The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

I'll tell you one thing.  Miami better not take Buffalo or Detroit lightly or they'll lose both of these games.  Buffalo just loves to stick it to Miami even when they are having a bad year and Detroit is getting better every week.  Sparano has one last chance to convince me that he should stick around next year.  Come up with solid wins against Buffalo and Detroit and I'll be convinced you deserve another year regardless of what happens in New England.  Lose to either team and I'm gonna be calling for your head before the season is over.  Pull this team out of the funk it has been in for the last 2 weeks.

Time to put up or shut up Tony Sparano.  There's no excuses any more.

And if you win both....decent chance you will go into week 17 with playoff hopes.  Probably not, win and your in.  But a decent chance that of Dolphins win plus.....something else or multiple something else's... Ravens loss, Jets loss, Colts, loss...and you're in. 

^^That's all I want.  Go into the game against New England with something to play for.

The Bills and Lions are much tougher at this point in the season than they were earlier in the year.  The Bills are playing more cohesive, and have won some games to give them a winning attitude.  And the Lions are playing with more heart this year than i've seen in ten years.  The Lions could easily have three more wins than they currently have.

Neither team is nearly as good as the Jets.  If you can't beat both those teams you don't deserve to be in the discussion for playoffs.  Nor will you be. 

I know I'm in the minority, but I think that Sparano has already done enough this year to keep his job, short of something happening that is disasterous.

I think Buffalo only plays us tough in their house.  I think both of these games should be handy wins.

But nothing is guaranteed with this team this season.  Especially at home.

I expect 2 W's here.  I hope I'm not disappointed.

I believe our playoff hopes ended with our last loss, although I am still pulling for the Fins to win out, even though they won't make the playoffs.  The thing to keep in mind is divisional games are always tough, you play each other twice every year; and you should know each others plays and tendencies.  I was at the season opener in Buffalo and the Fins beat the Bills up and down the field all day long, yet at the end of the game the Bills still had a shot to win. 

I dream of the Fins having one season before I die where they dominate games all season long...

what has he done? Seriously, what has he done? This team "might" finish .500. He had to fire a coach mid-season. He has won 1 home game as we enter the week before Christmas. And this is his 3rd year in Miami. This franchise has gotten WORSE each year under him.

What has he done to warrant keeping his job? Please share

It might have ended with your last loss.

Or maybe Josh Wilson int TD last night.  Now in order for you to pass the Raven they need to drop the next three.  I see them losing to the Saints, but they ain't losing to both the Bengals and Browns.

Jets could easily lose to the next two.  But losing to the Bills is pushing it.

As for you vs. NE.  If NE wins its next two you might be facing Hoyer and the JV squad.  Or maybe not.  BB does preach 60 mins of football.  But I could see him losing just to fuck with Ryan.  He did gift wrap you a game in 2005 so he would have to play the Jags instead of the Steelers.

I don't think your season is over...but it ain't looking very good either.  

As for dominate all the games in a season.  No team has ever done that.  Every teams has had close game.  Even the teams that won all of them.  

The Dolphins have had their glory years.  I remember when every year it was either the Bills or Dolphins winning the divisions, while the Pats, the Jets and the Colts would battle for 3rd, 4th, and 5th in the division.  Maybe that was before your time.  

With parity in the league what it is.  The Dolphins will some day be back on the top of the AFCE and the Pats in the cellar.  Don't know if that will be in 2 years or 5 or 10 or 25.  But it will happen.  Football is set up to be circular much more than baseball or basketball is.  

should probably wait until the end of the season to make a strong statement like that.

if this team ends up with 9 or 10 wins, that's a pretty miraculous feat with the sad state of qb play and number of injuries this team has endured this season. it would also be indicative of a team that didn't quit on their coach which would have been pretty easy given it's current post-season outlook.

head coach isn't the problem with this team. better production from the qb position and this team could possibly be real contenders.

I'm with you Dave.  I think you have to give this regime and QB at least one more year.  Hopefully, we can get lucky and draft Locker so we have a QB waiting in the wings if Henne fucks up again next year.  There is too much invested in this team to start from scratch again, but if mediocre play continues into next year, something has to be done.

I don't believe in firing coaches without cause.  I don't think that our shortcomings are due to Sparano.  We are a team with average talent and we're playing at or just above that level.  We may be a crappy team, but if we fire Sparano, we'll just be a crappy team with a different coach - he's not the problem.  I find that those that want Sparano gone are doing it vindictively, not because it will actually make our team better.

But on top of all of that, I think it's because Sparano hasn't lost the team.  The players are still playing for him.

Head Coach is the biggest problem with this team. He hires our crappy assistants. He decides on starting guys like Pat McQuistin and Jason Allen. He challenges the wrong play and doesn't challenge the plays that need to be challenged. And like I said, no excuse for only having 1 home win in mid December. No excuse for that!!

If we bring in John Fox, Jon Gruden, Jeff Fisher, or Bill Cowher....we are a better team. There is no dobut about that.

I ONLY wan Sparano gone because we don't win! Period! Nothing personal. And if you think our talent level is crappy, hate to break it to ya that is on Sparano's hands!!! He makes roster decisisions on who plays and doesn't. He is in the draft room and has input on free agents. Enough with the exuses with Sparano. He has failed in his 3 years in Miami. Time to move on. The ONLY thing that saves him is a lockout. Which means he is a lame duck coach for 2011 working without a new contract.

There is no doubt IN YOUR MIND about that

(hasn't this lesson sunk in yet?)

Not trying to start anything, but I would think it would be common sense to say we would be a better team with a veteran head coach.

^^^ You're not starting anything...you're just expressing that is your "opinion" as well...  No problema.

At least two people who have commented on this subject (myself, Dave) disagree with this opinion. Since you're projecting what will happen "in the future," given certain events transpiring, it's just guessing...as no one here is clairvoyant and can accurately see the future.  You think a veteran coach would make the team play better...cool. I (and at least one other person) believes that the head coach isn't the issue, as much as a mediocre level of talent.  I also agree with Dave that consistency at the head coach position is important, especially with a team that has a lot of young players on the roster.

[Insert MLK's "I have a dream..." speech]

I really look forward to the day when everyone understands that...

1) ...All opinions regarding future events are just opinions, regardless of the level of conviction a person feels about that opinion, until events come to pass that prove or disprove those opinions.

2) ...People who disagree with your opinion of future events aren't wrong until those events come to pass that disprove the alternate opinion.

3) ...People can disagree with other people's opinions of future events without insulting or attacking the person who holds a differing opinion.

I think Sunny is trying to point out the difference between opinion and fact....

Opinion: the team would be better off with a different coach

Opinion: Sapano is a better coach than Shula and Belichick combined.

Fact: Sapano took over a team that was one overtime win of joining the '76 Bucs as the only winless team to that point.

Fact: The Dolphins record under Sapano was worse in year 2 than year 1. 

Opinions should be started by saying "I, we, or they feel" or "I, we, or they believe" but people don't. I think this is why people even confuse themselves as to fact or opinion.

I don't know if we have to go that far...but don't end opinions with "There is no doubt about that." 

I have doubt about that.

If we had any of these guys, it'd be the same story, but we'd have a more famous coach.  We bring in big people, get all excited, and then run them out of town after a few years.  It's a bad cycle.

Besides, I don't think it's fair to say that he has failed all 3 years.  We will have had 2 winning seasons, out of three, with improvement from last year.  This is a guy who can theoretically still finish 10-6.

Teams that dump coaches every few years remain crappy teams.

Steelers:

Number of Superbowl wins: 6
Number of head coaches in the super bowl era: 4

To steal a line from time-life books, "Coincidence? I think not"

Thanks! And not to mention, the ego of one of those coaches woild result in Mike Nolan going bye bye to make room for the new coaches people. Haven't we had enough of that?

Some people have this mindset that its walking papers for any player who doesn't make the Pro Bowl, and every coach that doesn't have us going 18-1 with a Super Bowl win.

That is why I will sometimes end my opinion with....

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Hopefully that helps people remember it IS only my opinion.

Exactly!  I think that there are salvagable parts to this organization  and leadership.  To get rid of the coach at the top means all new assistants, trainers, etc.  I like Sparano's fire and would rather target only the problem areas.

If this team had a discipline problem or the coach had lost the locker-room, I can understand starting at the top, but as is, Sparano is motivated and has the heart of his players.

And regarding John Fox or Cowher or Gruden, I don't want a re-tread coach.  I want someone who's young and hungry.

You'd think we would have learned our retread lesson from Jimmy Johnson and Dave Wannstedt.

I don't think you can make a broad stroke statement that all retreads are bad:

Shula
Belichick
Dungy

More often than not, they are..and no head coach has ever won Super Bowls with 2 different teams.

Wade Phillips
Jimmy Johnson
Dave Wannstedt
Chan Gailey
Buddy Ryan
Bill Parcells
(Opposite) Dick Vermeil
Marty Shottenheimer
Mike Holmgren
Mike Shanahan
Dennis Green
etc

Dungy could be the exception, because as far as I'm concerned, he should have a ring with the Bucs as well.

^^^ I am not saying all retreads are good.  But not all are bad.  Each must be judged on his own.

I don't think this is the time for the Dolphins to make a coaching change.  But if it was it would be foolish to either exclude all retread or focus only on retreads. 

^^^ Now THIS is the type of discussion I love getting into...openly exchanging ideas and opinions, with nary a name being called or a person being attacked. Oh joy, oh bliss, oh message board rapture!

I agree on the "not all retreads are bad" sentiment, but the odds certainly favor "not" having success with a retread coach. In situations where we know that a head coach is being replaced, I'd really prefer to find some "wunderkind" who is rapidly rising up the coaching ranks, and give THAT guy his shot at a HC position before I go with a retread just because he has name recognition. Regardless of whether a team looks to a new young gun HC or an older retread, one thing is certain (imo)...the more talent that a team has on the roster, the better chance "any" new coach will have for success once he gets the job.

That said, the only team I'm really hoping for a HC change is my 49ers.  I love Mike Singletary's fire, but he seems out of his depth when it comes to game planning and getting his team prepared for opponents.

You mean like Josh McDanials?

There isn't a certain class that is more likely at success or failure....be it stealing a successful young OC/DC, retread, college coaches,  etc.  The important thing is to find the right person.

This is exactly how I feel about Sparano.  What's worse is that to me he compensates by stressing not making mistakes and playing conservatively figuring that as long as they don't do anything to lose the game, they will win it.  

I want the guy who almost thinks too highly of himself.  Will call risky plays because he's confident the team can execute it.  Will try to go for the jugular in games and go for it on 4th down because he's confident the team will make the play.  Instead of stressing over turnover's embraces them as a fact of life and uses them as teaching tools for improvement.

Yes, I want few turnovers, but not at the expense of having an aggressive game plan.

The problem with a guy like McDaniels is that he should NEVER be in charge of personnel.  McDaniels mistakes have been in over valuing guys like Tim Tebow while under valuing guys like Brandon Marshall, Mike Nolan and Jay Cutler.  McDaniels needed a General Manager with veto power over him.  If he had that, he would have fared better.

I think you are mixing two things here.  I think you would be hard pressed to find a HC more obsessed about avoiding turnovers on offense than BB.  Likewise there aren't many (maybe any) that goes for it on 4th more often then him. 

So you're telling me that BB DOESN'T have an aggressive offense?  No he does.  But he thinks you can have an aggressive offense and still have low turnovers.  That's what I want.  I don't believe that Tony Sparano really believes that or at least he doesn't teach it.  That's why he'll punt on 4th and 1 when BB won't because BB is aggressive.  Sparano is safe.

This really moving off topic. 

But BB has an incredibly safe offense the is year.  You are thinking of 2007.  This year is dominated by short passes and TE formations.  The longest TD pass of Bears game was an act of mutiny.  BB called for Brady to take a knee to end the first half.  Brady changed the play at the line and Branch scored a TD. 

What makes this years offense so powerful is that nobody has the personal to defend it, not that it is aggressive.  We have three tight ends, two outstanding slot receivers and a shifty running back that can catch the ball.   So BB can create mismatches with the linebackers and TE or CB that is build to defend a #1 deep route WR covering a slot guy. 

And three AFCE teams have built their entire defense around the concept of needing to shut down Randy Moss.  ;D

Agreed, so I'll make my reply short.  (sort of..this is short for me.)

BB's offense this year is predicated on his team's strengths.  When he had Moss, he had no qualms about throwing downfield, now he doesn't have the personnel to do it, but he has the TE's.

Tony had Ginn and Henne last year.  Henne has the arm to throw it deep and Ginn has the wheels, but how many attempts were there?  Few.

Now you might say that's because Henne and Ginn aren't anything like Brady and Moss and I would agree, but that begs the question is that the chicken or the egg?  In other words did Brady and Moss make BB or did BB make Brady and Moss?  There's a little truth to both but I think you get my point.  I felt like Henne and Ginn should have been better at stretching the field last year and part of that problem was Sparano.  I also felt that Henne and Marshall should have been more effective this year and part of that problem was also Sparano.  It's not all his fault, but it's not just because Henne and Marshall suck either.

For good or bad, I feel we had a regime change,when Parcells left the building...The trifecta,turned into a two headed monster,and perhaps a more unified direction....

Moss and Brady are better than Henne and Ginn.  No point discussing that.  

Brady is a question mark of how much of it is BB.  He has only played with BB so what he would do with another coach is pure speculation.

Moss OTOH the 07 Patriots and the 98 Viking, all time #1 and #2 offenses.  Randy was part of both so we know Randy can be great.  The only thing that was on BB was his ability to keep Randy in line and motivated.  Not minimizing that as a feat, multiple people have failed at that.  

OTOH, we can definitely say BB is infinitely better at utilizing Wes Welker than the Dolphins were.  Or Danny Woodhead than the Jets.

So moving onto Ginn...  If Sparono was truly handicapping Ginn you would expect that his yards would go up in SF, but they went down.  Likewise,  Pennington has three seasons where he started 13 or more games.  If Sparono can't come up with an effective offense you would expect his worst would be the one with the Fins.  But it was his best.  

We don't know if another coach could get more out of Henne.  Be we do know Sparono got more out of Penny than the Jets and more out of Ginn than SF.  

Don't forget that he was also a part of the Raiders and didn't look so hot.  So again you have to ask yourself if it's the player or the team/coach.

Only if you believe that SF has a better team/coach.  I don't think so.

Had a lot to do with the schedule he was playing coming off a 1-15 season.  A conservative offense actually worked well against that lineup of bottom feeders.  When they got to the playoffs, the Ravens feasted off of Pennington like he was a rookie starting his first game.

Want to see the schedule Miami played in 2008?

They beat the Patriots (without Tom Brady and using the wildcat), San Diego, Buffalo twice, Denver, Seattle, Oakland, St. Louis, San Francisco, Kansas City and the Jets.

They lost to the Jets, Arizona, Houston, Baltimore (and again in the playoffs) and New England. 

They played I think 2 games against playoff teams and lost both of them badly and then got beat badly in the playoffs as well.  They squeeked by Seattle, Oakland, St. Louis and San Francisco by 3, 2, 4 and 5 points respectively.

That was NOT a great 11-5 team as you have pointed out.  Sparano made it work and I'll give him credit for that, but now we need someone who can play a tough schedule and get us into the playoffs.  Sparano hasn't shown he can do that the passed 2 years.

You cut on the part where I credited BB for keeping Moss focused and in line.  But it doesn't take a PhD in football to tell Randy run down the field. 


You need multiple people. Name one position where you have a clear edge over the Jets personnel wise other than punter. That's on Ireland not Sparano. 

i just don't get why folks attribute so much of execution on gameday to the head coach and coaching staff. i haven't seen sparano run, catch, throw, tackle, cover, anyone on sundays for the dolphins.

people put way too much into what a coach can actually do. like they have some magical powers or something. it's funny how when meyer loses his star players to the nfl, he only wins 7 games. mack brown, he can't win the big one, can't beat oklahoma, gets vince young and mccoy, and unbelievably wins? now he has a bunch a crappy players and can't coach again. on and on... chizik gets cam newton, and everyone forgets the god awful teams he had at iowa state

Once again edge goes to the Jets coaching staff.   >:D

zing!  ;D

I just don't see us losing because we're outcoached.

I love Belicheck (envy him, at least), but he's able to do things we aren't because he's got great players in key positions.  That matters.  Brady has protection and doesn't make mistakes, with receivers who catch the ball.

Sure, I want to see us go for it on 4th down, but when you're getting only 5 completions a game, you just can't make that call.  The Pats are an anomaly.

My point is that ANYONE with speed can run down the field.  It takes more than that to be effective.  It takes coaching and the player applying that coaching.  Ginn didn't seem to do it.  Moss did.  Why?  I don't know.  Maybe Moss was more talented or maybe he's just had better coaching or was able to apply that coaching better.  It may not have even been a coach, I've heard Cris Carter had a lot to do with showing Moss how to play the receiver position.

Ireland is responsible for potential.  Sparano is responsible for taking potential and turning it into actual ability.  Yes it's possible that Ireland may have made some mistakes in seeing potential, but it's also equally possible that Sparano hasn't done his part in turning potential into ability.

Consider that one of your examples of Sparano's coaching ability is Pennington.  Pennington came to the team literally weeks before the season started.  I doubt there was much that Sparano could possibly teach Pennington in the couple weeks he was here.  Most of what Pennington knew about football he already knew before coming to the Dolphins.

Sparano has done a nice job with Long.  Name another rookie that's he's done a nice job with.  Vontae maybe? 1 or 2 isn't good enough.  Miami has drafted 26 players under Sparano.  How many would you say he's done a good job developing?  It's not all Ireland.  Sparano got a vote in the drafts as well.

But you have to ask yourself, is Brady just that good or did BB have something to do with developing Brady.  It's not like Brady stepped onto the Patriots, they took one look at him and said get him onto the field, he's ready to go now.  Brady didn't play his rookie year.  Even his first full year starting he didn't look that amazing.  18 TD's and 12 INT's.  But he got better each of those years and by year 3 he was looking a lot like he does today.  So do you think just anyone could have gotten that out of him or did BB do a better job of developing Brady than maybe Sparano would have?  Given BB's ability to do that with not just Brady, but with a lot of players, I tend to think BB had a lot to do with it.

Brady won the Super Bowl off the bench.  I think it's safe to say that he started strong right out of the gate, but BB had another big name guy ahead of him.

I don't know if Brady would be Brady if he'd started under Sparano.  I have no idea.  But I think that at some point, good players will be good -- bad players, bad.  I think that Henne has been well coached, actually.  It's pretty amazing that he can win games with the way he plays.  The coaches have done a good job at making him get rid of the ball and limit turnovers (though that's regressed a bit in the last couple of weeks.)

Yeah...BB gets more out of his players than the avg. coach. 

But you don't fire avg coaches, you fire bad ones.

Sparono's problem is you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. 

shanahan, offensive genius, head coaching brilliance with elway... with mcnabb, the guy is a bum

What?  He started 14 of 16 games that year.  Not exactly coming off the bench to win the Super Bowl.

On top of that he had a QB rating of 77.3 in the playoffs.  It's not like he was the sole reason they won the SB that year.  He had 1 TD and 1 INT in the post season.  Let's not start rewriting history here and making Brady the best QB in his 2nd year in the league in the history of the NFL.  That belongs to Dan.

Team went 0-2 with a four time pro-bowl QB that year, and the prior season team went 5-11.

Only thing that changes is the QB and the team turns around 5-13 and goes 11-3 and wins the superbowl. 

While Brady might not have been the sole reason.  But he had a huge part in it.   

Well I remember Bum Philips praising Don Shula in this way.

"He can take his'n and beat your'n and then take your'n and beat his'n".

That's my definition of a great coach.

He had a part.  How huge it was is debateable.  Might be saying more about the inetitude of that 4 time pro-bowler than of the brilliance of Brady that year.

I remember that year very well.  Brady was a nobody then.  In the week leading up to the SuperBowl a lot was made of the fact that St Louis had all the stars and the Patriots were a "team".  I was rooting for that "team" of the Patriots to beat the stars and they did, even when no one expected them too.  I was disappointed when Brady then became a star after that game.  I liked the "team" image that New England had put foward, but that all went out the window after they won the Super Bowl.  Let's not forget that Brady went 9-7 the next year and missed the playoffs.

Yeah...i have heard that.  And I am willing to bet if you gave BB and week with Fins and Sapano a week with the Pats BB is gonna prevail.  

OTOH.  You give Rex Ryan the Fins and Sapano the Jets.  Sapano will whip Ryan so bad it would make the Jets-Pats MNF game look razor close.  The talent gap between the Jets and Fins is insane.  

Did you watch the last game between both of those teams?  The Jets have an edge, but it's not nearly as big as you're making it out to be.

I blame it on one team being better coached and showing up to play and the other teams psyche being broken because of horrible coaching making their prior game more significant than it really was.  And an inability of the coach to get the team to focus on the next game. 

The reason why you beat the Jets is you have a better coach. 

Oh, I see they were still reeling from the beating by your team.  I should have known. :)

I didn't see it that way.  I think we beat the Jets because our QB didn't play as bad as their QB.  Henne didn't play that great, but he did take advantage of a couple turnovers to put 10 points on the board, their QB didn't.  It was a pretty sloppy game by both sides.

All 4 of those guys have led a team to a Super Bowl. And 2 of them won it. They are all heads and shoulders superior head coaches than Sparano.

Let's compare resumes on those 4, Sparano is at the BOTTOM of the list!

How many games has our special teams lost us this year? At least 2 (Pats and Jets). We are being outcoached.

How many times has Dan Henning called a god awful game.

WE ARE BEING OUT COACHED!! Sparano hires these bums and is responsible for them

Sparano has a lot of say in personnel decisions. So he has blood on his hands for some of our crappy free agent signings and all. It isn't like he is left in the dark on these moves.

Yes, and all 4 of those guys have been to Super Bowls and won conference titles and coach of the year awards. Any of those 4 make our team better. Much better. Not even up for debate.

Why Cowher runs a 3-4 defense and would love to have Nolan. Gruden is an offensive guy and lets his defensive coach run any defense he wants. Fisher has been around long enough to keep a good coach like Nolan around and not let him walk. Fox would maybe be the only coach who wouldn't want Nolan. But still, I would part with Nolan if it means I get Fox.

This is where we ultimately disagree.  I think it doesn't make sense to fire the HEAD COACH for specific unit problems.  I would choose to address those separately.

I think that the head coach is responsible for overall outlook, controlling the locker room, balancing team chemistry, etc.  I am concerned in some of these areas, but overall, I think he's done an okay job.

If you're unhappy with Henning, deal with Henning.  Don't fire his boss.

He is the one who HIRED Henning. If Sparano can't make simple decisions like hiring quality assistants he will NEVER lead a team to the promise land.

And an OKAY job isn't good enough. Not when the Fins charge what they charge for ticket prices and not when Ross pays what he pays on payroll.  If OKAY is good enough, why pay Dansby or Marshall. We were OKAY without them. And we are just OKAY with them!

Yes, them losing their week 14 superbowl by 42 points was a factor.  


I was underwhelmed by the play calling selection of the Jets.  

No he didn't.  Bill Parcells did. 

MikeO, please try to consolidate your posts into one.  You can quote multiple authors, multiple times within the same post.  Thanks.

--The Management

Of course it's up for debate.  If it's not up for debate, what are you doing here?  This is a place for debate.  That's what a forum is for.

So we have a puppet has a head coach. Another reason to let him go, clean house and get a MAN to do a MAN's job! No more boys.

So you think Sparano is a better coach than Cowher, Gruden, Fox, and Fisher! ha ha ha

ha ha ha ha ha...........HA HA HA!! ok! ha ha

I was equally underwhelmed with the play calling selection of the Dolphins.  I was screaming for the Dolphins to just run it 3 times and punt throughout the entire 4th quarter.  It was painfully obvious that Henne wasn't doing anything.  It was also equally obvious that Sanchez wasn't doing anything either.  So why give them any more time than absolutely necessary?  Just run the ball 3 times and punt and take as much time off the clock as possible.  I think the Dolphins gave the Jets at LEAST 1 more possession and possibly 2 in the 4th quarter by trying to pass the ball.  IDIOTS!!  They were fortunate that Sanchez couldn't take advantage.

In the 4th quarter of a game where the conditions were obviously effecting the passing game of both teams and not just the QB's, both teams had several WR drops including a sure TD pass dropped, the Dolphins had the following play selections:

Brown run for 3 yards.  (Not a bad start especially in these conditions.  Keep it up!)
Brown attempts a pass to Marshall that he bobbles and it was nearly intercepted.  (Dumb.)
Henne throws incomplete.
Punt.

Williams runs for 4 yards.  (Again.  Good start.  Keep running it!)
Henne attempts a pass and is sacked for 6 yards.  (DRIVE KILLER!!!!)
Henne throws incomplete.
Punt.

Williams runs for 3 yards. (Ok, there's no way they don't run the ball here, right?)
Williams runs for 4 yards.  (Finally!!!.  Hand it to Williams again and we have a 1st down!)
Henne attempts to pass and is sacked for 2 yards.  (OMFG!!!!!)
Punt.

Yep, and Sparano has the HEAD COACH needs to step in there and OVERRULE his O.C. and get on the headset and take charge. Tell HIM what type of plays to call. Sparano doesn't though. That is another reason why he is in over his head as an NFL Head Coach

So your answer to my question is actually  "No, but I can throw some diversionary crap out there about their resumes to avoid admitting that I can't predict the future."

I never said that.  I just said that it's up for debate.

Seriously, what do you get out of a forum?  If you're just here to tell us what you think, and not share ideas, what's the point?

I think he is using the Chewbacca defense.

By that logic EVERYTHING is up for debate. The earth is flat....we know it isn't. But I guess its up for debate.

Saying Sparano is a better coach than Cowher, Gruden, Fox, and Fisher. We know it isn't true but I guess its up for debate.

There is RIGHT and WRONG! Some things are flat out WRONG and while "technically" can be up fro debate. There really is no debate.

Who is a better NFL head coach, Bill Belichick or Cam Cameron? Is that up for debate? Because thats how silly it is comparing Sparano to the likes of Fisher, Fox, Cowher, and Gruden!!!!

You said that "any of those 4 make our team better."

I never said that Sparano was better than them.  But, I don't think that we're a better team today if we have Gruden coaching us.  I'm willing to bet that you'll find many people on here that agree with me.

I would PREFER to have Sparano coaching the Dolphins next year, over Jon Gruden or John Fox.

I might be wrong, but I certainly think it's up for debate.  If you aren't interested in that debate, get lost.

Just because you might have numbers on this board that agree with you doesn't make you right.. YOu were all dead wrong about Jason Allen and I was alone on that. I was proven right there. Replace Sparano with any of the 4 other coaches mentioned we are at least 1-2 games better.  Coaching matters.

L

No, but it does make it a debate, doesn't it?  (Which is why we're here.)  If you just want to hear yourself talk, I don't think a web forum is the best place for you.

Don't trip getting off your soap box.  ;)

Consider taking your own advice.

...no winking emoticon forthcoming.

You have some man-crush on me. All you do is respond to what I post. All you do is de-rail threads in weak attempts to attack me. You got a crazy man-crush on me. It's so sad. Very Very Sad!

Would you stop with the Jason Allen thing already?  You have to bring that up in almost every thread, and it's getting old.  It is your OPINION that Jason Allen sucks.  It's my OPINION that Jason Allen is average.  There is no right or wrong here, even if we ended up cutting him.

I would also keep Sparano over Gruden or Fox and would add that I'd keep him over Fisher as well.  I really don't think Fox is a good coach.  .511 winning percentage?  Pathetic.  Sparano has a .566.  Yup, that's better than Fox.  Gruden has a .540.  Yup, Sparano has a better winning percentage than Gruden too.  Jeff fisher has a .544.  Hmm, Sparano is better yet again.  Cowher is the only one out the four with a better winning percentage (.623), so I could see an argument for him, but I don't agree with it. 

I think we have to give Sparano more than 3 years to prove himself.  If owners didn't give these other coaches a chance and were impatient with them, then they wouldn't have the accolades they have right now. Gruden was 8-8 his first two years before making the playoffs. 

Fox is as inconsistent as it gets.  2002 missed the playoffs, 2003 made the playoffs, 2004 missed the playoffs, 2005 made the playoffs, 2006 missed the playoffs, 2007 missed the playoffs, 2008 made the playoffs, 2009 missed, 2010 worst record in football.

As far as Fisher goes, he didn't make the playoffs until his SIXTH YEAR COACHING!  Imagine if he did that in Miami?  He would have been gone a long time ago.

I think we definitely need to give Sparano some more time.

There is a right or wrong, HE WAS CUT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON FROM AN AVERAGE TEAM! That's proof enough.  He was cut for Al friggin Harris. And the ONLY team that wanted him was teh team with one of the 5 worst defenses in the NFL, if not the worst.

The team maybe average (although their record right now shows they are above average), but the defense is not.  They rank 5th overall and 6th against the pass.  I can see an average defender, like Allen, being cut when defensive stats are that good.  As far as being cut for Al Harris, he has shown brilliance in the past and is a solid veteran when healthy.  I think the front office was thinking Harris was an up grade, and, unfortunately, missed their shot with him when he got hurt. 

Regardless, this isn't a debate about Jason Allen, it's about Sparano and possible coaches that may or may not replace him, so I'll be looking forward to your answer regarding the rest of my previous post, and not be responding to anymore Jason Allen talk.

I've actually lobbied to have your obnoxious ass booted from the site...there's your man-crush, you fucking tool.

And I reply to lots of people's posts...you're just such a complete sociopath that the rest of my posts don't register.

No Mike you are the one who derails the threads.  This one was going well until you returned. 

Go back and read the back and forth between me and Pappy.  We disagree but we have a respectable conversation.  Then compare that to the crap you spew. 

Real Mature! Can't disagree or have a civil debate with someone..... so lets BAN HIM! lol

Once again. NO. I added my opinon in a respectful way until "someone" started in with "it not sinking in yet".....because I didn't agree with the majority.

Go back and re-read the thread from PAGE 1 of this thread. And it is clear WHO and WHEN this thread got de-railed. And bro,.....it wasn't me!

Yup, standard procedure at most boards....if you a poster won't engage in a civil debate they get banned. 

Which means no cursing. No attacking people for their views. Stating an opinion and dismissing someone elses isn't any violation of anything.

Its a sad state of affairs when some people just can't "agree to disagree".

This is my attempt to save this thread.  MikeO or whoever, respond to the above quote.  I put some work into looking up the stats, so I'd like an alternate opinion to it, especially from MikeO because it opposes his opinion.  Can we discuss it instead of saying back and forth who derailed what?

All 4 of those guys have been to the Super Bowl. Gruden and Cowher won one. Fox was damn close to beating the Pats in the SB. Fisher was 1 yard away from taking the SB to overtime against one of the great offensive teams in the NFL of all time. These guys have proven track records. Have won big post-season games.

Winning percentages don't tell the whole story. Those 4 guys have coached far longer than 3 years so of course their winning percentage will be lower, they have coached far more games. Every coach will have a bad season or two when they have coached for near a decade or so. So you gotta step back and look at the big picture and a guys entire resume.

Sparano can't win home games. I have no faith he will ever win a postseason game. I mean if you can't win on your homefield, thats not a good sign. And in Sparano's 3 years in the NFL his teams seem to be getting worse. Look at the other coaches who were hired around the same time as Sparano. Mike Smith, division titles, playoffs, best record in the NFC this year. Mike Tomlin, SUPER BOWL champ,  Rex Ryan, 2 playoff apperances (counting this year their going) and an AFC Championship game apperance. And Atlanta and the Jets were just as bad as Miami was when they took over. Sparano can't even COMPARE to those guys. Let alone Gruden, Fisher, Cowher, and Fox!

Isn't your biggest beef with Sparano that he hasn't won enough games.  I happen to be a big believer in the Parcells approach...you are what your record says you are.  Sparano has better record than three of the coaches you listed.


While I have not done a complete statistical breakdown.  Based on my eyeballing win % and number of games coached there seems to be a very strong correlation between the two and the longer you coach the higher the win %.  Not saying that is cause and affect (actually I think it is the reverse) but your "so of course" completely misses the mark.

However, more years do mean more chances to make the playoffs. 


This is true.  You need to look at the big picture.  And one aspect of the big picture is that very rarely do coaches start out by winning the SB there first three years as a head coach.  Shula didn't Belichick didn't.  Gruden only had one winning season of his first three.  Fox only had one winning season of his first three.  Fisher had no winning seasons of his first three. 


The Dolphins have struggled at home this year.  However, the Titans game disproves that statement. 


Its not about what you have faith in.  I have no faith you will ever write a post based on facts and not just what your gut tells you.    I am pretty sure Sunstroke has the same lack of faith. 


Relevancy?  But he is a hell of a road coach to make up for it.  Maybe the Dolphins should get co-head coaches.  Sparano can coach on the road.  Someone else at home.   ::)  Or build a flimsy dome have it colpse and play ALL 16 games on the road. The Dolphins will go undefeated.   ::) While division games matter more, home games don't matter more than road games.  A win is a win, a loss is a loss.  Both the Pats and Fins are 1-1 vs the Jets.  Zero relevancy that NE got their win at home and Fins got there on the road.   

Unless the next three games are 0-3 he will have a better record this year than last.  He won't have a worse record.


As you are including coaches hired the same year as Sparano or with in a year...here are some of his other peers Mangini, Childress, Linehane, Marinelli, Kiffin, Zorn, Cable, Morris, Schwartz, Spagnuolo. 

Sparano can't compare with those guys either.  And with the exception of Schwartz all of them inherited a team that was better than the one Sparano inherited.  (Based on the only real measure used in the NFL and the one you constantly site W-L).

^^^nice factual post!!

Wow. That is easily the most ridiculous thing ever posted here.

John Fox's first 3 years with the Panthers:

CAR 2002 7 9 0 .438 4th in NFC South - - - -
CAR 2003 11 5 0 .688 1st in NFC South
CAR 2004 7 9 0 .438 3rd in NFC South


Granted, his second season was a Super Bowl loss, I'm sure you would have been calling for his head at this point in the third season, calling it a Super Bowl hangover and bla bla bla. much like you are with Sparano...and by the way, Fox is 1-11 now. Not to mention the fact at the end of this season, Sparano will have more wins than Fox at that point.

I was going to post a rebuttal to MikeO's post, but Hoodie pretty much pointed out everything I was going to post.  Good job Hoodie.

You guys all must be related to Sparano or something. Giving this guy so much praise for him accomplishing nothing. It's comical the guys you are comparing him too.

Once again (just like with Jason Allen) you can't see the forest from the trees.  You are blinded by your "homerism" when it comes to this team.

We will see at the end of this year. Cause either Sparano gets an extension. Or he gets fired. Ross knows bringing Sparano back as a lame duck coach with no extension is a recipe for disaster.

I don't think we'd be doing ourselves any good to let Sparano go. 

A big clue as to what Sparano's future will be (aside from winning in these final games)

I know technically these final 2 HOME games are "sold out". But lets see how many people actually show up. If the stadium is half empty, thats not good for Tony.

Playing games in front of a half-empty stadium. Where people aren't at the games spending money which in turn makes Ross money. Not a good thing for Sparano!

I give Sparano praise for getting us to the playoffs his first year and winning the division.  That's a great accomplishment.  I give him no praise for the following year, as it was a set back, but was expected.  This year, There is a possibility that we finish 10-6 and may have a slight chance of getting into the playoffs.  Anyway you look at it, there is a small possibility we finish 7-9 like last year.  More than likely we finish 9-7 or 10-6 and miss the playoffs.  That is an improvement from the year prior, so I believe it warrants at least another year.

As far as you saying "he hires the assistants, and since we've already gotten rid of a d-coordinator, a ST coach and, after this year, a offensive coach, I point to Raheem Morris of the Bucs.  His first year, he did the same thing.  His team is playing pretty damn good football for how young they are...just a little younger than the team we have currently.  I'm not saying Sparano is great, even though all the other coaches have all their accolades, I'm just saying we need to give Sparano a chance to get his.  He's a young head coach.  He's going to make mistakes, all young coaches do.  Next year is make or break for him in my opinion, but I think we have to give him that next year.  3 years just isn't enough.  Let our young guys develop a little more.

I think fans sometime put too much thought into stuff.  Bringing up Chemistry, "having the lockerroom", developing young guys...etc. Owners care about 2 things "R & R". Results and Revenue!! As long as the team is winning and there is a fanny every 18 inches on Sunday's in their stadium, the head coach is safe.

When your not winning and the stadium is half emtpy, the Head Coach should start getting nervous.

If Sparano wins out and we win 10 games (playoffs or not), he's safe. That's reality!!!! That doesn't mean  Sparano will ever win us a Super Bowl (which is the ultimate goal) because I don't see him on that level as a head coach. It just means he did enough to warrant NOT getting fired this year. If we end up with 8 or 9 wins, in my opinion that isn't enough. Going from 7 wins, spending a boat load of money on Dansby and Marshall isn't good enough and shouldn't be good enough. If those 2 players only mean we are 1 or 2 wins better then something is seriously wrong!

Win out and this isn't even a topic of debate. Sparano stays. If he doesn't win out he should be fired. I think the best thing Sprano has going for him is the lockout. If there is a lockout no owner will want to hire a coach , a big-time coach who will be doing nothing as the league is in a stand-still for weeks and/or months

Let's separate the issues.  Are we discussing:

1) If Sparano ought be fired?

-Or-

2) Predict what Ross will do. 

Two separate discussions.  I am discussing #1.  As for #2 - I have no fucking clue. 

How many fans are going to show up for a game between a team that barely has playoff hopes with a fickle fan base that barely shows up when the team is doing well vs. a team that is completely out of it and has probably the worst traveling fan base on X-mas week is not a measure of the coach.  Granted coach's popularity could be a factor in Ross's decision. 

BTW - Yesterday there was over 800 tickets on ticket exchange for the Pats-Pack game.  Two teams are either in the playoffs or is very much in the hunt.  Most weeks a ticket on Pats ticket exchange has a life expectancy of 30 seconds.  Its X mas week.  Don't read too much into attendance rates.   


I am absolutely certain you never put enough thought into your posts. 


This where the expression "That's why the fans don't run the team from" comes from.  If fans like you ran the team,  the team would have a new coach every year and a new QB every game. 


Maybe, maybe not.  Neither you nor I, know what Ross's plans or criteria is for retaining Sparono.  That's reality!  Extra punctuation does not make your case stronger. 


I bet you didn't (or wouldn't have) seen Belichick "on that level as a head coach" after three years in Cleveland. 


Getting wins is difficult in the NFL.  If upgrading two players gets you two wins, you are doing damn good. 


Either way the question of "what will Ross do?" ends on the Monday or Tuesday after the Patriots game.  If he should have been fired will rage on all off-season, either way. 
 

There is actually there is a more compelling reason not to change coaches this year.  Decent odds that even if the season remains intact some OTAs, off season workouts and training camp will be canceled or greatly condensed.  This is not the year to introduce a new offensive or defensive system. 

OK I know this is a derailment but I just can't help it under the situation. It's just funny to me that a Patriot's fan is defending a Dolphin's coach to another Dolphin's fan. Not that I disagree with you Hoodie ... it just cracks me up!!!

OK back to the thread!!!

I should have also mentioned that blind homerism is not a factor in my analysis of Sparono.  I actually want Ross to fire Sparano.  Another two years of upheaval in Miami benefits my team. 

Another good analysis by Hoodie a couple posts back, you saved me from making a bunch of comments.

I really can't remember a single post that was heaping "praise" on Sparano.  Most of the posts I read just seem to think he is doing a decent enough job to keep his job.  Just as you don't feel Sparano guarantees the Fins a Super Bowl, no coach we bring in can guarantee that.  There are less than five coaches that could be brought in that MAY be an improvement over Sparano, and they would be difficult to get.  Then if you do bring in a new coach it's a tumltuous situation in the locker room with players coming and going, and it pushes the rebuild another two years out.  I believe Sparano deserves another year, perhaps you will be proven right, perhaps not, but I think keeping Sparano is the best move for the Fins.

P.S. Disclaimer: I am in no way related to Sparano

Of course a Pats fan wants Miami to have a crappy coach! Not that shocking!!  ::)

Not when those 2 players are gonna tie up  a huge chunk of your salary cap!!!

As I stated I want Ross to fire Saprono.  I would also like the Dolphins to cut Henne.  But most importantly I want the Dolphins to use their next years first round draft pick to trade up in the first round to select the best available long snapper. 

But I can articulate why all three would not be a good idea for the Dolphins franchise. 

You can't respond to my analysis based on logic, so you're only retort is that I am trying to convince the Dolphins to make a foolish move.  Dismissing that majority of Dolphins agree with my logic.  And completely ignoring that what we say here is not going to affect the actual decision.  As if I am using this forum to convince Ross to make foolish moves.

the last 3 games will tell Sparano's fate. If we go 1-2 or 0-3 there is NO reason to bring him back. Period.

And I have responded to you numerous times with logic, we just don't agree on this issue! You clearly can't just agree to disagree and move on

sounds like you are actually willing to let the entire season play out. progress!  ;D

9 or 10 wins with piss poor qb play, and a mash unit of a football team would be a pretty miraculous feat.

what mash unit? Seriously. The COLTS have a mash unit. The Dolphins losing Vernon Carey and Brian Hartline for the season in mid December when the season was already OVER hardly is a mash unit. Every team has injuries. Miami has been lucky in the injury department this year.  I think the biggest loss up until those two was Jared Odrick who was an unproven rookie.

This is Mike O's modus operandi. If people here do not agree with his opinions, then you are obviously somehow in love with the player/coach he is pissed off at.

and once again you take the thread off topic and make the thread about me!   ::)

No its an agreement that


Is an utterly moronic statement that could only be written by a blithering idiot. 

Its not about you its about your statement.   

blah blah blah....once again you resort to NAMECALLING and can't just talk football. You get really worked up over internet "drama".

Grow up

Shannon Sharpe on CBS said if Miami doesn't win 2 out of the final 3 he believes Sparano and Henne won't be back next year.

Don't know who or what Sharpe knows, unless the guy who sits 2 seats to his right tipped him off to some inside info because he didn't want to be the messenger when it comes to the Fins.

We lost to the F-ING Bills today enough is enough this team is horribly coached there is no arguing that! Chan Gaily beat us today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lost to the BROWNS and BILLS at home in December with the season on the line. Sparano has to go. No excuse for that. It's the Browns and Bills

Sparano has never shown that he can coach this team. He is more mouth than action. He has got to go.

Yep!

He is in over his head with this job.

This is pretty much what I figured.  Outplayed by a less talented team in our own stadium.  Sparano doesn't know how to turn it around.  Giving him another year will only mean another year wasted.  I understand everyone's reluctance toward bringing in another new head coach, but I'm of the opinion that your head coach is just as important as your QB.  We aren't looking for a "decent" head coach, we're looking for a franchise head coach.  I don't believe that's Tony Sparano. 

Besides that, it's going to be MUCH easier to find a new head coach then it is to find a new QB.  I don't know for sure the next head coach will be a "franchise" head coach either, but we need to keep on trying and not settling for a "game manager" which is all that Sparano is.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Not wrong at all. You are 100% correct. Bringing him back and expecting a different outcome would be foolish. We will be another 7,8, or 9 win team next year. Out of the playoffs. And just be "BLAH" as a franchise.

Time for a Change! Time for Cowher, Gruden, Harbaugh....WHOEVER! Hell, even Mike Nolan. Just anyone NOT named Tony Sparano!!!!

That's what I thought.  I gave you 2 chances Tony and you failed.  2 chances to prove me wrong and you couldn't do it.  Another late season total collapse, just like last year.  Another shot at the playoffs wasted because you can't even beat mediocre teams when it counts.

I just hope that Ross doesn't screw around and fires you as soon as the season is over so that all the fans dreading looking for a new head coach can get over it and we can all get back to the business of searching for greatness rather than fearing failure.