The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

So... A judge has lifted the owners lockout (with the owners promising to appeal) thereby potentially allowing player trades before/during the draft.  Let the conspiracy theories begin...

if all this gets sorted out before the draft (which seems like a long shot, but who knows), imagine the chaos that that will happen..

I don't think the lockout is actually lifted yet - just that the players received a ruling in their favor "forcing the owners to lift the lockout.  As I understand, they are appealing and don't have to do jack until their appeal is heard.

From the reports I've gotten, the owners have appealed and the appeal hearing will be expidited.  That's because the judge refused to issue a stay when she lifted the lockout.  As of right now, players are allowed to work out at team facilities and communicate with their coaches.  This means the Dolphins can talk to Brandon Marshall about the stabbing incident and get his side of the story.  However, because there is no CBA in place, teams cannot trade players or sign free agents. 

I'd love to see the owners and players invoke the 2010 CBA rules for one year while they negotiate a new CBA.

"Time" doesn't seem to be the missing magic ingredient, though. The two sides have had PLENTY of time. Clearly, neither side is willing to budge without getting some judicial input from the courts. Both sides believe they have the upper hand... the question is, which one is right? Until one side stops believing they have the upper hand, nothing will get done.

Wrt to the lockout being lifted... the league has gone on record saying it considers the lockout in effect (even without the stay) pending the expedited hearing on the matter.

They did this last year, extended the existing CBA, and STILL didn't get anything done.  I don't think extending it further is going to make anyone happy.

Unless they do it seriously - extend if long term.  Leave well-enough alone.

Extending the CBA long-term is the same thing as a total and complete win for the players.  The players are happy with the way things are.

That was my initial reaction as well, but then I remembered that there's no cap, restrictions on top-team player acquisition and extended requirements for players to become free agents.

The players want things to be as they WERE, not as they ARE. Young players are seriously screwed with the "2010 rules"... 6 YEARS of service before you're a free agent. What fraction of careers in the NFL even LAST that long? Sure, a few big-spending owners might throw tons of money at a few choice players, but there are also going to be owners that are going to spend WAY less. With the last CBA, there was both a cap and a floor (which was about 90% of the cap).

I'm not saying the league comes out way ahead with the "2010 rules", but it certainly isn't a clear-cut win for the players.

And now the judge has denied the owner's motion to stay the decision while the appeal is being heard.

The league has been ordered to start the league year immediately.

http://www.nfllockout.com/2011/04/28/lockout-lifted-football-operations-can-resume/
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory?id=13473068
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81f88dfe/article/nfl-says-teams-can-resume-operations-friday-morning?module=HP_headlines

She wants her moment in the sun before the 8th court overturns. The players went to a labor friendly court and got their decisions, now the league is going to a higher business friendly court. This whole thing still has a long way to go.

Temporary stay granted by the 8th Circuit. Teams almost certainly won't open their doors next week.

REALLY hope our guys were quick and got their playbooks...

^^ I tottally agree about the playbooks.....

This reminds me a of street game of baseball...Lock out on...Lock out over...Lock out on again... :D

I'm surprised they aren't arguing over the size and shape of the bargaining table.  What a waste of time.

Well the players took a big hit today. Who breaks first now in this stare down??

Maybe now we'll see some real work at the bargaining table.

Not until after the June 3 hearings. The 8th district basically said that both sides had a really good case, so while it didn't go the way the players hoped, there's no way they are giving up now. What it came down to this time around was the question of "irreparable harm". The lower court had decided the players would suffer the most in the short term, which (IMHO) is clearly nuts. The players aren't significantly harmed by starting the season a few months late, whereas a forced start to the league year with no CBA could clearly change the NFL completely.

Boylan (the judge from the lower court) had the players and owners in forced mediation the past two days, but nothing happened. They'll try (by force) again a few days after the June 3 hearings.

^^Yeah, but now both sides are starting to feel the heat which means that both sides will be more willing to listen to offers. The players thought they held all the cards up to this point and in fact everything pretty much had gone their way so why not feel that way. This is a setback for them and reminds them that they won't necessarily win in the courts and even if they do, it's going to be a long process. If they want to get paid anytime soon, they need to come to an agreement at the bargaining table.

Nothing will happen until early June. Absolutely nothing.

This is the court date both sides have been preparing for.

The hearing is to decide the legality of the lockout and until the status of that is established, neither side is going to make a move. That the most recent ruling (the stay of the lower court decision finding the lockout illegal) is being portrayed as surprising by the media is just sensationalism. If you look back at the coverage before the lower court ruling came down, all the experts were saying that the decision (whichever way it went) would be appealed and that the lockout would remain in place until that appeal was heard. Judge Boylan blew it, IMHO, by refusing to stay his decision pending expedited appeal and all the 8th circuit has done is restore sanity. Hardly surprising.

Now, how the 8th circuit will rule... that's the big one.

Doubt it. This court ruling came as NO surprise to either side. Everyone knew the liberal judge would rule one way. Everyone knew the conservative judges would rule the way they did. This isn't breaking news here. You don't think the Union knew this was going to happen?

Players still hold the cards. They don't have to answer to the TV networks, big money sponsors, and the City of Indy which has hotels room booked and convention centers tied up in early February now for multiple weeks because of the Super Bowl.

The players might miss a couple pay checks, but they all have millionare agents willing to bank-roll them a month or so to keep this fight alive.

Nothing has changed! Not one thing. The players still hold the cards. They are the product! No fan pays to watch an owner do anything!!

The other shoe waiting to drop is Judge Doty's ruling on whether or not the TV contract money will be put into escrow.

If the money is put into escrow, I expect the players and owners to hammer out an agreement in time to avoid any missed games.  If the owners get the TV money, they will hold until the players break.

NFL already has an appeal ready for the 8th court is Doty rules against them.

You're both forgetting one very big thing. We are talking about NFL players here. Players who have been coddled most of their lives. Players who are used to getting anything they want. Players who are used to agents, coaches, parents, union reps and lawyers taking care of EVERYTHING for them. They are NOT like you and I and have to prepare for contingencies. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that most of the players were VERY cocky and figured everything would happen exactly the way it was planned. They would dissolve the union, the courts would back them and the owners would have to cave and the season would go on as planned. This throws a monkey wrench into those plans. Now I'm sure that there are some players that would agree with what both of you said above, but I don't think that's the majority of players. The majority of players are starting to wonder whether or not they will be getting paid to play football come September. Football is ALL they know and most of them have bills that are coming due and don't have a bunch of money socked away to pay them. Sure agents will protect their stars, but the agents really aren't that worried about the 2nd string right guard. Those are the ones starting to feel the heat and those are the ones that are eager to get this thing resolved and those are the ones that will start to think that maybe going to court isn't a sure bet and maybe they should start actually listening to offers at the table.

Like I said before the biggest difference between the owners and the players is that the owners are a small group that are for the most part all in the same boat, the players are a large and diverse group. The tougher it gets, the harder it will be for the players to all stick together. If things start to unravel at the edges for the players, it will be harder for them to hold it together. Up to now it's been pretty smooth sailing for them, it's gonna start to get bumpy here real soon.

And from the following article:

Robert Boland, a professor of sports management at New York University who is following the case, said the timing doesn't help the players.

"The players have had great solidarity to this point, but that will get tighter as players go longer and longer without their workout and signing bonuses and get closer to the season," Boland said. "The longer we go without any kind of sense of when they will get paid again, the more their internal resolve is tested and the harder it becomes to hold them together."

He added: "Essentially, the NFL does want and need to play, but there's really no incentive from a financial and technical perspective to rush that. They can allow the players to come back to them."

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/05/17/2220387_p2/lockout-remains-after-appeals.html

If you, or anyone, honestly belives the NFL is in "no rush" to play you are fooling youself.

You think NBC, FOX, and CBS want no football and are fine with the owners just waiting out the players? Those networks don't overpay for football just for the games, they gotta promote their new fall lineups and promote the shows. With no games they can't do that. You think NFL owners want lawsuits from PSL holders? Or pissed off season ticket holders and losing season ticket holders in droves? GIVE ME A BREAK!!  You think Budweiser, Coors, Toyota, Coke, Pepsi, McDonalds...those add dollars are gonna come in with no games? Are you nuts?!? And who's to say they will still be there after a long and brutal process that has pissed off most of America if games are missed?!

And what YOU fail to realize is that there are pleanty of owners who are happy with the current system and last deal!! And when push comes to shove they will eventually speak up (like Robert Kraft has been of late) and say, we gotta end this thing NOW!! Just because you got piss poor and shitty owners in Carolina and Buffalo and a few other cities who don't want to work to earn any money, they are gonna screw everyone!  YEAH RIGHT!

With no rush to play games, the owners and league will have pissed off fans, pissed off sponsors, pissed off TV networks. But their screwin the players, just watch and see...ha ha ha  ha ha!! GIVE ME A BREAK!!

All of the pressure is on the owners to get this done!

^^^Seriously, the owners are the ones who put this process in motion. Now of course everyone on both sides wants a solution and wants football to happen. Both sides are under heat. But I don't agree with you at all that the owners are feeling it harder than the players.

As for Robert Kraft speaking up, that is directed more to the players than his fellow owners. His stance is this thing shouldn't be going through litigation. Who brought about the litigation? The players and their lawyers.

No MikeO, you and the NFL players are fooling yourself. The owners absolutely are prepared to sit out the season to get a new deal in place. They will not play the season with the same rules they did last year unless the courts force them to. This is not a ploy. They know they have to have an agreement in place. Too much is at stake. Even more than missing a year of football.

The players think just like you and that's why we ARE going to miss games this year. There's no doubt in my mind.

What a shocker.

Another thread in which MikeO has gotten into a pissing match with the rest of the community.

Thread locked as it is off topic.  (and the lockout is not lifted anyway)

I deleted all of the bet-related nonsense before I noticed Hoodie had already locked it.

Word to the wise:  no moderator on this forum is going to get involved in holding money for a bet.