The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

I am really sick and tired of the bipolar Dolphins fans. Now before I get accused of calling out your fanhood again (this is completely different than the Suck for Luck discussion) I am not calling you any less of a fan. I am simply saying you guys are bipolar. It seems that every single move is thought of as either the best thing to ever happen to the Dolphins or if not, it is the worst thing to ever happen to the Dolphins and the world is crumbling around you. There is not room in your world for a middle ground. There is no wait and see attitude. Guess what guys, this sport is just something to occupy your Sundays for a few month of the year. Your world isn't going to end. I wish you the best and leave this one piece of advice, just roll with it. If you don't like a decision, that is OK. Feel free to say so but to act as if the world is falling down around you is not healthy.

Totally, absolutely and 100% agree and have said this numerous times. Too many extremists.... Not healthy, folks. -EK

I think the vast majority of the people on here are not extremists.  We have a couple that cause the rest of the group to get lumped in.  There are a few people who are always uphappy and think the organization does everything wrong.  There are a few that sugarcoat every decision.

I think those that pick one side here and one side there are unfairly group with the fanatics.

I agree that the core of this site are not extremists Dave, but look at the Marshall thread more closely. There are people I don't even recognize as members as well as people who hardly post making some extreme statements.

I don't remember hearing those kind of statements about letting Paul Soliai hit the market, or about losing Brian Daboll, or about releasing Will Allen, or about trading Greg Camarillo.

If you're talking about moves that involve people who are or would be among the core components of the team, well, yes, you will get more excited responses.

Plenty of posters took a wait and see, middle ground attitude about passing on Ryan Mallett to draft Daniel Thomas.

While this is certainly a valid point, I think that an internet message board dedicated to Miami Dolphins discussion may not be the ideal place to make it.

Well at least you have agreed with me on the validity of one thing in the history of the world.

I suppose you think a more appropriate place would be on a political message board, or any other unrelated area?

Let me put it another way:

If you are a Dolphins fan that wishes to express a strong opinion about a move that the team makes, the single most appropriate place to express this sentiment would seem to be a Dolphins-focused internet message board.

That is a completely different point than your first one (which was that a Dolphins' board was not a place for me to mention that football is just a game).

But I do agree with this one. A Dolphins board is the perfect place to state opinion about the teams and its moves. I just think 1-3 posts is stating an opinion while 15-16 posts almost repeating the same thing is extremism and obsessive.

It's the same point:  if you don't want to see people frothing at the mouth about football, you shouldn't be looking at an internet football message board, because that is the single most appropriate venue for... frothing at the mouth about football.

I think you're confusing people having an opinion with something as being an extremist.  Honestly, it's a little insulting. 

There are fans on this site who love the player who was traded and view the trade as an awful move.  They have a right to express their opinion as, in their eyes, this is a regression for the team they love.

There are fans on this site who never bought into Marshall and are glad he's gone.

There are people, ones like me, who like the guy...but generally think he's a distraction.  I like the new winds blowing and I'm excited to see what happens next.

...and then there are the type of people who shrug and say "I can't control it either way, so who cares?"  Apparently that would be you.  That's fine.  But what gives you that right to define yourself as better?  For all you know, those "bipolar fans" also happen to be monster fans of the player and are heartbroken at his departure.  The wonderful thing about these opinions?  Not one of them are wrong.

You're qualifications to judge those people begin with___________...what?

I think you need to look in the mirror on this one, Phish.  You can't cry "live and let live...just live the way I'm telling you to."

I am a person who generally gives management a pass on behind the scenes decisions, because I realize that they are privvy to information I don't have.  Since I can evaluate the players during the game just like the coaches, they don't get that same leeway (fair or not).  Granted, there are situations where a QB gets blamed for an INT, where we don't know if the receiver broke off the route incorrectly, but I try to factor in those possibilities.

With something like a trade, specifically this trade, I see a player who never lived up to expectations, despite being our best options.  So, when the front office looks to trade them, they get a pass.  I assume that they have reasons that I'm not aware of for making the choice.  Marshall's legal issue is obvious, but even if it weren't that obvious, like he just didn't take direction well in practice, my decision would be the same.

The ONLY defense I will give to those calling out Ross and Ireland as idiots for making the trade is that there are previous examples of bad decision-making from this duo that would lead one to assume it's another screw-up in a long line.

Phishfan you have to admit that this move was a big one, right?  I mean, we did lose one of the best (if not the best) player on our team in a totally out of no where move on the first day of free agency.  Plus, we don't really have any players on our team that are ready to step up into that roll.

I agree with you that many reactions on the board are extreme and can sometimes be annoying.  More than likely you just found this to be a good time to bring it up with the obvious emotion that this move has stirred up.  But I wouldn't understand it if any true fan didn't have a fairly strong feeling about this move. 

In short, this particular move is infact a big deal and justifies a polarized viewpoint.  I do agree with you on some of the others though.

On the other hand this type of stuff ALWAYS happens when you change head coaches and turnover your coaching staff. A new head coach comes in, reviews the roster, decides who are the players who are the biggest bang for the buck, who matches up with the type of system you ultimately want to employ etc and he makes some hard decisions. Some guys are let go and others stay and a lot of times it's not clear why the decision was made and perhaps sometimes the decision is made just because it's not "his" guy. Philbin didn't trade for Marshall, to him Marshall is just another piece of the puzzle. He has to make him fit somewhere in his puzzle and if he doesn't fit into his puzzle, then he discards the piece and tries to find another piece that fits better. That's what he was brought in to do.

I wasn't really shocked by this move. I'm much more interested to see what this move means. Were they simply looking for more cap room to try to sign Manning or Flynn? Have they determined they aren't going to get Manning or Flynn and would rather go into rebuild mode and start building from the draft? Or did they just think that Marshall was a distraction off the field and a little too much of a diva and they didn't want him to distract from the goal of trying to install a new system, etc. There's a million questions and we aren't gonna find out the answers to those questions right now because they don't WANT us to know those answers because if we know then the competition knows and I think we can all agree it's best if the competition is left scratching their heads.

Now, if 6 months from now, when the season has started we are all still scratching our heads and wondering why we traded Marshall, THEN I'll be right there with some of you and upset because by then we should have some answers and if we don't THEN it will be time to start questioning the decision making. Not now. Now is the time for optimism. I know it's hard to be optimistic with the way things have gone lately, but let's not hold that against Philbin. He deserves an honest chance to show us that he actually has a plan and a direction. And yes Ireland even deserves a bit of a chance too because this really hasn't been the Jeff Ireland show up till now, it's been the Tuna and his helpers show up till now. Well the Tuna is gone. Tony (the Tuna helper) Sparano is gone too. Now it's the Jeff Ireland and Joe Philbin show.

And if they screw it up, I'll be right there with ya'll blasting them.

No, Philbin was not brought in to make personnel decisions.  (As you may recall, one of the reported sticking points with Jeff Fisher was that Ross insisted that Jeff Ireland retain final say over all personnel decisions.)  Personnel decisions are Ireland's job, and Marshall was Ireland's acquisition.

Jeff Fisher wanted full control of personnel, meaning that Ireland would have NO say. You don't really believe that Ireland made the decision to get rid of Marshall without talking to Philbin about it do you? But even if it was Ireland's decision, he still has to make those decisions based on where the football team is headed. The GM cannot make trades in a vacuum and just ignore who the coach is, what the philosophy of the team is etc. That philosophy has changed or at least I hope it has.  Sparano was a conservative coach. Play defense. Run the ball. Don't make mistakes on offense. He didn't like risk. He didn't like taking chances. I don't get that feeling from Philbin. I get the feeling he's more willing to take some risks to be a little more explosive on the offensive side of the ball. Try to win the game with offense rather than not lose it.

You're splitting hairs.  At the end of the day, you can always frame it such that if one person has the final say, the other person has NO say.  Fisher's problem was that he wanted to have the final say, while Ross wanted Ireland to have it.

I believe that if Ireland wanted to keep Marshall, Marshall would still be on the team, regardless of Philbin's opinion.

Given that Ireland is the person who decides where the football team is headed (from player decisions to coaching hires), that statement is fairly redundant.

I get what you are saying Phish, sometimes I feel the same way.

Now you have Ireland hiring the coaches too? He didn't make suggestions to the owner and together they decided? I see. So Ireland decides everything now. I suppose we should blame Ireland for Ross being the owner too then? I'm sure it was Ireland that told Ross to buy the Dolphins and give him all the power. Ross is just a puppet head. Gotcha.

Pappy, if you want to bring Ross into the picture, then he technically has the final say on any decision he wants, because he can fire anyone whose decisions he does not agree with.  Is this really the point you want to make?

Ireland's job is the general manager.  The general manager, not the head coach, is responsible for personnel acquisition.  Now, can Philbin, or Mike Sherman, or the head of scouting, or Jake Long have input as to the personnel decisions?  Sure.  But at the end of the day, final personnel decisions are made by Jeff Ireland, just like final game coaching decisions are made by the head coach (with input from others).

So if Marshall was traded, it's because Jeff Ireland decided that he'd rather get rid of him than adjust his plans to the personnel he has already spent considerable resources acquiring.  Presumably, if your new head coach is unable to make use of the best offensive weapon and only Pro Bowl skill-position player on your team, this is something that should have come out when you interviewed him for the job.

This is not a Joe Philbin decision; it is a Jeff Ireland decision.  There is no way to get around that.

And there are ones like me who realize that despite Marshall being a distraction off the field, he was one of the best receivers in the league on it and was one of the best things this offense had going for it.  Maybe the only thing.  Getting rid of him was a big mistake, no matter how you slice it.

LOL So glad im not the only one who sees this  :P :P

Technically? Ross technically has the final say, but not really, that still belongs to Ireland right? :)

I don't really want to get into it with you Spider because I don't know how the Dolphins brass really handle things any more than you do, but I have a little bit of knowledge of how businesses in general work and rarely does it come down to he who has the title makes all the decisions. Generally all the major players get into a room and come to a consensus. Now if they can't come to a consensus then maybe someone has to make the final decision and break the stalemate, but generally you can get people to come to an agreement. I really don't think it was that hard for Ireland, Ross and Philbin to all agree on the trade of Marshall. I don't think any of them really thought as much of Marshall as you do. He has talent there's no question, but it only rarely flashes on the field and too often his bipolarness gets in the way. I think they simply decided they could live without him and his salary and they picked up a couple of draft picks and made a little salary cap room along the way. Business is business.

But if you want to put it all on Ireland, that's fine with me. I don't really think we'll miss him all THAT much. Now that doesn't mean he won't do well in Chicago, I think him and Cutler seem to have a rapport, so it's not a bad place for him and I think he'll do better there then he would have done here, but I'm ready to see more of the young WR's on this team and there might still be a free agent out there willing to come to Miami. I've kinda come to peace with the fact that the Dolphins aren't going to fix their QB problem this year and that would have just meant another year of Marshall complaining about the QB, so time to move on. Let's see who they can pickup in the draft or free agency.

Ireland has the final say on personnel/roster decisions (it is literally in his contract (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/01/13/fisher-rams/index.html)), which means that it is 100% accurate to say that Ireland has the final say on which players stay and go under the terms of his employment.

That being said, there is nothing in his contract that guarantees that he cannot be fired.  So if Ross and Ireland disagreed on a move, Ross would have to fire Ireland to override him (at which point Ireland would no longer be an employee and have no say whatsoever).  So yes, it's totally fair to say that Ireland has the final say in his position as GM.

Damn, I was expecting that link to actually be his contract. Silly me, just an article about Fisher from Peter King. I didn't realize that Peter King was Fisher's agent or is he Ireland's agent, I'm confused, because I could have swore that he already had a job writing articles about what he thinks, not so much about what he knows.

You make it sound like Ireland and Philbin HAD to disagree on this.  How do you know this? Why couldn't it have been that Philbin, Ireland AND Ross ALL wanted Marshall gone? Is it STILL just Irelands call then?  I mean he gets to be the one to actually trade him, but it's not like he had FINAL SAY!!!! Over whom? No one was disagreeing with him.

Wait a minute, that article says that he had final say on the composition of the roster and draft, it doesn't say ANYTHING about coaches. I thought you said he had final say on the coaches too?

Time to just agree to disagree Dan. As usual. :)

Let's be clear here: are you actually disputing that Ireland has roster control in his contract?

If so, provide your evidence.
If not, admit that you were wrong (if only to yourself) and shut up about it.

You said Philbin made the decision to "discard" Marshall, potentially because Marshall is not "his" guy.  That decision is made by Ireland, and Marshall was indeed Ireland's "guy."  You are wrong.  Move on.

No, I'm making it sound like Philbin couldn't have done a damn thing about it if Ireland wanted to keep Marshall.

It is EXACTLY like he had FINAL SAY.  Allow me to present three scenarios:

1) Philbin and Ross want to get rid of Marshall, but Ireland wants to keep him.  Philbin and Ross both eloquently present their case, but ultimately Ireland does not agree to the move.  Result: Marshall stays (or Ross fires Ireland).

2) Philbin and Ross want to keep Marshall, but Ireland wants to trade him.  Philbin and Ross both eloquently present their case, but ultimately Ireland insists on the trade.  Result: Marshall is traded (or Ross fires Ireland).

3) All three want to keep Marshall.  Result: Marshall stays.

Do you see the common link in all three scenarios?  As long as Ireland is GM of the Dolphins, he determines who stays and who goes.  This is why Jeff Fisher turned down the Dolphins!

Wait a minute, that article says that Ireland is the GM, but it doesn't say anything about him receiving a salary!  I guess that must mean Ireland works for free!

Let me make this real simple.

1) I don't know what's in his contract.
2) A link to a Peter King article is NOT evidence of anything other than the fact that Peter King has an opinion. It's silly to make any kind of inference as to what's in his contract from an article as we have both pointed out.
3) I questioned your statement that you knew what was in his contract. If I'm wrong, then please provide your evidence and it better be his actual contract. Anything less is pure speculation. The onus is now on you to either produce the contract or admit that you don't know what's in his contract either.

What this thread has devolved into is a perfect example of what I (not necesarily the OP) meant. While the majority of the board may not do this, the ones who do are the most vocal. Whether it's the Tebow thread, the Marshall thread, the "Manning isn't even going to meet with Miami" thread, the Casey Anthony thread, the "Life is sacred thread," or any number of other threads, spanning all topics, some of the members here not only seem to see things in only black and white (extremists), and not only have to be right on everything they post, but have to make others wrong in the process. It is- believe it or not- OK to disagree without being disagreeable. -EK

Pappy13,

The next time you cite an article from ESPN, or nfl.com, or Adam Schefter, or Jay Glazer, or anyone else saying that (for example) Paul Soliai signed a deal for 2 years worth $12 milion, I fully expect you to produce the actual contract language to prove that he is actually being paid that amount.  Apparently, statements of fact from accredited professional writers (with Pro Football HOF votes, no less) that are posted to major websites are no longer sufficient evidence in your book.  This is as compared to... your own personal opinion, with absolutely no evidence provided whatsoever.  Got it.

P.S.

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_seasonticket/2012/01/does-jeff-ireland-have-final-say-over-miami-dolphins-personnel-decisions.html

But who has the final say over personnel when push comes to shove and the Dolphins are on, say, the draft clock or deciding which quarterback to pursue in free agency or trade?

“Technically, it’s mine,” Ireland said Thursday during a visit to the Sun Sentinel offices, “but we’ve talked about this too. We’re in this thing together. I believe in finding players for the head coach to help this franchise be successful. Again, it’s a team game.

Maybe Jeff Ireland is lying!

You know, I have thought the exact same thing for a long time. There are some here who have to be right about everything, or at least they think they are. That in and of itself is not too much of a problem other than insecurity and self esteem issues. Some around here can't play nice and, as you say, "disagree without being disagreeable" and take on that condescending know it all attitude. I don't post as much as I used to simply because there are some here that will argue about anything. The irony is that the majority of the time they argue about opinions and rumors, because we all know those are set in stone, ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa.

I apologize. I know I can give off that vibe and I don't really mean too, sometimes I just get caught up in the discussion. I tried a couple times to extricate myself from the discussion, but got sucked back in. My bad. I'll work on it.

I wasn't talking about you or anyone specifically in the previous post. I guess the people I'm referring to know who they are. If the shoe fits kinda thing........................ .