The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

To get a QB we will have to overspend as most teams do. We could have given Flynn a little more money. We could still throw big dollars at Smith. We could reach in the draft on an even bigger risk or do what we always do and hope one falls into our lap?  We all see where that has gotten us.

So what do you think?

i think signing Garrard took us out of Smith sweepstakes.

Our QB's will be Moore, Garrard and rookie draft pick

Just added a poll ...

Personally I hope you do anyone of the top 3.

I think the smart move would to give Matt Moore a year to prove he is or is not a franchise QB. 

None of the above.

Alex Smith sucks

Matt Flynn = Kevin Kolb

Not ok with reaching in the draft.

My preference is to roll with Moore and re-visit again next year.

Isn't that just hoping one falls into our lap?

Give me reach in the draft. Especially with the new rules, taking a flyer with a first round draft choice is not such a bad idea.

Everyone wants to fire Ireland cause they think he sucks.  If you reach in round 1 or "take a flyer" with 8 overall, he's dead man walking.

You take flyers in round 5-7, not at 8 overall.

Not if the flyer is a QB.  Everyone is desperate to sign someone, anyone. If he picks Tannehill in round 1, everyone will forget all about Flynn. Now if Tannehill doesn't fall to #8 he's in trouble, but I still think he will as I don't think Cleveland is gonna pick him at #4, not with the top WR and RB probably still on the board. People always get all excited about QB's in the draft and talking about them coming off the board in the top 10 slots, but I seriously doubt 3 of the top 4 picks are gonna be QB's. It just doesn't happen that way.

My only fear now is that Tannehill will be there at #8 and Miami will pass over him. If that happens then I think Ireland is gone before the next draft. He'll never be able to recover from it (hell he may not recover now even if he picks Tannehill).

My biggest fear is he will be there at 8 and we select him. this is a huge reach and since we aren't getting a decent QB prospect, it would be better to get someone servicable and not waste a pick just because. We would have been better to spend money on Flynn which wouldn't have cost us an actual servicable player.  In fact it would have allowed Moore to try and compete so in acutuality you are getting two opportunities listed above.

We have to give Moore another year at this point. Pappy, reaching in the draft is stupid. We all know Tannehill isn't a number 8 talent. Anyone saying he is going in that top order is also saying that he does not belong in that talent group. Taking him would be worse than if we had taken Quinn with our pick. Anyone who can seriously say right now with the benefit of hindsight that we should have done that needs their head examined (and don't give me BS about not using hindsight).

Moore was 6-3. He was not nearly as bad as you guys have been letting on. I agree he is not the guy to lead us to the promised land but we cannot afford to miss out on a first round draft pick right now.

What we should have done, personally I think we could have ponied up a bit more money for Flynn. That is the only reach I would accept.

My vote was based on what we should do at this point though.

Anybody second-guessing Miami passing on Ryan Mallett and drafting Thomas instead? -EK

Who? Assume that Luck, RGIII, and Blackmon are gone at #8. Who do you pick?

Same question Phish.  Who's there at #8 that knocks your socks off?

Yeah I realize that #8 is too high for Tannehill, but I don't really see anybody else that makes sense. I'm going to vomit if they take another offensive lineman in the first round. And I'm not saying start him this year. I'm saying start Moore and have Garrard back him up or vice versa, but pick Tannehill and start grooming him. If in a year you're not convinced he has what it takes then you start this whole process again next year.

I have been since the draft.  Not that I'm convinced that Mallett is anything special as he's not done anything yet, but Thomas hasn't impressed.

I've seen at least a few Mock's having Miami draft Tannehill, with the general comment, "Tannehill is a second-round prospect, but like Blaine Gabbert and Christian Ponder, he has been pushed up into top-10 consideration because of the demand for quarterbacks." -EK

I will be pissed if we take Tannehill. We've totally effed up the whole qb situation at this point. Don't waste a pick on some loser that we'll be off-loading in 2 years.

I'd rather take another lineman than Tannehill at 8.

This would be my choice for Miami as well... Load up for a run at Barkley next year.

What exactly has Mallet done since the draft to change anyone's mind either way.  Can't call him a bust, can't call him great. He has mastered the craft of holding a clipboard on the sidelines.  I am hoping not too see what he can do as a QB. 

This is where the general bitching of the fans just irks me. You can't win. You can't satisfy some people no matter what. I still read reports and blogs from fans about passing up on Aaron Rodgers and taking Ronnie Brown in '05. Guess what? 20 other teams passed on him, too. Before that Miami goes out and gets Culpepper. 6'4" 260 pounds and only a year remived from 5000+ total yards, 39/11 TD/INT. What are people saying about that? "Shoulda got Brees!" How was nayone supposed to know Culpepper was going to suck? So now, after not having actually drafted a QB in the first round in twenty years, some people think Miami should NOT go after Tannehill. What's the big issue there? The reality is that this team won 6- count them 6- games last year. If they draft Tannehill, and he sucks, go back to Moore. ANYTHING is better than being so tenative and being afraid to make a commitment on this. And another O lineman? We drafted Pouncy and Long in the first round in the past few years and still gave up 52 sacks last year, so maybe we need someone in the pocket who can get rid of the ball rather than stand there like the statue of liberty getting killed. Clearly, the "drafting O linemen" strategy hasn't worked lately.

Hoodie- I see what you mean about Mallett. If I was in your shoes. I'd day the same thing. But being a Phins fan, I wish we would have taken him. With the games missed for injury by Thomas, and the fact that they picked up Slaton, had Hillard, and even found playing time for Johnson last year while Thomas was hurt, I don't think Miami drafting Mallett would have been bad. If he sucked, he sucked. Couldn't have been worse than what they were playing with most of the year. -EK

The issue is that no one thinks Tannehill is a first round talent much less worthy of pick #8 except people saying take him in desperation.

No one said Brady was a first round talent. 20+ teams didn't believe Rodgers was either. EVERYONE just knew Leaf was. The more I read from the guys "in the know," the more I think they could just use a monkey with a dartboard. "Let's see what round John Smith should be drafted in." (Monkey throws dart, lands on 1). "Oh, he's a first round talent." At least this way, if he sucks, they can say, "hey, what do you expect? Our draft guy is a chimp!" Point being that if you believ that QB is the biggest position of need for an upgrade, and you're pissed that Manning, Flynn, or anyone else went somewhere else, why not take a gamble on Tannehill? If he's better than what Miami has, I don't understand why it matters if they draft him at 8 or 38 if you really feel Miami needs a QB that badly. If you pass on him at 8, and he's gone by 20, then what? If he turns out to be another Rodgers, then I have to listen to the talking heads going on and on about how Miami passed on him. -EK

^^^I don't think he would be any better than Moore. I think Moore is our best QB option at this stage.

I would put money on it that no one will be saying we missed out on Tannehill in years to come.

I disagree. I think they don't believe he's a top 10 talent and there might be a few that don't think he's a 1st round guy, but I think anywhere from about 15 on down most think Tannehill is a fine pick as a guy you bring in to groom. He's only played QB for a couple of years, he's got plenty of room to grow into the position. He's shown enough throwing the ball to think he might someday be a pretty good QB. His arm strength is fine. He's big enough for the position. He's a terrific athlete and is used to throwing on the run so you don't have to keep him in the pocket, you can move him around a bit to keep defenses honest. If they try to blitz him he's mobile enough to escape the pressure and use his feet to get first down's etc.  He's not a classic pocket passer, but he's no Tim Tebow either. And maybe most importantly he's already played for your offensive coordinator so he knows what he can and can't do and what he needs to work on.  I think the pick makes a TON of sense, IF and it's a big IF, but IF Mike Sherman likes the kid. If that's the case, take him.

Here's an interesting point made in an article (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/20/mike-sherman-compares-tannehill-to-favre-rodgers/) from February. "If the Dolphins only sign a second-tier player at quarterback, perhaps Sherman has convinced the organization that Tannehill is ready to lead an organization."

^^This. -EK

Might as well sit and wait until next year......

Drafting Tannehill to have him be your 3rd string QB for a year behind Garard and Moore teaches him nothing. Over-drafting him  by taking him much higher than he should go to have him buried 3rd on the depth chart is silly in my opinion. He will take no snaps in practices or games. What is he learning?

If you draft him and he is the back-up....OK. I can live with that, at least as a back-up he has to prepare each week for the game and he will get work in practice and you can place him games where you are UP a lot or DOWN a lot. As a back-up you can give him a series or two a game even. As a 3rd stringer that isn't possible!

Signing Gararrd, a 34 year old coming off an injury and letting him compete for the starters job is a "win-now" move. Any way you slice it. Re-signing Paul Soliai when you have a deep d-line is a "win-now" move. Either Miami is rebuilding which makes those 2 moves dumb and means they shouldn't draft Tannehill. OR they should start rebuilding, draft Tannehill.

Not to mention if next year goes as bad as everyone in the football breathing world thinks it will go, Miami will be back in the TOp 10 or Top 5 of the draft. Shots at Barkley, Jones, or the next RGII type to splash on the scene. Having taking Tannehill at #8 and paying a high first round draft pick QB PREVENTS you from drafting one.

Ireland has to decide...."win-now" or "rebuild"

The defense is set up for WIN NOW. Two experienced QB's atop your depth chart (even if they stink or aren't great) is WIN NOW mode. Drafting Tannehill at #8 goes against EVERYTHING they have done in free agency and what team they have.

Want to take a QB in Rd 2 or 3, fine. But taking one at #8 now is just silly and counter productive!

What? It's a 1 year contract. It's not even guaranteed he'll make the first cut. You need 3 QB's heading into pre-season just to have enough QB's to throw to the WR's. You need 2 during the season and you're assuming that Moore is going to be one, but injuries often change that. How often do teams have to replace their starter during the year and make their 3rd string QB the backup? How often does the 3rd stringer end up starting? If Tannehill comes in and does well, then you can jettison Garrard at anytime. He's ONLY an insurance policy in case something happens to Moore and Tannehill isn't ready to step in.

Again what? Soliai is 28. I'm sure that Miami hopes he's here for a while. Plenty of time for him to still be a Dolphin 2 or 3 years down the road when a guy like Tannehill is now your starter. They lost one of their defensive lineman, losing 2 would have made your deep d-line pretty thin. Everyone was thinking they wouldn't be able to keep Soliai, this was actually a very nice surprise.

While that's certainly possible you don't PLAN on that happening. You deal with that next year if it happens. You can't plan this year based on what you think MIGHT happen next year. Way too much time between then and now to do that.

Peyton Manning decided for them, so they switched gears. That's what good management does, it has a fall back plan.

LOL. I've heard that before, oh yeah it was right before the season started last year and then they came out of the gates flat and NE torched them. Remember everyone bitching about how out of shape they were after game 1? I believe you were in that boat as well. You have a VERY short memory. The truth is the defense has potential, but they have yet to convert that potential into an honest to goodness WIN NOW defense.

It's real simple MikeO, get Peyton Manning and maybe you have a shot at making something of this year like contending for the AFC East. Don't get him and no matter who you get, unless something really unexpected happens like the next Tom Brady falls into your lap, you aren't gonna be contending for the AFC East next year. You can either realize that and plan accordingly or you can ignore the facts and be surprised when it happens.

considering how terrible thomas is, anybody else would have been a good pick.

Now David Garrard isn't going to make the first cut? Yet he is competing for the starting QB job. The logic you are using is as confusing as Ireland's.

I would expect that if Miami drafts Tannehill that all 3 will be competing for the starting QB job. If they fail to draft a QB, you can expect another QB to be brought in and they'll probably end up keeping only 2. Which 2 will be the question.

No one is handing David Garrard the starting QB job. Now if he's healthy and is doing the best come the start of the season, he'll stay and could even be the starter, but a lot would have to fall into place for that to happen in my humble opinion. It's just as likely that Garrard's health or skills have deteriorated and he doesn't make the final roster.

He is competing for the starting job in the same sense every player in camp will be competing for a starting job.

I think he's doing a little more than that considering he's being paid more than Matt Moore. You don't pay him more without the expectation that he will perform. -EK

^^The question is not what is your expectation, the question is how does he perform? If he's better than Moore he'll play, if he's not he won't. How is that different from anyone else on the team?

With the fuzzy math he is paid more than Moore. Moore was already under contract so I expect his signing bonus was already paid. Either way they are not factoring it into his base salary this year which I have heard is either $2.5M or $2.75M. Garrard's base deal is $2.25M. If you add his signing bonus (the fuzzy math since we are considering that for moore who earned it last year) is an additional $1M bringing him to being paid more than moore this season.

^^Which is why I would expect him to be more than "just another guy competing for a starting job." I mean, does anyone REALLY believe they would bring him in and pay him more than their incumbent? Dubious... -EK

OK,once again he isn't being paid more without fuzzy math. Secondly, Moore's deal is the equivalent of a backup deal because that was what he was signed as and Garrard's money is approximately the same. Don't get me wrong, I don't think either is a great QB. But I expect Matt Moore will be the starter on opening day.

Fuzzy math? Bottom line- he's making more next year than Moore is. You can "fuzzy math" that all you want, but if there were no expectations, they would have paid him less, especially with his age and the fact that he didn't play last year due to injuries. If he was coming in to ride the pine, you pay him what an older, removed-from-the-league-for-a-year QB would get- a much smaller salary- especially win the financial straps Miami has. It seems to me that because of his pay, the expectation is that he will have a legitimate chance at starting. -EK

My honest answer,is I don't know....I want them to pick a horse,stick with that horse,stand behind the horse,and build around him....I feel it needs to a guy,the whole organization is behind.....

This well,the GM likes this guy,the head coach thinks he's ok.The OC can make him work because it's what the head coach,and GM wants,but it's really not his type of Qb.He'll work for now till someone better comes along...Or the Head coach gets fired...

You really think that's how they figure the depth chart, who makes the most?  Guess they don't need to let us know anymore if that's the case because we could figure it out by just looking at salaries.  ???

Yes he has a legitimate chance at starting...if he outperforms Moore. That TOTALLY depends on how Moore and Garrard PLAY and has NOTHING to do with how much they are paying either of them. I don't see why this is so hard to comprehend.

Probably the same reason it's hard for you to comprehend that in a salary called league, no one is going to pay a player that you think isn't going to even make the roster, starter dollars unless they have an expectation of him to start. -EK

But that's just it, he DIDN'T get starter dollars. He got a 1 year contract for a couple million. That's BACKUP money. Just because it's more than the money you gave to last year's BACKUP who now happens to be the starter is irrelevant.

Just because you say it's irrelevant doesn't make it so. The fact that Moore was the starter and he is paid more that Moore means he got starter money. Twist that however you want, the math doesn't lie. Who is getting more money? Don't give me "fuzzy math" BS. Simple question- which one, Moore or  Garrard? They wouldn't have paid him more if they had expected- as you do for some reason- that he won't even make the roster. What kind of logic is that? -EK

In total money Garrard will make more than Moore will. In terms of whose salary is higher, it is Matt Moore. Garrard does not make starter money, neither is making starter money. To say Garrard was given starter money and handed the job is laughable.

Why would you take off their signing bonus? He got paid that didn't he? They didn't have to give it to him or give him a bonus as high as it was. The fact that the bonus they gave him made his salary higher than Moore's and they had total control over that shows me, even more, that they expect him to make the roster and compete for the starting spot. If he was just a warm body or just there to push Moore, he would have been paid less- likely by a smaller bonus. It's equally laughable that anyone would think Miami would pay a guy who they didn't even believe would make the roster more than their incumbent QB. -EK

Because they both were not signed the same year. Yes Garrard will be paid more this year, no his salary is not higher than Moore. Do you want to count it as their salry cap hit? If so, Moore costs Maimi more than Garrard this year. It is all symantics.

It's not in any way semantics. Garrard is going to make more. In the totality of his contract he is going to be paid more than Moore. Why is that a point of contention? Why is it difficult to get? You don't pay him more of you expect to it him. There's zero logic in that. You pay him league minimum like they did Larry Johnson last year and your done with it. They didn't do that for the reasons I've already mentioned. -EK

Good point. I'm assuming then you realize that applies to your logic below as well.

We agree to disagree.

EKnight, if I understand your logic correctly, you are saying that the player's value to the team/position on the depth chart is invariably determined by the total dollar value of his contract?

I want to make sure that that is your actual point.

No. I'm saying that in this case- this one particular case- the team is not going to pay Garrard more than they are paying Moore if the expectation is that he won't even make the roster, as others have stated. -EK

I think you need to reword that because as it stands, it isn't anywhere close to accurate. I assume you mean for one season.

Good grief you like to argue semantics. Yes I mean for one year. The fact that you derived as much from my statement means it was clear enough and doesn't need rewording. -EK

Absolutely, everyone knows Bledsoe was a better QB than Brady in 2001. 

Bledsoe - 10-year, $103 million contract. 2001 cap hit $8,236,390.

Brady - cap hit in 2001 -- $314,960, playing under his rookie contract which was a four year deal with salaries at league min plus $100,000 signing bonus.