The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

StL's comment about push-up bras reminded me of an experience in college.  I wonder if anyone ever had anything similar happen. 

This girl I dated in college.  I had known her as a friend since we were Freshmen we were now juniors. When I first started dating her a bunch of her ex-s who were friends of mine warned me she was a flirt and a tease.  She will seduce you but the second you start making a move she will slap you down.

Nice girl.  Not super hot, but attractive enough.  Appeared to be large B or small C in cup size. 

After we for dinner and a movie I walk her back to her dorm room on Friday night and she asks me in and mentions her roommate went home for the weekend.  I go in.  Sitting on her dresser is a box of condoms in plain view with no effort to be hidden. 

We start to make out after a while I start to unbutton her blouse.  Before I even have the first button undone she pushes my hand away and rebukes me.  I apologize for going too fast and we return to making out.  A little while later I try again.  Same result.  A bit later she mentions she is a virgin and can't wait for her first time.  I take this a hint that she is now ready for me to start unbuttoning her shirt.  Same result. 

I get up and announce I am going back to my dorm room. She begs me to stay.  I stay.  I try again.  I get stopped again before the first button.  I get up to leave she begs me to stay.  I leave.

Next day I see her at brunch she apologizes our date went bad.  And we should try again.  I agree hoping for better results.  I figured maybe she is just playing hard to get and I continue to unbutton her blouse after she pushes my hand away.  She turns quite forceful and defends herself as if I am trying to rape her.  She ain't just playing hard to get she absolutely doesn't want me to unbutton her shirt.  I go to leave.  She asks me to stay.  I leave anyway. 

I then see her in the caf for dinner.  She asks me if I am mad at her.  I tell not really mad but tell her she is an annoying tease.   She apologizes and says we should try again.  I decline.  She insists.  I agree hoping maybe the third try would be a charm.  Figuring maybe it is just nervousness about it being her first time. 

Well, it starts off about the same.  Eventually, I have had it.  I shout, "you are a fucking nut case  You tell me you want to have sex, but every time I go to unbutton one button you stop me."

She blurts out in tears, "well I don't want you to unbutton my shirt, but you can take off my pants" 

So I remove her lower clothing, I get naked and we do the deed with her still wearing her shirt and bra.  She was truthful about being a virgin. I spend the night.  She never removes her top.

After several different dates all with her keeping her top on, I decide to push the issue. She is very defensive.  I insist in wanting to know why.  She starts crying and says I am going to break up with her when I find out.  I assure her I am not and conclude she probably had breast cancer or something serious.  I tell her it will be okay.  She tells me she is flat chested and mosquito bites are bigger than her breasts. I tell her that it is okay. 

I gently coax her into removing her shirt then bra.  Her bra is filled with foam and she was right -- she was totally flat. 

She hadn't had many dates in high school and blamed it on her lack of breasts so she decided that she would wear a padded bra in college so she would attract more boys. 

And it did work to an extent.  According to her she had dates with 20 guys before me she is certain she would not have had that many if it was not for the padded bra.  But all 20 ended the same way...with the guy breaking up with her over the mixed signals of wanting sex but her not letting them remove her shirt.  I was the first one she told to go for the pants instead.  And that was only because I gave it more of a go than most boys who broke up quicker.  What guy would try to remove a girls pants if she wouldn't let him touch her shirt?

What the hell was she thinking?  What is the point of attracting guys who only like big breasted women, if you ain't got them.   At some point you have to let them know the truth.  If the breasts do matter then what was the point in wasting both your time.  If the guy doesn't really care (such as me) what do you gain with the lie? You can still attract him without them.   Eventually we broke up for reasons totally unrelated to breast size.

Anybody ever deal with similar type of fake breasted women? 

Sounds like a case of low self esteem to me.

Word.

Sounds like she felt like she wasn't attracting guys because of her breasts (or lack thereof), but in reality it was probably because she's got self-image issues and lacks confidence.

I had a similar experience but I knew the girl for quite some time and knew what to expect. When I stayed with her the first time she broke out some really hot lingerie, that she kept on.

This is college right?  Why didn't she just get a breast augmentation?  I know they can be expensive, so that might have been the issue, but if this girl was really having this much of an issue with it, sounds like it would be well worth it.  From my understanding this procedure is really common these days and most girls don't really need it.  It's not really that painful and the results can be great.

My daughter had just the opposite problem in High School, she was a bit on the heavy side and her breasts were rather large and actually caused her discomfort in her back and she considered getting a reduction.  My wife and I both said we would pay to have the procedure done if she wanted it.  She never did have it done, ended up losing a lot of weight which helped and it's not really an issue today, but I can't imagine a parent not wanting to help with something like that.

And while I agree there might be a bit of a self esteem problem here, this goes way beyond vanity in my opinion.  If she really was that flat, it would impact her ability to have a relationship with guys.  There's no reason to let something like that be an issue.  There's enough issues that young women have to deal with without having something like this to deal with too.

I dated a girl my senior year of HS who was pretty self-conscious about her "breast imperfection," though it had nothing to do with size. She just had a funky shaped left nipple, or rather, the areola around the nipple. It wasn't so much that the nipple was shaped weird, just that she had a birthmark the same color as her nipple that actually connected with it, making it look like the nipple was actually stretching an inch or so toward her sternum. When she told me about it, prior to her taking her top off the first time, I told her that it didn't matter to me at all, and then I told her about my triangular scar on the head of my johnson (self inflicted).  Once she realized that I truly didn't care about the nipple imperfection, and wasn't perfect myself, she wanted to take her shirt off pretty much every time we were together.


This is the part of the story that rings my "excuse me?" alarm... She dated 20 guys before you, and it wasn't until the 21st (you) before either she or the guy she's with figured out the "leave the top on, take the bottom off" approach?

As the president of the Itty Bitty Titty Committee, it does not affect your relationship with guys. Trust.

^^^ For the girl in this example it did apparently.

She sounds young and inexperienced. Hopefully she grew out of it.

So what do you recommend?  Padded bra or not? 

I do know a lot of guys that like the very lean looking girl with practically nothing up top, but is there anything wrong with enhancing your curves just a bit?

I wear whatever works for my outfit. Also...it's really, really hard to find bras that aren't padded in certain sizes.

I have no issues with enhancing your curves a bit, but there's a big difference between a push-up bra and undergoing surgery.

I don't know why girls are so stupid.  I would much rather have a girl with a tight body with a cups than a girl with c or d cups because she has a gut on her.

Not all of us are stupid. I figured that out ages ago.

Is there?  The surgery is really pretty simple.  A couple of very tiny incisions that heal very quickly.  There's very little risk involved.  There is the cost factor which is big, but if it enchances your overall self-esteem, what's the problem?  There are a ton of women who have the surgery done just to enhance what they already have a bit, I don't see what the harm is for this girl who obviously had a bigger issue with it. 

I'm friends with a nearly 50 year old woman who just had it done because she recently got divorced and was starting to date again.  She was absolutely overjoyed with the results.  She also lost some weight, had her hair style changed, etc.  The procedure is pretty common now.

Now I'm not saying it's for everyone and I'm not saying that if you're against surgery or if you like the way you look that you should go have it done anyway, I'm not advocating that at all.  But if it's a problem, I don't really see what the harm is in having a bit of minor surgery to make you feel better about yourself.

That struck me as odd too.  

Not the guys.  I would never try to take off a girls pants who had flat out denied access to the shirt for fear of an attempted rape charge.  

As for her.  I think it was part of the overall self esteem issues she had.  And it part had to do with she for a while may have been more interested in just having guys wanting to have sex with her than her actually wanting to go all the way.  Plus I never saw her naked when the room was fully lighted.  Only with just the equivalent of a night light, the few times we had sex during the day she took off her pants under a blanket.  Saying she had body-acceptance/ self-esteem issues is more of an understatement than saying the population of NYC is larger than 6.  

I think up until me she may have feared being discovered as flat was a greater concern than the desire for sex. I don't even think the number one reason for her telling me to take off her pants was she wanted sex but just not wanting to be dumped for the 21st time.  

The one thing she absolutely begged of me when we broke up was that I keep my promise not to tell anyone of her "major flaw" (her term, not mine).  


That was part of it.  


This was the larger issue.  Her parents wouldn't even let her wear a padded bra let alone help pay for breast augmentation.  In high school she tried to slowly grow her breast from flat to a size she liked by starting with a small padded bra and planned to progressive go larger so it would seem natural.  When her parents found out that she was not in fact having a growth spurt, they took away her bras and sent her to a counselor to help her with self esteem and body acceptance issues.  Going back to high school and facing her friends once again completely flat after two weeks of having small boobs did absolutely nothing to help her self esteem issues.  Particularly when a couple of boys questioned her on it.   

She had chosen this college which was pretty far from home because nobody from her hometown attended it.  So she could wear her padded bra at school and return to be being flat chested at home.  Her parents were paying for most of her college so telling them to eff off wasn't really an option.  

When one person from her high school enrolled the following year she begged him to keep her secret.  He agreed to but told her she was nuts and that plenty of guys prefer small breasted/ flat women including himself.  She thank him for being so polite but flat out didn't believe him and was convinced he was lying about that just to be nice.  Which really goes to show how much of a problem she had.  He dated only flat/small women.   Yet she didn't believe him when he told her he thought she was much more attractive in high school without the ugly lumps then she had now.  And still didn't when I pointed out to her that of the three girls he dated in college two were totally flat and the other one was AA.  

She did get augmentation once she graduated college.  Her parents thought it was a foolish waste of money but did finally grow to accept how important it was to her.  We hadn't stay much in touch after college, but about two or three years after we graduated I got a letter and some photos.  She celebrated paying off her last installment on the boob job by going to a professional photographer and doing a topless photo shoot.   The boobs looked good and I had never seen smile so wide and pretty as she did in those photos.  

I don't care about women getting fake boobs. That's their business and I know women that have had it done. However, to say that a boob job is a "bit of minor surgery" is wrong. You're going under the knife and being placed under anesthesia which is always risky. You're also adding a completely foreign substance to your body. That's way different than getting a $20 push up bra.

I just don't understand parents like that.  They caused her far more pain then if they would have just understood that it was important for her.  I'm glad they finally came around after she had it done, but they could have saved her a lot of grief.

Yes as a society I recognize that we put to much emphasis on looks, but it's a fact of life.  Trying to deny that we do is just burying your head in the sand which doesn't help either.

Danger, Will Robinson, Danger!

There are a lot of areas in society where we silly carbon-based monkeys are pretty screwed up, and the overemphasis we put on physical appearances is just one of them. Filing the bad things away as "facts of life" inevitably leads to "not attempting to change it" though.

Well I'm no expert on the subject, but the type of anesthesia you are given varies.  You don't have to be given a general, you can be given a local which is no different then getting a local at a dentist.  And as far as I know there's no evidence that implants are bad for your health.  Depending on the type you get, even if they rupture, it's not really considered harmful although you would probably have to have a second surgery to correct the problem.  Infection is a slight risk, but can usually be handled with antibiotics.

The procedure has changed considerably in the last 20 years.  It's about as minor of surgery you can have.  Yes, it's still surgery and there are always risks, but complications are very rare.

Apparently she eventually had it done and was quite proud of the results.  I just don't see the big deal.

And there are times when the cure is worse than the disease.  Telling your daughter she needs counseling to deal with body issues because she wants to wear a padded bra is probably one of the reasons that she had such a self-esteem problem in the first place.  My gut tells me if they would have let her just do it, she probably would have eventually realized that it wasn't such a big deal after all and wouldn't have had the problems that she did.  Maybe not, but still I don't think they were helping, I think they were making it worse.

Surgery is surgery and there are always risks. Period. That's a bit different from a padded bra.

Or maybe if the parents and her friends had just let her know through positive reinforcement as she was growing up that "small breasts are OK," and "what's inside is much more important," she'd have no need for a padded bra, augmentation or a mental health counselor.

I get where you're coming from, Pappy, I really do, and have enough behavioral psych credits to appreciate it...but it still aggravates the bejabbers out of me.

I'd rather have a woman with a bit of a gut and some curves up top (and preferably below) than a flat-chested stick figure.  But that's me.

Her parents thought it was a self esteem problem and tried to help her with that .  I would have done the same, except I would not have taken away the  padded bras.  Once she was  done growing (which is generally at 25 years of age) and  still wanted it done, I would give my blessing.

I know women who have had augmentations.  It takes weeks of healing.  It's not just wake up and you're fine.  Implants can move, leak and cause painful scar tissue to develop (these have all happened to people I personally know).  There may be other complications I am not aware of.  It is not a decision to be taken lightly, but it is a personal one.  If it will help you feel better about yourself, go right ahead.  It sounds like the physical change did the trick for the girl in question here, but it does not work like that for everyone.

I know one girl who did the reduction surgery.  She could not wait to get it done.  She hated men looking at her chest and ignoring her.  That kind of surgery was way worse than the enhancement.  I shudder to think about it.

Personally, I don't want to have any kind of surgery unless it's absolutely necessary.  My small chest did bother me when I was younger but I learned to accept my body "as is".

I have mixed views.  I was happy to see her smiling in those photos. And her parents certainly could have done things better. But I actually agree with her parents on what she really needed was to come to terms with accepting who she was instead of getting fake boobs.

I started going bald in high school, on at least a dozen occasions my parents have offered to pay for me to get hair replacement. Each time I have turned them down.  If you are so shallow that my hairline matters, I don't want to be your friend anyway.  

I graduated college in 1989. 

I have to agree on the 25 years to be done growing. I was TINY in high school. I finally filled out a bit by the time I was around 23. Still small chested, but bigger than I was in high school.

I have to ask and don't take this the wrong way, but do you have kids?  I ask because I honestly believe that having kids and being a parent changes your views on things.  Sure, I wish we all lived in a world that didn't care what anyone thinks about how you look, but the reality of it is we don't.  We live in a world where kids learn at an early age about designer jeans, make-up, push-up bras etc.  There's a ton of pressure put on kids to fit in.  Combine that with the fact that kids are going through a ton of changes with their bodies, hormones and all that and you have one volatile cocktail brewing there.  I have lived through that with 5 kids now and I'll tell you it's not easy for the parents let alone the child.

Sometimes it's simply not enough to let them know that looks aren't all that important.  Sometimes you need to be there for them and support them by purchasing the designer clothes, helping them pick out the appropriate make-up and yeah maybe even getting a padded bra.  Building a solid relationship with your kids is every bit as important as teaching them values etc.  If your child doesn't view you as someone they can trust to help with the issues, they probably aren't going to be real accepting of your values.  You got to find some common ground and pick your battles.  You can worry about padded bras or you can worry about pregnancy, drug abuse and suicide.  Personally I'm more worried about those issues when it comes to my kids.

Maybe.  And maybe her parents just didn't want her to grow up and be a woman and be attractive to guys.  I know, that's a stretch, I'm just saying we don't really know what their motives were and I can't for the life of me believe that a padded bra issue is worthy of putting a kid into counseling over.

Well that's not been my experience.  When my wife and I were younger she had a friend that owned some property on a lake.  We would go out there at least a couple times a month in the summer to play sand volleyball, ride sea-do's etc.  We used to call it silicon valley, because I'd say about 95% of the women there had the surgery done.  Most of these women had money to burn just because of the people that lived around there, so the cost was no issue.  Now I really didn't know the women that well, but my wife did and my wife and I talk about EVERYTHING.  She talked with these women that had it done and we talked about what was said and that's when I came to the conclusion that I now hold, that it really isn't that big of a deal. In fact I usually was able to view the results of such surgeries (my wife isn't the jealous type).  This was within days or weeks of the surgery being performed in some cases and you could barely notice the incisions.

I already said it's not for everyone, but it really is a pretty minor procedure.  There can be complications, which usually requires another surgery to correct.  There are risks, but they rare.  It's not a decision I would make lightly either, but if that was the decision made, I would have no problem supporting it.

Good point.  It was a bigger issue in 1989.

I love breasts.

All sizes are welcome, apply within.

Pappy,

I think what you are missing wasn't just that she didn't like her body, but how completely delusional she was.  The boy from her high school liked flat chested women.  He flirted with her.  When he saw her back at home he would tell her she looked sexy and much hotter than she does at school. She didn't believe him.  

I told her it didn't matter to me.  She didn't believe me.  She told me that every males want Dolly Parton like women.  And when boys do date smaller breasted girls it is because all the better girls turned them down and they were just settling for what they could get.  

She really believed every single man wanted women with the maximum boob size.

Maybe the boob job was a good idea, maybe not.  But she definitely needed counseling.  

Pappy, I did not agree with her parents taking away her padded bras, but I did agree with them trying to help her self esteem first.  They probably hurt her self esteem by taking the bras away.

I am not saying every woman who has implants has trouble with them, but it can happen.  I stayed with someone the first few days after surgery and she was in a lot of pain.  Now she would tell you it wasn't bad because she was so drugged up she does not remember it.  I guess that was worse on those of us watching over her than it was on her.

I am in this category myself.

I dated a girl for a little over three years who was very small chested. She was self conscious about it even though I really did not care. She never believed it when truly it did not matter to me. After we broke up she decided to get implants and when the surgery was complete I was the first person she wanted to show. I am not quite sure as to why this was but I certainly was not going to turn it down. I told her they were nice but I preferred them naturally as I am not a fan of "fake tits". She still did not believe me but her attitude and outlook on herself improved ten fold. If that is what it takes to make someone feel better about themselves then so be it. To this day we are still great friends and she does finally realize that I prefer real small ones or any size for that matter over large fake ones. My wife is rather large chested and she has talked a lot about getting them reduced and I told her I support whatever she wants as the size makes no difference to me.

I'm not missing that fact, I'm just not sure which came first the chicken or the egg.  You only knew the girl as a Junior in college, after she already had issues.  She apparently confided in you that this has been an issue with her since she was in high school.  My question is was the whole issue blown WAY out of proportion by the parents and therefore made a bigger issue than it really was?  I don't think I've met a teenage girl that didn't have some issue with her looks.  Most kids as they become adults realize that it's pointless to be so preoccupied with their looks and it becomes a non-issue, but you can't tell a teenager that.  At that age, looks are so important to kids.  So did she have some deep seeded self esteem problem even before the whole padded bra issue or did she develop it when her parents forbid her to wear them?

I don't know the answer to that question, but in my opinion her parents didn't help her by sending her to counseling for it like she had some terrible problem.  A problem with self-esteem at that age is NORMAL.  As parents they should have recognized that fact and helped her deal with the issue rather than taking her for counseling.  It's not that I don't think counseling is useful, it is, but for MUCH more severe problems.  A padded bra is nothing to worry about.  It became an issue because the parents made it an issue in my humble opinion.

You see this all the time.  Parent who are so strict on their kids that they end up rebelling against them and end up having all kinds of problems.  My wife and I have always treated our kids as young adults.  They are going to make mistakes.  Your job is to teach them how to deal with those mistakes not prevent them from making them.  Forbidding her to wear the bra was the wrong approach.  Being supportive and trying to understand why she felt like she needed to wear a padded bra would have been a better approach.  Help her understand it's normal to have self-esteem issues and that she'll grow out of them.  Let her figure it out for herself, not treat her like she has a huge problem.

I realize that I may be way off base here, I'll admit that.  Perhaps she really did have this deep seeded problem with self esteem all along, I don't even know the girl, but it doesn't appear that way to me.  Her topless photos of herself sent to you with the big smile doesn't seem to indicate to me she had a self esteem issue.  Rational or not she seems to have had a problem with the size of her breasts.

Exactly.  That's all I'm trying to say.  The cure was worse than the disease.

I honestly don't care what size the breast is, as long as the nipple is strong enough to hang a suit jacket on without it falling on the floor.

As a card carrying fan of the itty bitty titty committee. I must say that there is no better breast than an A or B cup. Although, I did fornicate a couple times with a fully grown chick that had a chest like a 12 year old boy, that was weird as hell. She really did need some kind of artificial enhancement IMO, ha ha.

Boobs are boobs. The funny thing is how many men are plagued by the same issues over thier penis size ;)

You might be right. It is quite likely that her digging in her heels in her fights with her parents about the padded bra and her arguing with the counselor about what boys like and don't like made her blind to all evidence that not every boy is that way.  We get that here when folks are so convinced they must prove to the entire world they were right about a particular player or coach.  

I am not saying I agree with the taking away of her padded bra.  But I do agree with the idea it is better to learn to accept your body than modify it.  


I gained carnal knowledge of her as a junior in college.  I knew her since the second day of freshman orientation.

That made me think.  If a breast augmentation is no big deal, then what about a vasectomy?  How many of you guys just crossed your legs?

I'm gonna use you as an example here Badger, don't take it personally, has nothing to do with your personal thoughts on the subject.

So why is it ok for guys to believe that one or the other (large breasts or small breasts) are attractive and not women?  Why must a woman believe that no matter what size her breast she can be just as attractive?  Is a woman having small breasts and feeling unattractive and feeling that  she would be more attacticve with large breasts automatically a self-esteem problem?  Why?  It's not like that for guys.  Some guys like that.  Why can't some women like that too?  And if they happen to be small, why not make them bigger and feel more attractive?  I don't see the problem.

I had a vasectomy after my 5th child.  No big deal.  Played softball 2 days later.  Never even put ice on the suckers.  Not everyone is as lucky as me, but hey surgery is surgery, right? :)

Similar and different.  

For a girl the whole world know how big or how small they are.  For a boy it is a much more select group.  Plus breasts are used to attract the male.  Once the female learns the males size they are already pretty close to sealing the deal.  

But also the male's size does have a greater impact on the female's pleasure than the female size does on the male's.  

Size doesn't matter if you know how to use it.

A girl in college had a bumper sticker on her dorm wall, "It isn't the size of the stick, but the magic in wand."

If a woman finds larger breasts attractive, she should date a chick with large breasts!

If you feel unattractive due to your breast size, that is lack of self esteem.  Self esteem is being comfortable in your own skin.  If it makes you happy and feel better about yourself to do it, then by all means go ahead, but don't expect it to change your life.

So is having a procedure to correct male pattern baldness just a lack of self esteem? How about getting braces? Dyeing your hair? Using a tanning booth or laying out in the sun?  Painting your fingernails?  Jewelry?  Make-up?  Designer jeans?  Plucking your eyebrows?  Whitening your teeth?  Curling your hair or getting a perm?

Aren't these ALL essentially the same thing, merely changing our appearance to make ourselves feel more attractive? 

So basically ALL of us have low self esteem, not just the girl who wants a boob job.

Pretty much.  I rarely wear jewelry or makeup.  I could care less about designer clothing.  Tanning = skin cancer.  I believe that straightening teeth is not entirely cosmetic, but whitening is.  I do lighten my hair because it has gotten darker with age.  A lot of it is due to advertising and television, making us think that we need to live up to some ideal of attractive.  I am not saying everyone needs to be in therapy, but no one likes every aspect of themselves.  You have to go to more extremes to change some things.  I don't think we are understanding each other at all here, so I will just stop now.

There ya go. :)

^ Then can you agree that if you are so self conscience about your breasts that you leave your shirt on during sex that you have a pretty big issue?

Yes. :)

I may like A or B cups better. But that is my opinion of what I find attractive in some one else of the opposite sex. It seems different when you judge yourself like that.


That's what I'm talkin' bout. And bring the B cup girl too, I'm buying the drinks !!!


That would get old quick. After a couple times, either the shirt would have to go, or the crazy chick would have to go. Just sayin'

I have no problem, within reason, of procedures, be they braces or a nose job, to make you feel better about your appearance.

I think Pappy is right with his comparisons.

I think that either end of the spectrum is bad.  There are people who don't care what they look like to the point where they don't take care of their skin, bad hair, etc  -- they look bedraggled.  But there are also people who will never be happy with how they look, regardless of how many procedures they have.

To some extent I agree with your point.  But I would say some are more significant than others.  Subjecting your self the risk of sun cancer (tanning) or getting breast implants when ever night on the news they are talking about another study about their problems or news of another lawsuit is a bit different than using a curling iron. 

Plus there plenty of women for whom I have seen both with their makeup and without their makeup.  While I may be wrong, I doubt there was a single girl in my coed dorm who put on mascara at 4 am before walking down the hall to take a pee to avoid the possibility of a mortifying experience of someone knowing what she looked like without makeup.  No these girls wore makeup when they were going out on Friday night.  But let everyone see them in their natural state without embarrassment at Saturday morning brunch.   Likewise some of them may have worn a cleavage enhancing device on Friday night but then not the following morning. 

So I don't think it is a self esteem problem if you put on makeup for a date or for work etc.  But I would say a women who won't open the front door to get the morning newspaper without putting her makeup on first has a problem. 

That's my point. At some point you just get over it and love your body. (Honestly, I didn't do this until I filled out a bit and realized that men do not care as long as they have a hot, nude chick in their presence. Boobs in your face, are boobs in your face regardless of the size.)

I'm super petite. Have always been. We're talking size 2 on a good day but usually wear the infamous size 0. Not because I starve myself. I'm tiny.
Why would anyone expect my boobs to be large? While I'm curvy - but tiny - anything over a B cup would be really large on me.  I just find the expectation for all women to have big boobs unrealistic.

With that said, if a woman wants a boob job I don't care. Boobs are fun. Yay Boobs! But, I'm not going to let them rule my world.

I personally prefer a-b cups as well. My first wife was a barely a B. But for some reason, every other long term relationship I've had since was with c-d cups. lol

As for Hoodie's question, I think I would probably get tired of the games like the other guys she dated before him. I also wouldn't go for the pants if I was shot down at the shirt.

Of course don't let them rule your world. That's my job !!!!

Oh boy. This should be entertaining. ;)

I agree to some extent, but I also think this is a rationalization to some extent to help us cope with what we don't like to think about, we are all really pretty insecure.  Some are more than others, but it's just a matter of degree.

And don't forget what you yourself said in your first post:

In her mind her lack of getting dates in high school was because of the size of her breasts and wearing a padded bra fixed the problem.  We all keep telling her that she's wrong, but that's not been her experience.  I can certainly see why she would still believe it even though people were telling her it wasn't true.  Sure, we all know there are guys that prefer a small bra size, but what's the percentage?  If it's 20% of the male population, then she still has a very good point, that she's gonna have a much better chance of finding a guy that's attracted to her with a larger cup size.

I understand that, but perhaps this girl isn't like you.  Perhaps she's not a size 2 and a C cup would look great on her, but she's more like an A cup.  I think that it would be much more difficult for her to rationalize it than you can.  Guys with male pattern baldness go through surgery every bit as bad as a boob job to change it.  I've known guys that were short, 5' 6" or something and I'm telling you now if those guys could get surgery to be 6 foot, they would do it in a heartbeat.  The world is full of examples like this, yet somehow a woman who wants a boob job just has low self-esteem.  I don't buy it.

And I'll go one step further.  I think the reason we all think it's different is because it's her breasts.  We are all hung up on this because none of us want to admit that breast size really DOES matter.  It does.  Whether we choose to admit it or not.  It shouldn't, but it does.  Maybe not to everyone, but enough of us to matter.

Actually she was very petite and her fake boobs looked oversized for her body shape.  Not real obscene but definitely oversized.  Not as bad as she had originally planned -- double Ds.  Her sister-in-law and older brother were in on it from the beginning and her sister-in-law had talked her down.  The implants were smaller and looked more natural. 

The two of them were vital to making it work as her dad worked weekends and her brother or sister-in-law would volunteer pick her up and drop her off for vacations, beginning and end of semester etc.  Her parents only came for move-in of freshman year and she just prayed nobody would notice her changes and once to pick her up for Xmas break, but a fluffy down coat hit the fact her boobs were missing from anyone at college who might have seen her go from dorm room to car.

And then again for graduation, but by then they knew (not happy, but knew.) Week before Easter she got a very nice job offer (which she accepted) and when heard she was going to be starting make almost as much as her dad, mom asked "so what are you going to buy first?" She responded "boobs" and then told her what she had been doing for four years. 

Just how petite are we talking?  Double D's does sound a bit crazy, but are you saying that a C cup would have looked oversized for her?  I can't imagine a C cup looking oversized on anyone unless they are like Mary Lou Retton.  Retton is 4'8".

At what point do you think a person needs help. Have you never heard of body dysmoprhic disorder? This is also what drives anorexia. Or do those not exist.

Also, I would look horrible porny with a C cup.

When it starts effecting their health.  Anorexia is not healthy, people with it need help.  Fake boobs are not a health issue as a matter of course.  You can be perfectly healthy with fake boobs.

That's your opinion.

Of course it is all a matter of a opinion.....

She thought she would look best as a double D.
Her sister-in-law thought she would look most natural as a large A or small B.  As did her brother. (according to her)
The doctor who did the surgery after college though she would look best as an A and refused to go larger than a smallish B and she considered going to another doctor cause she wanted the same size as what she had been wearing in college or larger.  But in the end went with smallish Bs.  (according to the letter I got with the photos)
Her mom and dad though she looked perfect as she was. 
I told her she looked great flat chested, but truth is my opinion is I think she would have looked best as an A.
The boy from her high school thought she looked best flat. 

I think she was a little under 5' and around 90lbs or so. 

Or it could be that in college she flirted with anyone & everyone that pees standing up and in high school she was a wall flower.  (And that is not just pure speculation, while she never refereed to herself as a wall flower she did say she was quite shy in high school and didn't start become outgoing until college)

The boobs gave her the confidence.  The confidence is what got her the dates not the boobs. 

So where is the problem?  Her opinion is she needed bigger boobs.  When she had bigger boobs, she had more confidence even if they were fake which led to more dates which led to her being more happy.  Why is her opinion wrong?

You still know this girl?  You can tell her I got her back on this one. :)

I have huge tits.
Problem solved.

^^^ I saw on the forum home page that BoSoxGrl was the last to post in this thread, and my first thought was "Like she has ANY experience with small breasts!" ;D

true, but for the record i would have liked you regardless of boob size ;)

Twenty guys broke up with her over the unbuttoning of her shirt.  

We broke up because she went nuts when I opened the door at 3 am to go down the hall to pee and she was wearing a shirt but no bra and she fear that someone might see in and notice she was flat chested and then blab that to the rest of the campus.  She lived at the very end of the hall.  (that was the final straw, short answer is we broke up cause she was nuts)

The next guy she dated broke up with her because he felt deceived.  He said didn't have anything against flat chested women, but he didn't like liars.  He told her he was going to warn all his friends.  I convinced him not to.  But she stopped dating.

You don't see a problem?  

  
Nope.  I sent her a letter thanking her for the photos and wishing her luck.  Then about a year later I got a post card from her when she was vacationing somewhere (probably either Florida or Mexico I remember it had picture of a beach and it was winter for me at the time), she mentioned she had entered a wet tee shirt contest but didn't win.  That was the last contact.  

I'm not saying there wasn't a problem with that, I'm saying that WAS the problem.  I'm saying where is the problem with the solution being to get implants?  Why is that a problem?

I thought you said it didn't have anything to do with the size of her breasts?  Sounds like it didn't have anything to do with it for you, but it had a lot to do with it for her.

Actually this isn't that much different from why my first wife divorced me.  My first wife was extremely obsessive over her looks.  It would literally take her about 2 hours to go out of the house because she had to have everything just right.  Make-up, clothes, hair, everything.  I didn't mind really, but honestly I wouldn't have cared if she threw on an old sweatshirt.    That's not why we got divorced though, I would always wait patiently while she got ready. 

Why we got divorced is because then she insisted that I critique her before we left.  Do I look okay?  Is my hair ok?  Does this make me look fat?  ETC.  I would always say she looked great, but it didn't really seem to matter because it really didn't matter to me.  I would have said she looked great if she would have put on the old sweatshirt and I would have meant it and she knew it.  But she NEEDED me to be knocked out.  She NEEDED me to always tell her that she looked great.  She NEEDED me to fawn all over her constantly. 

Well I'm not like that.  I couldn't do it.  I couldn't be fake and tell her what she wanted to hear, because it wasn't me.  We got married very young and she was very insecure, much more insecure than I realized before getting married.  She needed me to constantly tell her how great she looked and I couldn't do it and eventually she resented me because of it.  I tried to tell her that it really didn't matter to me how she looked, but it mattered to her and because it mattered to her she wanted it to matter to me.  She wanted me to be impressed by the lengths that she went to get ready for me, but I just couldn't do it.

There were other reasons as well, I don't want to make it sound like that was the extent of the problems, but that was part of it.  A big part of it.  I'm just saying that I understand it.  I understand it because I was married to someone like that.  Was it a self-esteem problem?  I don't know, to me it was more of a 'young and dumb' problem.  Years later she apologized to me, she realized at some point the whole thing about her looks was silly, but what can you do?  It was important to her at the time.

/fail

I'm afraid I'm gonna have to ask for your "guy" card back. :)

I have a question for all of you.

Why do all the pictures of the Dolphins Cheerleaders that we have all been voting for include the upper torso of the woman?  How come they don't just show the face?  I wonder why that is?

On what grounds?  If it was not writing back -- I had enough of her nut case.  I was in a relationship at the time.  My GF was not thrilled with another woman sending me a post card discussing wet tee shirts.  I didn't need a pen pal.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Shoot...I want a second tournament to run with the pictures strictly "from the waist down." You guys can all admire the bees, but I'd prefer to check out the honey instead.

^Maybe we can just have photos of their behinds, and vote on who has the best butt. 

Boob size is as important as you make it out to be.  For some people it is a huge deal, others feel emphasis belongs in a different place.  If getting attention for the way you look is the only thing holding up your self esteem, then you have some things you need to work on.

And Hoodie wonders why a college age girl doesn't believe him when he says that breast size isn't important.

C'mon man! :)

Pappy -- Buddha doesn't visit any other sections.  She has no idea what you are taking about when you referred to the Cheerleaders.  She understands the topic of this thread.  But she hasn't seen those threads. 

Buddha - in the Dolphin main section there is several vote for the best cheerleader threads.   

Seriously?  I thought she was being sarcastic and doing a damn fine job of it.  Buddha, please tell me you were being sarcastic.

^ Nope, she does not visit any other section than this one.

^^ I'm still not convinced.  Even if she doesn't view the other threads, I specifically stated what we were voting on and based on the conversation in this thread, I would think she would have been able to draw the conclusion as to what I was talking about.  I don't think ya'll are giving her enough credit.

Buddha?

Nope. I really had no idea what you were talking about.

Buddha doesn't visit the other sections. Its true!

^^ Doh  :o

Pssst:  Buddha.  C'mere.  This is where you just say "Yeah I knew what y'all were talking about all along" and make both of us look good.  Damn, girl. :)

Nope. I'm only here to terrorize this corner.

And she has been here a long time, and still no one has been successful in making a football fan out of her!

You do a fine job of it, too! ;) 

Not going to happen.

I do my best.

I am strictly talking about self esteem issues. There are many men who fear that they are too small and women will not want them once they realize the size, just as many women fear men would reject them for having too small of breasts.
It has nothing to do with overall pleasuring of others but the ability to be comfortable enough in your own skin to become intimate with another person.