The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

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THANK GOD!!!! The members of the Jason Allen fan club on this website will still crow about how great of a season he is having! lol lol

Sean Smith ain't no better but I would rather see if he has improved any over watching Jason Allen get abused and burned week in and week out.

You people just want him to fail.  Why?  Why not support the guy instead of clamoring for him to get demoted?

He's played well I think.  He got burned by the fastest guy in the league.  You don't see the 50-60 plays a game where he has his guy covered.  If you ask me, Benny Sapp is a much bigger liability on the field.

Not that I want to see Jason Allen fail but according to the Miami Herald, he has lost his starting job.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/10/29/1897172/sean-smith-is-back-in-action.html

Doesn't matter who starts between them. Neither of them is much better than the other and both are about average anyways.

It doesn't matter who's on the field on the first play.  They will both have a lot of playing time.

Played well? What games do you people watch? Take away Farve throwing the ball right to him TWICE in one game, and he has been HORRIBLE all season. Seriously, Farve is so bad and makes so many bad throws it has clouded people's judgement on DB's!! Allen did nothing week 1 because Buffalo is GOD AWFUL!! In week 2 Farve made him look like Deion. Week 3 Edwards DESTROYED Allen for 4 quarters. Week 4 Vonte took away Moss, and every completed pass by Brady was against Allen and the other DB's. Week 5 Aarond Rodgers had over 300 yards passing, and Vonte really only got beat once by Jennings. rest was at Allen for the most part. Then last week Allen got beat by Wallace for the long TD. Then on a couple 3rd and real longs he got beat by some guy nobody ever heard of on Pitt. Their 4th WR or something!! AND SOME OF YOU THINK HE PLAYED WELL THIS YEAR??? WHAT GAMES DO YOU PEOPLE WATCH??

Benny Sapp started on the BEST DEFENSE IN THE NFL LAST YEAR!! I'm not saying Sapp is great,
but he is a better DB than Jason Allen for christ sakes!!

Nobody is rooting for him to fail. I just want the BEST players on the field. And the BAD players off the field. And Jason Allen is a VERY BAD player!

FYI...Mike Wallace is fast, but nowhere NEAR the fastest guy in the league. Not even top 10 fastest. Not even close. Fast.....yes! But lets not over-hype Mike Wallce and make him the next Lynn Swan!

Apparently, this same rationalization does not apply to, say, Vontae.

Brady threw for 153 yards total.   In what way is that a HORRIBLE performance?

Oh, and Allen got an INT, while not giving up any TDs.  Not that that matters, or anything.

When you completely dismiss the good games, it's hard to take your opinion as objective.  When a no-TDs-allowed, 1-INT game is "horrible," then OF COURSE every other game will suck.  Except for the one against Favre, but that doesn't count because Favre was a Pro Bowl QB last season.  Oh, wait, no, some other excuse.

And for all your bluster about how Favre sucks and Allen's INTs against him don't mean anything, without Allen's INTs we LOSE that game to Brett Favre.

Certainly not the same games as you.   In the games you've watched, every game but MIN has been a "HORRIBLE" performance by Allen.  BUF was HORRIBLE.  NE was HORRIBLE.  GB was HORRIBLE.

I think he's had one great game (MIN), one good game (GB), two acceptable games (BUF and NE), and two poor games (NYJ and PIT).  If I were really as biased as you appear to be, I'd be screaming that EVERY GAME WAS AWESOME EXCEPT NYJ.

Brett Favre was the QB of the NUMBER TWO OFFENSE IN THE NFL LAST YEAR, but apparently that means nothing this year, right?

Wasn't your entire point in the other thread (before it spun off into your obsession with J.Allen) that Sean Smith sucks and is a bust?  Why are you now pleased that he's starting?

No...you, sir, have possibly clouded my judgement and evaluation of players with your asinine (yes, I said asinine) assessment of certain players' play.  While I agree with others here that Allen didn't have a good game against Pittsburgh, I'm sorry, even good--even great--DB's get burnt in coverage by burners, and, I'm sorry, but Mike Wallace is one of the fastest WR's in the league.  I watched him at Ole Miss a good bit while he was there, and the guy can straight fly.  Perish forbid that a CB gets burnt by a super-fast WR who's averaging the best YPC in the NFL since he's been in the league.  What a travesty, even if it's probably just because you've got blinders on because it happened to your own team. 

And that "nobody" WR you keep talking about for the Steelers who "no one has heard of"--maybe that's because he played at SMU until this season when he was drafted third by the Steelers, but obviously the Steelers, a team pretty astute in the draft for decades now, thought a lot of Emmanuel Sanders when they decided to take him in the 3rd freakin' round.  Watch, he'll probably end up being a pretty decent player, too.

I'm with Brian and Spider and all the others here that try to reason with you on how irrational you're being and that, yes, Allen has had a bad game or two so far this season but otherwise has been playing fine or even well.  While I understand that that doesn't mean it will continue and he could end up playing like sh*t the rest of the season, to evaluate his play as "HORRIBLE" thus far in the season is just...well, "HORRIBLE" itself.  Sorry. 

Doesn't seem like there's much talking sense into you, though.... :-\

If I am so wrong and Jason Allen is so great, then why did Allen lose his starting job and get benched.

Come on people!!

Please quote any post in this thread (or any other thread) where a board member referred to Jason Allen as "great" or "so great."

Come on, misrepresenters!!

You are the only one using the words "Jason Allen" and "great" in the same sentence. I think you are hallucinating what people are saying about Allen so that you can argue. No one is claiming he is great. They are saying he has played well.

Jason Allen is an average NFL cornerback.  There are a lot better, there are a lot worse.  His problem is he's extremely vulnerable to that back shoulder throw and at this point in his carreer he probably won't improve much.  Sean Smith still has a lot of time to improve and while he wasn't playing well this year, that doesn't mean he won't play well in the future.

average? It took the guy 4 years to crack a starting lineup (and it took Will Allen getting hurt to do so). And in those 4 years we had a 1-15 season and maybe one of the worst teams in NFL history. If you can't crack the lineup on a1-15 team you ain't average.....you stink!! Really STINK!

I am not very excited about Smith out there.  He looks a little slow at times and never seems to know where the ball is.  But he is good in press coverage and has improved his tackling.

Allen is not as good at press coverage, but has good ball skills and awareness.  His feet get out from under him at times, but you could see in that Jets game that the newly laid SOD got the best of him on the one big play.

Honestly, I have been kinda shocked at how good Allen has played.  Wallace may not be the leagues fastest man, but he is definitely up there.  Even the greatest player in the history of the NFL Darrell Revis gets beat deep by speedy receivers at times (including Ted Ginn).

My vote would be to stick with a bit of a mix, giving the edge to Allen because of his recent demonstration to break on the ball so effectively.

I'm still trying to follow this twisted chain of "logic":

1) Jason Allen has sucked in the past, therefore he sucks now.
2) J.Allen has been starting over Sean Smith, therefore Smith sucks even worse (and is a bust).
3) Benny Sapp started on the #1 defense last year, therefore he is good now.
4) J.Allen is starting over Sapp, but Sapp is still better anyway.
5) Smith (who, remember, sucks worse than J.Allen) may be starting now.  This is a good thing (?!).

Please make up your mind.  Either the past is all-important (in which case Sapp is the best DB on our team and Allen is special-teams-only) or the present is what matters (in which case J.Allen outplayed almost every CB on the roster to earn the start).

Jason Allen starts over Sapp because Sapp is the ONLY DB on our roster who can play in the slot and has experience playing the slot. There is a huge difference playing CB on the outside and playing CB in the slot. 

And yes Smith starting over Jason Allen is a good thing. Because YES both suck. Smith sucks a little less right now than Jason Allen does. So I would rather have the guy who sucks LESS on the field.

Not that tough to follow in reality!

This is an explanation?

If Sapp is better than Allen, why isn't Sapp starting and playing the outside receiver, then switching to the slot when there is a slot receiver?  When Brandon Marshall goes to the sideline for a play, will Revis or Cromartie just throw up their hands and walk off of the field?

If Sapp's skillset is so limited that he can only be used to defend slot receivers, how does that make him better?  And why was he starting in MIN (as you claimed) if he is slot only?

Christ we just got rid of Tepop and his inane drivel about Henne, and now we have a Tepop clone.

Bottom line is you can't discount all the plays Jason Allen has made, and focus on the 3 or 4 plays where he got beat.  Guys get beat every week, including the "best corner in NFL history" Darrelle Revis.

Just cause he gets beat occasionally doesn't mean he sucks.  Just means he sucked just then.

Without Allen, we probably lose the Minnesota AND Green Bay game.  You OK with that?

Jason Allen is probably the 2nd or 3rd best tackler on the team.  Sean Smith has gotten progressively worse since the beginning of last season. 

And, incase you didn't know, he DID start 9 games in 2007.

Who said Sapp was a slot only guy? I Just said he is the ONLY guy on Miami who can play the slot. Don't spin my words now to make your weak argument somewhat stronger than it is

This is where you come off as clueless...."WHAT PLAYS"???? What Bret Farve threw a couple balls right to him and he didn't drop them? That isn't making a play that is getting lucky.

Like I said, if he is playing so well and doing so good......why is he getting benched?! WAKE UP!! Stop being a Jason Allen jock sniffer!!!

And none of that has to do with the fact that he got switched from Corner to Safety by both Saban and Cameron no less than 4 times? 

You are clearly that "see-what-you-wanna-see" type of fan.

What you call "Favre threw it right to him" I see a great defensive play. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5J7_hwOPa8
at 5 minutes, he had great position on the WR.  Give credit where its due.
at 6:20, it was a great athletic play, hardly thrown "right at him"

If he was as "horrible" as you say he is, he wouldn't have been anywhere near either of those plays.

Your a hater, admit it.

because he sucked at both they were trying to find a spot to play him to justify his un-cuttable contract since he was drafted 16th overall. Ya can't cut him and take the huge cap hit, so they kept trying to find a place to play him becuase he stunk at both positions and couldn't do either well

The fact I haveyou now basing your whole argument on 2 plays......proves my point. Good players, great players have soooooooooooooo many good to great plays week in and week out there isn't just one to point too to make your whole case.

Just admit the guy isnt' a good football player. And lost his job to a 2nd round bust of a player.

I'm not basing anything on 2 plays.   Just like you can't THROW OUT the great plays he makes from your argument.

You hated him when we drafted him, and you still hate him because you never change your opinion of a guy once its sealed in stone.

But, yeah, you're right, and everyone else here is wrong.

Who is throwing it out?!  It's just 2 plays in 6 games.  Sorry making 2 plays in 6 games doesn't make you a good player.

Sparano agrees with me. Mike Nolan agrees with me. That is why they benched Jason Allen. Everyone here IS WRONG!!! Mike Nolan, Tony Sparano and myself are right!  8)

First drive of the game....Jason Allen BEATEN by T.O. for a touchdown

Some things never change. Get him off the field, Allen is terrible

THANK YOU GOD!!!

Jason Allen got the start. Got beat 3 times on the opening drive and gave up a TD. Hasn't been on the field since as a defensive back!

There is a god!!!! No more Jason Allen!!! WHOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOO!!!

Where are all of my Jason Allen "lovers" today???

Time to come here and eat some crow!!! Admit you were wrong!!

You seem to view this as some sort of a contest, where you "win" if Allen has a bad game (but if he has a good game, like against GB, then it doesn't count).

You've been claiming that he has had a "HORRIBLE SEASON" since before the PIT game, when his play was, overall, quite good.  At the time that you were screaming that he sucked, he was clearly playing better than everyone but (maybe) Vontae.

If Smith can step up and make plays like he did today, then great!  He should start.  But I find your abrupt about face on Smith to be rather amusing, given that you were recently saying this:

Did Smith also have a HORRIBLE game today?  Or are you still fixated on Allen for now?

Not that you would let a little thing like intellectual integrity get in the way of boasting about your mighty victory, or anything.

He was BENCHED after the Pitt game. Given one series this week, got abused 3 times.. then benched. And yet you still think he played good vs Pitt?!?

Come on man, you can't even believe your own BS at this point?!


And what about face on Smith? Did I say Smith played great today? He was ok. Palmer threw a ball right to him and he didn't drop it. Good. Nothing great. Palmer handed him an easy INT. Sean Smith still stinks. But he is now better than a terrible Jason Allen! So play Smith over Allen. Hardly an endorsement by me!

Reading is fundamental.

try and get off the topic as much as you can by pointing out every little thing and except the topic at hand.

You were wrong on Jason Allen as were many others here.  And you fail to admit it and are still saying he is having a good season. WATCH THE GAMES!

MikeO, why are you even pretending that you care about the results of the games?  You made up your mind before the season started that Allen sucked.

He made 2 INTs (with a 3rd offset by penalty) in a close game, playing an integral part in the win, and your excuse is "It's Brett Favre, anyone can do that" (note: no other player this year has intercepted Favre twice in one game)

He had a good game and pulled down a key INT against GB, as well as having solid games against BUF and NE.  Your description of all three of these games: "HORRIBLE"

The difference between you and I is that I've already acknowledged that Allen had a bad game against NYJ, and I'm happy to agree that he's played poorly the last two weeks.  But even when he's had a good game, your only response is either "he still sucked" or "that didn't count".

Had Allen had a good game against PIT, your response would have been "Ben hasn't even been playing for most of the year, what do you expect?"
Had Allen had a good game against CIN, your response would have been "Palmer sucks this year, he couldn't even beat the Browns."

So why are you acting like you care about what actually happens in the game?  When he has a bad game, he's HORRIBLE, but when he has a good game, he's still HORRIBLE.  When he was playing better than he had since he's been here (and better than almost everyone else on D), you were still trashing him.

lol. jason allen played 1 series today, and gave up a 9 yard completion to TO, and a 7 yard touchdown pass that clemons probably should have helped on.  He also defended a deep pass to TO.  Under what metric did he play terribly today?  Vontae on that drive gave up a 6 yard completion on 3rd and 3, and a 14 yard completion on 3rd and 10. 

Good post Dan.

MikeO, what I don't think anyone here is saying Allen is elite or even very good this year.  We are all saying he has been anywhere from "average" to "above average".  He hasn't been anywhere near as bad as you've said he's been.  Again, I repeat, NO ONE IS SAYING HE IS GREAT.  He has been okay for us.  To say he's been HORRIBLE is just ignorant.

Where are these good games he has had? I mean you throw it out there like he has played well this year. HE HASN'T....take away Farve giving him 2 gifts and he has sucked in every other game! That is what you can't seem to grasp. He has sucked so bad now he has lost ALL playing time. Yet I'm the crazy one.......you guys must not actually watch the games.  If he is so "solid" in all of these games, why has he lost ,most if not all of his playing time? JUST ANSWER THAT QUESTION!!

BUT HE HASN'T!!!!!!!! Average players or above average players don't lose ALL OF THEIR PLAYING TIME! They don't get fully benched!!!

He is TERRIBLE! He has been so bad and gotten so much worse every week now to the point he is now the 4th CB on Miami and will play little to none on defense. How come you guys can't see this or understand it???? It

You continue to claim that he "sucked" against GB, BUF, and NE.  This is why everyone is dismissing you.

It's impossible to take your claims as valid when you evaluate good games as HORRIBLE.  If you think that he "sucked" in the GB game (no big plays given up, 1 INT grabbed) then of course you are going to call every other performance a bad game.

In practice Ben Roethlisberger once overthrew Wallace on a deep ball and Mike Tomlin STOPPED practice.  Yeah, he IS one of the fastest guys in the league if not THE fastest.

Yeah, it's either C.J. or Wallace for the "NFL's ultimate burner" tag...

If he was so good in ALL of those games, then a bad game or two wouldn't get you taken off the field and benched.

Please,  the fact that Nolan and Sparano removed him from the field totally yesterday, not just benched but benched and DIDN'T even come back as a back-up ..........says it all.  Keep fooling yourself into thinking he played good in games this year!!! Keep fooling yourself

WTF does that prove? Nobody cares what happens in practice. IF it really did happen at all. Unless its on video tape of some sort who knows if they are telling the truth or this is a story that is getting exagarated. And even if it did happen, who cares. It's a stupid practice!! It proves nothing. It sure as hell isnt' an excuse for Jason Allen getting burned last week.

Hey genius, Smith was going to start but sat out the first series because he was in the doghouse for something.  Why would a backup come on the field if the starters aren't hurt.  You really proved your point there.

Hey genius, we were in DIME packages and 4 CB sets in that game numerous times, especially late when Cincy was throwing every down trying to get back in the game and Jason Allen still wasn't on the field.  So you go from starter to the 5th CB overnight!!!

Get a clue!

You're not a Dolphin fan are you?  It did happen.  The announcers were talking about it during the game.  Tomlin was so SHOCKED that Ben overthrew him, he stopped practice.  Basically he didn't think the guy COULD be overthrown, he's THAT fast.

It doesn't PROVE anything other than the fact that you don't know what the hell you are talking about when you say that Wallace isn't that fast.

now because we don't agree I am not a dolphins fan? You got to be kidding. This is your best comeback??

I was suggesting that you didn't see the game against Pittsburgh.  The announcers went on and on about Wallace and how fast he was.  That's when they made the comment about practice.  They even pointed out that Allen used PERFECT technique on that play where Wallace beat him and Wallace just simply outran him and they said there was absolutely nothing that Allen could have done about it.

Lots of people don't agree with me, but most of the people here actually watch the games.  Do you?

I watch every game. I don't care what the announcers said. That doesn't make it true. Announcer kiss the fanny's of every player. That is what the NFL wants.

Like I said, if Jason Allen is so great, why was he removed from the game in Cincy as a DB. Please, this defending him is laughable now. it has gone to a laughable level.....you people can't win this argument, just admit Jason Allen isn't any good and there is a reason why he has now been benched and removed from the defensive side of the football field.  All he is good for is running down punts and kickoffs!

^^ I wasn't defending Jason Allen I was simply correcting you when you said that Wallace wasn't one of the 10 fastest players in the NFL.  He is whether or not you believe it.

What ever happened to that little graphic of the guy with the whip, and the horse?  ::)  ::)  ::)

whatever, fast...super fast,. ..Who cares. Not a pitt fan; don't care if the guy can run a 2 minute mile.  Point is Jason Allen can break in his baseball cap and get used to wearing it a lot more on Sunday's thankfully!!! He is now benched. He can run down his 2 or 3 kickoffs and punts a game cause thats all he is good for.

Just for the record, Wallace had a 4.28 40 yard dash combine time.

Chris Johnson had a 4.24 40 yard dash combine time I believe.

...what?  This regime has benched people at a whim since they took over.  Look at the OL.

Yes, it says that he was playing poorly.  Henne was benched (excuse me, BENCHED) against NE.

As long as you continue to insist that the BUF, NE, and GB games were "HORRIBLE," you have no credibility.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_35kDzNt-gTQ/RpmeXjcag9I/AAAAAAAAACE/Bpo04QrGBvc/s320/dead+horse.gif)

 ;D

According to Wikipedia, Wallace's 40-time was 4.33s.  For comparison's sake, The Ginn Family purportedly ran a 4.28 (but he didn't participate in combine workouts, so...).

I was able to dig up this nugget from 2008:

Following are the best 40 times and results in other events recorded by NFLDraftScout.com since 1999.

40-Yard Dash Times
4.24 - Rondel Melendez, (WR), Eastern Kentucky - 1999
4.28 - Jerome Mathis, (WR), Hampton - 2005
4.28 - *Champ Bailey, (CB), Georgia - 1999
4.29 - Stanford Routt, (CB), Houston - 2005
4.29 - Jay Hinton, (RB), Morgan State - 1999
4.29 - *Fabian Washington, (CB), Nebraska - 2005
4.30 - Yamon Figurs (WR), Kansas State - 2007
4.30 - Darrent Williams, (CB), Oklahoma State - 2005
4.31 - *Johnathan Joseph, (CB), South Carolina - 2006
4.31 - Aaron Lockett, (WR), Kansas State - 2002
4.31 - Santana Moss, (WR), Miami - 2001
4.32 - *Troy Williamson, (WR), South Carolina - 2005
4.32 - *Chad Jackson, (WR), Florida - 2006
4.32 - Jason Hill (WR), Washington State - 2007
4.32 - Tim Jennings, (CB), Georgia - 2006
4.32 - Chris McKenzie, (CB), Arizona State - 2005
4.32 - Tim Carter, (WR), Auburn - 2002
4.32 - Kevin Garrett, (CB), Southern Methodist - 2003
4.32 - Antwan Harris, (CB), Virginia - 2000
4.33 - Carlos Francis, (WR), Texas Tech - 2004
4.33 - Karsten Bailey, (WR), Auburn - 1999
4.33 - Chris Chambers, (WR), Wisconsin - 2001
4.34 - *Ahmad Carroll, (CB), Arkansas - 2004
4.34 - Domonique Foxworth, (CB), Maryland - 2005
4.34 - Tyrone Calico, (WR), Middle Tennessee State - 2003

So yeah, 4.33s is still damn fast.

How do you know he spent the rest of the game on the bench?  Were you at the game?  Or did you only see what the cameras showed you?  If he has a man covered and they don't throw his way, he doesn't get on camera.

But you don't care about that.  He sucks.

4 CB set and he didn't play.  Name the next corner on the team after Smith, Davis, Sapp, Allen... 

Is there a graphic of a guy grasping at straws?

1) He wasn't on the field
2) THE ANNOUNCERS said it
3) Read Sparano's post game quotes and press conference when he was asked about it. It's on GOOGLE, easy to find!

Evan Oglesby and Tyrone Culver were playing in our DIME package

I played against Fabian Washington my sophomore year in highschool...he went to Bayshore High.  Their whole team was horrible and the OLmen were way undersized, but they ran sweep plays the whole time (he was a RB at the time) and killed us like 31-7.  We knew what play was coming, but he was so fast we couldn't do anything to stop him.  It was unbelievable how fast he was.

Culver is a safety.  You clearly said 4 CB.

And I didn't see Evan Oglesby on the field.  Now you're just making stuff up.

Culver is a saftey but played CB in our dime as a CB.....not that unheard of. Go re-watch the 4th quarter. He's out there as is Oglesby. Go GOOGLE Sparano's post game press conference, he talks about!  ::)

Proof is there if you want to see it. Or you can bury your head in the sand and live in la-la land and NOT reality!

Wow, enough already. We get it. You hate Jason Allen. He's benched. Can you shut up now?