The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

To the forty niners for a late round pick according to jay glazer.

I just heard this on Sirius. They said for an undisclosed conditional pick.

Hah....Stroke just can't get away from this guy.

Are the Dolphins retaining Aunt Myrtle Ginn or is the entire Ginn family being traded?  Myrtle has just the kind of nasty disposition that we need on the O Line so I'm kind of hoping that she is staying.  As for Ted, good riddance.  He was the weakest link of the Ginn Family that we drafted.    ;D

I gotta be honest, I was really excited to see what he could do opposite of Marshall.

One cool thing is that he will be opposite of Crabtree, so we will get a little glimpse of what he might have been like opposite of Marshall.

I understand why he isn't well liked overall in Miami, but I would have preferred to see him one more year.  Not to mention that it is hard to get excited about a low round pick even if it is conditionally higher I would doubt that it would go up much

Bad move.  I'll bet this fifth rounder won't even make our roster

There's just never a plastic spork around when a fella needs one to gouge out his eyes...

That said, SF's receiving corps was already very solid with Crabtree, Vernon Davis, Josh Morgan...even the kid I liked from Wazzou, Jason Hill, showed signs of breaking out in the second half of last season. Ginn will be a KR mainly, and a 4th WR target when SF spreads it out. I hope it was only a 7th rounder, because I really don't think he's worth any more than a 7th...if even that.

Even better, just so I don't have to worry about it at all... I hope Ginn gets to camp, runs out of bounds once to avoid a hit in front of Mike Singletary, and gets cut outright. I can deal with the blown 7th (please-please) round pick just for the unintentional comedy it would provide.

I must say, even though he was a disappointment, I'm sad to see him go.

I think that he was very capable on special teams, and was interested to what he could do opposite Brandon Marshall, as mentioned above.

Also, I don't expect him to do much of squat with the Niners, so I can't imagine that we'll get very much in terms of the pick, so it leads me to believe that it was a salary dump.  I wonder if it was worth it.  It seems like you're getting rid of a "potential guy" at his absolute lowest value.

Crap...a 5th rounder? We've been bent over and summarily buttfucked by the Irish Tuna Coalition. Part of me wants to celebrate Miami's good fortune, and part of me wants to take a shower and cry.

it is a 5th rounder

A 5th rounder is nothing.  I'd rather have him.

Congratulations to the Miami Dolphins. What an excellent off-season they are having with Marshall, Dansby, and now dumping Ginn after dumping Porter and not retaining Taylor.

If they can get rid of Ronnie Brown and improve upon Chad Henne, look out.

I'm very impressed, Dolphins.

Sirius was initially saying a conditional pick, which obviously would've been a 2011 pick based on his performance. They now confirmed it was a 5th next week.

Dolphins got the better end of this deal. 

not sure what people see in ginn that they would rather still see him around.

what's parcell's favorite sayings, if they don't bite as puppies... something like that.

folks, ginn is going into his fourth year and as a receiver, has sucked about as bad as anyone could possibly suck. being able to run fast as a receiver in the nfl doesn't amount to a whole lot when you can't, ummm, catch the football.

This is a steal for SF:

They got a decent receiver, (He doesn't suck, no matter how much you guys say he does) and somebody who can make plays in the return game and take over a game.

For what?  a fifth-rounder?

That's a bargain.  What were they going to do with that fifth rounder anyway?

The 49ers apparently didn't learn their lesson about speedsters who can't catch.  Just look how well the Renaldo "Skeets" Nehemiah project worked out for them (for those of you old timers who remember).   Maybe the SF media will nickname him Ted "Little Skeets" Ginn.  Having said all that, I wish Ginn well.  It wasn't his fault that he was drafted WAY higher than he should have been.  He is just never going to be anything more than a mediocre receiver and an above average kick returner.

What were they going to do with that fifth rounder anyway?  Let me remind you of another useless 5th rounder from a few years ago.  A fella by the name of Zach Thomas.  Sure, a lot of 5th rounders don't work out, but there are some diamonds in the rough to be found during the 5th round.  Especially for good talent evaluators like the Dolphins have upstairs.

what about 3rd highest drop percentage in the nfl for 2009 says that the guy doesn't suck at a position where you have to catch the ball?

Dolphster, I'm glad you jumped in with that. I hate when people say X round pick isn't worth anything. They all have the potential to be turned into something.

With what dolphins4life is saying, I'm almost convinced he hasn't seen a game with Ginn playing. Ha.

^^^

I've seen them.  I've seen make plenty of big plays to turn games around.

I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt this fifth rounder is going to amount to much for us.

Maybe we should draft the best return man in the draft with this pick.

^^ Other than the 1 game vs. the Jets on kick returns, let's see some of those "game-breaking" plays. Post some YouTube clips.

"Plenty of big plays"? Dude. I was one of the biggest supporters of Ginn, but even my patience wore thin and I couldn't name "plenty of big plays" he had which turned games around. I can think of exactly two, and both occurred in the same game, in fact, in the same quarter. And those were as a return guy, not as a starting WR.

At the end of the day, the Fins now have a true #1 receiver, who is a million times better than Ginn.

I wish him luck, but I wouldn't say I'm sad to see him go.

Ok, I will give me second

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35fxXOXBrA8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35fxXOXBrA8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyPtJF-IgPc&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyPtJF-IgPc&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6lEl2wOn1A&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6lEl2wOn1A&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5IrxA_FT9c&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5IrxA_FT9c&feature=related)

Do you understand what "game changing" means?  I don't think you do. That first clip was some of his highlights from the Bills game, where he did have a great game, but did any of them change the game?

Go ahead and google Brandon Marshalls highlights, and if you aren't more impressed by those, there is definitely something strong in that pipe you smoke.

i've got a better one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYSxJgjjJFc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYSxJgjjJFc)

^^^

Sure, I'm more impressed by Marshall.

But why give up Ginn for virtually nothing?  

If nothing else, he could have been the return guy.  

That might be what the 49ers have in mind.

Edit:  I'm not saying I was against trading Ginn, I just think they only should have traded him for the right price.  And a fifth round draft pick is too little. 

Just heard an amazing thing on NFL Radio.

128 catches, 5 TD's.

Thats the CAREER numbers for Ginn. CAREER. Not one season, CAREER.

FYI- other than gis rookie year, Marshall has not caught less than 100 balls in a season, and has not had less than 6 TD's in a SEASON.

On a different note, does this mean the R and R show won't be as much in effect in 2010? 

Do I actually have to say this...

Ginn year one - The 1-15 debackle with Cleo Lemon as our best QB nearly all of the year.
Ginn year two - Pennington throws dinks and dunks all year (Ginn is a deep threat player - don't think otherwise)
Ginn year three - Pennington goes down early, but sucked up untill the point he got hurt.  Rookie(ish) Henne comes in and the ground game is heavily relied upon untill Brown gets hurt toward the end of the year.

I honestly believe this was the first year Ginn actually had a legit shot to be what he was supposed to be.  I just can't help but think that a 5th rounder isn't going to make up for the potential we just lost.

Doc-phin Calvin Johnson has had it FAR worse in Detroit, yet he is a great WR. I can't agree with that line of thinking. Great players make plays even on 0-16 teams.

just to toss it out there .. the dolphins got the same for ginn that the steelers got for a superbowl MVP

Doc- Brian and I had been two of the biggest supporters of Ginn. But I'm over that now. I'm sick of making the arguments for him. Call me a fair weather fan of his if you want. He's gone. I'm over it.

I was going to bring this up too!

^^ A FORMER Super Bowl MVP who's suspended for 4 games... ::)  The Jets stole Santonio...

I am with Dave.  I think he had physical tools to be a superstar in the league.  I am sad to see him go.

Here's what Ginn needs to improve:
- 4 hours a day in the gym with a personal trainer
- counseling

Ginn is a deep threat on a running team.  Bad fit.  If nothing else, teams got scared of him in the return game.  Its worth a 5th round pick to have a great kick returner.

I will agree that his first three seasons, he sucked big monkey balls.  But, I think he was poised to improve drastically with the addition of Brandon Marshall, and he was already valued on special teams.

Sadly, I just don't think the 5th rounder will be any more valuable than Ginn was. 

I'm curious about the people that still want to keep him,Please tell me who's roster spot do you think he should take?...

Remember we also have Brandon Marshall...Hartline, Bess, and Camarillo can all contribute,and Patrick Turner may have been a bad pick, but is still probably cheaper than Ginn (I'm pretty sure)...Are you willing to sacrifice and Extra O-lineman? D -lineman? an extra DB?

(Had to come back, my internet connection screwed up sorry)

I'd rather have Ginn than Patrick "can't even get on the field for one play" Turner.

excellent point.  ginn's only fault is that he was pick 9th in the draft by cam "sham" eron.  the man, while apparently a good team player and locker room guy, had too many drop balls and was afraid to get hit.

if the man could find hole or crease on a KO, he was gone, but he lacked the intuition sometimes to find that hole and looked to get OB when he caught the ball (when he did catch it  ;D)

it's a shame it didn't work out, but he's not an elite WR and prob at best a KR/PR man for the rest of his career.

best wishes to him.  he did put it to the J-E-R-K-S though........lol.  rex ryan u suck!

The benefit to Turner (not playing) is he could be a practice squad guy,Ginn isn't worth a roster spot anymore....Cobbs (the rest of the IR's from last year) coming back,and our draft picks,then people still want to bring back J.Taylor.This roster needed to be turned over,needed to get better. I just can't see a roster spot for him,even for his returning kicks.

^^ B, most times you're spot on but this time I couldn't disagree more.

I guess time will tell, he'll be a hot waiver-wire pickup in fantasy football next season.

Have to disagree with ya, B...I think a quality KR is worth a roster spot, whether he provides much production as a WR or not. I'm not happy to see SF trade for Ginn - trust me on this one - but he immediately upgrades our kick return game, so he's worth the spot. If he shows that he can't handle the KR duties, I'll have no use for the guy.


Think I have to disagree with this as well... I believe Ginn will catch less than 20 passes for SF next year, and that just doesn't make for much of a waiver gem in FF.

If we were 10-6,and I could easliy justify keeping him to soley do kick returns,but we were 7-9...and  While not the Game breakers, Davone Bess,and Partick Cobbs can both handle those duties,plus give give me value at other spots (Kick off coverage,Punt Coverage,third down Back, Slot Reciever)

So did the other Miami receivers not have the same circumstances for all three of those years? Or did they have Peyton Manning throwing to them? Sorry but I'm not buying that argument considering other WR's were able to put up better numbers.

Here are the numbers for the other Miami WR's during those same years (I didn't include TE or RB receiving yards)


Ginn- 34 catches, 420 yds, 2 TDs
Booker- 50 catches, 556 yds, 1 TD
Chambers (before being traded)- 31 catches, 415 yds, 0 TDs
Derek Hagan- 29 catches, 373 yds, 2 TDS
Greg Camarillo- 8 catches, 160 yds, 2 TDs

So an old and washed up Booker got more catches and yds. In 6 games, Chambers basically had the same number of catches and yds that Ginn had in 16 games. Derek fricking Hagan had the same number of TD catches. And Camarillo had about 40% as much yds as Ginn, in about 25% as many catches. Imagine if they threw to Camarillo more?


Ginn- 56 catches, 790 yds, 2 TDs
Camarillo- 55 catches, 613 yds, 0 TDs
Davone Bess- 54 catches, 554 yds, 1 TD
Derek Hagan- 3 catches, 51 yds, 0 TDs
Brandon London- 3 catches, 30 yds, 0 TDs
Ernest Wilford- 3 catches, 25 yds, 0 TDS

So Camarillo manages to catch the same number of balls, with about 180 less yards- but in 5 less games. With that same "dink and dunk" offense. Bess (an undrafted rookie) manages the same number of catches, in much more limited playing time.

Ginn- 38 catches, 454 yds, 1 TD
Brian Hartline- 31 catches, 506 yds, 3 TDs
Davone Bess- 76 catches, 758 yds, 2 TDs
Greg Camarillo- 50 catches, 552 yds, 0 TDs

So rookie Hartline had more yards, on less catches, despite less playing time (and being a rookie). Bess gets 2 starts vs. Ginn's 12, but still practically doubles up on Ginns numbers. Camarillo is coming off of a major knee injury, and puts up bigger numbers. And those three guys also had rookie(ish) Henne throwing to them.

Like Dave says in another post- I wish him well, but I'm glad the Fins finally have a true #1 receiver. Imagine what Bess and Hartline will do with a true #1 drawing double coverage.

I know you will say that Ginn plays a "different kind of game", but the other receivers all managed to adapt and play with the QB's they had to play with. (Look at Marshall last year, playing with Kyle Orton, he put up pro-bowl numbers!)

Philly,

I am absolutely saying Ginn plays a different kind of game!  He is a speedy-small bodied receiver that is supposed to be used to stretch the field.  At what point do you feel we had a system in place to utilise his down field attributes?  (Again) Henne, year two, would have easily been the best fit for a receiver like Ginn since we drafted him.

I definitely give credit to Hartline for a great first year with better than expected YAC yards, but look at the yards per catch and it is obvious how the other players were being used. 

Marshall is really more of a YAC receiver than a burner, so why wouldn't he do well with a short game player like Orton?  Not to mention that nobody has any business comparing any of our receivers to Marshall and his ability.

Lastly, I would never look for a speed/deep threat receiver to have as many passes thrown his way as a possession receiver even in an attacking pass first offense.  Therefore, I really couldn't care less about Ginn's number of catches in comparison to the other guys.

Somebody also mentioned Calvin Johnson...  Calvin Johnson is another big bodied receiver in the fashion of Brandon Marshall and not a pure burner type like Ginn.  But more importantly for arguing my point is that he is on a pass first, run second team.  We have been run first oriented for quite a while now.

It's all a moot point now anyway Doc.

He's gone. Not on the team I cheer for anymore. I can stop making excuses for him. I could care less about him now.

I just want to point out, Calvin Johnson is a burner as well as a big bodied wr.  He runs a 4.35 forty.

uh, ted ginn can't catch. as an nfl receiver, he is pretty useless, because he drops a lot of balls. the guys that are slower than him, as receivers, are better because they actually catch the ball.

Ginn's TD against Revis was legitimately game-changing.  I'm convinced that it was Ginn's deep threat that allowed MIA to run the ball down the Jets' throat on the final drive.

Keep in mind that that was Henne's first real deep strike in the NFL.  Before that, they had no reason not to "cheat up" and focus entirely on short-game, just as if Noodles were in.

And I do think that Ginn served an important function that now seems to be missing.  Whether he can catch or not, every team had to at least respect the deep strike.  This is a direct and major benefit to a run-first team; we all remember the "Ricky left, Ricky right, Ricky up the middle" days where teams would have 9 in the box on every play.

He might make a good DB.  He is fast and and is good at getting to the ball and knocking it to the ground.  Attributes better suited for defense than offense. 

I like Ginn, don't think a 5th rounder was enough value -- even if you consider Ginn solely a KR.

However, he got a serious case of the dropsies last year and that's what cost him. Sure, it's never ideal to get a new quarterback, but the level of play from Ginn just wasn't acceptable.

To become a good receiver, Ginn needs to do two things:

1) Catch the ball.
2) Get off the line.

No, taking big hits is not necessary, but being able to take Ginn out of the game complete by jamming him at the line is a problem that needs to be solved for him to be effective. All the speed in the world isn't going to do you any good if you never get more than 5 yards.

Yeah, but two other attributes usually found in good defensive players are "ball skills" and "willingness to make contact with another human being instead of running out of bounds."

Ginn would suck mightily on defense...

Ginn's place in the league is as a full time return man who occasionally plays WR in overload and hail mary formations. Expecting him to excel in any other role going forward would require ignoring everything he's done to this point since coming into the league.

I don't think that Ginn would make a good defensive player.  He doesn't seem to have a nose for the ball or the aggressiveness for the position.

It's a completely different skill-set to play receiver as it does to play DB.

Interestingly, Ted Ginn Jr. was a great defensive player in high school, as per his bio:

"Ginn played for his father, Ted Ginn, Sr., in high school at Glenville High School in Cleveland, Ohio, where he played Defensive back and receiver. Ginn Jr was selected as the 2004 USA Today Defensive Player of the Year, a 2004 Parade All-American, and named the 2004 SuperPrep National Defensive Player of the Year. He also participated in the U.S. Army All-American Bowl as a member of the East team, along with former Dolphins teammates Ryan Baker and Chad Henne,[1] and was named the Most Valuable Player of the game.

Ginn intercepted eight passes as a senior, returning five of them for touchdowns. One of his interception returns went for a state-record 102-yard touchdown, while another went for a 98-yard score."


I'm glad he's gone. It was frustrating in that he showed his potential a few times, but mostly he was a huge disappointment.  Maybe he'll do better in SF, but I doubt we'll look back on this trade with any regrets in the future.

h
He is exactly who I thought of when I heard about the trade. Laughed for a good minute.......so glad to finally put the Cam Cameron era firmly behind us.  >:D

Which team do you like more, Stroke?  The fish or the niners?

Who did you root for when the dolphins played them in Dec of 2008? 

WTF!!!  a  back-up t.e. or extra lineman great trade he has about as much upside as jaon allen (good spec. teams )!!  sleepy @ his family suck donkey dick!!B marshall was a 4th rounder at one time too.

I Would have like to see what he could have done as the second or third receiver behind Marshal. A 5th round pick is the best we can do? Does Ireland jump at the first offer he gets? The 49ers where i serious need of a return guy and all it cost them is a 5. Hey Ireland how about playing hard to get once in awhile.

I can't believe people still feel Ginn was worth more. I'm surprised we had anyone offer anythiong at all. Just another example of how at home GMs tend to overvalue the price of a player in draft picks. If I ran a team I wouldn't give up more than a hot dog and maybe some nachos for Ginn.