The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

The man has 850 yards receiving with a 14.4 YPC average this season with 6 games to go and having the likes of Chad Henne and Matt Moore as his QB's. He is quietly having an excellent season. I know he is a headcase and I can understand the calls to get rid of him, but I would hold onto him until we have a new QB.

how many big touchdowns has he dropped? Having a good year, not a great year. Great WR's drop at most 1 TD all year, maybe none. Marshall is around 6 or 7 now. Can't drop that many and be considered "great'.

I know I am the "marshall hater" but putting all the other off the field BS aside his on the field play has been adequate, not great this year.

Brandon Marshall is absolutely not having an excellent season. He's having an "OK" season.

He's 9th in the NFL with 850 Yards (two TE's are ahead of him in yardage)
He's tied for 7th in the NFL with 59 receptions
He's tied for 51st in the NFL with 3 TDs (with a whole bunch of other players)
He's 2nd in the NFL with 10 dropped passes (Roddy White has 11 for 1st place)

He also:

- Was "briefly detained" two weeks ago
- Said he wanted to "get thrown out of the game" @ Jets on MNF
- Stumbled inexplicably out of bounds with no-one in front or to the side of him after a catch
- Dropped at least 3 TD passes that I can recall, if not more
- Has ran his mouth at least two other times during the year.

Agreeing with both jtex and MikeO is disturbing...

That said, the only problem with Marshall is his pay grade. He's getting a boat load of money every year (10+M) and not delivering that kind of performance.

HOWEVER, we should absolutely keep him unless a significant upgrade can be found AND the cap money is needed elsewhere. This regime has let way too many starters go, swapping similar levels of performance. That's not how you get better and that's not how you build depth.

I hope you put these two stats in there to show a balanced analysis, since they put him well within the top 10% of the league, which would indicate an "excellent" season.

BTW, I agree he is NOT have an "excellent" season.  However, IF he had made about ten of those important catches that he dropped it would be an excellent season.  Sadly, even as things stand now he is probably the top offensive weapon on the team.

I don't see the games, so I don't really see the dropped passes.

Still, 9th in receiving yards is excellent to me. How many wideouts on a team, 3 or 4? Times 32 teams and I would say being 9th is excellent.

We don't score TD's in general, so him not having many isn't an issue for me. His salary sucks, but he is by far our best offensive player, so let's keep him for now.

There are a lot of them. Including 6 or 7 dropped touchdowns. I lost count frankly on the exact number. Last to my knowledge it was 6 or 7, it may be more now.

How does being detained have anything to do with his play? He didn't shoot himself in the foot, like a certain Giants receiver, so that's a moot point. The Jets game he was going to get thrown out of? 109 receiving yards. Another moot point. Ran his mouth? Yeah...no great players do that. YES, he has dropped a lot of passes this year. So has Roddy White; so did TO throughout his career. Both of those guys seem like pretty great receivers. FWIW, he caught a TD against Dallas with a guy bearhugging him into the end zone. Didn't drop that one, and guess what? Miami still lost. Apparently his drops have nothing to do with Miami's win-loss record. Perhaps he has turned a corner. Perhaps not. He was leading the league in dropped passes BEFORE Miami acquired him. Everyone ignored that fact, and loved the acquisition. You can't go back now and say, "Oh, he's only average because he drops some balls," if he was "great" when he played in Denver, with better QB play and he dropped MORE balls there. Either he was great then (seems to be the consensus) and dropped balls, or he still drops balls, but was never great. You don't get it both ways.  He's on pace for 1200+ yards, which would be the fourth highest total in team history, and 86 receptions, which would be tied for second all-time. How is that not a "great" season??? -EK

Being 9th and 7th in the league in Yards and Receptions is excellent - in a silo
Being T-51st in TDs with 3 through 12 games and 2nd with 10 drops is abysmal - in a silo

Combined, it's about "OK".

You can't cherry pick which statistics you are going to use to build a case about his overall body of work. You have to include the entire body of work to analyze the body of work.

I was very hard on Marshall, but I am feeling better about him.  He's been more effective as of late, and I'm more comfortable with him being a pillar of the team in future seasons.  I wouldn't say he's having an excellent season, but for one that started off bad, he's righting the ship.  I hope this play continues to improve and he can shake off the rest of whatever is in his head.

I'm not cherry picking. He is the exact same guy he was in Denver. Lots of drops and 5-6 TDs a year. He is having yardage and reception numbers on par or better than in Denver. Don't dogs the question- how was he considered "great" there, but with similar or better stats in Miami and worse qb play, he is somehow not great anymore? -EK

I'm am not "dog" the question. You are asking the wrong person. I never said he was great to begin with. Go ask whomever said he was great to begin with.

Well he was a two-time pro bowler, so SOMEBODY thought he was great. -EK

I'm pretty sure it was most of everyone.

And THAT is exactly my point. You can't have "most of everyone" label a guy as great, vote him to the Pro Bowl two years, and then have him put up equal or better numbers THIS season, and say he's just average. The numbers speak for themselves:

Career heading into this year:
82.6 receptions, 1006.6 yards, 5.6 TD's per year, 12.25 drops per season

This year's pace:
85.8 receptions (better), 1236.4 yards (better), 4.36 TD's (a whopping 1.2 TD difference....wow....), 14.55 drops (again, a whopping difference of 2.3).

If his numbers were good enough to make him "great" before, they're good enough now. They haven't changed. Is everyone just really that blind? He has ALWAYS dropped balls, he has NEVER been a big time TD guy, and he is no different now. Miami got exactly what they thought they were getting, and everyone loved it and said "Yippee, skippy, we got a number one receiver," without actually looking at what he was. Not his fault now, if he's still the same player and fans think he should somehow magically be better because, golly gee, now he's playing for "our" team. Get a clue before you bash they guy. He's having a GREAT year. His stats are almost exactly the same as Roddy White's (1 less drop, 1 less TD, 4 fewer catches, 20 more yards), but I doubt that White catches so much heat from "fans" of his team. -EK

Can anyone give me one receiver we have had in the last 10 years that was better than Brandon Marshall has been since he has been here?

Chris Chambers in 2005.

Not really better (per game).  But Chambers did have a few good years with us so I am not trying to slight him or anything.  Still, he only broke 1000 yards one season.  Average out Chambers career in Miami (per game) and it really isn't as good as Marshall has been (per game).  Remember, Marshall missed two games last year.

Spider only - Who do you think is the better receiver, Chambers or Marshall?  And I don't mean today obviously.  Pretend Chambers and Marshall entered the league at the same time.

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My point is this...  Marshall is the best receiver we have had around here for a really long time.  Why would anyone give a rats ass what we pay him?  Be freakin' happy and stop hatin' on the guy.  Does he have some drops?  Yes.  But think about how many times Henne overthrew him.  Think of how many TDs he missed out on because Henne couldn't even get the ball in his general area last year.  Think of how he missed all of training camp last year due to hip surgery and still kicked ass.  Think of how he went from Henning's shit hole offense and had to move into a totally new offense with very little offseason and he is still kicking ass.

The guy is awesome, IMO.  And if the negative ass Miami fans run him off, I will be so disappointed.  I think the guy will just continue to get better as we start to straighten this team out.

You're preaching to the choir; I think Marshall is the best skill-position player on the team, by a not-insignificant margin.

That being said, Chambers' 2005 was significantly better than Marshall's 2010 (and I think it's fair to factor injuries when evaluating players, especially since Marshall has played all 16 games exactly once in his 6-year career).

Chambers- 82 catches/1118 yds/11 TDs
Marshall- 86 catches/1014 yds/3 TDs

That's not even a close comparison.

We are probably going to have to agree to disagree when it comes to your "not even close" comment.

I just don't see how 100 more yards with 2 more games is "not even close".  And yes, I see the TD stat as well.  But that is the problem with stats; they just don't really tell the story.

Recall how many times Marshall was targeted in the red zone in 2010 and Henne blatantly blew the throw.  It was pathetic. 

Also recall the question...  What receiver have we had in Miami in the last 10 years that was better than Brandon Marshall has been in Miami?  It isn't a question that says anything about who had a better year in TD column or in the yardage column.  It is a subjective question. 

So if you don't mind, Spider.  Would you answer the subjective question...  Who is/was the better receiver, Marshall or Chambers?  I won't freak if you say Chambers because I think he was a reasonably close second.  But still, it would be hard not to question the judgement of someone who says Marshall isn't the best we have had here in a very long time.

You make some decent points. But being the best WR on a franchise that has been bad to god awful for a decade now, so what?! It's like claiming to be the smartest stooge out of the 3 stooges, yeah you are the smartest of the bunch, but who cares you are still an idiot! Marshall has been the best WR, ok but that still doesn't make him anything special. Just the best of a bad bunch.

And because we are in a salary cap era doesn't mean he is worth his cap number. Whoever our next GM is I hope they try to re-work Marshall's deal or go play hard ball "Vernon Carey Style" like we did with him in August.

And for every Henne overthrow of Marshall in the endzone the past 2 years there is an equal amount of easy Marshall drops in the endzone. It all balances out in the end.

Just so I understand, are you saying cut Marshall if he doesn't renegotiate his contract? 

The way I see it, we have at least 4 receivers on the roster each year.  We have replaced every receiver on the roster with the new regime through a mix of drafting and free agency.  Each year Marshall will have at least 6 receivers in camp competing to dethrone him as the #1 guy.  If we ever have someone that is better than him, I will gladly jump on board and say that he should not be paid #1 money and if he doesn't renegotiate then he can go.  But until that time, I have no problem paying the guy enough to keep him satisfied while he patiently waits for us to get our QB situation resolved.

NO! But try whatever it takes to get that contract reduced. It has to be re-worked. The Fins are getting screwed on this deal big-time

OK, not sure it will work, but OK. 

The thing is that he isn't producing points but he is producing in catches per game and yards per game.  His drop numbers are up, but he gets targeted a lot.  So even if he is underproducing considering his contract, it isn't by so much that I think he would negotiate.

To be honest, when I think of incompletions to Marshall in the end zone (in 2010), the vast majority were straight up drops by him.  I haven't been able to see all the games this year, but of the ones I have, I think every TD drop was Marshall's fault.

I mean, Marshall is good, and probably the best we have had since Marino's days.  That being said, he hasn't even completed 2 years in Miami yet, he almost never plays a full season (over his career), and the best year he's turned in (so far) was inferior to that of our last legitimate #1.

I think you have to be prepared to cut, or else you're just bluffing.  What's to "try"?