The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Favre is a great QB but is no longer the superstar he used to be. Penny still has plenty left in him and has brought great leadership to this team and hopefully mentored Henne and deer_in_headlights as well.

We definitely got the better deal and didn't cost much $$ or any draft picks! Would be hilarious if the Jets tried to offer picks to get Penny back, but I don't think I want him to go just yet ...

Favre is not a good qb and the trade for him (and pretty much all the Jets offseason moves) reeked of desperation from the coaching staff.

I think you are completely missing the point.

The Jets needed to sell a bunch of PSLs in a very competitive market. They needed to generate a lot of excitement at the beginning of the season to get their fan base to spend a LOT of money on those licenses.

Ok, they did a good job of duping their idiotic fan base.  They did a very poor job of making sure the team will be competitive in upcoming years.

Well I didn't think about it from a business standpoint (stupid me, NFL = National Finance League), so I definitely see the marketing scam there. You are certainly correct that they hosed there future in exchange for a win now attitude ... man, we've definitely been through that before!

I'm glad that Parcells, Ireland, and Sparano didn't think we were only one key player away  ;D

Favre's contract isn't bad and unless they make the playoffs, they only have to give the Packers a 3rd rounder.

While not quite a sideways move, I don't think their future took all that much of a hit in the Favre deal.

It caused them to release Pennington.  Which made the Dolphins better this year and in the future, and the Jets worse next year.  They don't make that trade and they are definitely in the playoffs with Pennington as the dolphins would probably be around 6 wins with mccown/beck/henne.

I think you are on the money. McCown would have started the season and played poorly like the subaverage journeyman he is. Henne would have assumed the starter role by about game 6 or 7, and likely struggled thrown into the NFL game til he got his footing. John Beck would still be holding a clipboard. Without Pennington, maybe the team is 5 and 10, instead of the reverse?

I agree, Chad P was likely worth 4 or 5 wins all by himself.

Pennington ... 2nd best season by a QB in Dolphin history?


Completion %: 67% (2nd to Kosar's 68.5% in 1995)

Yards: 3453 (Only Marino threw for more yards in a season (12x))

Int %: 1.57% (2nd to Cleo Lemon's 1.47% in 2006)

Rating: 96.4 (3rd, Strock 106.5 in '83, Marino 105.3 in '84)

I'm sure they're OK with it. It's not like the Jets are in last place. I give CP credit and he's done a great job protecting the ball, but my God, this is a team effort that goes up the coaching ranks headed by Parcells.

It is way up there, especially with the receivers he has.  Lemon and Kosar weren't full seasons, so I would put him at number 1 in those.

And it is amazing that some people are still like "OMG when is Henne going to get his shot!!"

It's kind of deceptive to look at it that way.

Since NYJ has only played 1 game against MIA (which they won), MIA's record is functionally irrelevant; with respect to MIA, the Jets' record could not be any better than it is now, no matter how bad the Dolphins were.

The real question you need to ask yourself is, would the Jets have won more games on their schedule with Pennington at the helm instead of Favre?

I think it evens out; the thing I've said about Favre since NYJ got him is that he will win games for you and he will lose games for you.  Pennington is a more conservative choice, but not necessarily a better one.

A direct quote from my friend Mark The Jets Fan:

"Pennington will get you guys into the playoffs, but he won't get you far."

If the Dolphins had one more win right now, Miami's record would be hugely relevant to NYJ because they wouldn't be able to make the playoffs.  Yes, the Jets would have won more games this year with Pennington instead of Favre.  And that comment about favre winning games and losing games is stupid.  Which game has Favre won for the Jets this year? 

What are you talking about with this "if MIA had one more win" stuff?  The Jets would not have a better record no matter who the QB for MIA was because they've already beaten MIA in the only game the two have played!  If MIA beats NYJ on Sunday, then you have an argument, but if NYJ sweeps MIA in the season set, then it doesn't matter who they gave us; they beat us both games, which is the best possible outcome for them (versus us).

As for which games Favre won: when was the last time that the Chad Pennington-led Jets scored 56 points in a game?

lol, common sense is pretty tough.  Here i will try to dumb it down for you. Miami and NYJ are in the same division.  If miami has 11 wins already and NYJ only have 9, then the jets can't win the division and will miss the playoffs. If miami doesn't have a good team, then they couldn't take the playoff spot from them.

Good one champ.  Pick the game where the defense has 4 recovered fumbles and 3 interceptions, 1 returned for a td.  John Beck could have won that game for the Jets.     

Apparently you're the one that needs it dumbed down.

Suppose NYJ traded Pennington to CHI, instead of releasing him for MIA to pick up.  MIA then goes 4-11 (or something similar) through week 16, and is completely out of the playoff picture.  What is the result?

- NYJ still beats MIA in week 1, so no change here (maybe a change to Sunday's outcome)
- NYJ still loses all those other games and is still 9-6
- NE is still 10-5 (actually, probably 11-4 because they likely beat MIA twice*)
- BAL is still 10-5 (they still beat MIA) and has locked NYJ out of the wild card

So in your fantasy world, not giving Pennington to MIA has radically changed the scenario from:

NYJ needs a win against MIA in week 17, plus a NE loss against BUF

to

NYJ needs a win against MIA in week 17, plus a NE loss against BUF!

OH MY GOD WHAT A DIFFERENCE

Here is something that you seem to have a hard time grasping: regardless of MIA's record, the Jets are still behind New England.  Taking Pennington away from MIA, at worst, only replaces MIA-as-division-champ with NE-as-division-champ.


*the real irony here is that if NYJ does beat MIA and NE loses to BUF, NYJ actually helped themselves by letting Pennington go to MIA, since a Pennington-less Dolphins probably would have lost twice to NE, which would mean that the division would already be clinched for the Patriots.  Not only is your argument wrong, it's the opposite of reality.

Results oriented thinking for the win. 

I can only laugh that finally people are starting to see that Favre has been overrated the entire year.

Take away that fluke 6 touchdown/1 int game and favre has thrown 15 TD's against 18 interceptions... The jets are falling apart at the seems and their "pro bowler" has thrown 1 td and 6 ints in his last 4 games.

In the games that the Jets have won it has been their running game that has made the difference. Favre hasnt really done anything of note except create a lot of noise which attracts attention.

  It's a lot farther than Brett Favre will be taking the Jets. 

the real issue here is that the jets chose to go in the "fools gold" approach into trying to build a contender. that is, dump a whole bunch of money at overpriced, over-the-hill free agents, instead of trying to develop the young talent as a nucleus of the team.

it just doesn't work, and sets the organization back even further than if you were to turn over the reigns to your young players and let them grow.

brett favre is the same favre he has been over the last few years, and is getting worse by the quarter. green bay was wanting to run him out of town before last year because he was terrible.

I'm no Favre lover but the Jets went from 4-12 last season to 9 or 10 wins and contending for the division this season.  Looks like the running game improved more than the passing game.  Are the safeties playing back more this year due to Favre's better arm?


Thomas Jones/Leon Washington 2008 (14 games)
263 1222 13 59 4.6
063 0374 05 61 5.9

Favre 2008 (14 games)
305 451 67.6 3052 21  17  86.5


Thomas Jones/Leon Washington 2007
310 1119 1 36 3.6 
071 0353 3 49 5.0

Pennington/Clemens 2007
179 260 68.8 1765 10  9  86.1
130 250 52.0 1529 05 10  60.9

They signed Alan Faneca and Damien Woody this offseason.

My guess would be a resounding YES, RTW.

They will be after next week's game.  >:D

And had two young stud O-linemen (Ferguson, Mangold) who were just coming into their third season. If their running attack WASN'T better this season, I'd have been shocked.

Ultimately, the Favre/Pennington swap was a winner for all teams involved.

Green Bay got rid of the headache and moved on to their future franchise QB.
NYJ got a high-profile face to put butts in the seats.
Miami got a veteran to manage the game.

^^^

And on that note, end of discussion.