The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Apparently this is all over the news today. Ross wants Manning ahead of any and all other QB's. Yahoosports, the Miami Herald, and the Palm Beach Sports all reporting it.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/dolphins/peyton-manning-is-at-top-of-miami-dolphins-2118530.html
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/NFL-scoop-du-jour/dolphins-coveting-peyton-manning-112426521.html
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/23/2603050/peyton-manning-sits-atop-miami.html

-EK

Which should scream as a Red Flag, he doesn't even think Flynn is the guy. Ross hasn't learned from the head coaching fiasco(s). So both Manning & Flynn will sign somewhere else. But the Texas A&M guy will end up being "the perfect fit".

Manning is currently under contract. 

If the Colts feel he is healthy enough to play, they are going to keep him.

If they don't feel he is healthy enough to play, why the hell would anybody else want him? 

Because they may decide to tear down the team and build completely from scratch, in which case they would not want to pay Manning the $28 million roster bonus he is due in March.  In that case, they would release him.

Why can't you get Manning AND Flynn?  No one said you can't try to grab them both and use Flynn/Moore as insurance for if/when Manning gets hurt again...

I just found it interesting, since so many people jumped to the conclusion that Flynn was such a strong contender to be the next QB, when it seems that that isn't the plan at all. -EK

Because there is no way they can afford to have $30 million plus in salary devoted to the QB position & improve in other areas. At the same time, if you're Flynn, why would you go anywhere Peyton does? This is your chance for a payday that you can retire on.

If Peyton is healthy, I don't mind.  Apparently, that's a big "if."

This is a total ploy by the Dolphins to reduce Matt Flynn's asking price. 10 minutes after the Dolphins hired Philbin EVERY media outlet had Flynn in Miami. ESPN broke into coverage with John Clayton doing a piece on it for christ sakes. They gave Philbin 6 seconds on being hired then did 4 minutes on Flynn....lol  That gave Flynn and his agent all the advantage to pretty much rape Miami in contract talks come March.

Now Miami floats this story to send the message to Flynn's agent you aren't the only guy on the market and not even our top choice. It's just one big giant game of Chicken. I mean Peyton Manning calls his own plays and isn't running some west coast offense. Peyton in Miami sells tickets but on the field makes little sense unless Philbin is handing the offense over to him which I don't see a rookie head coach doing.

The Dolphins just need to get some leverage back from Flynn and his agent, and they did. Would Miami take Peyton if Peyton came knocking, sure who wouldn't You adjust. But I don't think Peyton wants Miami and Miami really wants Peyton. I think Flynn sits #1 on their wish list.

^^ I don't agree. I'd take Peyton Manning over Matt Flynn in a heartbeat and I think a lot of others would too. It's a nice theory you got there, but it's just a theory.

You may be right Mike. If so it's one of the first times they did the smart thing and didn't show all of their cards.

Which is probably the biggest indication that MikeO's theory is incorrect unfortunately. :)

yes Peyton Manning is (was) a better player, of course. He is going to the hall of fame and is one of the all time greats. But who is a better fit for the Dolphins right now as they rebuild...Flynn. Younger, knows the offense, knows the coach.  He will be here longer. Now maybe Flynn is AJ Feely Part 2. But maybe Manning is damaged goods and not the same. Both guys are a risk on some level.

Most people would take Peyton and I wouldn't be upset if Peyton came here. But why "leak" this story now, free agency is a month away. Because they had to reduce the leverage Flynn had after he was all over the news this weekend being tied to Miami and his agent started talking to the press.  Flynn has all the leverage in future contract talks and that's never good for the team. The team had to push back some slow things down. It's a big game of chicken. Happens in pro sports all the time when these things take place.

Exactly.

Well there are reportedly four teams interested in Peyton: Miami, Arizona, Jets, and Washington.  I don't see Manning going to the Jets for several reasons - sharing the same town and stadium with little bro, outside cold stadium, and he doesn't seem like a fit with Ryan.  Washington still a little cold, plus would face little Bro twice per year, so I think he would pass.  That leads the Cards and Fins, both good weather cities, Cards would be jumping conferences and a harder route back to the Super Bowl with some strong NFC teams.  I would think Peyton would like Philbin as a coach, and if Miami picks up a Tackle in the draft they would have a strong line to protect him.  Otherwise he goes to a Dome team.

Manning isn't worth 28m. If you wouldn't take a chance on Brees why spend a lot of money on a qb that's missed the whole season. If the Colts don't want him back why should we. Manning had his day and his day has passed. We need a qb to build our team with , not qb that we hope is healthy enough to take us to a championship.I want to be competitive for the next 20 yrs not the next 1 or 2yrs,if he's healthy, then search for another qb. We need to draft our own and stop getting everyone's has beens. I think Marino was our pick and not someones has been. RGIII!!

RGIII sounds great, but how do you propose Miami gets him from the 8th or 9th spot in the draft without selling the house? The Marino comparison is great, but so is a comparison to what the Vikings gave up to get Walker or what the Saints did with Williams. Look at Oakland- they've crippled their franchise by giving away so many picks for two guys who aren't working out. How would you propose to get RGIII? -EK

Don't know, hopefully the teams picking ahead of us go brain dead. My question is if he's there will we pull the trigger and get him? Or will we put our money in someone else's backup / hasbeen?

You know as well as I do there is no such thing as rebuilding in the NFL anymore. Philbin will be expected to win in his first year. Not necessarily win big, but he'll be expected to compete.  Manning gives you a better chance at that than does Flynn provided he's healthy.

The only concern anyone has with Manning is his health and I'm not really too concerned with that. People are misinformed about his surgery. It was done to relieve pain,that's it. There's no more risk of him being hurt because of this surgery.  Manning played with the injury for most of 2010 and it didnt keep him off the field. What forced him to get the surgery was pain. He simply couldn't play with the pain anymore. The surgery is supposed to fix that so he'll be fine if there's no pain. That's the only question is whether or not the pain will return. It has nothing to do with him getting hurt again. His neck is not any more at risk because of the surgery than it was prior to the surgery. Other NFL'ers have had the surgery and it did not effect their career's and they weren't QB's who typically don't take a pounding in the NFL these days. If anything Manning will be protected more than ever by the zebras. You couldn't look at Tom Brady the wrong way without being flagged when he first came back from his injury. It will be the same with Manning.

If there's no pain than Manning easily has a few years left in the tank. He would be more than a stop gap for a couple of years while you go try to find the next Dan Marino in the draft. You don't need Flynn if you have Manning, you can get a young QB in the draft. Maybe not this year, but maybe next year.

And I've heard that Manning has no intention of letting the Colts off the hook for the 28 million they will owe him in March. I think he wants them to make a decision. Either keep him and he's the starter in Indy or cut him and let him look for another team. Make a decision.

So if it were me, and it's not, I would go after Manning if he becomes available, but if that doesn't work out than I try to get Flynn.

I think some times "group think" combined with not doing your homework can be a barrior to a smart move.  

If you have the first overall pick you no doubt look at everyone.  But are the Dolphin's even spending time evaluating Luck?  Possibibly not. (I know the above was not about Luck) Everyone assumes he will be gone with the first pick.  Everyone has a ton to do before the draft so why waste time on players you have no chance at.  So let say Luck falls all the way to the Dolphins, without any real anaylsis they could say...well the other teams all must have found something seriously wrong with him we didn't see, so we need to pass on him too.  

I think that is why some players free fall in the draft.  

Actually there is.  Anything better than 1-15 and Philbin gets a second year. Ireland on the other hand is on a lot of pressure to show results.   

Anything better than 1-15?? How's that work? If Miami goes 4-12 next season, that's a step back and Philbin would be on the hot seat like any other coach who slid two games. -EK

He wouldn't get fired.  He would be at serious risk for the next year.  But he wouldn't get fired. 

I wouldn't be so sure. You might be right, because the bar is pretty low here in Miami. They just went 6-10 so a 2-14 campaign could be passed off as a rebuilding year and you might get away with it, but you'd have show some kind of progress. The 2 wins might have to come in weeks 16 and 17 or something along those lines. But I could just as easily see a 2-14 or 3-13 get Philbin removed after 1 year.

And getting Manning would surely prevent that. Flynn, I'm not so sure about. So again, if I'm Philbin, I'd rather have Manning, no offense Matt, but you gotta have a few skins on the wall before you can compete with Manning even when he's 36 and coming off a lost season due to surgery. He STILL seems to have more upside than you.

this sadly made me laugh. Truth hurts doesn't it?  :(

I don't think it is a matter of the bar being low.  It is just you give a coach two years. 

You don't win championships by changing coaches every year. 

Look at how the Steelers do it. 

Miami is not alone.....


http://www.torontosun.com/2012/01/24/peytons-new-place

Really?  If memory serves me correctly, the Dolphins had a 6-10 campaign in Nick Saban's last season.  Cam Cameron came in, brought in his own quarterback and his own offensive philosophies (which proved to be offensive to the fans), posted a 1-15 fiasco, lost the locker room, and was promptly axed after the season ended.

Not to say that is how things will play out with Philbin, but no coach is immune to firing after their first season.  

If I remember, Pete Carroll got fired from the Jets after only one season there as well.

exactly. It takes a lot for a coach to get fired after 1 year. KC even gave Haley damn near half of a 2nd year before pulling the plug.

And I honestly believe Ross when he said he doesn't want to go through another coach search for a long while. He looked exhausted on Saturday and worn out from all of this.

Doesn't matter how exhausted he looked. Failure to land The Big Name coach. Failure to land The Franchise QB. Regression in the record. Oh, you will see exhaustion.

There is a little more to it than that. Apparently the nerve damage caused issues with his triceps and arm strength. If the nerve doesn't regenerate, and there is no way to tell how that is progressing, he won't have his normal arm strength and will be a shadow of his former self on the field. He is throwing currently but still has a way to go before belonging in the field from what I hear.

^^ That's news to me, but you might be right, I'm only going by what I read about the surgery.

Still the fact that people seem to be suggesting that Manning is going to be more prone to injury because of the surgery just isn't true. If the nerve damage prevents him from regaining the strength in his arm, then he might be done, but if he gets the strength in his arm back, then he's going to be fine and there's no need to worry about the injury. That doesn't mean he can't be injured again, but it's not more likely just because he was injured before or because he had the surgery.

The nerve issue is why he had the surgeries.

Going the Manning route definately means the Dolphins are more interested in win now than developing a fanchise QB. 

Even if he does play in 2012, how many season do you really expect out of him. (Yeah, I know there was a QB from Greenbay that played until he was eligible for social security but that is not the norm.) 

I would assume he would be good another 2 or 3 years. And wouldn't you draft a QB to have him sit behind Peyton for a year or two?

You going to draft him in the first round?  Pay him top 10 pay.  And pay Peyton "PayMeATon" Manning.  How much salary cap room you got to spend on the rest of the roster?  Or you think Peyton is going to Miami at a discount cause he thinks it is his best place to win a ring?

I understand, but the surgery was in the neck not in the shoulder. There's a misconception that his neck/back is the issue. That's not the case from my understanding. The neck surgery was done to relieve pain. I thought the pain was in the neck/back, but it may not have been, the pain may have been in the shoulder or maybe the pain was in the neck/back but it also caused problems with the shoulder, I don't know. My understanding is that the injury to the nerve occurred during the 2010 season and Manning played with the injury in 2010 and had planned to play with the injury in 2011, but the pain became too much, hence the surgery. I wasn't aware of any shoulder problem until you mentioned it, but I heard something this morning that seemed to agree with you that there was concern that his shoulder wouldn't be ready before the season. I assumed that was caused by the surgery, but you're saying it was caused by the nerve damage, so I'm not really sure what the whole story is.

If there was nerve damage in the shoulder, how was he able to play with the injury in 2010?

This (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2011/09/peyton-manning-could-be-out-at-least-six-months-according-to-surgeon/1) is all that I could find about his shoulder injury:

"A renowned spinal surgeon Dr. Neel Anand told USA TODAY Friday that the Colts would be best advised to shut Manning down for "at least six months'' to give the fusion every opportunity to heal and allow the weakened triceps nerve in his throwing shoulder every chance to recover."

So apparently there was some damage to the nerve in his shoulder as well, which may have been one of the 2 other surgeries that Manning had. This goes back to my original point though that it's not his back/neck that are the problem, it's the nerve damage that is the problem. The surgery to the neck was to relieve pain, I didn't know about shoulder being weakened from the nerve damage. So the real issue to his recovery is how his shoulder responds, that makes sense. What doesn't make sense is for people to say that he's more likely to be reinjured. That's not the issue from my understanding. If the shoulder recovers, then he's going to be fine. He's not more likely to be reinjured because he had surgery on his neck to fuse the vertebrae. It takes time to heal, but once it heals it's fine. Like I have said before, there have been other NFL players have this surgery and it did NOT end their career nor did it shorten their careers. Once they had the surgery they did not have any more issues.

Well, the ball is in Indy's court. The problem is that if the Colts release him, there's a reason. That is scary. At the same time, bringing him in kills the opportunity to fill other holes. I'm sorry. I don't see that as the way to go. Its a way to sell tickets.

The ONLY "reason" is they don't want to pay him $28 million and then have to pay Luck on top of that. That's why they will release him.

Manning at 60% is better than any QB Miami has had since Marino. I still think this is all a ploy to divert attention away from Flynn. I might be dead wrong in the end, but I don't see Manning to Miami. I think Miami is using this chatter and floating these stories and rumors out there with a purpose behind it. I mean if they lose Flynn would they take Peyton, yeah sure. But I think Flynn sit atop their wish list. This is one giant poker game being played right now through the press

Given their track record, going through the press is not their strong suit.

I doubt the only reason why they would release Peyton is because of their greed. They had no problem making this deal last year. The roster bonus was insurance because they knew he was playing hurt. If he was healthy this year, this wouldn't even be an issue. They would have happily paid him to hold on to the final 2-3 years of his career.

Well they didn't think they would have Andrew Luck fall in their laps

LaCanfora reported today the Colts decided a couple weeks back to part with Manning. He is reporting it will happen "almost certainly" before the Combine begins.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2012/01/28/la-canfora-manning-decision-made-weeks-ago/?module=HP11_headline_stack

^^^ For the last couple weeks its seemed like Manning and the Colts have been trying to find a way to severe ties without looking like the bad guy.

I hope that is the case!

I like Manning... I just don't see him being the right fit for us now!  The money he will cost us and maybe a franchise QB we would probably loose out on also.  We can't draft a QB 1st round when you paying Peyton... then to be back in this position looking for a QB in 2-3 yrs would just drive me insane! :o

Manning might end up being cheaper than Flynn. Flynn is younger with a longer shelf life and will demand more. Manning at 36 won't get more than a 3 year deal I would think.

IF they go Manning I think the plan would have to be to draft a QB in rounds 2 or 3 to start to prepare to take over down the road. Probably not round 1 but they would take someone

Kevin Kolb signed a 6yr 65 mil contract last year. Ryan Fitzpatrick got a 7yr 62 mil contract extension. Both are in the Flynn age group with "potential". Let's say Flynn did demand 7 years. He still wouldn't get more than maybe 75 mil. That would be an avg of 10.7 mil.
Now Peyton would be losing 28 mil if he gets released. He wouldn't sign for less than 20 mil per season. 3 yrs, 60 mil or 4 yrs, 80 mil. How would Flynn be cheaper than Manning? Nobody is going to pay Flynn 20 mil per season.

Kolb got 5 years and $21 mill guaranteed. The guaranteed money is all that matters for salary cap purposes the rest means nothing. Flynn's market according to many reports is only in the 4 to 5 year range, he isn't getting 7 years not even close!  And his deal will be similar to Kolb's, maybe a slight bump in guaranteed money. So around $22-$24 mill guaranteed over the life of the deal.

Peyton isn't getting $20 mill per season at his age and with his injury. That won't be his market. He may get more guaranteed on his name value alone but its not a given. We will see how it plays out

I figured that you would go the guaranteed route. I'll give you that Flynn may not get 7 yrs. Five to six is more plausible. Even with that, you're still looking at 2-3 yrs of investment. Which would be the same type of commitment for Peyton. The Colts paid  Peyton 26 mil for NOT playing this season. If Peyton clears a physical, he will not play for less than 20 mil. Favre didn't, neither will Peyton.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-dolphins-peyton-manning-0204-20120203,0,7261621.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+orlandosentinel%2Fdolphins+%28OrlandoSentinel.com%3A+Miami+Dolphins+News%29&utm_content=ESPN



Looks like the feeling might be mutual

^^^ Article indicates Manning will probably get about $15M per year, which is certainly more palatable than the $20's.  Probably throw in some performance bonuses (like number of starts, playoff apperances, playoff wins, Super Bowl?) and Miami could be enticing for Manning.  Manning doesn't just want to play, he wants to go to the Super Bowl; so I think Miami has one of the better bases to do that (of the teams interested in him).  The big benefit is you don't have to give up any draft picks.

Adam Schefter reporting that sources have told him Peyton is willing to play for little or NO guaranteed money! And is willing to do it every year of his deal. Play for Pay type roster bonuses. 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7543001/peyton-manning-flexible-deal-demands-sources-say


Seriously, if he is willing to do that....sign him. Draft a QB in Round 2 and lets play some football! If Peyton does that he is a true NFL warrior who wants to compete and win before all else. Give me that guy on my team! Yeah its a roll of the dice with the injury, but if he will do his contract that way there is almost no risk in signing him. ONLY reward!

here..here.......let's catch hic brother Eli, with not only the best  signing in Fins hstory,  BUT...the comeback player of the year to go along with Super Bowl MVP!

I'm all for seeing Peyton Manning under center for Miami this season, but instead of going out and drafting a 2nd or 3rd round QB to groom, I'd prefer to put those picks into a couple more top-shelf caliber O-line prospects to help keep Peyton on his feet and healthy. I'd be just fine with Moore backing up Manning...I just want to see Manning stay healthy for 16 games (plus playoffs).

Of course, until he actually signs with the Phins, this is all just a droolworthy pigskin pipe dream...

+1

I just saw that McShay had dropped Justin Blackmon down from 8 to 12 on his big board, and I had a momentary pigskin wet daydream... Peyton Manning (healthy) under center for Miami, with Reggie Bush in the backfield and Brandon Marshall and Justin Blackmon split out wide. Mercy buckets...

I'll be back in a few minutes...I need some tissues here.

He moved him there, but based on picks, his mock has the Redskins taking him at 6. Unless Murtha has impressed the staff enough to rely on him, I still think Miami drafts an OL in round one. Sorry to ruin your dream. -EK

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Agree. That is how I see it as well. I sign PM only if I am convinced Flynn is not the guy (big IF IMO), he comes reasonably priced and they would be able to draft a QB (Tannehill) in this years draft.

If the Dolphins were to sign Manning, it would be a total waste to draft a QB this year.  It would just be taking a flyer on a guy that wouldn't get any playing time, especially since you have a decent backup QB that could start.  Much better to fill in some other needs, or trade for a future pick where you might be able to combine some picks for a 1st round draft pick.