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TDMMC Forums => Dolphins Discussion => Topic started by: EKnight on October 03, 2011, 01:35:17 pm



Title: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: EKnight on October 03, 2011, 01:35:17 pm
In the wake of JT's comments about Sanchez not having as much talent as Henne, and for all the Henne haters, after last night's performance, I would STILL take Henne over Sanchez, who was the best player Baltimore had, being personally responsible for 21 of their points. Glad I got SOME enjoyment out of my football Sunday. -EK


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: fyo on October 03, 2011, 01:41:22 pm
I would STILL take Henne over Sanchez, who was the best player Baltimore had, being personally responsible for 21 of their points.

No, Sanchez is not a good quarterback, but he is being given a chance on a decent team. With stability around him, he definitely has the core talent to develop into a very good quarterback. Given time.


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: jtex316 on October 03, 2011, 01:46:44 pm
I think they're about the same caliber. Each guy has their pros and their cons. They're about in the same tier of QBs - the only difference being that the Jets defense is far, vastly superior to the Dolphins defense and has taken Sanchez further than Henne has gotten.


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: mecadonzilla on October 03, 2011, 02:00:40 pm
So why can Sanchez play his best ball of the season on the road in the playoffs?  Must be all that lack of talent.
Henne will never get a chance to QB a team in the playoffs (unless the starter gets hurt) so I chose a bad comparison.

I certainly have no love for Sanchez, but I think it's quite apparent who the better QB is.  Sanchez had a bad night against a damn good defense.  Henne has a couple of games like that a season against far less superior foes.

Taylor is by far my favorite player on this Dolphin team, but he's just trying to talk up his QB.  He doesn't really believe that.


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: Tenshot13 on October 03, 2011, 02:46:18 pm
At least we aren't tied to a high first round pick that had to be traded up for who is performing at the same level as a second rounder who is on his way out the door.


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: EKnight on October 03, 2011, 05:02:10 pm
Henne has a couple of games like that a season against far less superior foes.


Sorry, but when has Henne EVER accounted for 21 points for the opposition, let alone a couple times a year. Hyperbole much? -EK


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: miamid45 on October 03, 2011, 05:08:54 pm
Jets are overrated, as is Sanchez.  At this point (and its early)...no one from the AFC can dance with the Packers. 


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: MikeO on October 03, 2011, 05:51:47 pm
Sanchez is a better QB. He isn't a great QB, but he has 4 road playoff wins in which he played a large part in.

Henne sucks. Sanchez is OK. But Sanchez is a better player than Henne.


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: EKnight on October 03, 2011, 06:05:09 pm
Sanchez is a better QB. He isn't a great QB, but he has 4 road playoff wins in which he played a large part in.

Henne sucks. Sanchez is OK. But Sanchez is a better player than Henne.

Ugh...why do people keep saying this garbage? 5 TDs vs. 3 INTs is hardly something to get excited over. Less than 200 yards in each of those starts, and an anemic 100 yards in one of them. Hardly a "large part" of the wins. -EK


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: masterfins on October 04, 2011, 12:35:06 am
Sanchez is a better QB. He isn't a great QB, but he has 4 road playoff wins in which he played a large part in.

I'm so sick of hearing about Sanchez' road playoff wins.  He has the road wins becuase the Jets, and Sanchez, aren't good enough to get a home field advantage.  Miami won on the road alot last year, that doesn't make them anything special.


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: bsmooth on October 04, 2011, 12:50:26 am
And they backed into the playoffs.


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: mecadonzilla on October 04, 2011, 12:55:30 am
Sorry, but when has Henne EVER accounted for 21 points for the opposition, let alone a couple times a year. Hyperbole much? -EK

I was actually referencing the amount of turnovers.  3 or more.  Henne has had more than his fair share of those.  He's been such a turnover machine that on a good day he only has 1.  How many straight games has he played with at least 1 turnover?  17, I think.  And he only played in about 8 plays this week and still managed to throw a really bad INT. 

I don't want to support Sanchez on this site.  He certainly likes to turn the ball over at times also, but he's not addicted to the turnover like Henne.


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: MikeO on October 04, 2011, 06:09:53 am
I'm so sick of hearing about Sanchez' road playoff wins.  He has the road wins becuase the Jets, and Sanchez, aren't good enough to get a home field advantage.  Miami won on the road alot last year, that doesn't make them anything special.

Dolphins as a franchise have 1 road playoff win since 1974. Sanchez has 4 in 2 years. They are very rare and he has 4 under his belt. You can't blame him for losses and give him no credit for wins. Not fair. Im not saying the guy is great, he isn't. But he is light years better than Henne. That isn't even up for debate! Sanchez is a quality NFL QB!


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: EKnight on October 04, 2011, 07:31:26 am
How is he "light years" better than Henne? I just don't get this argument. He has a career QB rating LOWER than Chad. His completion % is lower; his TD-INT ratio is almost exactly the same, and this year he has been a turnover machine. How is that "light years better?" He has been the beneficiary of a great defense and running game. Period. -EK


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: MikeO on October 04, 2011, 07:45:06 am
How is he "light years" better than Henne? I just don't get this argument. He has a career QB rating LOWER than Chad. His completion % is lower; his TD-INT ratio is almost exactly the same, and this year he has been a turnover machine. How is that "light years better?" He has been the beneficiary of a great defense and running game. Period. -EK

Sanchez doesn't consistently make plays that LOSES his team games. Henne does. Henne did it down the stretch last year when he lost us games at home vs Cleveland, Detroit, and Buffalo. Henne's play in thsoe games was the reason the Fins lost. And those are just 3 examples. Henne's inability to convert in the redzone last week vs Cleveland, why Miami lost.

And in big spots Sanchez rises to the ocassion. Henne has NEVER risen to any occasion. Big spot or small spot. Sanchez had a playoff game where he had only 3 in-completions for the entire game. 3!!Last year AT New England in the playoffs Sanchez threw 3 TOUCHDOWNS!! When was the last time Henne led 3 touchdown drives let alone 3 big touchdown passes in one game.

This argument is silly. Sanchez is a young franchise QB to build around. Henne will be holding a clipboard and wearing a baseball cap next year backing up in Minnesota or Cleveland or someplace like that.


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: Pappy13 on October 04, 2011, 10:43:32 am
Sanchez doesn't consistently make plays that LOSES his team games. Henne does.
That's one way to look at it. Another is to say that Sanchez' team is able to overcome his poor play whereas Henne's is not. Unless Henne has a great game Miami loses, heck even when he has a good game they lose. The Jets win despite the fact that Sanchez sucks.


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: dolfan13 on October 04, 2011, 10:53:15 am
the jets win?


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: EKnight on October 04, 2011, 11:48:39 am
Sanchez doesn't consistently make plays that LOSES his team games.

Sanchez had a playoff game where he had only 3 in-completions for the entire game. 3!!Last year AT New England in the playoffs Sanchez threw 3 TOUCHDOWNS!! When was the last time Henne led 3 touchdown drives let alone 3 big touchdown passes in one game.

This argument is silly. Sanchez is a young franchise QB to build around. Henne will be holding a clipboard and wearing a baseball cap next year backing up in Minnesota or Cleveland or someplace like that.


Seriously? Really? That's what you've got? A game in which Sanchez only threw the ball 15 times, so he miraculously only had 3 incompletes? And a game in which his team had nearly as many rushing yards as he had passing? THAT'S supposed to show that Sanchez is "light years ahead?" Or the fact that Sanchez had 3 TD's against the Pats? Funny- did you miss week one? Henne also had 3 TD's and accounted for 475 yards of offense. When was the last time Sanchez did that? Cough, cough...NEVER. You're right- the argument (at least the one you're presenting) is silly. Even his peers ranked him as the third most over-rated player in the entire league. Doesn't that tell you something??-EK


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: MikeO on October 04, 2011, 05:55:08 pm

Seriously? Really? That's what you've got? A game in which Sanchez only threw the ball 15 times, so he miraculously only had 3 incompletes? And a game in which his team had nearly as many rushing yards as he had passing? THAT'S supposed to show that Sanchez is "light years ahead?" Or the fact that Sanchez had 3 TD's against the Pats? Funny- did you miss week one? Henne also had 3 TD's and accounted for 475 yards of offense. When was the last time Sanchez did that? Cough, cough...NEVER. You're right- the argument (at least the one you're presenting) is silly. Even his peers ranked him as the third most over-rated player in the entire league. Doesn't that tell you something??-EK

Henne vs the Pats was Week 1. Sanchez KNOCKED THE PATS OUT OF THE PLAYOFFS!! Little different. Check that, A LOT DIFFERENT!


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: BigDaddyFin on October 04, 2011, 07:06:57 pm
Henne vs the Pats was Week 1. Sanchez KNOCKED THE PATS OUT OF THE PLAYOFFS!! Little different. Check that, A LOT DIFFERENT!

Doesn't that have more to do with the fact that the Jets actually try and play defense?


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: MikeO on October 04, 2011, 08:53:44 pm
Doesn't that have more to do with the fact that the Jets actually try and play defense?

You can spin this anyway you want. If you think Henne is better than Sanchez you are living in a fantasy world. Nobody is saying Sanchez is great, but he is much than Henne. You must be Henne's relatives or look at the world through Dolphins Homer EyeGlasses to think Henne is better than Sanchez. It's not even close

Henne had a Top 6 defense last year, by YOUR VERY OWN LOGIC, that should have been enough for Chad to make the playoffs and win some games. I mean if the Jets defense carries Sanchez then a Top 6 NFL defense should have carried Chad by that silly logic?!!

Give me a break. A year from now Sanchez is still the starting QB of a playoff contending team. Henne will be with clipboard in hand and baseball cap on head in godknows what city backing up someone who can actually play


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: mecadonzilla on October 04, 2011, 09:42:17 pm

Give me a break. A year from now Sanchez is still the starting QB of a playoff contending team. Henne will be with clipboard in hand and baseball cap on head in godknows what city backing up someone who can actually play

Or out of football all together.  Maybe it doesn't happen next season, but it's likely that in 5 years Sanchez will still be a starting QB in the league and Henne will be selling cars in central Pennsylvania (or whatever his fallback career is).


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: BigDaddyFin on October 05, 2011, 07:44:57 am

Henne had a Top 6 defense last year, by YOUR VERY OWN LOGIC, that should have been enough for Chad to make the playoffs and win some games. I mean if the Jets defense carries Sanchez then a Top 6 NFL defense should have carried Chad by that silly logic?!!


I'm sorry I thought we were talking about beating the patriots, not making the playoffs.  The main reason we lost that game and the Jets beat new england in the playoffs had to do with defense.  That was my assertion. 


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: EKnight on October 05, 2011, 07:54:28 am
Henne vs the Pats was Week 1. Sanchez KNOCKED THE PATS OUT OF THE PLAYOFFS!! Little different. Check that, A LOT DIFFERENT!

How? How is it different? New England had the exact same players and coaches! It's not significantly different. In fact- because the pats were the same- it's not different at all. Sanchez rode the number one defense and number one running game in the league to his first AFC title, and still couldn't win. Nice job ignoring the fact that he was rated as the MOST overrated qb in football by the freaking players! Didn't fit your argument so no comment? Put Henne on that jets team and the results are the same. Again- not saying Henne is better, per se, only that Sanchez isn't "light years" ahead as you seem to believe. -EK


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: MikeO on October 05, 2011, 07:57:34 am
. Sanchez rode the number one defense and number one running game in the league to his first AFC title, and still couldn't win.


if you don't think playing a week 1 game at home is different than a ROAD playoff game I don't know what to tell ya

P.S....the Jets haven't won the AFC East or an AFC title, I have no idea where you are getting your "info" from. And give me a "link" to that overrated poll. I don't believe it for a second without some proof


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: MikeO on October 05, 2011, 08:01:10 am
Or out of football all together.  Maybe it doesn't happen next season, but it's likely that in 5 years Sanchez will still be a starting QB in the league and Henne will be selling cars in central Pennsylvania (or whatever his fallback career is).

Chad Henne=Matt Leinart

It really is the only comparison that makes any sense with Chad. Given a shot, fail miserably. Find a bench on a team as a backup. And shortly out of the league. Which Leinart will be after this year. And within a couple Henne will follow the same path


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: EKnight on October 05, 2011, 08:58:37 am

if you don't think playing a week 1 game at home is different than a ROAD playoff game I don't know what to tell ya

P.S....the Jets haven't won the AFC East or an AFC title, I have no idea where you are getting your "info" from. And give me a "link" to that overrated poll. I don't believe it for a second without some proof

??? Never said he had a title. Said he made it there riding his D and running game and still couldn't win. The poll was conducted by and published in Sports Illustrated. Is that a reputable enough source? You can Google a link- there's plenty of them. I'm sure you will have some ridiculous rubuttle to that as well though. -EK


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: Spider-Dan on October 05, 2011, 12:01:01 pm
MikeO, Sanchez just posted the worst game (all considered) by any NFL quarterback since 2008 (http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/32198/mark-sanchez-notches-record-low-qbr).  The next closest competitor was Andrew Walter with the Raiders.

ESPN devised a Total QB Rating to compare all facets of a QB's play, be it clutch plays (or lack thereof), failed 3rd down conversions, strip sack fumbles, etc.  Using this objective rating, Sanchez is the 3rd worst QB in the league this season and Henne is in the top 10.  For his career, Henne has consistently posted higher QBR numbers than Sanchez.

Sanchez is consistently bailed out by his team.  Look at the game against Dallas: after NYJ scored a TD to close within 7 points, Sanchez and the Jets offense went home for the night... their next (and final) three offensive drives resulted in fumble, punt, and 2-yard drive for 50-yard FG.  (The last possession was particularly wretched, as Sanchez got the ball with 0:49 remaining and handed the ball back to DAL with 0:27 remaining...  and DAL didn't even have to use a timeout!)

The Jets defense and special teams did the entirety of the rest of the work necessary to win the game.  But Sanchez gets a 4th quarter comeback on his resume.  Pathetic.


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: Spider-Dan on October 05, 2011, 12:13:38 pm
And for the record, Sanchez was only voted the SECOND most overrated QB in football (and tied for third as most overrated player).  In a twist of irony (given week 1), Romo was the #1 overrated QB; T.O. was the #1 overrated player overall.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/jets/2010/10/mark-sanchez-ranked-third-most.html


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: Pappy13 on October 05, 2011, 12:15:29 pm
And for the record, Sanchez was only voted the SECOND most overrated QB in football (and tied for third as most overrated player).  In a twist of irony (given week 1), Romo was the #1 QB; T.O. was #1 overall.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/jets/2010/10/mark-sanchez-ranked-third-most.html
That's a player poll by the way, not a fan poll, but to be completely forthcoming that poll was taken a year ago, not recently.


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: Spider-Dan on October 05, 2011, 12:20:57 pm
That's a player poll by the way, not a fan poll, but to be completely forthcoming that poll was taken a year ago, not recently.
If you took that poll today, Sanchez could snatch the overall crown, though Romo is giving him some stiff competition.  T.O. certainly wouldn't be on the list.


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: EKnight on October 05, 2011, 01:17:24 pm
And for the record, Sanchez was only voted the SECOND most overrated QB in football (and tied for third as most overrated player).  In a twist of irony (given week 1), Romo was the #1 overrated QB; T.O. was the #1 overrated player overall.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/jets/2010/10/mark-sanchez-ranked-third-most.html

Thanks for catching that. Mike appears to be oddly silent now. -EK


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: MikeO on October 05, 2011, 07:08:56 pm
not silent, at work all day  ::)  Just got on the CPU for the first time since this morning

Bottom line, Sanchez is light years better than Henne. if you want to fool yourself into thinking Henne is decent, go for it. Nothing I say will change your mind. Nothing you say will change mine.

But the numbers and facts back me up. . Henne loses week in and week out and has been a turnover machine and doesn't do anything to lead his team to wins. Sanchez is in the playoffs every year and fighting for a super bowl throwing 3 TD's in one game in late January in meaningful playoff games. I don't know what to tell you. Every Dolphins loss is NOT Henne's fault in your mind. Every Jets win Sanchez had nothing to do with it in your mind. You live in your bubble....god bless ya. Believe what ya want. But Im not gonna beat you over the head with it anymore.



Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: EKnight on October 06, 2011, 09:02:10 am
Amazing! This just in folks- since the numbers back Mike up, let's look at them:

Turnover maching Henne: 7114 career yards, 44 turnovers
Walks on Water Sanchez: 6740 career yards, and guess what? 47 turnovers.

Hmmm.....more fumbles and INTs for Sanchez...interesting....

Sanchez attempts on opponent's side of the field: 65
Henne attempts on opponent's side of the field: 57

Better starting position for Sanchez....interesting....

How, exactly do the numbers back you up? How is a QB who turns the ball over more, has a lower career QB rating, and who benefits from having the #1 defense in the league and #1 rushing game in the league one year (2009), and and the number 3 D and 4 rushing game the next light years ahead? How can you possibly call Henne a TO machine when Sanchez has MORE turnovers??? Still no comment on the league survey? Even the unbiased guys who write about the NFL see Henne as a better player, and dismiss the fact that he has been further in the playoffs because of his team. Scouts, Inc and Pro Football Focus BOTH did articles on the two and BOTH sided with the Henne camp as a bteer QB. Again, I'm not making the argument that Henne is necessarily better, but he's certainly not "light years" behind.   -EK





Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: Frimp on October 06, 2011, 09:53:36 am
Dolphins as a franchise have 1 road playoff win since 1974. Sanchez has 4 in 2 years. They are very rare and he has 4 under his belt. You can't blame him for losses and give him no credit for wins. Not fair. Im not saying the guy is great, he isn't. But he is light years better than Henne. That isn't even up for debate! Sanchez is a quality NFL QB!

Edited because I misread Mike's post.


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: EKnight on October 06, 2011, 10:09:56 am
Playoff road wins are NOT what they used to be anyway. Overall, visitors are 12-30 in the AFC, but since 1996 they are 12-18. And since 2004 they are 8-6. In the NFC, visitors are 17-25, including 7-7 since 2004. That means that since 2004 road teams win more than home teams. Another "point" made by MikeO shot down. -EK





Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: mecadonzilla on October 06, 2011, 02:34:04 pm
Hmmm...I had no idea wins in the playoffs don't mean anything.  You should tell the Packers to give their trophy back since playoff road wins mean nothing now.  In fact, since playoff wins mean zero, we should probably just crown a champion after the regular season to avoid all that meaningless football.  Or maybe they could crown the champion after preseason and really cut all those meaningless games out.  Maybe then, Chad Henne will have won some meaningful games! 


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: EKnight on October 06, 2011, 03:32:12 pm
No one ever said they were meaningless. What I said was that road playoff wins- at least the trend in the past few years- are easier to come by than home playoff wins (which the numbers spell out), and in no way should be a reflection of Sanchez's "greatness." -EK


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: mecadonzilla on October 06, 2011, 04:03:47 pm
Except that wins are wins, regardless of a trend.  Reality sure is a bitch, huh. 

No one is arguing Sanchez's greatness.  The only point is that he's a superior QB to Henne.  So unless Henne can demonstrate the ability to win ANY meaningful games under any circumstance, there is no argument.  Some of Sanchez's best games have come in the playoffs, which apparently, don't mean very much to you inexplicably.  Henne, on the other hand, has never demonstrated the ability to be great, good, or even passable in any game that has meaningful implications.

And since Henne has proven too fragile to even make it through this season, Sanchez will get a chance to put another notch in his belt while Henne begins preparations for an eventual career out of football.


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: CF DolFan on October 06, 2011, 04:13:30 pm
So unless Henne can demonstrate the ability to win ANY meaningful games under any circumstance, there is no argument. 

Yep ... Henne is just another Dan Marino.  He's a "can't do it by himself quarterback" that unlike that of Sanchez.


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: mecadonzilla on October 06, 2011, 04:19:40 pm
Yep ... Henne is just another Dan Marino.  He's a "can't do it by himself quarterback" that unlike that of Sanchez.

Not sure what you're saying here.  Marino won many, many meaningful games...just never the big one.  Henne has never won a game that got his team near the playoffs, to the playoffs, or in the playoffs.


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: MikeO on October 06, 2011, 05:24:12 pm
Bottom line is Sanchez has a few "great games" to put up as an accomplishment and they happen to be in big spots in games that really matter. Henne has none.

This whole debate is silly, only Henne's family or some irrational Fins Fan would think Henne is close to Sanchez on this day in 2011


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: EKnight on October 06, 2011, 06:07:30 pm
Not sure what you're saying here.  Marino won many, many meaningful games...just never the big one.  Henne has never won a game that got his team near the playoffs, to the playoffs, or in the playoffs.

Neither has Sanchez. THAT'S the point. He has been on some teams that have done those things, but acting like he won the damn games for them is like saying Brad Johnson "won" the Super Bowl for the Bucs in Super Bowl XXXVII. He- and Sanchez- are merely along for the ride. -EK


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: mecadonzilla on October 06, 2011, 09:49:49 pm
Oy.  Keep on beating your dead horse of an argument...it might start working for you.  Next time (which would also be the first time) Henne does anything of note wake me up.


Title: Re: At least Henne's not Sanchez....
Post by: MikeO on October 07, 2011, 06:18:49 am
Oy.  Keep on beating your dead horse of an argument...it might start working for you.  Next time (which would also be the first time) Henne does anything of note wake me up.

lol....yep!