, Uma thurman, Angelina Jolie, or Orlando Bloom movie because they follow Buddhism that you would have plenty to say about Christianity and the of lack of tolerance or worse.  The funny part is you half realized what you were saying and tried to cover it up with "I want vampires and witches".  I really don't care what you read but as one who consistantly preaches on here about everyone elses lack of accpetance for differences I found you comments a bit odd. 
 

That's not how I read Buddhagirl's comment, at all. She refuses to read an author that she (otherwise) liked, not because she found Jesus and continued writing the same type of books, but because she found Jesus and started writing books about it (or Him, as it was).

And I'm pretty sure you could substitute "found Jesus" for any other religious or pseudo-religious "awakening".

It seems to me that buddha's decision to not read the books isn't based on whether AR "found jesus" but rather  is based on the subject matter involved. Maybe she likes vampire and witch stories and not jesus and moses stories.

I'm sure that should an athest write a few books about jesus, buddha would be equally uninterested.

No, CF. I refuse to read her books that she wrote about Jesus after she became a Jesus freak.  This isn't about tolerance. This is about one of the best gothic horror writers to come out in a while jumping ship to write about Jesus. I don't care what religion you follow. If your book is good, I'll read it.

However, the *only* reason I love her is because she writes about vamps and witches. She goes back to vamps and witches and all things dark and gothic (which I've heard she is), then I'm there. Until then, I'd rather not. I don't think her behaviour should be encouraged.

ETA:  Thanks to both Fau and fyo for clearing that up.    ;)

I like Anne Rice and I though Memnoch the Devil was very thought-provoking so I will check this out.

Interview with a Vampire is one of the benchmarks of the modern horror genre, and one that should be re-read every few years for aprpeciation's sake.

I'll probably read this new non-vampire book though...just to see if Anne's extremely enjoyable writing style works well with the new subject matter or if she's just using it to try to convert people.

Didn't she write some erotica for a while?

How did I miss that?    :o  :)

^^ I believe she used a pen name some of the time.

Google "Anne Rice Erotica" and you can read all about it.

I'm sorry but this seems to insinuate that the fact she went all Jesus was the very negative for you.  If you say that is not the bottom line ... I'll take your word for it.

I believe her return to Catholicism coincided with her husband,Stan's diagnoses with brain cancer in 1996,Buddha,she didn't find she had diabetes until '98,I think.Anyway,I'm glad she has found comfort within her beliefs.She is a great writer,and no matter what one believes,her works are entertaining.

Her return to christianity was quite recent. I watched the entire interview she did on one of the morning shows when she released her new books. She formally announced that she found Christ and would no longer be writing vamp books.

I have not argued rather she is a great writer or not. The minute she comes out with a vamp book I will buy it. Until then, I will quietly protest.


No. It doesn't. I read books by christians all of the time. Including one of my favorites the Chronicles of Narnia. The entire book is Christian propoganda.

Anne Rice = great horror / witch / vamp novels 
I don't want to read her born again take on Christ. Sorry.

She supposedly is writing another Vampire novel. I will buy it.

^ I've never read the Narnia books, but I thought Christain groups said they were anti-Christain. (this is not the reason I never read them)   ???

CS Lewis is one of the most respected Christians of all time and not just for his fictional books.  I have not read any of the books but I have read many things on CS Lewis himself.  I did see the Narnia movie and you can't help but see the biblical principles that he has paralleled. You and your kids should really check it out. It's an ice breaker for kids and the Bible ... which was his intention.

It would be hard pressed to find a more well written story line packed full of christian symbology than the Chronicles of Narnia.

I must have been thinking of some other fantasy book that was made into a movie that the church was having problems with.   The Golden Compass perhaps?

You may be thinking of Harry Potter.

I've read all the Harry Potter books, nothing in there anti-Christian as far as I was concerned.

Golden Compass was written directly to attack the belief of God. The author makes no bones about it.

Harry Potter was deemed inappropriate for Christians because it deals with magic and withcraft.  Witches, sorcerers, and any magic is unacceptable by God's standards as it comes directly from Satan. God is very specific to stay away from any of it including psychics and mediums or interpreting the stars.  Revelation even refers to a special place in hell that is reserved especially for people who participate in it.  While Harry in and of itself may be a great read, Christians who do not approve of the movies/books explain that to show "good" magic densisitizes children to the actual evils that it really is. The same can be said for Sabrina the Teenage Witch.  White magic is a lie directly from Satan just to get people to feel comfortable with the idea of it.

My kids and I have seen some of the movies but we lost interest.  I use things like this to discuss God's word with them because I realize how silly it seems to keep it from them.

Nobody knows this but I am actually an ordained Christian minister, and the Narnia adventures are definitely biblically based stories. I really enjoyed CS Lewis work and I am waiting patiently for part two this summer. Now the Golden compass was written by an atheist who hated CS Lewis, so he tried copying his work but only in his book and land the goal is to kill God and fight off the enemy the Church. I do not like Harry Potter either as none of our kids have never seen or read any of it. I am not the kind of Christian who protest things and try to stop others from going to these movies, ultimately it must be up to you on what you want your money to support.

Dude...what are you talking about?!?!?!?!

"Good" magic? ? ? ? ?  THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS MAGIC !!!!!!!

Holy crap.

This just in --

Watching "Harry and the Hendersons" desensitizes children to the REAL dangers of Bigfoot.

Took two full paper towels to wipe off the pepsi I just shower-snorted my monitor with...classic!

Side thought:  When The Lion King was the big movie in theaters, or Narnia, or any other movie that portrayed lions as gentle benevolent creatures instead of vicious carnivores...was there a wave of little children climbing over walls at zoos around the world?  Movie World, Real World...two different worlds. I think the whole "desensitizing" issue is nothing short of laughable.

Ok...NOOOOOOW I see what SC was talking about...

LMAO! Dave you're a beast...

Holy Hell!  I just spit my coffee on the monitor.

I realize how easy it is to make fun of these things so be it.  It's quite "human" to think you have everything figured out and anything that doesn't fit into your box of reality is a joke.  It's both unfortunate and sad for you that you are wrong. 

wow, i can see this conversation going the following way:

person 1 - You're wrong
person 2 - no you're wrong
person 1 - no you're wrong
person 2 - no you're wrong
person 1 - no you're wrong

and what does that lead to?

not one person can claim they "Know" what's right and what's wrong .. if you think you do .. you're delusional. there's a reason it's called "Faith" .. because you have to believe it .. you don't "know" it .. if you knew it for a fact .. it wouldn't be faith .. it would be truth.


ps - for the record .. bigfoot is real dammit !

Off the record, I recently found out the inventor of Jack's Links Jerkey was a fraternity brother of mine.

Now something to add to the conversation, I have never read an Anne Rice, JK Rowling, or CS Lewis book because I just don't dig fiction. All of my reading is non-fiction. That aside, I do enjoy the movies of this genre though. I can see where CF has his point. Magic is not real, but the sensationalism behind these books can lead children astray from biblical teachings. I wouldn't think you would have to actually be a practicing wizard to stray from the lessons he wants his children to learn, just playing as a child in that area has already strayed away from the lesson.

Jesus ruins another perfectly good thread.

I'm not sure as to what point you, Dave, or your fiance are trying to make.

I wasn't arguing right or wrong. In fact, I purposely did not try to prove anything.  I was voicing a point of view so that St. Louis could understand why some people were against it.  Believe what you will  because it has no effect on me.  I just think it's sad.

I have to wonder why you guys aren't this dickish in person?   Is it because I bench 450 lbs or just the fact that you have no testicles aside from hiding behind a pc?   I am a Christian but I am not dead. Don't treat me disrepectly and not expect a reaction.

I can't speak to Dave's points. It's not like we sit around coming up with talking points about topics of discussion.

My only point is that belief is in fact just that, and that each person has their own set. I think it's perfectly ok to have differences in beliefs. I'm not too thrilled about seeing things that people enjoy being called satanic .. but that's ok i guess. It just seems pretty negative.

And the reason i'm not "dickish in person" as you put it, is because:
a - i'm a generally nice guy and i've never had a harsh feeling towards you
b - i don't feel the attempt to proselytize in person.

I'll tell you one other thing, the hypocrisy of structured belief (not just christianity) is what bugs me. And is a MAJOR factor as to why i don't follow western religion.

Just for discussion's sake, what does the amount of lbs you bench have to do with anything, isn't it a major tenet of your religion that when you are struck to turn the other cheek ? Or that you should love even those that are your enemies. By that reasoning, whether you're physically imposing holds no bearing on whether i disagree with you or not.

The problem i have with strict adherence to the bible and that i can't reconcile is that it is ambiguous and contradictory. People have used the bible (and other dogmas) to justify anything they want. From slavery, to genocide, to just plain being mean to the grieving families of dead soldiers.

And to add to Fau's point (my name is Kate BTW...not "Your Fiance") I have no problem with your set of beliefs, knock yourself out.  I just think it's very hypocritical that you are getting bent that my ideas are different and offensive then yours and I am sure that you never stopped to consider that throwing Jesus or Christianity into every argument may in fact, be offensive to myself and others.

It sucks that i come on here to hear interesting discussion and it turns into a Holy war.   If I wanted to be preached to, I would go to church.

I think it's nuts for adults to believe that they have to warn their children of the dangers of magic.

If that makes me ripe for an ass-whippin' from someone stronger than me, so be it.

QFT

I find it hilarious that Christians feel the need to warn their children of "magic", but have no problems LYING to them about a fat guy that magically enters the house to hand out gifts. Furthermore, his deer fly. Using what? Magic.

The entire thing is absurd.

How do christians explain life and the earth's creation? Magic. Except that they've changed it over to "God". He said let there be light, and there was.  Sounds like magic to me.

Geesh. Now I need a drink.

Excuse me for the rant,and I know part f this should be in the other religion thread,but I think it all applies here...Please no one take this as a personal attack...(I'm just a dumb redneck)

I'm torn on I understand how CF is trying to raise his family,and respect his wishes to raise his children on his beliefs of the bible...And the way today's society is....

I'm not trying,to attack you CF...I want to ask, I know you have daughters, most little girls like to fantasize about growing up to be little princesses,and like to play fairy princess.What about the tooth fairy? What about the wizard of oz? Rudolph the red nose reindeer? Finding Nemo? I mean they know reindeer,Fish can't talk....How do you handle those type of things?

I was raised by a strict catholic,went to a catholic school for a few years..Where we prayed to St. Anthony when we lost something...My mom would tell me to pray to St. Peter,or St. Christopher....for different things..
So my world is totally different, when it comes to thoughts of magic,and such....



I'm sorry to say this doesn't hold alot of weight...I had a friend who was an minister,that was recognizable by the state,"The loyal order of Metallica wearing T-shirts"

Also Right now we have 4 clients, that are Ordained Ministers,all in jail ranging from Embezzlement,to rape charges....

This should have been in the other religious thread....But I'm gonna say it anyways....

I don't think being an atheist makes you a bad person,and being a Christian makes you a good person....Each case has to be weighed by their own merits,It's one thing to say you believe this and you're against that...It's another to actually live it..

Trust me Fau ... if that is all that I did wrong I would be in great shape. I'm far from being Jesus.  I don't think my anger was intentended for you as much as you were the one I actually quoted.  Please accept my apology.


OK I can understand that. I can't say I don't half agree with you but I do see both sides as my viewpoint lies somewhere in the middle.  10 years ago I might have laughed too. I certainly have picked on Bible thumpers in my day. I was frustrated by the mocking of me. Nothing more. It has nothing to do with your beliefs. The comments of "Kate" mean little to nothing to me as I have never met her... and don't really care to. I'm sure the feeling is mutual.  The mocking from people I have met and hung out with does not sit well with me.  At the very least, I expect a certain amount of respect as I'm sure I have proved not to be a fuitcake.  Somehow I don't think pissing in my face would have happpend had it not been behind a computer screen. You did it and then a few others piled on.  I didn't appreciate that as it was very disrepectful.


These are stupid comments meant to do nothing but flame.


Wrong again. 
The same Christians who do not watch Harry Potter or things of that nature do NOT teach Santa Claus for that very reason.  I know many, many, Christians who do not use Santa Claus in celebration of Christmas.

It's not a matter of respect.

When people make claims about completely mythical concepts, like witches and magic, I'm to going to attack them with the same scrutiny I would someone who made claims about Bigfoot or Astrology.

It's all hocus-pocus bullshit, disrespect or not.


As far as this "to your face" vs "behind a computer screen" thing, what can I say.  More than 99% or our conversation has come through computers, as I've only met you a handful of times, all around Dolphins games.  Magic just never came up.  It's not like I go through life, discussing religion, magic, and bigfoot with everyone I come across.  Surely you can understand that.

That's not to say that I don't ever discuss these things in public.  I do.  We're not cavemen, where I have to worry about getting beaten down for telling someone when they've got a screw loose.  Plus, I know my limits.  I don't seek out this kind of stuff.

But, be real, CF -- your beliefs are out there.  Be prepared to be scrutinized, not just by me, but by the world around you.  There's nothing disrespectful about that.

We celebrated with Santa Claus, the tooth fairy and even go out for Halloween. I really hated for my kids to lose that fantasy world so we participated.  I have no problem with make-believe but at the same time I do my best to help them see things from God's perspective ... age appropriate. Playing Cinderella and the bad witch is OK but following Sylvia Browne or when Grandma wants you to keep these crystals because her spirit guide told her it was for good luck I will stand firm.  Yes ... grandma has a spirit guide. 

It's my job to help my kids have a relationship with Jesus and not just learn the dos and don'ts. If this is accomplished and they will see the world's standards for what it is, and then everything else will be fine.  The laws of the bible have never saved one person but has chased many, many, people from the church. I am careful not to be legalistic but I'm sure I make misstakes.

There are many things in this world that people put priorities or worth on that I hope to show them is meaningless and in many cicumstances, dangerous.  Having an imagination is not one of them.

Crystals and sprit guides = bullshit.

Sylvia Brown = fraud, preying on the weak and should be in jail.

An awful lot of people follow her, John Edwards and Oprah.

thank you for answering that....I live in an area,that belives alot of the same things you do...

My own personal beliefs,fall more in line of Daves' views...So I don't mean to be disrespectful at all...

To bring this back on topic in away...
To me this is alot like removing great literature from libraries,and in schools...It should not be banned,removed...for good parents,it should be a teaching tool...

John Edwards is just as bad.  I hate those people.  It's one thing if you're nuts and you actually think you're a psychic, but I think that both Edwards and Brown are giving cold-readings, manipulating people, knowing full-well that they're scam artists.

Oprah, I don't take issue with, as much.  She endorses some true dipshits on occasion, but I think that she's just getting duped herself.  I don't think she has ill-intentions.

CF - wrong approach here, pal.  You can't have an open forum of discussion and not expect people to voice their opinions.  We have wide differences here in regards to religion.  People might not be a "dick" to you in real life -- when have you sat around with any of them and discussed Jesus?  I'm sure the discussion never gets to that point.  I can "bench" my body weight for well over 20 reps, I am a member of the 500lb squat club and I hold a black belt in over six different forms of martial arts.  I'm strong and I have an inkling how to fight - I would never expect someone to not be who they are on line because someday when they meet me I'll greet them with a flying roundhouse kick.

In short - it's way too easy for someone of faith to feel that people are pushing their buttons on purpose.  Because you DO know these people face to face is why you should give them the benefit of the doubt on line.  Dig?

Oprah is just one example of what Christians see as a danger to faith.  I don't think she has ill intentions either, as most people who aren't Christians don't, but she is a little dangerous because of her following and influence ... which I think we can agree is huge.  It's not her show, it's her theology.  She sells herself as Christian but is far removed from it and that is what is dangerous for people who are following her. She really falls into new-aged. Just because a person or something is deemed dangerous by Christians does not mean they are a threat to society in the worldly sense.  This is just one example.

OPRAH WINFREY "Well, I am a Christian who believes that there are certainly many more paths to God other than Christianity." By the vary nature of this statement you can't be a Christian as one of the doctrinal issues spoken by Jesus is "I am Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me. There is no room for interpretation on this for a Christian. She may not mean to but by this statement alone she can lead many innocent people down the wrong path. It doesn't make her a bad person by the world's standards but she is obviously a threat to Christian beliefs.  Does that make sense?

There is a Christian song (several years old) that says "When will people turn to Jesus, and stop asking Oprah what to do?"  Sorry . but it popped in my head while I was writing this.

You got the sad part right. Why do you feel the need to put up you "bench"numbers. Is this how you judge your life? Does this make you better than others? It is pathetic.
Also you have an amazing holier than thou atitude for such a caring christian. You have ruthlessly attacked other members of this board over their religious beliefs, so much that some of your fellow supporters have called you out on it. You get extremely defensive as soon as anything remotely about christian faith comes up and then you go to attack mode. It comes across as rather hypocritical more often than not.
I have yet to see anyone call you a fool for your beliefs, but you have intoned this message at myself and others because we do not have the same hard line belief you do.

I felt the attacks were personal more than beliefs. I hadn't even posted my beliefs .. just beliefs. Did I respond immaturely? Yes I did. It isn't the first time I didn't think rationally before posting nor am I the only one who has done it.


I will just be quiet as your posts speak for themselves.  Thanks for caring!  ;)

Ok, as a a nazi mod..the topic seems to slipped into something off topic...and gotten a little too personal ....