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TDMMC Forums => Other Sports Talk => Topic started by: EDGECRUSHER on December 11, 2011, 12:52:23 am



Title: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: EDGECRUSHER on December 11, 2011, 12:52:23 am
They tested him for steroids and he had an elevated testosterone level. Further testing revealed it was synthetic, meaning steroids. He is appealing, but if he fails he will be suspended for 50 games.

Your reigning NL MVP everyone! That's what you get for overlooking Matt Kemp!


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: Brian Fein on December 11, 2011, 01:16:45 am
I had read that he is appealing because he took a second test and it came up negative..


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: EDGECRUSHER on December 11, 2011, 03:07:05 am
He can appeal all he wants, if his urine tested positive for synthetic testosterone, then he is screwed. It won't matter what a second urine test shows if his first came back dirty.

Truth be told, these guys are millionaires, they shouldn't be getting caught. I find it shocking they can't bribe their way to get fake urine or know when the test will take place. No excuses.


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: AZ Fins Fan 55 on December 12, 2011, 02:58:08 pm
Yeah I am kind of pissed they knew about this before the voting for MVP but they kept it a secret until after he was awarded the MVP. I like Braun too but this certainly puts a black mark on him if it turns out to be legit.


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: bsmooth on December 12, 2011, 06:27:35 pm
Yeah I am kind of pissed they knew about this before the voting for MVP but they kept it a secret until after he was awarded the MVP. I like Braun too but this certainly puts a black mark on him if it turns out to be legit.



I read yesterday that they decided that since he came up positive in the playoffs and they were voting on his regular season achievements, it was different. As if he was not using in the regular season too.


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: EDGECRUSHER on December 13, 2011, 01:43:55 am
I could be wrong, but I think all ballots for MVP are supposed to be handed in before the playoffs start, so that the voters aren't swayed by playoff performances.


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: AZ Fins Fan 55 on December 13, 2011, 04:42:09 pm

As if he was not using in the regular season too.

Exactly..... ::)


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: tubba marxxx on December 13, 2011, 07:57:20 pm
Yet another reason why Matt Kemp should have been NL MVP


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: MaineDolFan on December 13, 2011, 08:48:54 pm
I am not 100% certain, but I thought a 2nd test had to be a blood draw versus urine (which would make a very strong appeal).  Jury still out on this one.  IF the second test WAS blood, and that was clean, I would lean towards him being clean all along.


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: EDGECRUSHER on December 13, 2011, 11:01:43 pm
It's hard to get a good opinion on this, because some sources say that the testosterone levels were ridiculously high while others say it wasn't for steroids at all. Odds are, he was using steroids if he even got one positive test. False positives are not a common occurrence.


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: Landshark on February 25, 2012, 12:26:39 pm
Looks like he was cleared and will not have to serve the suspension.  The kicker was that the first sample was held for almost two days before being sent off to the lab.  That tossed up the possibility that someone could have tampered with it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/24/ryan-braun-suspension-overturned-chain-of-custody_n_1300622.html


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: bsmooth on February 26, 2012, 05:37:13 am
Looks like he was cleared and will not have to serve the suspension.  The kicker was that the first sample was held for almost two days before being sent off to the lab.  That tossed up the possibility that someone could have tampered with it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/24/ryan-braun-suspension-overturned-chain-of-custody_n_1300622.html

Yeah, nothing like a technicality to absolve you of your cheating.


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: Spider-Dan on February 26, 2012, 10:17:04 am
Yes, a "technicality" like someone taking your test sample home with them for the weekend when they were supposed to mail it the same day.


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: MaineDolFan on February 26, 2012, 11:09:22 am
Medically speaking, urine needs to be kept at a specific temperature for cultures to remain viable for accurate testing for anything: UTI's, STD's, anything.  The fact that they can't validate where the urine was, what temperature it was kept at...that alone tosses it out for me.  I don't need to hear any more.  Over 15 FedEx locations were open, ones who are professionally trained to deal with medical samples.  It wasn't handled well.


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: Landshark on February 26, 2012, 11:34:09 am
Medically speaking, urine needs to be kept at a specific temperature for cultures to remain viable for accurate testing for anything: UTI's, STD's, anything.  The fact that they can't validate where the urine was, what temperature it was kept at...that alone tosses it out for me.  I don't need to hear any more.  Over 15 FedEx locations were open, ones who are professionally trained to deal with medical samples.  It wasn't handled well.

I agree.  Add to the fact that his second test (a blood draw) came up clean pretty much seals the deal for me.


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: masterfins on February 26, 2012, 01:08:30 pm
Not to mention the levels were astronomically high, I'm usually a skeptic, but something smells bad here.


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: MaineDolFan on February 27, 2012, 10:07:51 am
^^That IS weird.

x3 higher than a steroid user.  Something wasn't right with that.  Yet, he physically shows no signs of being a user and his numbers have been the model of consistency from his rookie year to now.  No spikes in anything.  That being said...none of that is in my wheel house.  Don't know much about PEDs, so I can't speak to that. 

I can speak to testing.  I did a clinical at an STD clinic and I am very familiar with how quickly a urine sample can go bad and what can can cause a false negative or a false positive.  There is nothing worse than then feeling that you might have sent someone on the street with a false negative due to mishandling a sample.  A false positive?  Not as large a deal, the person is treated and they move on.

In this case the sample sat for over 40 hours in conditions only known to the handler.  Unacceptable.  The handler, who everyone says has been doing this a long time, should have known better.  It's as simple as that.  As soon as the sample became compromised, in any way, the validity of the test was out the window in my eyes.


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: tubba marxxx on February 27, 2012, 02:51:49 pm
Yeah, nothing like a technicality to absolve you of your cheating.



For the record, I was the first one to bash Braun for this (I left a comment saying how Kemp should've been MVP).  Alas, I'm enjoying my plate of crow just like everyone else.  Which brings me to the comment from bsmooth I quoted above.  After everything has been resolved and it's been proven that Braun is innocent, to label him still as a "cheater" is just ignorant.  Did you actually bother to read/watch anything on the story before making your comment?


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: bsmooth on February 27, 2012, 06:45:25 pm


For the record, I was the first one to bash Braun for this (I left a comment saying how Kemp should've been MVP).  Alas, I'm enjoying my plate of crow just like everyone else.  Which brings me to the comment from bsmooth I quoted above.  After everything has been resolved and it's been proven that Braun is innocent, to label him still as a "cheater" is just ignorant.  Did you actually bother to read/watch anything on the story before making your comment?

Yes, I did. He was not cleared of not using performance enhancing drugs. He was cleared on a technicality.


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: EDGECRUSHER on February 27, 2012, 07:09:22 pm
There are steroids you can take that leave your system VERY quickly, like within 36 hours. They are used more for recovery than adding muscle. To get an "insanely high testosterone level", you have to be taking one of those, or injecting yourself as you urinate.

There is no doubt in my mind that he was taking steroids, but there was enough doubt to overturn it. The lab guy didn't know the hours of the Fedex and should have. He kept it at the proper temperature, but it raises doubt because he had it in his possession for so long.

So, overturning the suspension was the right call LEGALLY, but Ryan Braun is still a cheater. Nobody wins.


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: tubba marxxx on February 27, 2012, 07:46:13 pm
Yes, I did. He was not cleared of not using performance enhancing drugs. He was cleared on a technicality.



Thank you for saying the same thing twice  ::)


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: MaineDolFan on February 28, 2012, 01:32:58 pm
There are steroids you can take that leave your system VERY quickly, like within 36 hours. They are used more for recovery than adding muscle. To get an "insanely high testosterone level", you have to be taking one of those, or injecting yourself as you urinate.

This is medically false.  There are masking agents that help hide it.  The active ingredients in a yogurt don't fully leave your system in that time.  There isn't a steroid on the planet that won't leave a residual in your system after that length of time.

The testing was three times higher than any other baseball player has been busted at.  Those are some pretty large numbers, especially when you review the numbers of some of the minor league kids who have been caught.  Braun doesn't have the appearance of someone who has been cycling at that rate (nor does his performance indicate it).

I personally error on Braun's side on this one, but I also understand why people sniff and smell smoke.  Where there's smoke, there's fire.


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: bsmooth on February 28, 2012, 07:55:16 pm

Thank you for saying the same thing twice  ::)

What do you want? He was not cleared from taking it. The only reason he is not being suspended is over the technicality that the sample was not sent quickly enough to the lab.
In a sport with a history of use of illegal drugs to enhance performance, this is not even close to being absolved.  So his career will resume, but there will always be a cloud that he may/may not have used performance enhancers.
If you do not like it fine, but it does not make what I said any less true.


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: bsmooth on February 28, 2012, 07:56:57 pm
I personally error on Braun's side on this one, but I also understand why people sniff and smell smoke.  Where there's smoke, there's fire.

Especially in a sport that has suffered through the "steroid era".


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: Spider-Dan on February 28, 2012, 11:37:36 pm
What do you want? He was not cleared from taking it.
In the absence of a time machine, how do you propose that Braun prove his innocence?  They took another sample after the first positive result, and it was (obviously) clean.


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: badger6 on February 29, 2012, 09:32:22 pm
Personally, I could care less if they all juice up as much as they want. Sports is nothing more than entertainment and I want entertainment. These are adults that make and spend more money than all of us here make put together. If they want to take this stuff, it's up to them. A high percentage of athletes in all sports use this stuff who never get caught. Then when the odds finally catch up with someone and they get caught, everyone howls like no tomorrow. People worry about such silly things !!!


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: masterfins on March 01, 2012, 01:47:59 pm
^^^ The only problem with your point of view is that it pushes players that don't want to use steroids into using them, or eliminated from playing professional sports because they can't compete with those using steroids.  Similar to second hand smoke, I don't want to be subject to someone elses cigarette smoke when I go out to eat, etc.  I do believe players should be able to use steroids when recuperating from injuries, they would just have to have a period of not playing so many days after steroid use is discontinued.


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: Landshark on May 14, 2012, 01:23:10 pm
Had to bump this because another player was let off the hook for the same reason Ryan Braun was.

 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/baseball/mlb/05/14/alfonzo-suspension-dropped.ap/index.html?xid=siextra_051412


Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: Sunstroke on May 14, 2012, 03:35:28 pm

Yeah, but when it's a superstar major leaguer like Braun, it's news. When it's a scrub/nobody AAA catcher...not so much. ;)





Title: Re: Ryan Braun Busted for Steroids
Post by: Landshark on May 14, 2012, 04:25:41 pm
Yeah, but when it's a superstar major leaguer like Braun, it's news. When it's a scrub/nobody AAA catcher...not so much. ;)

I agree there, but with two incidents of mishandled samples, wouldn't someone in MLB want to step in and reevaluate the whole testing process?