The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

It's weird that Dave would start a "Worst Move' thread in the Anti-Fins section, so I decided to do the opposite and start a thread here.

What was the greatest Franchise move in Dolphins History? Was it the drafting of Dan Marino? The Hiring of Don Shula? The hiring of Bill Parcells? The signing of Earl Morral as back-up QB in 1972? Some other move?

I think the drafting of Dan Marino - while it didn't lead to any Super Bowl wins and I am the biggest proponent of that argument of all - is the best move in Dolphins history. There were other QBs ranked higher and taken higher in the draft, so it was a "steal" to take Marino, because the Dolphins could have easily wound up with some other bum as QB. Instead they got 5,000+ yards in 1984 and 60,000 yards and a ton of other hall-of-fame numbers. Clearly the single-best Dolphin of all-time, and a great job in scouting by whomever convinced Don Shula to draft him.

I am gonna go with Shula.  Problem with calling drafting Marino the best move is the Dolphins never won the superbowl after drafting Marino.  For a team with multiple superbowl wins hard to call the best move something that didn't win the SB over things that did result in winning. 

Hmm.  Tough call.

Bringing Shula in is my choice.

But there's an argument to saying that it was Marino.  While he never won a Super Bowl, he did make Miami a football town and was the one player that the entire community rallied behind for decades. 

Fairly obvious the answer is bringing in Shula. 

If you want to make this thread more interesting take away the Shula and Marino answers as an option. 

My aqua and orange world is spinning off its axis here with the role reversal...

Only because I think the answer to this question will be more apparent a couple of years from now, I'll say that hiring Parcells to oversee the football operations and to build this franchise back up from its lowest point is the best move made by the franchise. If we had brought in another bum GM/front office team instead of the Irish Tuna Coalition, we may have been looking at a number of 1-15 to 3-13 type seasons, and we could have easily become the new Detroit Lions (read: league laughingstock).

Can you imagine going through a 5-6 year period where you never win more than 3 games in a season? If you can, then once you finish throwing up, I think this choice is a no-brainer.

Far too early to make that claim...it is based on the same speculation that already has Mark Sanchez and Rex Ryan inducted in the HOF.  Parcells might bring the Dolphins to the promise land but he didn't get either the Jets or Cowboys to the superbowl and NE lost in the SB.  Best decision must be based on proven results -- that is Schula. 

Sort of an insanely stretched comparison...

What I am "actually comparing" is where Miami would have been without Parcells & Company (see doomsday scenario about multiple 1-15 seasons above) and where we are now, which is a team on the rise with a concrete plan for success.

Thus, my choice...

I see Stroke's point, though.  Even if Parcells doesn't bring a Super Bowl to Miami, he's keeping them competitive and relevant to the city.  It's the Marino argument.  He never won it all, but we were on the map for 2 straight decades.  That does a lot to sell tickets, build a fanbase, and create a team legacy.

I wasn't alive then, but history tells me it was Don Shula.  Had Marino won a Super Bowl or 2 I may have leaned that way.

Bringing Shula in. Other than keeping Olivadotti for years on end, the man was awesome.

Shula and Marino are obvious choices, so I'm going to say the drafting of Larry Csonka out of Syracuse.

Without question.  Dan Marino , late round pick that nobody wanted.  Its not Dan's fault that Miami couldn't make a first round pick that counted after that.

I see Stroke's point here also, and it's one that I feel is reasonable and might be my choice, too.  Like he said, it would pretty much be a doomsday scenario for me as a *young* Dolphins fan to imagine my boys going through multiple 3-5 win seasons as the Raiders have since 2003 and the Lions have since--when, freakin' 1996?!?  :D I don't know, like ethurst says, maybe we are just spoiled as Dolphins fans because, despite the *lack* of SB championships, we honestly haven't had many bad seasons even over 44 years (please-please-please-please-please don't jinx your 'Phins!), but that doesn't mean that I want to find out what that's like, either!

So, I'm looking at the selection of Parcells as VP of football operations or whatever his title is as a choice, but I think I want to give it another season or two and see how it turns out (and like I believe Stroke was implying, that doesn't necessarily mean we have to win a SB to validate Parcells selection).  For right now, I'd say the selection of Shula.  Get 'em, "Chin"!

How about a 4-year period where we have the following record:

3-11,  4-10,  5-8-1, 3-10-1

Because those are the records that the Dolphins had before Shula came to town.

He immediately followed those 4 seasons with records of 10-5, 12-4-1, 17-0, and 15-2.  Oh, and he also brought the only two NFL championships that Miami has ever had.

If you think that Parcells' hiring was a better move than Shula's hiring, then you fail to grasp exactly how important Shula's hiring was.  It is entirely possible that Miami wouldn't even have a football team anymore if Shula hadn't been hired.

A few thoughts/corrections, Spidey...

* I said hiring Parcells avoided "a period of 1 to 3 win seasons that would have made us the league laughingstock" and you countered with a period of 3-5 win seasons in which Miami's reputation in the league, while diminished, was nowhere near "laughingstock" status. Shula helped us out of a depression...Parcells prevented armageddon.

* Comparing coaches/GM's/front office types from different eras is about as productive as comparing players from different eras...

* Shula would have been my close second choice...

Or, to put it another way, Parcells avoided a hypothetical "period of 1-3 win seasons" whereas Shula turned around an actual period of 3-5 win seasons.  You are taking it as fact that Cameron and co. could not have improved beyond their first year; if we are going to extrapolate every coach's future by what they do in their first year on the job, guys like Bill Walsh (2-14) or Chuck Noll (1-13) should have been fired on the spot.

And why is it that you can't compare coaches from different eras?  I mean, when you are comparing players, things like rule changes that favor passing make it hard to compare quarterbacks or receivers from different eras... but what rule change is there that radically transforms understanding and applying the strategy of the game?

I'm not saying that Parcells wasn't a good hire.  But he "saved" us from a hypothetical armageddon (that may or may not have happened) where "saved" (so far) means "one first-round home playoff loss and one late-season total collapse."  Shula saved MIA from an actual string of pathetic seasons, and he had us in the Super Bowl by his second year and with two rings at the end of his fourth.  Even if we win the Super Bowl the next two years in a row (and we go undefeated one of those two times!), Parcells wouldn't even be matching what Shula did.

I think you're underestimating two elements here...

1) The likelihood of that franchise armageddon. (I had it as a lock, prior to Parcells' arrival)
2) The difference between a franchise having a stretch of poor seasons and a team that gets "league laughingstock" branded on its forehead.

We are talking about opinion though...so thanks for yours.

Hands down, Don Shula. Before Shula, pro sports was failing in this region. Miami wasn't even considered a sports town.

In 1970, The ABA Miami Floridians folded and UM was thinking about getting rid of its football program. There were no other teams, except the Miami Toros soccer team and they had poor attendance.

Howard Schnellenberger was the Dolphins offensive coordinator during those Super Bowl years. He took the same offense and installed it at UM and the Hurricanes started their ascension into a football power. A lot of people don't know this but Shula would invite the UM coaches to Biscanye College for strategy meetings and that included Schnellenbergers staff, Jimmy Johnson and his staff. Wannstedt even did an internship one summer with Shula.

Shula made sports relevant in South Florida and showed that pro sports COULD work in this region. Eventually, we would have got other franchises but Shula was definitely an impact on that.

My only complaint about Shula was that in the biggest games, he didn't make enough adjustments (Sea of Hands, Epic In Miami (should have went with Strock after San Diego went up 14-0).

I remember when Dolphin management fired George Wilson who I thought was a very good coach (he basically drafted a large percentage of guys that brought Miami into prominence once Shula got here in 1970) but Shula was the man that made it all go.

There is no way that Bill Parcells can match what Don Shula did for Miami.

The argument against Don Shula being the greatest move in franchise history is that it was not a difficult decision or a wild-chance on a no-name guy who turned out to be a legend.

Don Shula was already a high-profile coach, taking the Colts to the Super Bowl twice in three years. Upgrading from George Wilson to Don Shula was a no brain-er, especially after he went to 3 Super Bowls in a row in his first 3 seasons as a Dolphins coach.

Someone like Bill Parcells was hired into a position that really didn't exist in football. Usually it's head coach >> GM >> Owner. Here, a Football Operations president was thrown in, and it worked. Now guys like Mike Holmgren and others will probably institute a similar structure in their organizations.

I am not even arguing against Shula...not at all. Either one could be a good choice as answer to the question. I just think that the people who are putting the Parcells' signing on a significantly lower level than Shula's might be missing how dire the situation was in Miami when Parcells arrived here.

Jtex,

If your arguement against Shula being a great move is that DS was a proven coach, than that equally applies to bringing in BP.  Its not even like the Dolphins were the first team to offer BP that position, Falcons had offered him the exact same role a week earlier.  Parcels went with the Dolphins because he would rather live in Miami than Atlanta.

This is not MY argument. I considered Dan Marino the greatest move. But lots of folks are asking "how can it NOT be Don Shula" and that's a reason why someone would not consider this a great franchise move.

My first thought was Shula, for the following reasons:

Hiring Shula became a 30-something year solution at head coach, in a league where head coaches seldom last more than 4 or 5 years. 
Shula oversaw an almost uninterrupted 30 year stretch of hall of fame quarterback play (Griese followed after a few years by Marino)
Shula coached the Dolphins to heights they will never again reach (an undefeated season culminating in a Super Bowl win)
Shula was not there for the lowest lows that will hopefully neve again be reached.


I love Dan Marino, but Shula drafted Marino.  If Shula's not there, maybe Miami passes on Marino like 28 other teams did in 1983...

I hope Parcells/Ireland et al turn out to be amazing, but just as I'm not ready to anoint LeBron James the greatest basketball player ever based on 6 years of achievement, I'll wait to see how the "Irish Tuna" gang do before sliding them up into Shula-Marino territory.

I don't think it counts as a "no-brainer" if you're using the results as justification.

Prior to arriving in Miami, Shula's most significant "achievement" was losing in the Super Bowl to a ridiculously lopsided underdog.  The only "championship" he had to his name (from the Colts) was the game that put them into Super Bowl III (what would today be called the NFC Championship, but was the NFL Championship back then).  Furthermore, that was the only year that Shula won any playoff games at all with the Colts; the other two times they made it, they went one-and-out.

Was Shula considered to be good?  Yes, but I'd argue that (at the time) he was more comparable to a Marty Schottenheimer or an Andy Reid of today.  He had yet to win it all and I think there was a not-insignificant amount of choker-stink on him from SBIII.

Obviously he proved otherwise, but you can't use after-the-fact results as an explanation for the hiring.

Parcells is not the Dolphins savior. It doesn't make sense.

For Parcells to even get in the same area code of a guy named Joe Thomas, he needs several outstanding drafts and free agency periods in consecutive fashion.

Don't know who Joe Thomas is? He's the guy that started off with the Dolphins through the expansion and Super Bowl period. Joe Thomas drafted...

Bob Griese, Larry Csonka, Jim Kiick, Mercury Morris, Bill Stanfill, Dick Anderson, Curtis Johnson, Vern Den Herder, Tim Foley, Lloyd Mumphord and Howard Twilley, Mike Kolen, Jim Mandich and Doug Swift.

Then in free agency he got Jim Langer, Norm Evans, Manny Fernandez, Bob Matheson (53 defense), Nick Bounticonti, stole Paul Warfield from the Browns, got Jake Scott from the CFL, Bob Kuechenberg, acquired Larry Little from the Chargers, got Wayne Moore in free agency, obtained Garo Y from the Detroit Lions and the late Wahoo McDaniel.

That is an amazing group of talent. There was still talent on the bench that couldn't make it on the field for the Dolphins.

Wilson got fired because he couldn't take Miami to the next level but this is the same George Wilson who led the Detroit Lions to their LAST NFL Championship in 1957. So as a talent evaluator over an expansion team, Wilson was no slouch.

The only run of talent that I can think of equal to what the Dolphins did was the Bills of the late 80's early 90's, The 49ers from the mid 80's to mid 90's and the Cowboys of the early 90's (through that stupid trade with Minnesota).

The problem under the Uncle Wayne regime was the coach having the GM/Coach title and not having football guys around him. Weidermayer, who did the Cameron hiring, was attached to the franchise for years but was not a personnel guy.

Before Parcells, the Dolphins could have had...

Ron Wolf, the architect of the Packers. Wolf saw the structure and turned them down and he lives right up the street in Palm Beach Gardens.

They could have bought Bobby Beatherd back.

Saban was a bad fit for a veteran team. Cameron was over his head.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what Miami needed when Parcells came in. Denver_bronco could have been the GM.

It'll be year three and I don't see Miami surpassing the Jets or New England. The run the ball and control the clock scenario would have been good for 80's football but not today. Parcells, due to the talent that we have, will not allow Sparano to run a 4-3 to save his life.

Parcells at least needs to match what Joe Thomas did. It was even tougher back then because Thomas had to fight for talent because of two separate leagues and drafts (the Dolphins were in the AFL). The AFL was considered the step-child so the talent he had a part of assembling is amazing.

Making so many excellent points, and then you shoot them all in the foot with this sort of statement...

Bit of grave digging. (Bumped into this thread, looking for something else)

I think we can say with absolute certainty, that Sunstroke's claim that "Parcells > Shula"  was incorrect.   ;D

Hindsight is 20-20... I wish I had the time (or the interest) for digging up old insignificant threads.

Oh wait, no I don't.

File this away under W

^^^ File yourself under P, for "psychotic nut-job with multiple personality disorder."

(http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/pop%20corn/grand/jackson_popcorn_gif.gif)

::) ::) ::)

Maybe you should be filed under P as well for Pussbag.

I'm filing this under "P" for "pretty much no one cares about a thread from 2010"

That's what the "W" is for. Who gives a shit?

P is also for poop.  Because poop is funny.

I love intelligent threads. 

P is also for Pissing Contest which is what is entertaining to see Mike O and EK get into.  A soap opera could be created from all the threads they've gotten locked