The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-riverdeaths-survivor

I hadn't heard about this story, but apparently, a few weeks ago, a 25-year-old woman in NY state drove a van with 4 children in it into the Hudson River after an argument with her boyfriend.  This 10-year-old boy, La'Shaun Armstrong, was able to escape through a window and was rescued by a passing driver.  (He is now living with his grandmother.)  Ray Lewis met with the kid and took him bowling, while another player, former Panthers CB Reggie Howard, took him shopping for a new suit.

But that's not really the reason why I made this post.  The reason why I made this post is because for this article about Ray Lewis making this charitable visit to a traumatized kid in need, of all the thousands of stock photos of Lewis that Yahoo Sports could have used for this article, here's the one they chose:

(http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/ap/db/fullj.20940267b18355f16e2e812e3c123a26/ap-180a14dab2814c2592e59e91e1efd79b.jpg)

Come on, Yahoo.  Really?

This is the text with the photo.....


Seems like they are working two stories into one. 

I laughed because I thought it was Ted Ginn ::)

Lewis belongs in jail, he abetted a murderer.

The receiver in the picture appears to have caught the ball, and is running away from a sideline.  Those should have been your two major clues that Ginn was not pictured.

^^ LOL.  Nice one Spider.  ;D

He testified in court while recounting a false statement he gave previously. He was punished for obstruction of justice. I think he paid his debt.

Yes really. Most plays end with Ray Lewis on his ass these days.  He's not the dominant player he was and he was never the all universe linebacker he was made out to be. 

BigDaddyFin, even if the article was about Aaron Maybin (who was never anything to begin with), I'd expect that you'd show a reasonably decent picture (say, Maybin at the draft) rather than him getting his ankles broken.  The story is about Lewis' charitable work.  No need to kick the guy when he's down.

Far from paying his debt.  He helped cover up the stabbing, which led to his two friends being acquitted of the murder.  The clothes he wore that night were never recovered.  He paid off the family of the dead man to settle a civil suit.  He is scum!

I would agree Spider, but also remember that Journalism isn't what it used to be either.  This is probably what happened.

Yahoo editor: We gotta do a feel good story about an NFL player.
Yahoo staff writer: The only guy I know is Ray Lewis cause he's on that commercial and he has an awesome nickname.
Editor: Yeah he's always in those commercials and was in the news a few years back.  Who does he play for?
Writer: I don't know some purple team.   
Editor: Great that'll add some color to the page.   Ok find a story where he does something nice for a little kid.  That'll bring in the human interest angle.
Writer: Ok I'll use the search engine and see if I can get a picture of the guy.
Editor:  Oh awesome.  The other guy's wearing aqua.  Colors colors everywhere.  This'll be so eye catching.  I'll bet we get a million hits from it.

Wonder how the Chargers and Darren Sproles feel about that? Ray was one of the best linebackers I've ever seen. The Ravens D he anchored didn't allow a 100 yard rusher for 51 straight games. 51...think about that. That's sick! Either way, not sure why some of the other members are so negative. Ray didn't murder anyone. He didn't aid and abet. He was found guilty of a misdemeanor eleven years ago. Get over it. He hasn't had any issues with the law at any other point is his career. No domestic violence. No drug charges. No failed test for PEDs. Continuing to say he murdered someone is libel. -EK

wasn't referring to his issues with the law, although another poster did.  And I would contest that the anchor of that defense hasn't been Ray Lewis in a long time but rather Ed Reed.  I do however feel that Lewis is overrated and here's why. 

Ravens run a 4-3 defense with Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa whose job it is to simply keep blockers off Ray Lewis:  Ray Lewis is an all-pro.
Ravens switch to a 3-4 in 2002 and Ray now has to fight off blockers on his own:  He's an average linebacker all of a sudden. 
Ravens go back to a semi 4-3/46 hybrid.  Suddenly he's all-pro again. 

Weakness in Ray Lewis's game: he doesn't fight off blockers well and never really did.  He's also mediocre in pass coverage unless your name is Kerry Collins.  Does anyone remember any other "elite" middle linebacker who couldn't fight off blockers?  Anyone at all?

Is Ray Lewis a good player?  Yes he is.  Does the NFL pump the shit out of him?  Yes they do.  Is he as good as his press?  I don't think so.  The Ravens' reputation does a lot for them, and unless the Dolphins can be mentally tough enough to get beyond that, they're going to continue to have problems with Baltimore.  Notice they haven't been back to the Superbowl in a very long time.  They run into the Colts, Steelers or Patriots in the playoffs and that's pretty much the end for them. 

Lots of MLBs benefit from big boys up front, yet they aren't in the discussion of best middle linebacker of all time.

The Ravens are not the Cowboys or Steelers or Packers.  The only reputation they have is what Ray Lewis himself was personally involved in establishing (he was literally the first draft pick of the Ravens' franchise).

That's like saying that Belichick and Brady aren't that good... they are overhyped because of the Patriots' mystique.

To answer, Spider:

And yet with all the hype people still mention him among the names Butkus, Nitschke, Singletary and Lambert.  That's the point I was making.

and I disagree.  Brady and Belichick ARE that good, not because of their mystique but because they've been back to the Superbowl 4 times.  If you still disagree with me Spider, try it this way and see if you understand what I'm getting at. 

I contend simply the following:
Ray Lewis is not Dick Butkus, or Ray Nitschke, because Ray Nitschke and Dick Butkus were better than average in pass coverage and could shed blockers

and The Baltimore Ravens have been propped up to be the new version of the "Raider Mystique."  The better teams in the AFC particularly don't give in to that, and that the Dolphins shouldn't give in to it if they want to be a legit Superbowl contender again.

If you still find flaw with my logic, that's cool, or maybe I'm way off in my instincts.  That's just the way I see it.

Not to be too particular, Spider, but actually Jonathan Ogden was at #4.  Baltimore had 2 1st round picks in '96 for whatever reason. 

Otherwise, though, I do agree with what you're saying for the most part.  However, I'm also with BigDaddyFin in that as good as Lewis has been (and fairly consistently at that), I do think the NFL hype machine has played a role in leading us to believe he's the greatest MLB/ILB ever, when I'm not so convinced that that's the case.

My mistake; I saw that he was a BAL first-rounder in '96 and presumed that that meant he was their #1.

Obviously it is difficult to compare across eras (it's a lot easier to be good in pass coverage when you can damn near tackle receivers before the ball arrives), so the simplest argument to make is the following...

When compared to their contemporaries (i.e. Pro Bowl and All-Pro honors):

D. Butkus: 9 seasons, 8 Pro Bowls, 5 First-Team All-Pro
J. Lambert: 11 seasons, 9 Pro Bowls, 6 First-Team All-Pro
M. Singletary: 12 seasons, 10 Pro Bowls, 7 First-Team All-Pro
R. Nitschke: 15 seasons, 1 Pro Bowl, 2 First-Team All-Pro

R. Lewis: 15 seasons, 12 Pro Bowls, 7 First-Team All-Pro

Two things spring to mind.  First, Lewis is certainly in the same ballpark as these guys, and second, if there is an odd man out, it's definitely not Lewis.

I know I'll catch flack for saying this... but the greats of yesteryear would get their butts kicked today. Everyone in the NFL is a lot better. The talent pool is bigger, the training process more optimized from high school through college and even, perhaps especially, in the NFL. And the players have the benefit of improved medicinals *cough*. All combine to yield bigger, stronger, faster, and BETTER players.

Comparisons across eras are not just difficult, they're completely worthless outside of giving people something to argue about.

But what if those guys were raised in the same environment. I don't think you can say they would definitely get their butt kicked.

(I shortened it to save some space)

I'm still not sure I agree, but I understand what you're getting at and the point is well taken.

I'm not sure what you mean by "same environment".

If we take Dick Butkus and Ray Lewis... Butkus PEAKED before Ray Lewis was even born. I'm convinced Butkus would've gotten his ass kicked quite thoroughly had he been transplanted into Lewis' era (another concept that doesn't make sense).

In those 30 years between Butkus and Lewis, the game evolved. Players got stronger and faster. College became more competitive. Practice, workouts, PEDs, "supplements"... all contribute to a vastly different "environment".

Use the imagination. Have Butkus the same age as Ray Lewis. Butkus has been going through the same training, eating habits, etc. as any other modern athlete all his life. That is the scenario I am trying to imagine. At that point, do you still make your same argument that these guys couldn't hold their own?

At that point, my imagination has me holding my own ;)

Seriously, this is the problem I have with all these cross-era comparisons. It's like comparing tennis players in the wooden rackets era with modern pros. Heck, even a great player like Sampras would get his ass kicked by the top players of the game today.

It would be much easier if there was "one thing", like style of play, that you could point to and say, well, they didn't pass as often back then or whatever. But it's not "one thing". It's everything. Players today have to perform at a much higher technical level, in addition to all the physical stuff. Playbooks are more advanced. Tactics in general are more advanced. And, of course, the rules are completely different if we stray far enough back.

Some people would argue that the way to do these comparisons would be to compare the players to their peers... i.e. how much better than their peers were they. (A simple way of doing that would be the pro bowl appearances cited by Spider-Dan above). I'm still not convinced that gives enough credit to modern players...

Don't get me wrong, though. I have tremendous respect for the great players from the early eras of football. I just think the comparisons are silly.

That's a really bad example to pick.  Federer has beaten all the top players of today, and he's been around long enough to lose to players from the Sampras/Agassi era.

Saying that Sampras would get his ass kicked today (when people he beat are still playing) is like saying that Hakeem Olajuwon would be a below-average center if he came up in in today's NBA, or that John Elway would have been a mediocre QB if drafted into today's NFL.  These are not players from a long-bypassed ancient era.