The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

I set this up so as not to derail the draft order thread.  Do you think Indy would keep Peyton Manning if they are able to get Andrew Luck?  Will the Saints franchise Drew Brees?  Who else is out there?  Discuss

So we're assuming the Dolphins missed out on a QB in the draft right?  Okay


http://footballsfuture.com/freeagents.html

Drew Brees (NO)
Matt Flynn (GB)
Alex Smith (SF)
Kyle Orton (KC)
Jason Campbell (OAK)
Donovan McNabb (FA)
Chris Redman (ATL)
Derek Anderson (CAR)
Shaun Hill (DET)
Drew Stanton (DET)
Brady Quinn (DEN)
David Garrard (FA)
Luke McCown (JAC)
Chad Henne (MIA)
Sage Rosenfels (MIA)
David Carr (NYG)
Mark Brunell (NYJ)
Kevin O'Connell (NYJ)
Kyle Boller (OAK)
Vince Young (PHI)
Charlie Batch (PIT)
Dennis Dixon (PIT)
Byron Leftwich (PIT)
Charlie Whitehurst (SEA)
A.J. Feeley (STL)
Josh Johnson (TB)
Rex Grossman (WAS)
Richard Bartel (ARZ) - Restricted
Max Hall (ARZ) - Exclusive Rights
Tyler Palko (KC) - Restricted
Brian Hoyer (NE) - Restricted
Chase Daniel (NO) - Restricted



Take your pick




Brees -  Probably won't happen.  Miami has a history of passing on this guy

Flynn - I've heard a lot of great things about this kid.  Keep and eye out for this week's game against the Lions.  With the number 1 seed locked up, and the chase for perfection long gone, this should be the Matt Flynn audition for 31 other teams.  No sense in starting Aaron Rodgers and risking injury with everything locked up.

Alex Smith - Barring some DREADFUL playoff performance (see Jake Delhomme in 2007), Smith will probably be the guy in SF for a couple more years.  However, a trade for Colin Kaepernick become and interesting option.


I won't bother typing anymore because frankly, beyond Brees, Flynn, Kaepernick, or MAYBE a trade to Carolina for Jimmy Clausen, I don't see any QB on that list of Free Agents that would be considered an upgrade from Matt Moore.

There's no reason for Brees to leave New Orleans.  He's an icon and he does well in that system.  He's won, he's rich, he's beloved.  This after he had trouble elsewhere.  I can't imagine either side ending that marriage.

If I was going to go after a QB, I'd go after Luck.  Trade away this draft and next year, too.  Then get free agents from there.  We have enough building blocks to get started.

Supposedly the Saints can't afford to keep him without signing the franchise tag.  Which is something he's already said he wouldn't do.  So Brees being a FA might be more realistic than most people think

The Saints will cut everyone else on their roster before getting rid of Brees.   And Brees has NO SAY in the franchise tag. Either he signs it or he doesn't play, it's that simple. There is a 0.0% chance Brees is a free agent.  Brees is not leaving New Orleans and its downright laughable to think so.

Flynn would be in play for a team like the Browns who owns 2 first round picks and one will be late (Atlanta's).

Alex Smith isn't very good. They don't ask him to do much in SF. Just not lose them the game essentially. He doesn't win games or make plays himself for the most part. If that team was in a decent division he wouldn't be having the year he is having.

Reminds me a lot of the year that Pennington had in 2008.  Great year, wouldn't count on him doing it again.

Doesn't remind me much of Pennington at all. In 2008, Chad was 32 years old and had already gone under the knife twice for major shoulder surgeries.

Alex is 27, and doesn't have anywhere near the level of shoulder issues that Chad had.

I believe we can count on Alex having similar seasons for the next 2-3 years, or until Kaepernick shows that he's a better NFL QB and takes the reins of the 49ers offense.

This is the worst idea ever.  This is going ALL IN on one player.  If he busts, which is really 50/50, you are sunk for the next 4-8 seasons.

They said that about Montana, Bledsoe, Favre....

Bledsoe is not a reasonable comparison, since everyone expected Bledsoe to go when his backup won the first Super Bowl in the team's history.

As far as Montana and Favre go, given that Brees is 32, you're talking about SF letting Montana walk in 1988 or GB letting Favre walk in 2001.  Both ideas are absurd.

If you want to talk about NO letting Brees walk in 2016, sure, we can have a discussion.  But in 2011?  That's ludicrous.

Because drafting conservatively has gone so well for us? Am I missing something or aren't we, and haven't we been for a while, a crap team? There comes a time when you have to change up what you've been doing. When you've been bad as long as we have I wouldn't think it would be too difficult to take a risk or two.

Trading away 2 entire drafts worth of picks for 1 player is not a risk, its insanity.  Why does everyone think this guy is such a sure thing? 

Because he won the Heisman....oh shit....never mind. 

Yeah, Luck only finished second in the Heisman race.  That should negatively impact his pro value to exactly the same extent that it impacted two other highly-touted QBs, John Elway and Peyton Manning.

This isn't that complicated; scouts believe that Luck will have the same impact in the NFL that Elway had.  So you have two questions to answer:

1) Do you believe the scouts' assessment of Luck is accurate?
2) If so, would you be willing to give up two drafts to acquire 1983 John Elway?

If you don't think the assessment of Luck is accurate, then this is the easiest decision in the world: pass on Luck (and hope one of your rivals trades away their future for him instead).  But that's not really what we're talking about, is it?

If you do think the assessment is accurate, then how many picks is it worth to you to get that kind of QB on your roster?  Two 1sts?  Three 1sts?  It's all subjective at that point.

I would be alright with trading this years' draft picks for Luck, or RGIII, but not future draft picks, that's just crazy.  If you think the Fins are laughing stocks now, it would be unbearable if they traded multiple drafts for one player.  Look how it worked out for Ditka and the Saints, or what Minny did in its wholesale trade with Dallas.

They did?  I never heard that.

Montana and Favre were at the end of their careers and someone else took their job.  Same with Bledsoe, really.  This is not a case of someone waiting in the wings to take Brees' spot.

I agree but I wouldn't say Bledsoe.  He still played for 5 more seasons after leaving the Patriots and probably could have played longer, he was just unwilling to be a back-up

Not exactly two entire drafts but I wouldn't mind giving up a slew of picks to move up to get Luck.  With the way this team is built, there is some young talent for the foundation.  All you need is a good quarterback

Yes, there are well-publicized examples of teams that traded away their drafts and didn't win anything.  (Of course, there are also the examples like Eli Manning.)

However, for every example of a team that traded away a bunch of picks and busted, there are twenty examples of teams who kept all their picks and still sucked anyway.

as well as 40 examples of teams that kept all their picks, drafted wisely, and won something with the players they gained.

I wonder how much of this discussion is founded upon the myth that Jeff Ireland is a terrible GM.

If we don't have a QB we are sunk for the next 4-8 seasons anyway. Gotta take a risk in this league at some point. NOT taking a risk has gotten us no place. Time for Plan B!

That's not a myth.

Which would you say there are more of in the NFL: teams that draft wisely and win, or teams that draft poorly and lose?

Has this front office convinced you that they will select productive players with the picks we keep?

What the hell. Keep Moore and Henne? F that, get me a real QB asap !!!

This conversation is relative.  Some general observations from various threads:  Quarterback as been documented for 13 years now, so I won't touch that.  Apparently Daniel Thomas is a bust and Reggie bush still isn't a true number one RB, so we could go running back.  Apparently, Brandon Marshall is a worthless headache, so we need a WR to replace him.  Apparently we're trading Jake Long, so we could draft an offensive tackle to replace him..see also: Marc Colombo.  Pretty much every member of the defensive line is going to be a Free Agent, and with our owner spending money on things like a new night club in the stadium as opposed to talent on the football field, we probably will need to draft some defensive line help seeing as we can't "afford" to retain anyone.  Apparently, Koa Misi and Kevin Burnett suck so we could steer towards some linebacker help.  Apparently, Sean Smith, Reshad Jones, and Chris Clemons all suck so we, apparently, need some secondary help.


God this team is in shambles according to what I've read.

Sounds like you're describing a 5-10 team.

exactly sounds like you are describing a 5 win team who's only wins have come against teams that are in worse shape than our fins.

So allow me to resurrect this original topic. 


"What if the Dolphins are unable to draft a QB"


So assuming that Luck, Griffin, and Jones are all off the board by the time Miami drafts, and/or the Dolphins were unable to trade up and are stuck in the 8 - 10 range, who would you like to see drafted?

^^ Ryan Tannehill QB A&M, but only if Landry Jones isn't there and the only way I think he's not there is if either him or RG3 don't enter the draft.

And then take Barkley next year in the first round. Keep picking QB's in the first round till you hit on one. It's bound to be a better strategy than keep on picking offensive lineman in the first round.

Bledsoe lost his job to Brady.  Bledsoe got hurt and Brady lit the team on fire and won a Super Bowl never to look back.

If Miami can't get a top QB in the draft, I would rather look at Matt Flynn from GB before going and looking at 2nd tier QB's in the draft. I know we have gone down the "other teams backups" route before and it blew up in our face, but Flynn might be a little different in that he might be able to actually play a little.

I don't know what GB expects for him in return, a 2nd rounder and I would think the Fins have to think long and hard about it. If its a conditional 3rd or something then you pull the trigger I would believe.

Problem is you will probably need to be the worst team in the league to get Barkley and have the #1 pick. What Luck is this year, Barkley will be next year. The clear cut #1 overall pick most likely. Not as much hype as Luck but he will be "the guy" entering next year.

Touching back on this, because it's now painfully obvious that Miami is going to miss out on a QB again in the Draft (at least a first rounder).


:: sigh ::


Ok, so with the 8th/9th pick (depending on the coin toss with Carolina), I'd be okay with Miami drafting any of these guys:

Quinton Coples
Dre Kirkpatrick
Riley Reiff
Jonathan Martin
Devon Still
Mark Barron

If there isn't a guy on the board that will clearly be significantly better than Moore.  Don't draft a QB go with someone who will improve the team. 

Couldn't agree more.

Right now, there isn't.  Hence the revist

Jeff Ireland graduated from Baylor

RGIII is from Baylor

Don't be shocked to see Ireland go all in and give up THREE 1st round picks to move up and take him, If the Fins hire McCoy in fact I would expect it to be honest.

The Fins couldn't get the head coach they want, to sell tickets they need someone to excite the fan base. This is also a business, don't forget that!

Plus it wouldn't hurt for St. Louis's new coach to swap picks with us as a consolation prize

If we don't draft a QB, I'm in favor of keeping Moore as your starter.

I'm not really a fan of chasing down backups from around the league.

Alex Smith, Joe Flacco and to some extent the hot and cold Eli Manning are currently disproving the theory that you can't reach the superbowl unless you have a standout QB...

We aren't in a position to draft a QB because although we could use an upgrade there, we get solid play out of Moore and we are better off focussing on obvious areas of deficiency.

I agree with whoever said if you can't get an upgrade, don't draft a QB.

I'm content to bring in Flynn as long as we don't pay him as a starter, if he wants a shot at being a legit starter he earns the paycheck not the other way around.

Let me get this straight. Its OK to give up 3 1st round picks from a depleted team, just to draft a QB. So you would be willing to handicap the very QB you traded up for. If the team had no talent, they would have the no. 1 or 2 pick without a trade. This team would be set back whether or not RG 3 pans out or not. Matt Moore isn't garbage. Which is why this is a perfect opportunity to address other areas of need.
You're right. This is a business. Which is why I look at Oakland's situation. No 1st or 2nd Rd picks and they are stuck with Carson Palmer. If RG3 falls in the draft, take him. Otherwise, no deal.

1) QB is the most important position, so yes I am willing to give up the farm

2) The "draft" isn't the only way to add players to a team. And there is more than 1 round of the draft.

3) I don't see it as a handicap by making a BIG move to get a QB. You need a QB to win in this league, if you don't have one you are a bottom feeding loser of a franchise! Period!

4) Matt Moore IS garbage.

5) The ONLY area of need that matters right now is QB. Fix the QB position and everything else falls into place. Nobody has won a super bowl because they drafted a RG in the first round, sorry.

6) So because Oakland made a bad trade no team should ever trade a draft pick again? don't get that logic

7) Set back? We make no trade and trot out Matt Moore at QB or go sign Orton or Campbell and we are still set back because they all suck. For once, Miami needs to be PROACTIVE!! Make a big move. They don't pass out rings for teams that hold onto draft picks and stay under the cap. Let's TRY and win for once! Go big!

Selling the farm to buy a cow, never works out for the farmer. Ask New Orleans how that Ricky Williams trade worked out. There's no way I would trade up in this years draft to pick a QB. This is a golden opportunity to address other needs. This is why:

Matt Moore is in the last year of his contract. Which means that he is in audition mode. He is not as bad as you believe he is. Jay Fiedler was bad. He has the ability to lead this team. He may never be Tom Brady. He doesn't have to be. Only three other Q's are at that 'elite" level. Two of them are at home watching like everybody else. The other one didn't play all year. The idea that you HAVE to have an "elite" QB to win in this league is a bogus argument. It's bogus because the NFL isn't the NBS. Every "elite" QB has something in common this season. No ground game with weak defenses. And that is why balance is more important. All your QB has to do is make plays like everybody else. You sell the farm, you won't have anybody else making plays. And then you'll be right back here complaining about the "help" your franchise QB doesn't have. The same "help" you traded away.
Rome wasn't built in a day, neither will this franchise be. But it can be destroyed in a day.

You want status quo.....status quo can't work with this group. Bringing back the same bunch and expecting more than 6 wins is laughable.

But bringing back the same bunch with an unproven QB who is coming out early after one spectacular year makes this team a contender? Really? That's your argument for mortgaging the house?

And if that fails? Then what, when you're stuck with the same bunch give or take a few re-treads signed in free agency, who can't get more than 6 wins, getting high round draft picks which you traded away 2 years ago for the QB that never was. That's an acceptable outcome? Such a short sighted view.

If the phins make this move, and fail, 2 years down the line when the organisation is still recovering and scraping together 2 and 3 win seasons will you be saying "that's ok, because they took a shot to change the status quo!"...hopefully I'll not have to find out the answer to that question but I suspect most people on here know the answer.

I kind of didn't want to make this extra point because it distracts from my argument above, but, They only got 6 wins after Moore came in, he wasn't given a chance to win the first few games so to say they won't win more than 6 is slightly unfair to them.

NO!!! But you draft a young QB to begin the process of having a franchise QB for the next 10-15 years! Let him take his lumps now and be the man for many many years. Matt Moore isn't a franchise QB. He was bad in Carolina and bad in Miami. He is a losing QB with no track record of success in the NFL. If Miami drafts a QB in the Top 10 of the draft somewhere you are drafting a franchise QB! That doesn't mean you win a Super Bowl in a year, it means you are moving towards building your franchise around him.

And if it fails, it fails. Miami has failed for 10 years, how is it any different? 1 playoff win in 13 years. That's failure. SO fail the same or fail new way. What's the difference. Lets swing for the fences and try something different that MAY work. What they are doing now DOESN'T work and we have a decade of results to prove it!

And how do you plan on building this franchise by mortgaging the house? How is it, that your "franchise" QB is allowed to take his lumps, but Matt Moore isn't? The man got 6 wins under 2 different head coaches in the same season. How is that losing? Costing the franchise another 10 years with that draft strategy is losing. A new QB, with a new HC & OC, with a GM on a short leash, without future draft picks is a recipe for disaster. There is no blueprint in that scenario. None. Then again I forgot that Dan Marino, Brett Favre, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Kurt Warner,  Jim Kelly,  Joe Montana, & Roger Staubach were all top 10 draft picks.

Interesting, and actually I don't have a problem with forcing chance to try and turn the tide of fortunes, I just disagree with how much you spend to do it.

However, what is the recent track record of teams who have drafted QB's and let them "take their lumps now", and of the teams you're about to quote at me, is it any better than a 50/50 proposition? For every Cam Newton there's a Blaine Gabbert...for every Andy Dalton there's a Christian Ponder.

I agree with you. If RG III were to fall in our lap, I wouldn't have a problem. I would still want to consider other areas. But, I couldn't pass on that opportunity either.

I hate the term franchise QB. Drafting one in the first round doesn't mean you are drafting one, it just means you hope you drafted one. Also, isn't just about every offense built around the QB regardless of who it is? I hate to open this for debate again but according to your theory, Tim Tebow is an incredibly effective franchise QB because I've never seen an offense built specifically around a QB more then that one.

+1

Also I am pretty sure Tom Brady and Tony Romo are franchise QBs.  Neither of them were drafted in the first round.  Heck, one wasn't even drafted. 

Damn this shit gets old. LOL

It does get old doesn't it? I agree that Matt Moore is currently our best option. Hamstringing the team on the chance that moving up gets a franchise QB at the cost of several draft picks, when the teap has SO many holes to fill seems illiogical to me. If we could get someone young and healthy cheap, that's one thing, but with the laundry list of upgrades the team needs, going "all in" with the belief that because it's a different approach that somehow guarantees succes doesn't pan out with the real-life situations. Since 1992, the list of first round QB's who either sucked or were pathetically average, but were taken because their team "needed" a QB is a mile long, and FAR outweighs the few who were great:
1992: David Klingler, Dave Brown, Tommy Maddux
1993: Drew Bledsoe, Rick Mirer
1995: Steve McNair, Kerry Collins
1997: Jim Druckenmiller
1998: Manning and Leaf
1999: Tim Couch, Donovan McNabb, Akili Smith, Daunte Culpepper, Cade McNown
2000: Chad Pennington
2001: Michael VIck
2002: David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey
2003: Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman
2004: Eli, Rivers, Ben, JP Losman
2005: Alex Smith, Jason Campbell
2006: Vince Young, Matt Leinart
2007: JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn
2008: Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco
2009: Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman
2010: Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow
2011: Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder

What I see in this list- looking as objectively as I can- are maybe 10 or so guys, at the height of their careers could be considered "elite," a handful of guys who are serviceable, and the rest are not so good. That's like 16-18 out of 45. Not good odds. I also see teams like Cleveland, Cincy, SF, and Jax using multiple first round picks to improve at the position, and their picks have yet to make a huge impact or made no positive impact on the teams at all (holding out judgement on  Smith, who keeps being referred to as a "game manager.") My point is that many of these teams kept "swinging for the fences" on first round QB selections, and they still stunk. It's a total crapshoot at best, so IMO giving up multiple picks and multiple chances to improve your team in multiple areas doesn't make sense. That's my opinion. Take it for what it's worth. -EK

I think we should get a QB in the 8th rd. or look at the CFL and Home Depot for our QB. We'll save lots of money and our odds are just as good as picking someone in the first round.

LOL, sadly, that might actually be true. -EK

What do you think Miami is giving up entire drafts? Just a couple first round picks for crying out loud! Not giving up every pick for 5 years for christ sakes!

Matt Moore has been in the league for 5+ years, he has no more lumps to take. He is who he is! And you can't ignore his Carolina days where hew as god awful. And this year in Miami vs every "GOOD" team he faced, he lost! Enough with the Matt Moore talk. He is a career back-up, nothing more.

And who says the GM is on a short leash, what team do you follow? Ireland has job security like a Supreme Court Judge

I hate this stat.

It's obvious.  Of course more 1st round QBs fail than work out.  That's because most QBs fail, period.  If you look at the percentage of QBs that work out drafted in the first vs the percentage of those that work out drafted in all other rounds, your 1st round picks are going to have a higher success rate, just like at any position.

Miami hasn't taken a QB in Rd 1 since 1983. And some people are afraid to take now one for a million silly reasons. If you don't feel RGIII is the guy, then don't trade up. If you feel he is a franchise QB and a legit NFL QB and you have the opportunity to, then do it. Give up a couple first round picks, not every draft pick. Just a couple first rounders, not the end of the world.  Miami has tried EVERYTHING but drafting a franchise QB and it has all failed. Free agency, trades, taking QB's late in the draft, waiver wire....everything, it has blown up in their face a million times. And some fans want more of the same. It's F'n amazing! It really is. Something fails over and over again, lets try the same failed blueprint again.

While half the league makes a bold move to go get a guy to build their offense around Miami fans want the team to sit around with their balls in their purse hoping to get lucky and have lightening  strike and hand them a QB. Yeah, maybe being bold and making a big move for a QB doesnt' work. But I know what Miami has done the last 12 years hasn't and won't work either! GO FOR IT!

And just because a team was DUMB and invested in the wrong guy doesn't mean you give up and don't try. You have enough confidence in the people making your draft picks that they will pick the RIGHT guy!

Just a couple of 1st Rounders? Really? If the person we would be trading up for wasn't a Heisman winning QB, maybe. If Miami wasn't desperate for a QB, maybe. There's no way Miami gets off that easy.

And I'm supposed to forget what Moore did at Miami, but judge him by what he did at Carolina? Are you kidding? Obviously not. Which is scary.

Why the Carolina years don't count? Name the winning team Moore beat this year?  I know he beat a bad Buffalo team twice, Washington, KC, and Oakland. Any of those guys in the playoffs? Check that, name 1 winning team Matt Moore has beaten since the start of the 2010 season. I will wait.

I know when he played decent teams this year like NE, Giants, Philly, Dallas, Denver....HE LOST!

I am supposed to be impressed? Please! Beat a good team then talk to me. Moore hasn't beat a good team in 2 whole seasons now when he has started.

Because I keep forgetting that the QB is also responsible for missed FG's and missed defensive assignments.
Why don't the Carolina years count? Because he doesn't play there anymore.
I don't expect you to be impressed. That takes an act of God.
What does impress me, is someone playing with confidence. Someone able to make throws when given the time to do it. Is he perfect? No. But what he brings to the table is workable. He's no Drew Brees. But he is no Jay Fiedler either.

 Moore is WORSE than both Brees and what Fiedler was.

And with Philbin hired it looks like Matt Flynn will be in Miami next year. So no need to worry about trading up for a QB, you get what you want there. And Matt Moore can go back to wearing the baseball cap and carrying the clipboard, which is what he does best!

Whoa, whoa, whoa. That's a pretty big stretch. Just becuase Philbin is here is NO guarantee Flynn is on his way. No one I've heard on either side of that has mentioned him wanting to be in Miami or Miami going after him. -EK

LaCanfora and Armando are reporting  it was a big part of Philbin's interview in NYC this week with Ross. Talking about Flynn and bringing him to Miami.  Especially if Philbin brings Tom Clements in as the Fins new offensive coordinator. No guarantee cause a team could give Flynn "silly goofy" money. But Flynn to Miami looks very real

Moore worse than Fiedler, not even close. He has shown improvement, just like Flynn. To me, Flynn is a lateral move. Man has one good game in week 17 and people (like you) think he's Aaron Rodgers, Jr. Sorry, I'm not buying that. I am buying the guy that took his lumps with this team, this year.

When Matt Moore leads a team to the playoffs on multiple occasion and wins at least 1 playoff game, let me know. Until he does then Fiedler has the better resume and its not even close!

Oh, so Moore has to lead a team to the playoffs on multiple occasions. Yet, he doesn't get the chance to even start next year in your world. That's like buying anything you want in a store, that doesn't accept your money.
Then again, I forgot. Moore had his "chance" in Carolina. And that's all that matters. Not what he did on the field for the team you root for.

YES!! Win meaningful games and take a team to the playoffs! Moore has been in the league for 5 years (yes 5 years), and has shown nothing in those 5 years. He didn't do anything on the field this year, I don't know what games you watched. Beat up on some garbage teams like KC, Washington and Buffalo (twice).  Seriously, he did nothing.  Lost to good teams beat bad teams.

6-0 when Matt Moore was sacked 2 times or less. In those games he had 10 TDS with 3 Ints. Which means he was 0-6 with 6 TDS and 6 Ints when sacked more than twice. Sounds like if they block better, he plays better. Imagine that. If you need your QB to overcome being sacked 5 times,(not to mention the pressures), on a weekly basis to win, then you're completely lost. You might win 1 or 2 with an "elite" QB. But you won't win consistently that way.

Lol, owned. -EK

LOL, so if a QB gets sacked more than twice a game he can't lead a team to a  win? What kind of backwards logic is that? Jay Cutler has been sacked 3-5 times a game for a year and a half straight and he went to the NFC Championship game last year and it didn't hurt his play. It hurt him physically as he has been injured alot, but to say you will automatically lose if you give up 2 sacks a game is silly. Big Ben has been sacked a ton and he has won super bowls and been to multiple super bowls being sacked left and right. Their o-line sucks in Pitt. Doesn't slow Big Bend own. I mean its comical. You can't actually believe this stuff!

Yeah the o-line needs to improve, that has nothing to do with the fact Matt Moore can't play or beat a good team. Matt Moore was also 6-0 vs BAD teams. That's the only stat that matters. Not counting sacks...lol

Obviously, stats are not a definition. Take it for what its worth. Since you brought up Big Ben & Cutler, lets take a look. Same standard of 2 sacks.
Ben(2 or less): 7-1, 15 TD's, 4 ints.
      (2 or more): 4-3, 6 TD's, 10 ints.

Cutler(2 or less): 6-0, 7 TD's, 4 ints.
          (2 or more): 1-3, 6 TD's, 3 ints.

el diablo, it seems like you're really saying that if a QB doesn't get sacked, he has a really good chance of winning.  I don't see what that specifically has to do with Matt Moore.

Well, Spider I was just trying to make a point. When the line does its job, Moore can be as productive as other QB's.