The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81f3719e/article/parcells-could-see-fins-taking-ryan-in-08-regrets-white-pick?module=HP_headlines

ya think!! So glad Parcells is gone!

Ryan cerrtainly is the most successful QB drafted in the last couple years, but I'm not going to be upset over the fact the Fins drafted a three time Pro Bowl selection.  No telling how successful Ryan would have been on the Fins with their coaching and O-Line.

Agreed, not to mention that Ryan wasn't really a slam dunk selection for the top of the draft. I remember there being a lot of doubts over whether or not he would've even amounted to anything in the NFL, let alone be a star. The hype for him was similar to the hype Jake Locker is getting now, only this year there are a lot more QB options pushing Jake to the middle of the draft instead of Top 3.

No regrets taking Long though.

Ah yes, the good old "who should we have drafted if we knew then what we know now" game...

Bill Parcells= Captain Hindsight.

In other news Parcells also said that he regrets not taking Ricky Watters in 1991.

I am with Sunstroke on this one. 

gee thanks parcells...

i love jake long, but franchise qb > franchise lt

Joe Flacco has been more successful than Matt Ryan.  If we're going to redo the draft, instead of wishing for Ryan, we should wish that Miami traded the Henne and Merling picks to BAL so we could pick Flacco (the point value works out).

^^^^ agreed 1000%



where the hell is Doc Brown when you need him?

The thing I hae most about the "hindsight drafting" is that it assumes all things are equal, our OL was terrible hence the need for the upgrade at LT, if you put Matt Ryan behind that OL he could just have easilly become the next David Carr or JP Losman.

Here is a thought ... maybe we should have taken someone else other than Parcells? I seriously don't think he did anything for us that we couldn't have done without him. Wayne would have probably stood behind Cameron one more year but ultimately we would propbably be in similar shape.

What is this love affair with Matt Ryan bullshit?  What have the Falcons won lately? 

The guy never has to throw the ball more than 5 yards, his offensive coordinator is Mike Mullarkey (hmm where have I heard that name before?) and like most average or slightly above average quarterbacks, once you hit him a few times, suddenly he stops playing all that great. 

If we didn't draft Jake Long, we'd be going through quarterbacks even more than we are now.  Remember the non-stop revolving door we've had at LT pretty much since Mark Dixon retired? So Matt Ryan would have two blown out knees, a broken leg and would be teaching gym somewhere in Mass at this point.  He'd be another David Klingler.  WOO HOO let's jump in the time machine and draft Matt Ryan.

He has lost like 3 or 4 games at home in his NFL career. And he had his team as the #1 seed in teh NFC. In only 3 short NFL years thats pretty damn good!! Especially since he was drafted by a god awful team

There is probably no other position on the field in which you have less of a chance of predicting future success based on college performance than QB.  Sure, there have been plenty of 1st round QB successes.  But there have been a ton of highly drafted QBs who were busts.  And many mid round QBs who have gone on to very successful.  Brady comes to mind.  So yeah, I agree with the guys who said that Parcells is really playing the hindsight game.

And its all Matt Ryan?  Nothing to do with Michael Turner or Roddy White or any of the horses on defense?  Right...

I still don't understand why Matt Ryan's name is even being mentioned.  Joe Flacco has been better.  This is like going back in time to the 2000 draft so you can get Marc Bulger; if you're going to dream, why not dream big and get Brady?

Aren't you aware of the fact that all wins AND losses can be correlated directly back to the QB? We call it the MikeO postulate around here.

How about the non-stop revolving door at QB we still have? I'm with Mike (and Parcells, apparently), Ryan over Long.

I'm of the belief that the only way that Matt Ryan would have fulfilled the same development curve in Miami that he did in Atlanta is if Miami drafted Matt instead of Long, but then found a great OT in the next round to protect him. Without a quality O-line, even good QBs can look pretty weak.

I don't know that there has been that much of a difference looking at them stat wise. You make it sound as if it is a landslide.

He is the QB. So yeah he is a big part of it  ::)

Once again, NAME THE TEAM in this league that wins big with poor QB play? You can't!!!  Being a #1 seed in the NFC and only losing 3 or 4 home games over 3 seasons is winning big on some level. Nobody is saying the guy is Montanta or Unitas but he is a top NFL QB in the year 2011 and going forward

It would be worse, much worse without Jake Long.  Ryan would have been synonymous with David Klingler had we drafted him.  I don't even think Flacco is that big a deal.  And how much of that is related to not only bad decision making by other management (I'm looking at you, Daunte Culpepper, and you, AJ Feeley). 

In this case Thunder, I have to respectfully disagree. 

Flacco and Ryan aren't big deals. They are only in the playoffs damn near every year.  ::)

Are you kidding me?

No, I'm as serious as a heart attack.  On this much we agree.  The Dolphins need better quarterback play.

If you want to go and be envious of losing in the first or second round of the playoffs every year, that's fine.  Neither Flacco nor Ryan would come to this team overnight and give you that.  I'd rather we became a dominant football team and restored ourselves as a flagship franchise in the NFL.  Dominant teams find themselves in championship games every year or every other year. 

We have issues at nearly every position on the offensive side of the football except offensive tackle, including the coordinator. 

Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco aren't going to go batshit on a defense and give you 40 points.  I doubt seriously that you will see either one throw 5 td passes in a game or throw for 400 yards.   If either one were playing in Cleveland, your envy of them would die pretty quick.  They're average quarterbacks on teams with solid defenses and good running attacks.  No more, no less.

Chad Henne doesn't have to be a hall of fame QB for us to be a dominant football team.  But the offense has to get a lot better than it is before we even know what's broken.  Drafting high round qb's every year is not going to solve that problem unless you get lucky and find another Marino/Elway/Unitas, and even then how much good will it do?  You saw Marino struggle at the end with shitty play calling, bad recievers and an anemic running game.  Now you want to go back to it with some rookie QB because you're envious of Baltimore's and Atlanta's playoff runs?  Please think this through.

^^^ Couldn't agree with you more (except for the part that the Fins could be a dominate team with Henne, only true if he improves greatly).  So many problems on offense last year that it will take two good years to fix, and QB wasn't the place to start this year.

can't fix an offense until you get a QB. Getting a QB is the 1st step in fixing an offense. He can hide weaknesses elsewhere and make up for a lot. A good QB makes players around him better.

I disagree that it's the first step. You can kill a great quarterback if you put him behind a pathetic O-line.

our o-line isn't pathetic  ::)

Even last year it wasn't great but it wasn't pathetic. It was very average

MikeO, we already did name the team in this league that has won with poor QB play (NYJ) and your immediate response was something to the effect of, "He can't be playing poorly, because they are winning!"

Why bother asking questions based on circular logic?  According to you, if they are winning, that makes the QB good, so it's literally impossible for a winning team to have a poor QB because winning is how you (MikeO) determine the quality of the QB.

But hey, you want another example?  Fine:  Chicago.  Jay Cutler's league rank:

Passer rating- 16th
Passing yards- 17th
Comp. %- 19th
TDs- 14th
INTs- 8th (as in 8th worst)
ANY/A- 21st

This is good QB play?  Oh, wait...

Wins- 10 (t-4th)

Must be good QB play, then!

Please Marc Sanchez has 4 road playoff wins in 2 years. Miami doesn't have 4 road playoff wins since 1973!!!  The kid must be doing something right. If you think Marc Sanchez is a poor QB you are fooling yourself.  We all hate the jets but lets have an honest discussion, Sanchez doesn't stink and isn't poor!

Sanchez is at or below league average in any statistic not named "wins".

You cannot cite wins as an attribute that causes winning.  That's why it's called circular logic.

^^^^ another example of a QB with good recievers, a good running game and an above average defense.

If Marshall Bess and Hartline have good years, and the running game improves, and the Defense plays as well as they did last year, I'm pretty sure you'll see a lot less bitching about Chad Henne.

So to recap:

I object to your characterization of winning as the sole evaluator of "good QB play".
You respond by citing Sanchez' wins.

The more things change...

Not if he consistently throws the ball to the other team. That has nothing to do with defense or running game. Throwing the ball to the wrong team is all on the QB

And all you do is follow me around from thread to thread from forum to forum looking to pick a message board fight...

THE MORE THINGS CHANGE...

Stop making ridiculous statements and I'll stop having to correct them...?

You can't make that statement AND claim Mark Sanchez is a good quarterback.   

And if it's all on the quarterback, how do you account for tipped balls, recievers running the wrong routes and throws where the QB's arm gets hit?  It's fine if you put them in the shit happens category, but you have to now clarify please.

BigDaddyFin, that's an outstanding point.

MikeO, you've complained about "throwing balls to the other team," but in the 2010 season, Henne threw 20 balls to the other team (19 were caught), while Sanchez threw 28 balls to the other team (13 were caught).

Does throwing the ball to the other team only count if you get an L?

Your argument is so foolish on so many levels its not even worth addressing. Comparing a QB who has been to back to back AFC Championship games to a QB who lost home games to Buffalo, Cleveland, and Detroit with the season on the line.  You know how silly you sound. Henne threw 6 more INT's and you are spinning that in a positive way over Sanchez? One guy leads his team to victory week in and week out and in the playoffs and in January and you want the guy who can't beat bottom feeder NFL teams at home in December

Live in the fantasy world you are in. I will live in reality.

With your Gates will suck because Ginn sucked since they both have speed. You are the KING OF THE FOOLISH STATEMENTS!!

^^^^

Sanchez sucks.  Isn't he the one who threw 4 interceptions with a trip to the Superbowl on the line last year?  He's been to two championship games and choked his ass off both times.   He also went through a massive dry spell in the middle of the season.  If the Jets HAD a decent quarterback, they might have made a superbowl appearance.   

And he has better recievers, and he has a better running game, and he has an offensive coordinator who was born after God invented water.  So here's Sanchez with all these things going for him, and he still consistantly throws the ball to the other team.  In playoff games. 

Does it matter if it's in the last few games of the season or in the AFC championship game?  Both Sanchez and Henne were still watching Aaron Rodgers celebrate at the end of the year. 


Really MikeO, you must learn to put your football envy aside.  It's clouding your judgement.  The guys you're comparing Henne to aren't any better except for they're on better teams.  You claim to know NFL football inside and out.  What exactly are your credentials?   To be fair I'll give you mine. The reason I know what I know is because I played at a collegiate level.  I called about half the plays for our JV college team for shits and giggles on Sundays.  I've also created an entire NFL playbook from the ground up, including terminology.  I studied for three years what coaches look for when formulating offenses and defenses and look for those qualities in Dolphin players.   I also know by body language when a quarterback is mentally weak (ahem Jay Cutler ahem), or when a team quits on a coach (ahem choke Jimmy Johnson choke choke).

I also know when a coach isn't cut out for the job (ahem Charlie Weis), isn't making proper adjustments (Paul Pasqualoni) or feeding you a bullshit line (Bill Parcells blaming a playoff loss on a chart that doesn't exist).

Shorter version:

Who wins games in the NFL?  Teams who have a good QB.
How do you know if you have a good QB?  Why, if you're winning, of course.

You're making a statement that is impossible to disprove (because of its tautological nature).  It carries zero informational value.