The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

You're fooling yourself if you think he is.

I foresee a situation where he wins enough games to save his job, and our spineless ownership decides to do nothing.

However, as I see it, it might not be a terrible move.  A coach that has his players behind him is a good thing, and to take an 0-7 team and win a chunk of remaining games shows ability, IMO.  Conversely, the Colts were 0-7 and the team quit on the season.  I don't see the players rallying around Jim Caldwell.

So, it wouldn't surprise me if Sparano stays around for 2012.

Lets say he does run the table.  Doesn't that mean he is a good enough coach to take a team that by any objective measure should have lost all hope and turn them around?  Isn't that what you want in a coach? 

^ I hear you on all points. And there definitely is something to be said about a team that rallies around a coach, especially after going 0-7 (The Colts have totally quit, no question).

But (there is always a "but"), you (you being an NFL owner) can't accept a player's coach and a never-say-die attitude in lieu of mediocrity. Going 0-7 to start the year and the completely pathetic home-loss records and losing 10 straight going back to last year and all of the stuff pre-3-game winning streak can't be brushed aside after a few game winning streak.

A coach can't just barely squeak by each year and do just enough to not be fired because the players never quit on him - that's simply not enough. The Dolphins realistically can finish about 6-10 or 5-11 this year, as they are about to start facing some division-winners (don't say the Chiefs were also division-winners, because they are clearly a joke).

But if mediocrity is good enough, then Sparano will coach next season.

Here's the thing -

The coach is a piece of the equation, not the whole answer.  There's two schools of thought -

a) you take a team with 3-13 talent and go 8-8

b) you take a team with 12-4 talent and go 8-8

The way the Dolphins were playing weeks 1-8, they looked like a 3-13 team, so a coach that pushes that to "mediocre" is good to have.

However, if the talent on the field is that of a 12-4 team, and the coach (game plan, preparation, decisions, etc) causes them to lose "should have won" games, then sure fire him.  They way they are playing now, they seem to be a casualty of the lockout, with the shortened camp and a team in transition.

I'm just saying that, the way this team operates, its not a LOCK that he's fired. 

I think it says a lot that the team didn't quit, they kept on pushing, through all the adversity, Suck for Luck, media hounding and negativity that comes with 0-7.  THAT's coaching, and that's what I want for the future.

Notice - no one's talking about red zone struggles anymore.  No one's talking about blown 4th quarter leads anymore.  No one is talking about Sparano's house for sale.

Maybe Henne was the problem all along.  They seem to be playing better without him.  Who knows?

Just keep that possibility in your mind that Tony Sparano will coach the Miami Dolphins in 2012.

I think in the history of the internet you are the first person to have ever referred to Sparano as a "player's coach".  


Here is my though...Some people improve with experience.  Heck a lot of people do.  

Bill Belichick isn't going to get into the HoF on his Cleveland days.

Maybe Sparano was a bad coach and then with experience got better.  Just like Moore is playing better this year than he did in Carolina.  Some people learn from their mistakes.  If Tony has just completed an on the job training program to learn how to be a head coach, be stupid to get rid of him once he finally mastered that skill.

Isn't the general opinion that Ireland was more in need of being released than Sparano? I could be wrong but I felt most did not like Ireland and that Sparano was more a victim of the record.

It is said all the time. The story has been how the players were rallying around him, supporting him, and not giving up. I'll chalk it up to not being a Dolphins fan and let you slide.

I thought that was the general consensus...

Granted I don't follow the Dolphin news much...but last time I heard about his relationship with players he had placed 2nd on the list of coaches players didn't want to play for.

http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php/topic,19392.0.html

My point is to the best of my knowldge hid demeanor with is players is one of being an hardass and dispite the players are rally around him even though many of them may not personally like him.  Much the way the Giants did in '07.  The players didn't like Caughlin then, just like they don't like him now.  But they give 100% when he demanded it even when they were 0-2 or later in the season when everyone had them writen off.  That doesn't make him a "players coach."  It makes him a coach with the players respect.  BB isn't a player's coach either. 

Rex Ryan is a player's coach. 

How is Rex Ryan a players' coach? He throws his players under the bus when they lose. He makes ridiculous claims that THEY have to then try to live up to. While they all go out and bust ass in training camp and throughout the season, he gets lap-band surgery to lose weight, taking the easy way out. I'm not following the logic at all here. -EK

Edit- incidently, Ryan finished fifth in that same poll, so clearly he's not THAT much of a players coach.

I think that survey about coached players didnt want to play for had more to do with the record.

It would take a playoff appearance along with a deep run in the playoffs for Sparano to have a job next year.  Just the way I see it. 

And don't get your hopes up about this three game win streak either.  It came against the cream of the crap teams in the NFL.

Maybe so, but they creamed those teams.  They are playing well.

Coughlin and Belichick were #1 and #3, so I don't think that theory holds up.

As for Rex Ryan's position on the survey, he was right behind Jim Harbaugh and right ahead of Jim Schwartz, and none of them had more than 6 votes (out of 111 players surveyed).  I think that's more of the "statistical noise" range.

I meant as far as Sparano was concerned.

That list seemed to be 2 causes for 1 effect.

1 - no one wants to play for a losing coach

2 - no one wants to work hard

Belichick and Coughlin fall under #2.  Many others fall under #1.

Unfortunately, its difficult to not work hard and still not lose.

Well, Jim Caldwell didn't even get six votes.  Neither did Spagnuolo, Whisenhunt, Frazier, or Rivera.  So Sparano is obviously exceptional in that regard.

If he runs the table, I would have no choice but to factor in two major things.

1st - The short off season and revised tackling rules in practice may have hampered the defense early on and kept us from getting new additions ready for the start of the season on offense.  Evidence shows this happened to many teams and it is possible our guys took it upon themselves to do less on their own during the lockout than other teams.  All of our soft tissue injuries show this is likely.

2nd - Henne did play better, but his lack of ability to score may have been holding back the team.  It is possible that Henne was more of the problem than Sparano.

With that in mind, I don't think you can fire Sparano at 8-8 or 9-7 (this year only). Next year, he would have a proper offseason and a second year with Daboll.  He would also have a QB that shows he can get it done and a chance to fix the right tackle situation.  It is enough to consider one more year.

I still think I would like to have Fisher over Sparano, but I really don't care much for Cower or an unknown if we really start cranking out wins in this kind of blow out fashion.

What was the context?

Was that something Sparano said why the team couldn't win a game?

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/sports/Dolphins-Sparano-All-Out-of-Answers-130099718.html (http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/sports/Dolphins-Sparano-All-Out-of-Answers-130099718.html)

Reading that 2nd paragraph now is really funny.... in a black hole soul-crushing sorta way.  ;D

Even if Sparano turns us around, he's still the one who steered up poorly to start with.  We got outcoached and lost games we shouldn't have for the first half of the season.

Little things, too: Reggie Bush -- we all knew how we needed to use the guy, but it took this team months to figure it out.

He also is still playing disgustingly conservatively.

What shocked me is that less than 150 players voted when there are over 1600 in the league.  Do these guys know how to read or do they simply not care?

God I love this website for the entertainment value it brings. I need a good laugh sometimes.  This goes beyond wins and losses. Nobody is going to the games because nobody has faith in the guy. Sparano is about to have his 3rd Losing Season In A Row!! Ross is losing money left and right needing to buy tickets for .35 on the dollar to avoid blackouts.

Short of making the playoffs (which won't/can't happen) Sparano isn't coming back. No way. No Chance in hell.

Ross wanted him gone last year and he had a near .500 team. Being a bottom level team this year that won't come near the 7 wins that he had last year he is dead.

The offseason was short for everybody. Not just Miami. That  isn't an excuse!

actually, it is an excuse..just a very weak one

This whole "argument" is proof that everyone in Miami is soft.  We're supposed to have sympathy because he was able to rattle off a few cheap victories?  Please.  The Sparano/Ireland regime is the symbol of mediocrity.  Call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure everyone was over being mediocre (rhyming not intentional, but feel free to make a cute catch phrase out of it like "Suck for Luck" or "Play like a Turd for Robert Griffin the third).


The ONLY way Sparano keeps his job (imo) is if he runs the table, makes the playoffs, AND wins a playoff game.  Someone tell me what the odds of that happening are?


EVERYONE said this is a make or break year for Sparano, saying that anything under 8 - 8 would be his doom.  Just because our front office doesn't have balls, doesn't mean our fan base has to as well.  Nice to know Tony, goodbye. 

Very true. Preach on!

This notion that Sparano will have his 3rd losing season in a row this year and have the worst record of all his years in Miami and this is somehow "improvement" or "progress" is laughable.

This other notion that Henne was playing better until he got hurt? In which game? He led 1 TD drive vs a crappy Browns team and then failed in crunch time late when he was handed the ball on the 40 yard line. He led 1 TD drive vs Houston and was 12-30 with only 170 yards. And in the Pats game all he did was miss big throw after big throw after big throw in the redzone when we needed him. Aside from the opening drive on opening night vs NE, Henne was WORSE than he was last year.

Which is it Mike, Henne can't throw or Marshall can't catch? Henne may have not been great this year, but he was light years ahead of last. Amd the New England game? 475 yards total offense and 3 TDs. I actually hope they resign Henne and keep Sparano- you're warped sense of football would be too entertaining to miss. -EK

Both.  a very crappy New England secondary made Henne look better than he was.  It's RARE that I defend Mike on something, but to say Henne was "light-years" better than last year is a stretch to say the very least.  Henne had no excuses to be mediocre again this year.  I'm sure someone will make the cliche "there was a lockout excuse,"  everyone experienced a lockout..so it's a cop-out to go there.  But it was a "new offense" right?  I remember Miami dropping the ball on that one.  Remember when the lockout was randomly lifted during the draft so players could receive their playbooks?  Guess who didn't have their playbooks ready..oh that's right, the Dolphins didn't.  Who's fault is that?  The Coaches. 

But anyways..BACK TO THE ORIGINAL POINT OF THIS CONVERSATION:  I'm ready for some new coaches.  :-)

BOTH! Marshall drops easy balls every week (no matter who the QB is) and drops way too many touchdowns to be considered good or elite. And Henne sucks. It's not an either or! They both are flawed players. Check that, Marshall is a flawed player and Henne just sucks.

We lost to NE! Does that matter to you? We the lost the game. When we keep score in yards let me know. We keep score in points and we lost because Henne had the offense stalled in the redzone and settled for FG's too many times.! And the Pats have one of the worst defenses in the league too; not surprising Henne's best game came vs one of the worst defenses. And the fact you have only 1 "good" game to point to in Henne's career says it all!  And if you think Henne was light years better than last year in the 3 games and 1 quarter he played you are lost. Lost in space!! And if you want Henne and Sparano back you aren't even a Dolphins fan. Go put on your Jets hat or something.

If moral victories counted, Miami would be 6 - 4 and in sole position of second place in the AFC east and tied with the Bengals for the last wildcard spot

Moral victories don't count in the standings...but when judging a coach or a team I would say that if

Team A has an 7-9 record having lost 9 of those games by less then 4 points and won 6 by 35 points or more.

and

Team B has a 9-7 record having lost 6 of them by 20 or more point and won 8 of them by less then 4 points

then there is a very good chance that team A is the better coached, better playing team.

You want him? We'll take yours.

Seriously though, no I don't want that coach, at least not in his 4th year with the team. Now if it was Sparano's first year and he starts out 0-7 and then wins a few, you see progress, but when the first year he's 11-5 and then back to back 7-9 and then starts out 0-7, he's clearly NOT what you are looking for.

You posted this 1 day too soon.  Wish I would have seen this on Wednesday, I would have told you then it was too quick to start talking about a turnaround.

Because they beat KC, Washington and Buffalo?  Henne managed a win against GB and Tennessee last year before getting hurt. Both of those wins were against better competition than any of the last 3. Henne has never been the problem, he's just never been the solution either.

Oh, I don't doubt that he could be back for 2012, in fact I created a thread that asked how many wins he needed to save his job and I believe that some will want him back at the end of the year, but it would be a mistake to bring him back.

Based on what? 3 meaningless wins? C'mon hoodie. I know why you want us to keep Sparano and it has nothing to do with him being a good coach.  >:D

No thanks.  One is one of the greatest of all times and the best of his era.  The other might be turning into a decent coach.

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I think you know me better than that.  I am honest in what I think is in the best interest of the Dolphins.  Sometimes I will add that I hope the Dolphins do the opposite of what I think is best, as I did in this thread...http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php/topic,19440.msg247070.html#msg247070.

It might actually be the that Sparano is developing into a good coach.  (Not Belichick, Shula elite level, but decent).  I wouldn't say that if I didn't believe it.  It is not like the Dolphins make decisions based on what I post. 

Sparano is still too conservative for my taste.  It's good to see him improve in terms of motivating players, but his play calling style is too old-school for me.

Which baffles me, as to why.  The team had great success (10 game improvement over prior year, qualifies as great even if you go one and done in the playoffs) when the team went balls to the wall pulling every trick out of the book and then went conserative afterwards. 

I think the wildcat is about as conservative as you can get. It was just "new" (I used the quotes because it really isn't a new concept at all) so people thought it was innovative. There really was not much of a shift except we threw out of the wildcat less. I think it is a misconception.

I get frustrated when I see us punting on 4th and 1 at midfield.  I just don't agree with that mindset, in general.  On top of that, we're clearly going nowhere, so why not go for the jugular and send a message that we're in it to win it...rather than to stretch out a game for a chance to steal a win late.

That's the culture of the NFL right now, overall, and I don't agree with it at all.  NFL teams punt WAY, WAY, WAY too much, in my opinion.

Yes, I think you're honest, but I don't think you're unbiased. You haven't seen as much of Sparano as most of us have. Wins and losses don't effect you as much. For an outsider it's easier to see 3 wins and think hey they are getting better, but most of us haven't just watched the last 3 games, we've watched the whole year and thought at the beginning of the year, we would win all 3 of those games plus a couple more. So while the 3 wins are nice the couple we shouldn't have lost show the direction of the team more than the 3 wins do.  They aren't getting better, at most they are finally getting to the point they should have been all season long and overall have played below expectations.

I was screaming that San Diego needed to punt rather than try a second 53 yarder after Denver called that timeout yesterday.

Sparano will not be back next year.  After the Harbaugh fiasco last year he must be fired before potential coaches will even talk to Miami.  Miami, at best will win 3 more games this year, to put them at 6 wins for the year; that's not enough to save Sparano, nor Ireland.  The new coach will have a pretty good base to rebuild upon though.

Peter King seems to think Miami's getting a new coach:

During the first half of the season, checking in on Tony Sparano's job status with the Miami Dolphins was a weekly endeavor. In the time since, the team has shown some spirit -- and notched some victories -- which has quieted the pitchfork-wielding mob significantly. Nevertheless, there is a feeling that Sparano's job is in jeopardy this offseason.

If Sparano is let go, some believe that Dolphins owner Stephen Ross will want to hire a "big name" head coach, such as Jon Gruden, Bill Cowher or Jeff Fisher. However, within his "Monday Morning Quarterback" column, Peter King of Sports Illustrated had some other suggestions, all from the defensive side of the ball: Mike Zimmer (Cincinnati Bengals), Chuck Pagano (Baltimore Ravens), Perry Fewell (New York Giants), Rob Ryan (Dallas Cowboys) and Mike Pettine (New York Jets). It should be noted that Pagano, Ryan and Pettine manage units that run a 3-4 base defense, while Zimmer and Fewell currently helm defenses that run a 4-3; as we know, the Dolphins run a three-man front.

^  That was from ESPN insider

here's the King link

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/11/27/week.12/4.html

Peter King is useless.  He didn't say anything there.  "potential names could possibly be..." blah blah blah.

No source, no facts, just speculation, and terrible speculation at that.  Rob Ryan's name should never be brought into a conversation pertaining to the Dolphins as long as Fat Rex is with the Jets.

Tony Sparano will be fired after the year, that's real breaking news. Thanks Pete!

The team sucks and he was almost fired after last year.  Does anyone with a brain think he is going to survive and keep his job? It's comical

Unfortunately, our owner does not have a brain

but he was smart enough to know he wanted this clown Sparano gone last year, and he had the right guy targeted as well. He won't make the same mistake twice

Based on the way your owner has been dealing with Sparano, Miami is not going to be anyone first choice, even with an opening. 

^^I'm not so sure about that. Yeah, the owner has made some mistakes, but I think he's also learned a bit from those mistakes and he has stuck with Sparano longer than I think most owners would have given him which I think won him some brownie points back. That also gives the potential coach more leverage to get pretty much whatever he wants, so it's a buyer's market so to speak.

And if I'm a coach, I'm not looking at the owner so much as looking at the team and deciding if I want to coach that team or not. I think Miami has a lot of untapped potential. They don't have a salary cap problem. They don't really have any "bad" employees in my opinion although maybe Marshall is a bit of head case. They'll have a pretty decent draft position in a year where there are a couple of potential franchise QB's which is probably the single biggest thing holding them back. 1 good draft pick and Miami could easily be the 2nd best team in the AFC East.

Miami also has a long tradition even if lately they've fallen on hard times. That means that if you can turn them around a bit, the fans will eat you up.

And I don't think the Harbaugh thing was as big of a fiasco as most would have you believe. The owner went after him, but Harbaugh had his heart set on San Fran. At that point Miami was never really in the running, but he didn't know that untill he tried. He tried to cover it up and ended up looking like an idiot, but there was no way for him to have known that Harbaugh had pretty much already made up his mind. If he would have landed Harbaugh and fired Sparano, it really wouldn't have been a big deal. The coverup was worse than the crime in my humble opinion and hopefully the owner learned from that mistake and won't make it again. If he fires Sparano right after the season and starts looking for a new one, I think he'll get quite a bit of interest.

My thought would be the opposite.  The owner is my boss.  I am the boss of the players. 

If he is supportive I can get rid of "bad players."  I can draft and sign free agents and build a team, hire the assistants I want. 

On the other hand, my first choice would not be an owner that would  interview for my replacement at the same time saying my job was safe.   

But none of what the owner has done makes you think that he's not willing to do whatever it takes in that regard. The mistakes he's made have more to do with him opening his mouth when he shouldn't, like when talking about Henne and the Dolphins chances of going to a SB and what you mention below.

No question that was a mistake and one that coaches will remember, but you have to look at the whole picture not simply 1 small part of the picture. All else being equal then that's the difference maker, but when all else is NOT equal, that's not gonna be your first selection criteria, especially to coaches who typically have very large ego's. The last thing on their mind is "How will the owner treat me if I do a crappy job", it's more "How long before I can turn this team into a SB team".

I am not saying that the Dolphins would be the last place I would want to coach.  Washington's owner is much worse, I would take Miami over the coaching for Dallas, but it wouldn't be my first choice either.  I would take the Jax gig over Miami.  Indy is likely to have an opening -- I would take that over Miami. 

Why would you take the Jax gig over Miami? Indy I can see, although I think they have more issues than people realize. Manning was compensating for a lot of problems and if he's done, you have a LOT of work to do there even if you get Luck. Luck may be a franchise QB, but replacing Manning won't be easy if it's even possible.

Cause I think the owner of the Dolphin's is an idiot.  I don't feel that way about the owner of Jax. 

Sparano firing may have been moved up with the firing of DelRio.  If Ross is going to target Gruden, Cowher, or Fisher he'll have to fire Sparano first.  If other teams start firing their coaches they would have the jump on negotiating with these guys, and Miami would be left out if they don't act.

Since the Jaguars are being sold, I doubt anyone involved in the NFL has much idea what to think about the new owner.

Aside from the ownership change, And also committed to their GM, signing Smith to a 3-year extension. That will also factor into it.

Uhhh the owner of the Jags is selling the team to a new owner so how could you evaluate the owner thanks for your opinion though  ::).

The owner of the Jags kept Del Rio wayyyyyyyyyyy too long.  Every year we hear the team should be a contender for the division every year they're 6-10 but it's nobody's fault because they have Maurice Jones Drew. 

For those that think Sparano has even a slight chance of sticking around, today should tell them all they need to know.

The owner of the Jags was also cheap and Del Rio worked for next to nothing by NFL head coaching standards. That's why he stayed around so long