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A lot of things have surfaced overnight which is making the fall of the Sox this season become more clear. 

Apparently Tito is out, the Red Sox are not picking up his options.  A very good writer, with a very good reputation (in Chicago) has said that this is Tito's choice, not the Red Sox.  He basically went to them and said "don't pick up the options.  I need to be out."  The reported rumors of why?

1:  Carl Crawford:  Every off-season Tito was consulted on regarding player pick ups / moves.  He was asked once, in a "how do you feel about this guy" and said that he liked Crawford but he wouldn't work in Boston.  Tito found out second hand about Crawford. 

2:  A Gone:  He loves A Gone but had serious reservations about the trade and Kevin Youkilis (get into that later).  Tito loved what he saw in Rizzo and felt it would be better to retain Beltre.  Management told him that they would make a move to keep Beltre...and then they didn't.  Tito thinks Beltre is the best third basemen he's ever coached and had the "right make up" to be a star in Boston for years to come.  He was "toss furniture around" upset when he found out the Sox just let him walk.

3:  V Mart:  V Mart actively campaigned to Theo, Tito, John Henry, anyone who would listen, to come back.  Tito went to bat for the guy with the thought that V Mart had two more catching seasons in him and then would give Boston a very valuable DH / 1B combo.  Tito loved that V Mart was a wrecking ball against left handed pitching and thought he would anchor the line up at the 3 slot for years to come.  Boston made V Mart an offer that was specifically designed for him to turn down, that way they would get draft picks in return when he left.  This, again, after being told that they would do "everything possible to keep him."

4:  Kevin Youkilis is a locker room killer.  I always suspected this, I think all Sox fans have.  You watch the guy and his act gets old, quick.  Jackie MacMullan is about as a respected writer that Boston has, she is now coming up with a report at how widely disliked Youk is.  Youk, up until a month ago, was still riding Ellsbury about his injury last season.  I guess he's awful with the "little people."  He screamed at bus drivers for being late, club house attendants, folks like that.  Francona begged the Sox to trade him in the off-season and reacquire Kotchman (who went on to hit .300 / 30 for TB this season).  Tito's vision for the 2011 Sox (1-9) was:  Ellsbury, Pedey, V-Mart, Beltre, Ortiz, Scoots, Kotchman, Drew, Kalish.  Needless to say, none of that happened.  I can only imagine what would have occurred with that line up. 

5:  He felt that the front office did an awful job putting together the bullpen.  The only guy that they listened to Tito on was Aceves.  The front office got him to shut up Tito.  He's the only one who worked. 

6:  Damon and Jason Bay:  Tito went to the front office after 2004 and all but begged them to do whatever it took to keep Damon.  It fell on deaf ears.  He did the same thing after 2009 with Jason Bay, same results.

Basically, there could not have been a larger divide between Theo / front office and Tito.  Tito knows his role and that his job isn't to actively go get players, but felt that his voice wasn't heard at all this season, for whatever reason.  Other seasons, such as 2007, he had more say in the players that came and went (and the results showed that).

Me?  I am going to miss the hell out of the guy.  I think the manager on the field knows what will work more than front office a lot of the time.  I hated watching V-Mart / Beltre leave.  I hated watching Jason Bay leave.  Boston gets guys who show they can excel in this town and then run them off for the Crawford, Lugo and Renteria types of the world.  Tito had enough and is off to greener pastures.

SI John Heyman,is reporting Francona and the Red Sox are parting ways....
http://twitter.com/#!/SI_JonHeyman/status/119766154549018624 (http://twitter.com/#!/SI_JonHeyman/status/119766154549018624)
http://twitter.com/#!/SI_JonHeyman/status/119765962315661312 (http://twitter.com/#!/SI_JonHeyman/status/119765962315661312)

I was shocked listening to the press conference,yesterday then seeing all the rumors late lastnight...

Off to greener pastures? I'm curious which pastures out there are greener than Boston?

Certainly not Chicago...that grass went brown and died years ago.

Right now doesn't it look better than Boston?

I saw some random ESPN stories about Francona/Epstein's future yesterday and thought that someone in Boston must be saying, "It's been almost FOUR years since these guys won a title!  Get these bums out of here!"

Tito deserved better, he seemed like a very good manager. It can be overblown at times, but handling of the media and big player egos is almost more important than sound baseball strategy when it comes to Boston and New York.

I know their V-Mart offer was low, but what Beltre got was so high, you pretty much had to let him walk. As far as Crawford goes, pretty much everyone BUT Theo knew he was going to bomb in Boston. Now, they have a brutal contract for 6 more years. They can absorb it, but as we all know, when a player makes a ton of money, he is going to play whether or not he deserves too. Zito/Burnett/Lackey are prime examples.

Potentially a ton of overhaul in Boston this offseason with Papelbon, Ortiz and Wakefield hitting free agency. I would keep Ortiz if it's reasonable, keep Wakefield if he is fine with being an emergency starter and let Paps walk for draft picks. Closers are overrated. Let some team like the Dodgers overpay and use their picks for the future.

Just saw some clips from the Boston Herald and another paper how basically the team as a whole didn't get along too well and some pitchers would drink in the clubhouse during games. Worked for the 1986 Mets.

I am woefully out of baseball shape, because I have no idea who V-Mart is...

Victor Martinez

It's where you go to buy victories at discount prices...

Kotchman only dreams of hitting 30 HRs in a season. He actually hit 10 dingers this year. I love the guy though...great average, good defender, top shelf character guy...but a bopper, he ain't. ;)

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!  dude that might have been one of the funniest things I've ever read.


As far as the Sox are concerned.  I'm a Mets fan, so I don't know all that much, but I loathe the Yankees so I pay attention to them.  I feel like something should have been done about the strength and conditioning team before anything else.  3 years in a row the Sox can't stay healthy and it's cost them.  When they're all healthy, they're easily one of the best teams in baseball.  Sadly, most of them spend time on the DL.  in 2010 it was Pedroia and Ellsbury that couldn't see the field.  This year, their entire pitching rotation at one point or another were on the DL.  I think that's where the solution begins in Boston.  Hiring a better staff to keep these players on the field

And the fallout in Boston has begun.

and of course Francona is out, which everyone sort of saw coming and I'm not really surprised at.

I actually meant 10, believe it or not -- but the guy swung a solid stick this season.

Where does Francona land??? NY Mets?

I thought I heard somewhere yesterday that Theo was entertaining taking a job elsewhere.  If so, do you think Francona comes back to the Sox?

This Sox fan could only wish but I don't think Theo is the only issue. I think it exists all the way up the chain, especially in light of what Main posted in the OP.

The latest rumors out of Cubs land is the Cubs, like Cherington,not so much Theo...(which was rumored if the Cubs wanted Theo, Cherington would take over as the Red Sox GM) Kind of an interesting tidbit..I guess...But it fits with the latest rumors out of Cub land,of going cheap and not wanting to spend big...

He can't.  He clearly lost the clubhouse.  Don't let the song and dance fool you, the owners wanted him gone as much as he wanted to be gone.  This wasn't Theo's call, it was John Henry's.

I would also like to point a couple things about Theo.  He'll go down in history as the guy who brought Boston two titles after 86 years of winning silence, however he should not get as much credit as one would think.

2004 season:  Prior to "the trade", Theo attempted to unload Manny to Texas for A-Rod.  Nomar would have gone in that trade as well.  Boston's solution as SS was internal.  Does anyone think that Boston wins in 2004 without Manny (even with A Rod) and without the defense and stability brought by O-Cab and Minky?  I don't.  Prior to "the trade", Boston's team defense was near the bottom of the league.  In less than two months Cabby's solid glove alone brought them to 15 in MLB, 6th in the AL.  Offense wasn't the issue that year, it was defense.

Vital parts of 2004 that Theo had nothing to do with:

Bullpen pieces:  Mike Timlin, Alan Embree.  Embree might be the sole reason Boston was able to hold off New York in the ALCS.  He is often over looked, but Boston's 7th and 8th inning guys were -- simply put -- lock down.  They were pre-Theo guys.

Rotation pieces:  Pedro came in via trade, pre-Theo.  'Tek and DLowe came from Seattle via trade, pre-Theo.  Does Boston sniff a WS without those three?  DLowe was a post season monster.  'Tek was still 'Tek in those days.

3rd base:  Billy Ballgame Mueller was a guy that Theo didn't want, uncle Larry did.  That turns out okay for them.

Outfield:  Theo had nothing to do with Manny, Nixon or Johnny Damon.  All pre Theo.

Theo was also responsible for certain guys that year that almost blew the whole thing out of the water:   Byung-Hyun Kim.  Ramiro Mendoza.  Curtis Leskanic.  The bullpen guys that Theo DID bring in were awful.  The players he brought in for bench / utility were useless:   Ricky Gutiérrez.   Pokey Reese. Adam Hyzdu.  He brought in Dave Roberts who, until "the steal" contributed almost nothing.

YES, there was "the trade."  Before "the trade" a lot of wrong could have gone down.  Theo had a part in Foulke, Schilling, Bellhorn.

So, you tell me:  How much credit does Theo get for 2004? 

2007 flat out doesn't happen without Josh Beckett.  Theo is on records saying that he would not have made the trade that brought Beckett to Boston. 

Free agents are a mess:  Renteria, Lugo, Drew, Crawford, Lackey, Dice-K...the list goes on. 

Trades are slightly better, however the follow up is awful:  Obtain Bay, who is a mashing machine in Boston.  Allow him to walk.  Obtain V-Mart who is an RBI wrecking crew and hits left handed pitching like it's slow pitch co-ed softball.  Allow him to walk. 

Where Theo gets credit is the farm system, however that only goes so far.  He's smart enough to put the right scouting in place in order to draft guys like Pedey, Papelbon, Bard, Ellsbury, Lester, etc.  He's had some real misses, too, though. Like Craig Hanson.  Theo also has something that a lot of teams do not, almost unlimited money to dump into scouting and development.

If you want to see a true genius in player development, look no further than Tampa Bay's Andrew Friedman.  I would love to see what that guy could go with a larger budget.  I would love, love, love to see him in Boston's front office.

It isn't like Theo scouted these guys.  He just knows the right people to hire to scout them.  Some guys, like Papelbon, fell into Boston's lap because the teams above him didn't have the resources to sign him. 

Me?  I've never been sold on Theo.  I think he's a bright mind, always have.  I think there are worse GM's in the game, that's for damn sure.  I also think he gets way too much credit where it wasn't earned and not enough blame for the things that have gone badly.

My two cents, anyway.

I agree with pretty much everything you said Maine, but I would like to had that the Schilling deal was made to screw the Yankees. Let me explain. Both the Yankees and Sox wanted Schilling as he was still an elite pitcher. The Yankees offer(it escapes me right now), was better than Boston's. Boston's was built around Casey Fossum, so pardon my use of hyperbole when I say "That is the worst package ever".

The D'Backs didn't take the Yankees offer because a few years prior they had a handshake deal with David Wells, who then turned around and signed with the Yankees. So, that was a bit of revenge, although they screwed their own team in the process.

Very true.  Schilling also said that it had a lot do to with the way he was courted.  Remember, he had full no trade rights.  The Diamondbacks gave the Sox and Yankees permission to reach out to him.  Schilling was miffed that no one from the Yankees ever even called him to talk.  Theo, John Henry and Larry Luchino flew to Arizona and joined Schilling for dinner...on Thanksgiving.

So Schilling, really, was the one who is to blame for that.  He told the DBacks he wouldn't accept a trade anywhere but Boston.