The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Here in Denver, the cops are lousy.

Yesterday, this guy was attacked downtown by two thugs. They were trying to rob him. By the way, this wasn't just any guy that they attacked...this guy happened to be a former Golden Gloves champion.

Well, he beat the crap out of them and guess what?

The city of Denver is charging HIM with assault! The booked him into the county jail. Lucklily, a friend bailed him out.

Now he has a high profile lawyer that's going to represent him for free because he says that the man was fighting in self defense.

Do you guys or gals believe that he should have been arrested and charged?

I would sue the pants off the city and make sure the cops who arrested him are shoveling horse shit for the rest of their life and handing their hard earned green over to him.

Noe one should be charged for assault in a clear case of self defense.

IF it was self defense, then no there shouldn't be any charge. However, I would like to read about what happened. Perhaps there are some other circumstances that we're not aware of?

Assuming there aren't any relevant details missing from the readers digest version above, this seems to be an obvious case of self defense. If I'm mayor of that city, I not only make sure the charges are dropped, but I applaud the guy loudly and publicly.

If things are the way you described it, then there should be no charges.

This reminds me of the Bernie Goetz case from 1984.  For those of you that don't know, Bernie (along with many other people) were fed up with crime in NYC.  He went to the Subway with an illegal firearm.  When 4 guys tried to mug him, he killed all of them.  He was eventually acquitted, but the general consensus was that he went into the Subway with an intent to kill, and used the mugging attempt as an excuse for vigilantism. 

The Watchmen Blu-Ray has an interesting documentary on it.

Maybe the charges are because he kept beating them after there was no longer a clear threat anymore, which as a highly trained fighter he should have been able to recognize

Can we get a link,otherwise this thread is VERY short on facts,and alot of hear say.....

There is a thin line between Self defense,and Assault....(I'm sorry Maine ) but I'm going to use Maine as an example....

Maine's walking to his car after work,two guy's approach him,with knives.(Maine would probably not take this approach,but go with me here :D ) Maine,Scuffels with one of the men,Maine breaks one of the assailants legs...The other guy seeing Maine do this Runs off....It's self defense...Now with one man left,disabled on the ground...Now of Maine Walks over to the guy on the ground,and starts stomping on his head in angry...It's assault....Maine's life was no longer in danger.....And they every right to charge him with assault....

On a semi hijack side note...Back in the early 90's when I was boxing,I had to go register with the police...I'm not sure of the local laws there,but I'm betting being a former boxer has something to do with it....Since the boxing community here,is null and void...I'm not even sure the law applies.....

The last bar I worked security for had several members of its staff who were both amateur and profession MMA fighters, and the rest of the crew worked out with them to pick up a few things.
The fighters knew by state law they had the right to defend themselves, but it was a very fine lne, as they were expected to know when the threat had reasonably ceased.

While I agree with all of you, I will add a little bit to what Lil B and BSmooth alluded to ...

In some (if not most) states, you can only use self defense to the point where you no longer are in danger.  After a certain point, it is considered assault.  Likewise, in some states, you can defend, even kill a person that is threatening your life while in your own house (creatively nicknamed the "my castle rule").  HOWEVER, in some states, believe it or not, you have a duty to flee your own house.  You can only use self defense if fleeing is not possible!

Lee, Florida doesn't recognize a duty to flee, right?

B hit it on the head.

You are able to protect yourself within the same outlines of the force you are being attacked with.  At the end of the day if the guys that attacked you look worse than you do...well...that is assault.

Which is why everyone should simply carry pepper spray!  :)

I realized the other day that if attacked while running, I have nothing to protect myself with. I'm investing in pepper spray. Are they all the same or is there one that is better than others?

No

Good thing I am pretty ugly then. It gives me more room to work with.

Correct, Florida is not one of those wussy states, believe it or not ;-)

Just make sure you have a permit for your firearms and get to work cleaning up the neighborhood.

You don't need a permit for guns in Florida either (unless you want a concealed carry permit).

The bad guys aren't going to fall into the trap of f-ing with you if they know you're armed. Concealed is the only way to go.

So rather then have them leave you alone because they see you have a weapon, you would rather hide the weapon so you have an excuse to shoot someone?

I thought it would have been clear from the rest of my posts in this thread that my advocacy of using the "no requirement to flee" loop hole to advance vigilante justice was not serious.

The duty-to-flee states are mostly up in the northeast, right?

I was kinda hoping it was.  Someone tries to break into my house, he's gonna be pumped full of lead.  But I won't kill him.  I'll make him wish he was dead.

You should go past subjunctive on his ass.

Tommy, you never shoot to maim. You gotta put at least two into the chest.

Follow up question for Lee and the other lawyers: In FL, can you shoot an intruder in your home in the back?

Over/under on the percentage of people who read this post and understood "past subjunctive" without looking it up?

10%-ish is my guess. ;)

I'll take the under on that.

Always follow a chest shot with one to the head.

I beleive shooting in the back is probably a no-no everywhere.

Head shots require a degree of competence that I wasn't willing to assume Tommy had.

I'm not sure about shooting in the back. I think it might be OK in some states if the target is an intruder in your home.

with all due respect , Dave............ none of the guys were killed. 3 were  injured , one was paralyzed.  also, he wasn't aquitted, he was  convicted for carrying an illegal firearm. released after completing 2/3 of a one year sentence.

Buddha get one of these pepper blasters. I shot a couple at the IACP a few weeks back and they are pretty sweet. It sticks to what ever it hits.  They're around $50-$60, but I always say you get what you pay for with self defense weapons.


http://www.pepperblaster.com/

That usually takes a self defense claim into the manslaughter/murder range. As far as the back thing, a guy in Texas was recently acquitted for shooting two men in the back on his neighbors property and killing them. If your only shot is one in the back, it may be iffy.

That would probably kill someone instantly if not make them a vegetable.  I'd put one in each kneecap.  Let the scumbag crawl out of my house.

I admit it, I was confused

No.  You wouldn't.

You would do what 99.9999999% of people do that wake up and find four people (who are armed, by the way) are in your house.  You would tell them to take whatever the hell they wanted and get out.  You might cry a little.  You'll call 911 as soon as they leave.

Why?

1 - The reality that you most likely don't have a firearm in your home.
2 - If you do have a fire arm in your home you don't keep it under your pillow.
3 - If you do have a fire arm in your home and it's under your pillow...you don't keep it loaded.
4 - The reaction time it would take for you to realize what is going on, reach under your pillow, take out your Dirty Harry special, take the safety off and then still be "clear" enough to make an accurate shot at a moving object...?

Would not happen.

I have a lot of combat training.  I have quite a bit of firepower in my house.  And they are all safely locked away - unloaded - in a safe.  If I woke up to someone in my house MY first thought isn't "get my gun" - it is "get my daughter."  I can get Abby out of the house before the people breaking in would even know we are there.  Same route / drill as if the home were on fire.

You would wake up, shit yourself, cry and then call 911 once you figured out how to untie yourself from the chair that they ducked taped you to.  And I think you know that.

Tommy is Chuck Norris. Didn't you know?

OK.  Guess one of us might've gotten their signals crossed.  Four armed people is one thing.  One burglar, armed or unarmed, I can take. 

And yes, I do keep guns in my place, loaded, but locked up.

I can understand locking a gun away with children around, but I don't have a child safe house. Between the dog barking at the slightest noise and me keeping my loaded gun as close to my head as possible (without it actually being under the pillow), I think I have a pretty good shot at taking down an intruder.

Note to self:  If you ever go to Phishfan's house, call first.  :D

You just wouldn't get to them on time.  You really wouldn't.  The stat line for this is overwhelming.  By the time you even know someone is in your home they are on you.

I have a beagle that flips out if someone even comes into the yard.  God knows that every time a freakin' wild turkey struts across the yard in the moon light she wakes up the house!  So if someone broke in I would know.  And the only thing I would care about is getting Abby and Mrs. Maine out of harm's way.

I wish I could sit here and beat my chest and say "bring 'em on!"  The fact of the matter is that my family's safety means more to me than finding out if I am more man than the people breaking into my home.

Now...that said...you can be sure that once Mrs. Maine and Abby are safely away the chances of said intruders getting away are slim to none.  In the dark and outside on my property?  I like my chances of making sure most (if not all) wind up in the back of a squad car.

So someone who does not have extensive training with weapons and tactics, is awaken out of a dead sleep, is going to instantly realize what is happening, quickly and quietly move to unlock their weapons, and then get the drop on an intruder without them knowing, and laying down accurate fire in darkness or low light scenarios they have never trained in?
Sorry I doubt that it happens quickly, quietly, or effectively.
I have been in situations where I was asleep and was awoken by another person by shaking me, to hear sounds of alarm, and the only thing that allowed me to function quickly was the muscle memory of over a decade of military training until my brain was fully awake and I could comprehend what was going on.

You guys do realize that break ins do not always happen while you are asleep? In any scenario I don't feel a locked gun is good to count on for defense though.

The majority of break ins happen in unoccupied homes as these tend to be non violent offenders. The worrysome trend over the last 20 years is the number of desperate drug addicts and the home invasions gangs that do not look for unoccupied homes, hit hard and fast, and are prone to violence.
In these scenarios, you have very little time to do anything but try and escape with your family or survive. Maybe you can get to a gun and stop them all, but of you do not, they are going to probably take out a serious payback on your family.
I have no children, and in order to get to my room you have to make it through a narrow and long kill box

I have a gun fully loaded and ready to go right in my nightstand easily accessed in 5 secs. It has a bring white tac light on it and night sights. But if anything ever goes bump in the night I'm not grabbing my gun and searching the house, I'm grabbing my girlfriend, cell phone, and my gun going into the closet and calling the police. I practice enough with my firearm that I feel I'm very proficient and I know the layout of my house better than anyone breaking in, but I would rather replace stolen items than have the picture of shooting someone in my home and a giant blood stain on my carpet for the rest of my life. Now don't get me wrong if they enter that area leading to my closet and I identify them as a threat then I'll gladly fire two shots reassess and then go from there.

That is a much more realistic and sane approach than some of the others bandied about here.

That's the whole idea behind self defense.  Someone is breaking into your house and you feel your life and/or your loved one's lives are in danger, you spit lead first and sort everything out later.   I might do what you do, and leave my gun unlocked at night...... except when Lil Tommy stays with me.

I agree...you should keep one in your hand and ready for action at all times. Not only does this take care of the burglary concerns, but ding-dong-ditchers, beware!!


A little hypnosis, a little Stanley Steemer, and life goes on. Not for the burglar, obviously, but that's what Mr Blood Stain on the Carpet gets for wanting to pilfer your fukkin' Playstation.

This is where being a redneck pays off. They do make beds that have a location in the headboard for your guns!! Some people can reach their guns without even opening their eyes!!  ;D

Thank you!  That is what makes me laugh about this.  I remember one night in the desert before the air war started.  I was sleeping after a 24 hour shift and people flew into the tent yelling "lock and load" - we had intel about a pocket close by.  It took me what seemed like forever to even know where the hell I was much less "lock and load."  And I was in a combat situation.

I am the lightest sleeper ever. I wake up at least once an hour and sometimes more. I'm so sensitive to surroundings that if the security light in my backyard turns on it wakes me up!  I tend to think it's because i grew up in a very rough environment ... both inside and outside of the house.   My wife sleeeps thru everything including her alarm. I am very jealous of this.