The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Just saw on NFL network:  Orton to Miami could happen in the next 6 hours

nothing other than that, but def a name to focus on


thoughts?

http://www.dolphinstalk.com/

Yep saw it as well. By 7pm I am hearing on the radio and a few sources

looks like henne is dead man walking

Apparently desperate times call for desperate measures. 

I wonder if it's a 2nd round pick for Orton..Miami's never done anything like that before  ::)

Orton is almost certainly better than what we have, but he doesn't have a lot of upside IMHO.

Still, odds Henne develops (or gets enough time to do so) aren't great...

MSNBC is reporting "something in the neighborhood of a third-round pick". (link (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/43913147/ns/sports-player_news/))

That sounds reasonable to me. Anything above that (unless conditional) is too much, though.

The sunsentinal had an article,saying the Dolphins were one of the teams negotiating terms of a contract....(that was the last I had heard)
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-miami-dolphins-kyle-orton-0728,0,2021502.story (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-miami-dolphins-kyle-orton-0728,0,2021502.story)

I liked Orton back in Chicago,where I watched him the most....They gave the job back to Sexy Rexy Grossman which I thought was a bit of a sham....Depending on what it costs us financially,and pick wise..I like the move

NFL Network's Michelle Beisner is at Broncos HQ, apparently waiting to see if Orton shows up for mandatory camp (hasn't yet). She's hearing the same things locally:

"My sources telling me that the Broncos and Dolphins are in serious trade talks - could happen within the next 6 hours."

http://twitter.com/#!/MichelleBeisner/status/96265547880202240

Orton is the only name thrown around I had any interest in. Personally, if the Dolphins are to have any success this year I think we need him.

I am cringing to see what this costs us (draft picks).  But I would be cool with it considering the other veteran options.  Now that Thigpen is gone for sure, it is either this or hope that someone like Vince Young can turn things around.  I would prefer to go with Orton if it doesn't cost too much.

Don't write off Henne just yet even if they get Orton. No way will Orton be handed the job, he's gonna have to beat out Henne. Now maybe he does that easily and maybe he doesn't. We're talking Kyle Orton here guys, not the second coming of Dan Marino. I love the trade because I think Orton is 10 times better than Thigpen and if he beats out Henne, so much the better, but I'm not counting on it. I would actually love to see Orton come in and Henne beat him out. I still think Henne can be a good, but not great QB.

I hope Miami doesn't just cave and send off a high draft pick for Orton..Denver has a horrible defensive line and Miami has a lot of line depth..it makes sense to go down that route

I guess I can live with a third being shipped off.  If it's a second or higher, I will be extremely disappointed.

uh, dolphins give up a high draft pick, and sign orton to a multi-year contract pushing 6 mil a year for him to sit on the bench?

have to take the henne blinders off man... only job henne is heading to right now is in holding a clipboard and warming the bench on gamedays.

I wouldn't exactly call a 3rd round pick a high pick (if that's what it turns out to be) and I believe they just gave Thigpen a 1 year contract to sit on the bench, who knows what type of contract they end up giving Orton.

I just don't want everyone to start thinking that Orton is gonna come in and save the Dolphins for 2011. While I'd love for Orton to be the next Chad Pennington and take the Dophins to 11-5, I'm not counting on it.

no one is saying that orton is going to come in and set the nfl on fire. he is a big upgrade over henne right now, but that isn't saying much. henne really stinks...

this isn't going out and looking for a backup qb like thigpen. if the dolphins were cool with henne, they would've been a bigger player in the deangelo williams deal, and wait for bulger, delhomme, whatever other veteran fa scrub qb available to fill the backup role.

this is the dolphins calling up anyone and everyone to come in to be the new qb. it's going to be a decent size multi-year deal, in which they are giving up a a high draft pick. orton is the new starting qb regardless of whatever spin comes out of this organization. you don't make that kind of investment for a backup.

They haven't even made the deal yet. How do you know what kind of investment they are making?

And the absolute biggest mistake that Miami could make would be to guarantee him that he'll be the starter. You only do that with franchise type QB's and Orton ain't one of them. I don't think they guaranteed Pennington would be a starter when he came from the Jets and the Dolphins were trying to decide if Beck or Henne (the rookie) was gonna be the starter.

orton is due 9 million dollars this year. obviously he is going to take a pay cut, but unlikely he agrees to sign with anyone for less than 6 million per year.

sure the org isn't going to come out and say this is the undisputed game 1 starter, but you don't make this kind of an investment thinking the guy is going to warm the bench.

for god's sake they benched henne for a one armed qb, and tyler thigpen twice last year. henne is done, put a fork in him.

Kyle Orton 2010:

20 TD (17th)
9 INT (22nd most in league)
3,653 Yards (10th)
87.5 Rating (15th)

* Note: Orton did not play the final 3 games of the season
** Note: Tim Tebow had 13 snaps during Orton's starting tenure in 2010

Chad Henne 2010:

15 TD (23rd)
19 INT (4th most in league)
3,301 Yards (15th)
 75.4 Rating (26th)

* Note: Henne did not start Week 10 (Pennington) and did not play Week 11 (Thigpen).

Kyle Orton Vitals:

Age: 28 / 6'4" / 225

Chad Henne Vitals:

Age: 26 / 6'3" / 230

No of course you don't make the trade thinking that he going to warm the bench, but you HOPE that both Henne and Orton play well and you have a tough decision to make or at the very least ONE of them plays out of their mind and makes the decision easy, NO MATTER WHICH ONE IT IS.

i mean it's over for henne man...

you have how many weeks before the first game? you pick your starter, and get them as much reps as possible to get ready for new england. this isn't going to be split snaps, wait until the final preseason game to make a nail bitting decision on the qb. you are in serious catch-up mode here because of the lost offseason.

orton is going to get all the snaps from day one of camp.

^^ not according to the coaching staff.  They stated publicly weeks ago that there would be open competition for starting QB.

Sweet titties we have a better QB. Satisfied.

agreed

With Orton at QB this Dolphins team has a chance to make the playoffs. EVEN coming out of a tough AFC East

With Henne at QB the playoffs are  pipe dream. That is the difference.

Does Orton win us a Super Bowl, probably not. Does he make us relevant on the NFL Landscape....YES!

Jump the gun much? We haven't made any moves yet.

My bad. Thought the deal was all but done.

NOOOOOOO   ANOTHER BAD YEAR! They lost there toughness on going for the best players.I anyone get Hassleback then MAYBE Mcnabb. Watch!! 

I don't think it's gonna happen. Just read that Orton might be interested in staying in Denver. It's looking more and more like Orton's gonna cost too much to pry him away from Denver. Miami isn't gonna part with a #2 and I got a feeling that Denver isn't gonna give him up for less than that.

I am not sure why Orton would want to stay in Denver as a backup. I have heard that Denver will take a #3 for him but the asking price may have gone up with a couple of teams looking at him.

1) Denver can't afford him. Doesn't matter what Orton wants, Orton will be gone by Friday at the latest. Probably tonight or tommorow though. They gotta cut him if they don't trade him

2) The trade is a 3rd and a 5th rounder, not a 2nd.

3) The "HOLD UP" is Orton won't re-do his deal unless he gets a raise and more years. He wants around $10 mill a year, which is about the going rate for "starters" in the NFL these days and of course more years on his deal. The Fins and Orton's agent are trying to squeeze what usually is about 2 weeks worth of negotions in 12 hours. Because of this messed up offseason and how everything has played out.

^^ I couple issues I have with this

if you're saying he's going to be out of Denver regardless, and Arizona (the only other contender for Orton) is sold on Kolb, then why not just said for Denver to cut him and save yourself the picks and sign him to the contract you're going to sign him to anyways?

And speaking of the contract, you're going to commit starting money to him, so he's going to start..so they can't pull this bullshit about how it's going to be "competition" for Henne, because it's not.  You've chosen Henne's successor.  You're not going to pay a dude $10 million a year to hold the clipboard

omar kelly from sun sentinel is basically saying the same thing. hold up is the new deal with orton, and not the trade with denver.


exactly what i have been saying... orton is the new starting qb once they finalize this thing no matter what spin the organization tries to put on it. henne is dead man walking...

saying there is a "competition" is just coach speak!! Don't be so literal and read between the lines.

And playing with waiting game with Denver to cut him could slow down the entire offseason even more and put back this offense heading into Week 1. You want the guy, give up the friggin picks, pay him, and make him "YOUR GUY" and lets get rolling. Sparano is a dead man walking, Ireland may be to....they ain't got time to screw around and play games. If they start the year 1-4 or 2-7 or something both will be out of a job by November!

Because if you wait for him to get cut, now you have to compete with CIN/SF/JAX/OAK/WSH, all of whom are unsettled (for this year, at least) at the QB position.

^^ touche

I live in Denver, so naturally I get all the Broncos games/coverage, Orton is decent and I know this has been said about every QB we've had since Marino and after Fiedler, he would be the best we've had since. It gives us a shot this coming year.

new rumor making the rounds is the Orton trade is a 3rd round pick and Merling. Not a 3rd and a 5th. Either way its a good move. Merling is now gone anyway with the McDaniel re-signing.

Hold up is on Ireland's end I have heard on the radio and in some tweets from reporters. Either put Orton's 8.8 mill on this years cap as is which kills any further Fins moves. OR, re-do his deal get his cap number down to 5-6 mill but you must extend him and offer more guarantee money long-term. Ireland can't close this deal from the reports it looks like

looks like everyone is just in a huge stare down. denver wants a better pick, dolphins don't want to give up a higher pick, orton wants starting qb money (probably looking at the deal kolb is gonna get too)...

it's pretty obvious that the dolphins brass are looking to replace henne as the starter. not sure where they go from here, but should get kinda interesting at 4 today when vy is cut.

I agree completely.  This is also just a coach covering his ass, in case the deal doesn't go through -- you don't want to leave your potential starter out to dry.  Henne appears to be done leading this team, if our staff can make that happen.  You don't trade for a guy like Orton and not put him in the game, especially after the way Henne has played.

Another player that I am hearing is on the block...and one that I'd love to see in a Miami uniform, is TE Greg Olsen. I don't suppose Miami could manage a Bush-Orton-Olsen FA haul this preseason, could they? ;D

SO is soprano!! hehe

^^^ We don't have any sopranos on this team...you must be thinking of New York. I hear Rexy sings soprano when his wife is slurping on his toes.

(and to put things back on track)... I want Orton, and I want him now. If the price is a 3rd rounder plus Merling, and the front office is convinced that price isn't going to go down, then make the damned deal.

I disagree, if we get a new QB.  With Henne, yeah -- Sparano probably is done.  But if we show improvement with a new leader that Coach brings in, it could surely save his job.  If he's looking to stay employed, getting a new starting QB is his only move.

i agree... one thing that is soooo frustrating with this front office. always seems like they are indecisive. make a freaking decision and go all in.

i think the deal gets done today when vy gets cut. miami is going to tell denver that they will just sign vy, and denver will give in to the trade.

Vince Young gets released in a couple of hours. Even if the Dolphins have no interest in pursuing him right off the bat, I would expect rumors of Miami trying to work a deal with him... just to put some pressure on Orton and the Broncos.

Reports from Broncos practice where Orton took snaps with the first team is that he's looking very smooth, while Tebow is being called "indecisive at times" and Brady Quinn "scattershot".

Agreed he is a big upgrade over what we have and he has some experience with our #1 WR Marshall. I like this move and we need to complete it ASAP.


P.S. I would be pissed if we ended up with Vince Young!!!!!!!  >:(

According to Jeff Darlington of the Herald, the Dolphins are looking to clear cap room to make the Orton trade work.

To me, that sounds like the phins are unwilling to cave to Orton's contract demands. The solution to that, of course, is to eat his current contract ($8.9M).

Modified to add: 1 solid reason to keep Orton with his current contract is that it would allow him to show up for Dolphins practice tomorrow. Any free agent or traded player who restructures their contract isn't able to participate in practice until August 4. (source: http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/41059/how-calendar-could-affect-trades-signings ). With only 2 weeks till the first preseason game, 1 week is a long time.

orton isn't going to agree to anything that is not a multi-year deal. that doesn't make sense...

if they are looking to clear cap it's probably because he is looking over to what kolb just got and asking for something in that ballpark.

He doesn't need to if the phins take his contract as is.

yep that makes a whole lot of sense... force in a disgruntled qb to lead the team.

these deals always involve an agreement to a contract to commiserate the trade. you don't want to give up picks for someone that isn't going to be happy and doesn't want to come on board.

Who says he'd be disgruntled? He has given absolutely no indication that he would require a new deal. In fact, it's quite common for teams to acquire players with existing contracts. Completely normal in the NFL.

The whole reason for giving him a new deal would be to give him LESS MONEY a year. By the way the negotiations are going, it's pretty clear that taking a huge salary cut isn't high on his wish-list.

Bottom line is, this is likely Orton's last chance as a starter; if he screws up in Miami, who else is going to give him the #1 job? Why wouldn't he want a huge chunk of money to prove himself on a team that hasn't drafted his replacement (meaning his services are going to be needed in the future)?

his existing contract is essentially a one year deal. he isn't going to agree to go anywhere for a single year commitment.

the reason its at a stalemate right now is because kolb just reset the market. not sure where you get this is his last chance to prove he is a starter. he has proved that he is a good starter, especially against the likes of kevin kolb (or other scrubs available out there, or chad henne for that matter).

denver cuts him and he will have at least 4 teams bidding on his services. surely those won't be one year deals. he has a lot of leverage here because no one believes denver is going to keep him on the roster past august 4.

So you're saying that if Miami brings him on-board with his current contract, he'd be a malcontent? Why? He'd have every incentive to light it up in order to secure a future payday. If he truly resented the Dolphins for not giving him a new contract, the best way to give us the finger would be to sign with someone else next year.

Btw, I'm not saying more teams wouldn't be interested in him, but media reports are that Miami is currently the only team talking with the Broncos.

because its a one year deal with no guaranteed money. why agree to go to a situation where you know nothing about on a one year deal? better to stay put and force denver's hand.

chances are aug 4 they cut him (making him available to teams that were unwilling to trade picks, but would be in the market for a free agent qb), or they restructure a multi-year deal to fit him under the cap. either way he is going to get a new multi-year deal now. new contract = some guaranteed/bonus/upfront money as part of that deal too...

dolphins were a little hesitant to pull the trigger, and now find themselves losing leverage given the kolb deal.

Agree to disagree, I guess...

Orton has no say in the matter and I don't see Denver actually cutting him if anyone is willing to take on his contract (and give them something).

yep...

orton's say in the matter is in not agreeing to any terms as part of the new contract. the trading team is not going to give up picks without something greater than 1 year of service. i mean we are talking about the dolphins here that throw away picks like nothing, but it would be crazy to trade away picks without some commitment to lock in greater than 1 year.

he can choose to just stay in denver and force their hand in either a restructure or in cutting him. at the end of the day, orton will have a new multi-year contract this year from someone. this is going to include upfront, guaranteed money greater than 8.9 million he will collect this year. i think kolb got something ridiculous like 23 million?

If the Fins DON'T land Orton, just like when we didn't land Harbaugh as our coach......we will probably give Henne an extension and hold a press conference to tell everyone he was our QB from all along.

lol

^^ LOL

truth..at this point we might as well just say fuck it and let Devlin start

lmao..

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v693/lordthundergod/scoreit.gif)  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v693/lordthundergod/lmao.gif)

Not looking real good for your prediction.

What every Dolphins fan (or at least the ones who want Orton) should be praying for right now is that Timmy Tebow has a great day of practice today, because as awful as Tebow looked on day one of Denver's training camp yesterday, the Broncos brass has to be thinking "do we really want to get rid of Orton?"

^^ I think that ship has already sailed. My gut is telling me that Orton is staying in Denver this year.

This is why I was really hoping for Ryan Mallet...

Of the two I think a trade for Orton is more likely than BB trading Mallet to the Dolphins this year.  But you can keep hoping. 

Touche....I probably should have said that I was hoping that Miami would have DRAFTED Ryan Mallet...

I'm pretty sure he knew what you meant.

^^ I'm pretty sure he did too.  >:D

Looks to be over now, the Fins signed Matt Moore to a 2 year deal

I wouldn't be so sure. I still think the Dolphins will be quite interested to see what happens on the 4th. Right now the Broncos are over the cap with Orton on their roster. By the 4th they have to be under the cap. Something has got to give. Either they get Orton or someone esle to sign a new contract or they got to release someone.

I don't this this has anything at all to do with the ability or desire to trade for Orton. One is clearly looked at as a potential starter. I think Moore was signed because we have to sign QBs. Remember, Henne & Devlin are the only ones we had prior to signing Moore. Devlin is definitely a prospect guy, so we really need four QBs at the start of camp I feel. Henne will be on the team as a starter or backup. If we get Orton he is the likely starter. If we don;t get Orton, I'd still expect one more QB to be brought in for a shot either to compete for the starters spot or a backup role to Henne depending on who it might be.

That leaves Moore & Devlin fighting to be the third QB on the team.

We did sign Barnburner or Firestarter or whatever the heck his name is back in early January.

It sounds like I didn't miss much on that signing. :D

Kyle Orton/Matt Moore could be the new Chad Pennington/Josh McCown

possibly...

there is some provision in this new cba that let's teams clear dead cap space for this year only. for the dunkos, this works out because they had a lot of dead money on the books. their cap number is now like $126 million... they are not targeting any other top dollar free agents, so they may just be able to fit orton in under their cap.

Denver PAID Orton his roster bonus today.

Odds are Denver won't trade him now, it would be stupid to do so after you just paid him his roster BONUS

It's the pats vs the jets this year. We may beat the bills for the cellar award!For you betting men the decade miami has played a super bowl team during the reg season.And not just the pats. Bet it!!

^^^Man, can you try to be a bit more coherent? I really struggle to figure out some of what you are saying.

Maybe it's for the best. I seem to remember Miami making a big FA acquisition from Denver last year that we were all were sure was gonna turn the franchise around and it didn't happen. I liked Orton, but I was in no way convinced that he would come in and set the place on fire or even that he would beat out Henne for that matter.

And he still managed to catch 86 balls for over 1000 yards. 

^^Which happened to be his worst since his rookie year and it wasn't close. If we got the same production out of Orton, he would have had trouble beating out Henne.

His worst since his rookie year but way better than any receiver on the Dolphins squad since OJ McDuffie in 1998. 

With Gates speed drawing double teams and keeping the secondary honest, Marshall is gonna catch a LOT more this year.

He doesn't need to catch more passes he needs to get into the endzone more. A hell of a lot more.

That is tough to do with the suckass throwing him the ball.

That problem wasn't just him, it was the ENTIRE offense.  They moved the ball well between the 20's, but would stall in the red zone.

Heya Tepop, glad to have you back.  ;D

I agree.  Let me go get my puke bag.

You keep a puke bag in your classroom?