The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

As much as fans hate to admit it, he has addressed the Dolphins' 4 most dire needs in the first three rounds with some pretty darned good prospects (even though I stand by Tannehill being overrated).  Give some credit where its due, Dol-Fans - Is Jeff Ireland winning any brownie points out there so far?

He really hadn't lost too many brownie points with me but I agree, outstanding job with this draft.

Martin and Egnew are 2 GREAT picks! And he traded back and got Egnew and added a pick to boot. Outstanding job. 5 more picks today and I think WR and G are gonna be on the menu for the Fins!

No.

One of our best drafts ever, so far.  IMO

Since rounds 4-7 get shaky for anyone, I would go ahead and rate our draft a low A or high B.

Tannehill - Didn't have to move to get him.  Didn't risk not getting him by moving back.  Kept their mouths shut on how they felt about him.  Don't even need him to start right away because we have two servicable QBs on the roster.  Most important position in football.  Already knows most of our system.  Tons of upside.

Martin - Best O-lineman in the draft for our team.  We didn't need Kalil.  Atheletic.  Will start day one but will likely get stronger and be better at handling bull rush next year.  Has enough potential to replace long in a few years if it comes to it.  More important than a guard.  Got to handle the outside rush from Buffalo and now we can.  Very smart and professional player.

Vernon - A bit worried about his sack production in college, but certainly the potential and atheleticism is there.  Fills a need.  Answers questions as to how much 4-3 we will run and it appears we will be running it a lot.  If that is the case, he is an outstanding pick.

Egnew - As much receiver as he is tight end.  Seriously upgrades offensive speed without giving away our intentions via personel package.  Great red zone target.  Almost fills a need at two positions instead of one and both of them equally considering we already know Fasano and Clay can block.  West coast tight ends don't have to block for long, so he will be fine.

On top of that we pick up an extra pick to use on depth and/or special teams.  Love it!

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I love the draft so far. The only thing I would have liked to seen different is taking Curry over Vernon.

Absolutely. I LOVE this draft so far.

The one thing that stands out in this draft to me is that a lot of the players he has chosen actually had better years in 2010 than 2011. I think Ireland has had his eye on some of these guys since 2010. That shows an ability to look beyond just the raw numbers for 2011 and look at the whole body of work of the player. I like that.

And if you give Ireland a little credit, then you have to give Ross a little credit too for sticking with Ireland when alot of fans were telling him that he needed to go too. I'm happy with the coaching staff Miami has put in place, I'm happy with what they did in free agency and now I'm happy about the draft. Maybe I'm just stupid and none of it will work out, but at least things are going the way I wanted them to go, other than getting Peyton.

I agree. I think this is a very good draft. He has addressed many needs. If he would have waited on a pass rusher, he would have gotten a sure dud. It was smart to wait on WR's due to the fact the position is so deep in this draft.

a great draft?  ill wait to see if the players suck like the rest of the players he has drafted.

As I said in the Pats draft grade thread, you can't grade a draft until you see what the players do. 

Time to grade the 2008 draft. 

Jalen Parmele RB Toledo MAC from Detroit
 2 57 Miami Dolphins Henne, ChadChad Henne QB Michigan Big Ten from San Diego
 6 195 Miami Dolphins Thomas, DonaldDonald Thomas G Connecticut Big East from Dallas
 1 1 Miami Dolphins Long, JakeJake Long† OT Michigan Big Ten [8]
 3 66 Miami Dolphins Langford, KendallKendall Langford DE Hampton MEAC from Detroit via Kansas City
 4 110 Miami Dolphins Murphy, ShawnShawn Murphy OT Utah State WAC from Chicago
 6* 204 Miami Dolphins Hilliard, LexLex Hilliard RB Montana Big Sky 
 7* 245 Miami Dolphins Dotson, LionelLionel Dotson DE Arizona Pac-10 
 2 32 Miami Dolphins Merling, PhillipPhillip Merling

You can't make picks in hindsight.  You pick based on info you have today.  You can't grade a draft in 3 years.  With what we know, I think he's doing pretty damn good.

In three years, we'll see if Jeff Ireland is good at predicting the future as well.

As long as "picking players that can help your team win football games" is the primary goal, 2-3-4 years down the line is the only time you can accurately grade a draft.

All this can't grade a draft stuff is silly. 

First of all it is obvious that these are just projections, so you are just stating the obvious. 

Secondly, it is still relevant that these decisions are made based on information available at the time.  Circumstances change and situations that players are drafted into are different.  The grade is for the decision and the information available at the time of the decision.

Example:  I draft a shitty running back to a team with an awesome O-line and good deep threats.  The shitty running back performs like a great running back due to the circumstances.  It doesn't make the pick of the shitty running back good, it just means I had a circumstance that were good enough to compensate for my error in evaluation.

Based on the information that is pretty much available to everyone and the choices made on how to use the draft picks, Ireland/Philbin get a low A or high B from me regardless of the outcome because I am grading the use of decision making and the utilization of resources to make the decisions.

^^ Someone gets it...  Thanks.

You have less info than any of the teams.

You are handing out grades based on how the teams drafted in comparision to how well ESPN scored the draftees. 

I'm agreeing with Doc-phin. High B. While this might be a good draft in comparison to previous years for Miami, it's not a "set the world on fire" draft. Maybe two starters this year and two more by the end of 2013. The first two days were solid. Today not so much. Miami needed help in the secondary badly and drafted no one. They needed help at WR and drafted a RB with no hands when there's already 5 RB's on the roster. That one puzzles me. Overall, they got three big positions filled at QB, RT, and DE, but as a whole, and because the RT is going to have to change his natural position from one side of the line to the other, I can't get as over the top as some of you guys. -EK

At least the plan makes sense.  I like the picks in rounds 2 and 3.  I don't think the 4-7 picks were bad or anything.  They seem respectable.  But it's rounds 4-7.  Those guys aren't going to come in and fill immediate needs in 2012 unless you really get lucky.

Everything Ireland has done though will be overshadowed by the success/failure of Tannehill experiment.  And we'll probably be in the dark on that for awhile since Tannehill isn't going to start for awhile.

I don't want to hear Tannehill's name until 2013.  Period.  However, I am certain that the first interception Matt Moore throws, the cameras will immediately be on Tannehill's face and clipboard.

Don't be shocked if Matt Moore is one of the final cuts of the Miami Dolphins this year. If he can't beat out Garrard in camp, then why have him around? He serves no purpose at all for this team. He will walk at seasons end anyway. Might as well let Tannehill be the #2 and get back-up reps

The plan makes perfect sense. The defense is returning damn near everyone that matters, they were 3rd vs the rush and 6th in scoring defense last season. The unit is working just fine, don't touch it or tinker with it too much.  They had few needs outside DE on defense, so there wasn't much to do there. They got their DE. Took a developmental DT late, which is smart. And they got a Linebacker who probably will be a special teams guy from the start and provide depth. But not much needed on a unit (defense) that is very successful!!

The Dolphins offense sucks top to bottom. Needed help everywhere. You got guys like Bush, Fassano who could be cut or will be gone after the year as FA's you don't want to re-sign. Steve Slaton sucks and the kid from Canada they signed was just a training camp body who isn't special, he won't make it out of training camp and make the team. RB was a need! Especially with Bush's injury prone history and Thomas was injury prone last year.  You address QB (finally), get a plug-n-play RT from day 1 with a 1st round grade in Rd 2. Take a TE who fits the style of TE that is successful in the NFL these days. They grab a RB who can split time with Daniel Thomas going forward, guy with a 1st or 2nd round grade (depending on the expert) and got him in Rd 4.

ROME WAS NOT BUILT IN A DAY!!! WR is still a need. They couldn't fix every problem in this draft. Even though it was a deep WR crop, maybe Miami didn't like the WR's. Who knows! But Miami fixed enough of problems on offense. The o-line looks finally to be somewhat solved after all of these years. Christ with Pouncey, Long, Martin as 3 anchors with Incognito, 4 of the 5 spots are solid. I can hope they can move forward finally. RB position is young now with some explosion in it now. TE with Clay/Egnew looks to be somewhat solved for the immediate future.

And there was no need to address much on defense this year because that unit is one of the better defensive units in the league. The numbers don't lie that unit is successful. 

Totally 100% agree. Look for him to be either traded or cut.

I mean if he beats out Gararrd then obviously he's the guy for the year. But if he doesn't beat out Gararrd he has zero value for this team. Last year of his deal, not a starter, if Gararrd gets hurt or stinks then the year is pretty much shot at that point anyway, and playing Tannehill while maybe not ideal wouldn't be the worst situation. So its worth the risk.

You don't want Tannehill to play in games this year but you do want him to get a lot of reps in practice. As a #2 QB he will get reps. As a #3 he will get close to nothing!

Totally agree.

Ugh stop with the "defense didn't need upgrading" stuff. The secondary sucked. They were 25th in the league against the pass, and they cut their most productive player in the secondary. With the pass rush they had last year and the way they played the run, I would have drafted a DB long before one of the LBs or DLs that was taken. Miami had a good draft- certainly not great. I get that "Rome wasn't built in a day," but secondary and WR were far bigger needs than TE or LB. How those needs were minimalized is beyond me, but teams on the Dolphin's schedule with even marginally effective wideouts have got to be licking their chops at the chance to exploit them. -EK

I have equivalent information to any fan and my rating is based on that of a fans rating. I never claimed to be a professional analyst. My rating is valid on the level I am presenting it out.

For the record... I use as many sources as possible to make judgement. I don't just listen to ESPN. I research sources I consider credible and then verify or regect them based on my observations. I am not a perfect observer but I am better than average.

after this draft
Yeah, that's pretty much true.  They needed a DE desperately just to try to put pressure on QBs to help the secondary, but a DB or 2 was desperately needed before this draft.

Lots of desperation, basically.

The logic was Richard Marshall to replace Will Allen as the nickle back. Giving them a nice 1-2-3 CB tandem for the most part. I'm not a huge Sean Smith fan but for where this team is right now its good enough.

They felt cutting Bell was addition by subtraction because he was so old and slow and got beat so bad last year in the passing game. He was terrible.  They have confidence in Culver at SS. Or moving Rashed Jones to his natural position of SS works if need be. And they bring in Tyrell Johnson to compete with them for that job. So some nice depth there. PLUS, Chris Clemons is going to have to step up at FS this year, or they can move Jones back to FS if need be and let one of the others start at SS

Once again ROME WASN'T BUILT IN A DAY!! And offense was/is a far bigger problem than defense. The little problems they have on defense pale in comparison to what the offensive problems are. And its not like Miami is winning a Super Bowl this year and needed to put the finishing touches on the defense and get the last piece or two. There is going to be a draft next year to address the little problems on defense and continue to build up the offense!

This was never a team that was going to FIX everything in 1 draft. Yet some people are shocked by that notion and upset.

I'm not shocked or upset. I'm just sick of hearing how great the defense was. You love to keep bringing up the "points allowed" stat but you ignore the fact that the secondary got beat badly week in and week out. How many times do you keep saying, "it's a QB league," when you refer to why Miami needed to upgrade offense? Well guess what? That works on both sides of the ball. No one cares if you can shut down the run if you're in the bottom 20% of the league in pass coverage because it's a QB league. I'm happy with the first three picks. After that safety and WR should have been a priority, not RB and more LBs. -EK

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I think Moore beats out Garrard and if he doesn't Devlin is the odd man out.

Moore or Gararrd will be gone by the 3rd preseason game.  Unless there is an injury of some sort

Which is not much. 

Giving out grades for the draft, between the draft and training camp is like awarding a student his/her GPA on the day of class registration, instead of after final exams.

Which is why I say you can't give out draft grades until 2 or 3 years after the draft.  We can have an intelligent discussion about if Long and Henne were good uses of Dolphin draft picks.  Whether Tannehill was a great pick, a horrible pick or something in between we won't know for some time. 

Grading a draft immediately after the draft is the same thing as grading your own personal level of confidence in the players drafted. Nothing more, nothing less.

"I really like Bubba Johnson, and the team drafted Bubba Johnson...woo-hoo, slap an "A" on that pick! 
Leon Jones in round two? I heard someone, somewhere, say something nice about him on TV recently. Let's give that one a B-plus."

I hope not, unless we get something for trading them.  Come mid season there will be teams that need a backup QB as a result of injuries, would be nice to have one to trade for an extra future pick.

It is unlikely that Miami could get anything for Garrard, seeing as how he spent 2011 on his couch without a job.

No he will be cut! You can't trade him!

Why do you think they won't keep both Moore and Garrard?  Its about having a servicable backup incase of injury.  If they cut one of them and the other gets hurt, you are stuck with Tannehill playing this year.  I think you guys are all way off base here.

Tannehill will end up playing this year at some point. To think he will sit for 16 games and not see the field once, not gonna happen. 

And if Tannehill isn't playing you want him getting reps in practice. As a 3rd stringer you get ZERO reps in practice. That isn't learning squat. He needs reps. He needs to be the #2.

^^^That doesn't mean Garrard can't take the third spot.  Better to collect a paycheck than to sit on the sofa another year.

I see your point  but its not his choice though.

Having an old QB at the end of his career sitting 3rd on the depth chart isn't good for the player or the team, I would think they would probably go in another direction IF that's how it plays out. We will see.

You talk like its set in stone.  You MUST be the #2 QB or you won't get any practice.

Dontcha think that they could put the kid on a program when trying to groom along a rookie without making him the lone backup option on Sundays?  Things can be done if you have a creative coach, and seeing what this guy has done in the past, I believe he can figure out a way to let the rookie practice and still be the emergency QB on game day.

There are only so many practice hours in a week during the season. NFLPA has reduced them with this last CBA. Only so many snaps and reps to go around and when preparing for real games, the time is limited and must be used wisely.

We will see but I would be shocked though if Tannehill isn't the backup QB. He is the #8 overall pick of the draft, even if he isn't ready to play you don't bury him on the depth chart

I have to agree with MikeO here, Tannehill needs all the practice reps he can get. 

I disagree.  Hindsight is not always 20/20.  There are many factors that go into a players career, just like there are many factors that go into the draft.

The draft grade doesn't necessarilly need to be in relation to the outcome.  As I have said before, circumstances change the outcome but have nothing to do with the draft itself.

But if it makes you feel better we can call it a preliminary draft grade and say it is from a fans perspective.  It is still valid.

Okay you are right.  Both the Chargers and Colts deserve an A grade for the 2000 draft because BOTH drafted a franchise QB that will lead them to multiple championships.  A desperate need for both teams.   

First, I would never give a draft grade based on one player.

Second, who is to say that Ryan Leaf wouldn't have been successful in a different situation.  Lets say he started out on a different team.  Maybe we could consider one with a better O-line, running game, a solid tight end option and two fast receivers to take advantage of his big arm.  He lost his job because he couldn't handle the pressure that came down on him when he started throwing interceptions.  Lets say he was in a situation that gave him enough initial success to carry him through a rough streak or two.  His whole career and life for that matter could have been very different.

Circumstances affect outcomes.  It doesn't change the worthiness of the choice.

I have no clue how I would rate those drafts, I really have no interest in going back and investigating them.  Picking Payton Manning at #1 overall seems more of a no brainer than something that deserves credit for excellent decision making.

Let's say, hypothetically, that Peyton got drafted #2 by the Chargers and Ryan Leaf went to the Colts #1.  Would Peyton be out of the league by now, and Ryan Leaf would be the Hall of Famer?

Ryan Leaf was an emotional implosion waiting to happen...and it would have happened "anywhere."

It is easy to say that because of the cascade of events that happened in Ryan Leafs life that we were able to see unfold before us.  But emotions can be controled and often it is the people around you and the circumstances that help you control them.

We have no way of knowing.  What I do know is that the Charges sucked plenty after he was gone.

It was easy to say that about two weeks into his rookie season, when reports started surfacing about Ryan snapping at reporters and teammates. I didn't need to watch his painkiller addiction and amateur crime spree adventures to tell me what I already knew.

Over simplified.  It didn't happen till after he started having trouble with turnovers if my memory serves me correct.  You know how the media can be. 

It's like Schodinger's cat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat). We won't know if the cat's alive or dead until we open the box, so in theory the cat is both alive and dead at the same time. Likewise the draft was both a good one and a bad one at the same time.

How's that?

Like it, but I am a bit of a nerd.

Here it is....Well a version that you can buy,and NOT get death threats from PETA :D No Buzingas  ;D
http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/cubegoodies/e9cb/?pfm=homepage_Featured_7_e9cb (http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/cubegoodies/e9cb/?pfm=homepage_Featured_7_e9cb)

Modified forgot to add "Not" get death threats  :D :'( :-[

PETA- People Eating Tasty Animals! -EK

We have a non-profit client named "Save the Chimps"...and every time one of my coworkers says their name, I add "...for dessert!"

On a draft note though, I'd give it a solid C+...