The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Former University of Miami booster admits to spending millions of dollars on players (everything from cash to prostitution) over most of the past decade. Many parts of his story have corroborated by players and others with no (apparent) motive to lie. Yeah, sure, things like this are almost certainly common, but the NCAA is going to HAVE to come down hard on the program. Very hard.

http://sports.yahoo.com/investigations/news?slug=cr-renegade_miami_booster_details_illicit_benefits_081611

This is big news around here seeing as three boys from my high school are caught up in it.  Ray-Ray Armstrong and Dyron Dye @ Miami and Andre Debose @ Florida. 

The kicker is if they waive the 4 year rule. I think they are going to come down heavy on the U.

Maybe I don't understand but why is this the school's fault?  Some random dude bought stuff for students.  What does that have to do with the school, or the program itself?

You must not have read the article. First, he was an "official" booster at the school, so that makes him affiliated with the school. Secondly, there are claims that coaches were also present during some of the activities which are outlawed by the NCAA. That means people employed by the school and not just affiliated with it were knowledgeable and ignored the practice.

^^ That's bad...

But, still a booster is exactly that.  What do you think a booster does?  The school still has no control over that guy, official or not.

If coaches were there, that's just irresponsible, and disappointing.

This is extremely bad. I just read that whole article. Wow.

Everyone is to and should be blamed. You can't NOT know about this if you're someone at the school with any kind of moral compass and not know it's either illegal or just flat-out wrong.

Miami University should receive whatever the maximum penalty allowed for this.

Its University of Miami.  Miami University is in Ohio.

http://www.miami.muohio.edu/

the guy did dupe folks into contributing $930 million dollars to his ponzi scheme. he is a professional con artist.

OK, but how do you discount people corroborating his story (included in that is a former Hurricane coach)? You can try to bring this guy's history up as defense, but I doubt anyone but Hurricane supporters actually believes this is a ruse. Too many people, too many photos, too many financial records.

im not saying it did not happen. what i am saying is that this guy is a professional con artist that exploited kids.

the coaches, and administration for that matter, are another issue that is inexcusable.

I've heard the possibility of the death penalty for UM. If that happens, the U is up shits creek.

I don't think that is a serious consdieration by the NCAA.

I don't think death penalty, but it will be far worse than what USC got. Remember at USC only 2 guys got in trouble really and they lost 30 scholorships and 2 years of bowls over that.

Miami might lose 5-7 years of Bowls (although 10 wouldn't shock me) and so many schloroships that it might wish it got the death penalty!!

The program is dead as we all know it. It won't be able to rebound from this. Miami better pray to god that this booster stuck to football and didn't spread his goods to other sports. Or else he could bring down the entire Athletic Department.

The smoking gun from new reports is one of the big-wigs in the Athletic Deparment knew about this guy in 2007, knew who he was and knew what he was doing. And kept quiet and never did anything about it or him.

The fact the University knew and did nothing....not good! As bad as it can get.

Like with Tressel. A cover up is always looked at worse than the infraction itself.

After this, it's looking like my Bulls will take UM's spot as the big 3 in FL.  :D

I think they already did before this news broke, but I know I am in the minority with that opinon

This does look very serious, and if the allegations are true, Miami's football program may be hit with extremely stiff penalties.  However, I'd prefer to let it play out before jumping to conclusions.  Yahoo sports isn't exactly the most credible of sources.... and the main source in this story is a known liar and convicted swindler. 

http://allabouttheu.wordpress.com/2011/08/18/renegade-reporter-spells-out-litany-of-accusations-while-often-failing-to-substantiate-his-claims/




A possibility?  Yes.  Likely to happen?  No.  The NCAA saw what the death penalty did to SMU.  They don't want to see that happen again.

i read through this... yahoo is certainly guilty of some sensationalism journalism here. the pictures are what grab you into the story, but if you really do think about it, they don't prove anything.

the receipts are kinda funny too. wow a receipt from a guy that spent a lot of money for hotels. how do you prove specific players actually used those rooms?

By having others corroborate the story, which has been happening.

This story reminds me a lot of the Jose Canseco story about steroids when it first broke.  The guy telling it being a swindler and a liar doesn't change the facts.  I believe every word he's saying.

So do I.

My only "problem" with it is that the exact same thing is going on almost everywhere else. Call me a cynic...

I think that compensation is going on all over the place.  I'm not sure that prostitute boat parties are, though.

if you read the article carefully, there is only one person (other than shapiro) coming out to corroborate a particular accusation, tyrone moss.

the yahoo story groups all 72 accusations as all having been independently corroborated which is not the case. the abortion claim is one glaring example. it's sensational, but the only person saying it happened is shapiro.

Oh man, the FAU prostitute boat parties are legendary down here...Dirty naked freaks on a slow boat down the intracoastal. ;D

Not exactly. The article says this, "In the process, documents, photos and 21 human sources – including nine former Miami players or recruits, and one former coach – corroborated multiple parts of Shapiro’s rule-breaking." There is also mention an unnamed source regarding Moss and testimony from one of Shapiro's colleagues during his federal trial. I don't see how you came up with only one other person.

I heard an interview with the writers of the story. They said they went in and told him they don't believe anything he is saying and that he would have to prove it all. Apparently there are documents and photos out the ass - receipts, bank statements etc.

I expect to see Miami banned from bowl games anywhere from 5-10 years. I expect Miami to be off TV 1-2 years. And I expect Miami to lose in the neighborhood of 30-50 scholorships.

Death Peanlty? NO, but damn close! Enough to sink this program the rest of our natural lives

USC only had esentially 1 guy get in trouble, they lost bowls for 2 years and 30 scholorships. Miami had a payroll of 72-75 men. The penalty will be alot stiffer! ALOT!

Maybe so, but that doesn't help if you are the one that got caught, and it doesn't make the ones that get caught any less guilty.

Can someone explain what the death penalty is for the program?

Remember this program has already got one strike against it for the Pell Grant scandal

Miami can't use the defense "everyone is doing it" beacuse it just makes them look even worse

They should come out, admit guilt, a few people need to resign from their positions, do a few self-imposed sanctions on the football program, and then throw yourself to the mercy of the NCAA. If any current players are found to be cheating throw them out of school ASAP!

It would be the best defense and maybe "soften" any potential blow. But its still going to be really really ugly

It means there is no football program for a period of time. So if the Canes get it, a year from now there will be no Miami Hurricanes football. No team, no games...nothing.

It's only been used 5 times ever. SMU for football. Kentucky Basketball in the 50's. Louisiana Lafayette basketball in the 70's.  One Tennis and one Soccer program at really small schools got it for buying/bringing over some kids from overseas to play on their teams. And they got it a few years ago so the NCAA showed it wasn't affraid to use it

The NCAA might not be afraid to use it but they will only do so as a last resort.  After seeing what happened to SMU football after it got the death penalty in 1987, they're only going to use it for repeat violators who basically are arrogant and ignore NCAA warnings (which SMU did back in those days).  You're right on target by saying that Miami should disassociate itself with whoever was involved in this scandal and administer some self imposed sanctions.  Last time they did that, the NCAA went easy on them.

The fact everyone knew about this guy from the head coaches in that time frame to the athletic department means the school sat back and did nothing. And 75 players....look,  I don't give a crap about the Canes one way or another (don't love em, don't hate em, they are just another school in my eyes) and don't want to see their football program ruined. But if I were in charge, this is clearly a case where the death penalty should be on the table and a likely option.

Just like with SMU. Maybe every 25 or so years the NCAA needs to send a message to a big program. Keep everyone on their toes. Wouldn't solve the problems but it might scare a few people/schools straight for a bit

Frank Haith's name came up in this scandal.  Depending on what the NCAA says, Mizzou may be looking for a new basketball coach.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/mizzou/article_aef06fdd-1ccd-5fe4-a566-860df24fe405.html

While I agree that this is bad, very few allegations involve current players, and most if not all of those are largely uncorroborated.  From all that I am reading, Randy Shannon seems to have done a pretty good job of keeping Shapiro away from the program.  The current players have allegations like " received dinner at Benihana's" and "hung out at my house", which I don't find particularly scandalous.

Given that the NCAA has apparently cleared several of the coaches who have moved on to other schools, as well as former players who moved on to other programs, it seems like some recent evidence is falling by the wayside.  We're getting nailed, but the worst of it seems to have happened in 2002-2006.  Hopefully, the NCAA doesn't decide to go past the 4 year statute ( a man can dream)

Something tells me Miami's gonna get a slap on the wrist and little else.

Thanks for the explanation. That is a harsh penalty, if they imposed that upon the Hurricanes how long would you expect that to last? Just a season or two or more like 5 or more?

Death penalty is at least a year.  Usually no more than that.  But the fallout from it can be disastrous.  SMU was a major football powerhouse in the early to mid 80's  Once they got the death penalty in 87, they were nobodies for a long time when they took the field again.  Only now are they starting to make national news again.

Saw this on a buddy's site.  Too funny

(http://sportscrack.com/images/dauboatsnhoes_large.jpg)

I don't think thats even a possibility. This is far worse than what USC did and USC was hit hard!

college football players going to big parties with loose women and lots of booze... shocking

Most of those parties aren't thrown by a 40 year old running a $1 billion ponzi scheme though. Little different!

how so? i don't get the difference. no one knew this guy was a con artist, including the folks defrauded by him to the order of hundred of millons of dollars.

is there an age limit on boosters? is there a rule in the ncaa that governs the types of parties boosters can throw? i'm asking, i don't know.

if a booster is a co-owner for a nightclub/restaurant establishment and a party is hosted there is that against the rules? if t boone pickens hosts a bbq party at his home for an okie state players event is that against the rules. it's not black and white as folks would like to see this, and its a mess because of the ncaa.

if the sigeps throw a party during gator growl and players party it up with chicks that are college students paying their way through college as strippers, is that an ncaa infraction?

college football players partying with chicks, not paying for shit, and easy access to sex is not news breaking folks. you could walk through 6th street downtown austin and bust plenty players if that is the case.

You write that like UM should have known the guy was jrunning a ponzi scheme.  As far as they knew, he was essentially an investment broker.  I'm sure a good bit of the boosters all around the country would fall into that category.

Bottom line, Nevin Shapiro was breaking rules. Everyone from the coaches, to the Athletic Department knew he was breaking rules. Hell the Compliance Director had hard facts he was breaking rules. And nobody did anything or turned this guy in.

Miami is guilty.

To spin this any other way is being a blind homer and ignoring the truth.

I couldn't disagree more.  USC gave up nothing more realistically than a couple trophies.  They'll still be recognized by the press as national champs that year, Reggie Bush is still a former Heisman winner.  They don't need any help recruiting.  They'd already been crowned the champions for a good 5 years before all this happened.  So basically they lost some hardware and some pr for breaking the ultimate rule in college sports which is "don't take money but watch us cut up these fat conference checks."  Ohio State should have been punished more harshly than they were, all they had to do was fire Jim Tressell, suspend a very replaceable player named pryor and all was essentially forgiven.  Add in the fact that UM has a high profile president in Donna Shalalalalalalala and they'll basically get a fine and a slap on the wrist.  We already know the NCAA doesn't have the stomach to hit another program with the death penalty based on what happened to SMU, so really what's changed other than the NCAA like a dismissive parent sending them a letter saying "you were bad?"

USC lost 30 schlorships and 2 years of bowls

Thats a lot!

 Mike, what facts did the compliance officer have?  I know Shapiro got belligerent with him, but that's all I've seen. 

Then the complaince officer had a background check on Shapiro done got every possible fact about him some 3 years ago, knew what Shapiro was doing with the players and how he was buying players stuff and he sat on the info and didn't do a damn thing. And didn't have the guy banned from the anything or have him removed.

Then you got the equipment manager who is the real smoking gun that the University doesn't have an answer to or can possibly spin in any way

Like MikeO, I'm not partial to or against the Hurricanes.  I don't want to hurt their program, just for the sake of my local economy, but I'm not a fan -- I just don't care about them either way.

But this looks REALLY bad.  Serious allegations that all appear to ring true, with evidence to support it.  It's more than just parties with loose women.  It's the hiring of prostitutes from boosters.  That's a big, big deal.  The fact that higher-ups knew about this guy is very, very damning.

these guys go to all kinds of parties, can walk anywhere on campus or downtown have all kinds of women throwing themselves at them, walk into any club at the front of the line, and don't pay for anything.

so they now need someone to hire prostitutes for sex? doesn't make sense...

and how do you prove that? it's not like a transaction with a prostitute is through a credit card or check. for all these guys know, these were mad, off the chain parties with lots of hot chicks. business as usual for them. it would be nothing different than walking into the sigep house in gainsville on a saturday night after a big win against georgia.

maybe most of the guys on this board don't remember college parties, but i do because we threw them as sigeps. football players got laid every single day of the week at college, and im talking even the 3rd string guys. these aren't regular joe blow college guys that have to work real hard to even have a chance at some action.

It doesn't matter if it makes sense or not.  It happened.  Like Dave and MikeO, I don't care one way or another about the school, and it looks very very bad to me also.

i don't care either way either being an alum from texas and florida. i do care that this sets a bad precedence for big time college football.

basically all you need is pictures of players partying, hanging out at clubs, on yachts, drinking top shelf liquor, toss in angry/vengeful booster, and publish a story on it. throw in prostitutes, abortion, insert other sensational accusation, and the public goes into a frenzy breaking out the pitchforks.

i also sense a bit of envy in the public's rage on all of this. "look at these black guys and the life they are living that i could never have, especially while in college when i was a real dork, so throw the freaking book at them".

He paid for one girl a football player knocked up to have an abortion. That is easily proven. And beyond the hookers, he had documents and receipts for a lot of this stuff. Damn near all of it, not the hookers obviously but everything else!! College kids going to parties and being drunk and having sex is normal you are correct. Going on BILLION DOLLAR YACHTS and doing that isn't!!!!!

For the record, I don't think they are getting the death penalty. I think 5-10 years of no bowl games. I think no TV for 2 years. And I think they will lose upward of 30-50 scholorships. It's gonna be really really bad.

and for the love of god don't play the race card, this has nothnig to do with race!!!!

again, call me crazy, but i don't see how that is easily provable. in the same sentence he says he never even told the player he claims this was for. in fact, how is this even against the rules? the sensational abortion claim happened between shapiro and someone else to which he says the player had no knowledge of.


what do receipts prove necessarily? that shapiro spent a lot of money? if that's the case, rich guy buy extravagant things, insert hated rival school here, and claim you bought this for players on the squad. you would have the receipts.


i don't see the difference, and i guess that's just me. does the ncaa have guidelines as to where/what types of parties are good  and where/what types of parties are bad? parties on million dollar yachts are bad, but wild alumni sponsored parties at club x on 6th street are good?


not saying that the scandal or accusations have anything to do with race, but certainly seems like the public vitriol and rush to burn people at the stake has a sense of envy and yes race to it. would be nice to see more facts around this, but most people have already made up their minds. just have to wonder where all this vitriol and rush to judgement is coming from.

he also has pictures of these guys breaking rules to go along with receipts. What more do you want????

Look your a die hard Canes fan. I get it. You are close to this. Hate seeing it, but from and outside objective observer point of view the School and the players are guilty of cheating. You can't SPING it any other way. Time to man up and take the punishment. Nothing to do with race or anything else. They cheated and broke rules. There were 75 guys who cheated, not just 1 or a couple. And not just taking a free hamburger or a free hat or anything. They broke the big rules!

no, u know shit about me man.

i am a die hard texas longhorns fan. i would hate to see insert hateful rich guy here, put together some stuff that looks bad, and have the public out with pitchforks based on a story with sensational claims. the public vitriol and rush to judgement without real facts is what concerns me about all of this. all it takes now is for knuckleheads like the alabama guy who killed the auburn tree to use this as a model to get at their rival schools.

pictures of college athletes at clubs partying isn't against the rules is it? and how exactly do you map random pictures against specific receipts? i guess maybe if you have the receipt in the actual picture with a zoom in on the receipt, but that's not the pictures that the yahoo story published.

Thats right, The FEDS and YAHOO made the whole thing up.  ::)
 
They had nothing better to do ::)

Don't think inside the box so much. Politicians, actors, athletes, rocks stars, etc have all paid for sex. They didn't need to. They just do. You may think it is irrational but it is a very common occurrence.

The old joke rings so true in cases like theirs. "You aren't paying them for the sex, you are paying them to leave afterwards."

Mike, what people are trying to say is this:

Shapiro has pictures of himself with players at clubs.  That in and of itself is not a violation.  He has pictures of himself on a boat and what appears to be his house with players.  Those are not necessarily violations.  Shapiro has phone calls and text messages with players.  That is not a violation.  Shapiro has receipts from hotels, strip clubs, stores, etc...but none of these receipts prove anything other than he spent a lot of money, which the Miami New Times documented in December.

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2010-12-16/news/nevin-shapiro-miami-s-caligula/

Shapiro does not have receipts that directly tie to payments allegedly received by players.  At this moment, you cannot look at a receipt and say "yep, that was the money he gave Vince Wilfork".

Miami looks guilty, probably is guilty, but nothing here is "dead to rights" as far as I can see, especially nothing from the last 4 years (while that may not matter much, it may still mean something to the NCAA if it can be shown Miami had its house in order during the Shannon years).

The rule is black and white. There can be no meals at commerical sites/restaurants. Infrequent, occassional meals at home are fine and can even be catered and include the entire team. The key is that it must be a special circumstance (which may lead to a grey are of definition).

There is so much circumstantial evidence to which we're privy, not to mention whatever pictures he has that haven't been released.  It's not just a receipt or a picture.  It's having both of those on the same day.

Digital pictures have meta-data attached to them that timestamp pictures.  If those pictures on the boat also coincide with hookers, plus receipts that show that this guy flipped the bill, all on the same day, that's guilt.  That's enough to convict in court, which is a much higher standard than what's needed for punishment from the NCAA.

You'd have to sugar-coat this pretty bigtime to think that Miami isn't involved in some seriously shady shit.

The same school with a history of dozens of players illegally getting over $600,000 in benefits from the Pell Grant and other payments on top of failure to do drug testing properly.

EXACTLY!!!!

lets not forget Nevin Shapiro led the team out of the tunnel TWICE at the start of games

tough to cover that up

not enough in my opinion.

Legit boosters get to do that too!  And they get sideline access, and flights on the team plane, and other benefits.  Why would Miami cover any of that up?  It's perfectly permissible, as the guy was a legit businessman (in Miami's eyes) until he wasn't.  Again, people look at the end result and say "the school should've known" and that MAY be the case, but the school compliance staff aren't going to be trolling South Beach clubs at 4 AM, aren't going to be staking out boosters' homes, aren't going to be policing what goes on off campus after their 9-5 day is over.  That's what we accountants call "inherent risk" - risk that cannot be detected by your controls because they exist outside of your control parameters.  Whatever shadiness Shapiro was engaged in on campus, sure, but short of bugging his cell phone or following him around with a PI, how would compliance know he was hanging with players off campus?  Or giving an asst coach an interest-free loan?  Heck, the main reason cited for Randy Shannon disliking the guy was what his "spies" accross town were telling him he was up to no good, and from all accounts, he pretty much severed much of this clown's access to the team (notice how all the pictures relate to guys that left before RS took over, and the allegations against current players are so meager in comparison to the older guys?) once he decided Shapiro was up to no good.

Don't get me wrong.  I know Miami is going to get crucified, but this holier than thou "you shoulda known" business is ludicrous!  Miami had less reason to investigate Shapiro than any of his defrauded investors did, the players in question quite certainly colluded to keep the higher ups in the dark.  I'm disappointed he wasn't caught, but I'm not necessarily surprised by it.  Anyone can get taken by a good enough con man.

And as for why Miami didn't go to the NCAA in, say, 2008 when RS tried cut Shapiro off from the team, I think the answer is simple if you think about it.  He was probably trying to get everything cleaned up (no contact with the booster, regardless of what RS knew or suspected) and get past the 4 year statute of limitations (essentially, he performed a risk analysis:  Report and get nailed to the cross or clean it up and hope enough time passes so the team is immune to future allegations).  That's my theory, anyway, not that it will make any difference now.

JVides,

It's not a problem that Shapiro came out of the tunnel.  But what it shows is that the higher ups knew him well enough to offer than honor.  It wasn't like he was just some guy throwing these player parties independently.  He had a clear university affiliation, recognized by the team.

^^^Clearly, I understand this.  It's also been established that boosters that pay a certain amount are granted this benefit/honor as part of their package (I believe the threshhold is $30,000 a year).  My question is, why would the fact the University knew him mean that they would have to know what he was up to?  I know my coworkers, often spend more time with them than I do my own family, but would have no reason to know they were axe murderers (if in fact they were).

I just think the leap from "the administration knew who he was" to "the administration should've known what he was doing" is a bit much.

By the way, interesting link here.  The story's author responds to questions (some raised in this thread):

http://miami.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1254883

I think that term is being used to include the football & basketball staff who did know and even partook in some activities.

Yeah, the guy is claiming that people knew, and his story is being corroborated by others, including a coach.

one of the new penalties being thrown on top of losing schlorships, no bowl games for an extended period...etc  is a possiblity of 2 years or so of NO home games. Make the team play every game on the road.  It would cost the university (and Stephen Ross actually) a mint. Program would be a financial loser on such a big level it would cripple them. It would keep the ACC happy since they would allow all the games the Canes are involved in to stay on TV which doesn't punish the other ACC schools plus it would be one aspect of a strong punishment against the canes.

^^^If there are no home games for two years you might as well shut the program down for two years.  It would cost the university million$ to field the team, with absolutely no income, can't see any university doing that in this economic climate.

The university still gets its TV money and it also gets a portion of the proceeds from road games.  Granted, it would still be losing a lot of money.  Can you say tuition hike?

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Miami-expected-to-declare-12-players-ineligible-082511?gt1=39002

The beginning??

They are looking at declaring 12 ineligible to play including two from my high school... Ray-Ray Armstrong and Dyron Dye. 

I have a question.  Why is it that the other players who went elsewhere, like Andre Dubose who went to Florida but participated with the other two Seminole High School guys, have been exonerated? Is it just because he took things from a Miami booster but went elsewhere? If that is the case, I'd be soaking up all these boosters from schools I wasn't planning on attending and then changing my mind after I got what I could get!!

I don't know the specifics of this case, but the media seem to be lumping two wholly separate issues together: Booster violations and player violations. At least some of the kids who were exonerated (at other schools now) were cleared because the allegations were of improper conduct solely on the part of the booster (e.g. introducing the kids to an agent, which the kids could easily claim ignorance of as long as no improper benefits were received).

The University of Miami hasn't publicly disclosed WHY they believe these players are (or may be) ineligible. Without that information, it's impossible to make an informed judgement.

Some stories in the Miami Herald have mentioned that the exonerated players may have been granted immunity for their testimonies against Miami.  Apparently, the NCAA has the latitude to do so.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/umiami/2011/08/limited-immunity-just-one-way-the-ncaa-plans-to-try-and-nail-um-says-cbs-sports-report.html#storylink=misearch

Well that might be part of the punishment though, no TV money.

--Side note--

This is an excellent thread - you all are contributing to it very well and keeping your heads.  I love it!  Thanks!

Carry on, great discussion!

It's official.  About 13 players are now ineligible.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/6894959/thirteen-miami-hurricanes-players-ineligible-reinstated-ncaa-source-says

This needed to be done.  They go into the season with these guys and later it's found that they commited the violations, then it's an automatic forfeit of all games these guys played in.  By sitting them down now and letting the NCAA let them back, they won't have that problem.

The NCAA has decided that eight players must sit out games and repay the money they took.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/08/30/2382557_ncaa-eight-miami-hurricanes-players.html#storylink=addthis