The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Still REALLY early, but beyond:

Hart line
Bess
Gates...

Who makes the team?

I'll forecast:

Fuller
and a free agent pickup....do we have room for Wallace?

Of course we have room, I'd take him in a heartbeat, but he came out and said he wants Larry Fitzgerald money.  Which I'm pretty sure would make him the third highest paid WR in the league.  Can't afford that, much less, I don't think he's worth it....yet

My bad....Wallace can only resign with Pitt...

Why not BJ Cunningham? We have room for both right now.

They can trade for him just will cost ya a 1st round pick next year. Ain't gonna happen.

I think you see A LOT of Reggie Bush lined up at WR next year. A real lot. And he will be flanked out wide in many formations. With Thomas/Miller in the backfield at RB.

Jabbar Gaffney,and Jacoby Jones were both released today....I think Wr's will be available,JMO

I think this is where,guy's like Egnew,and Clay also come into effect...

Love the fact we are extremely young on the O side of the ball....can build this offense, hopefully into a 5 to 10 year juggernaut.

Our wideouts will surprise this season, even without the extremely talented, but troubled teammate that was Marshall!

IMO, Hartline will have the best year of anyone on the current roster. Overall he's very much in the Jordy Nelson mold- I actually read an article not long ago entitled, "Jordy Nelson: Brian Hartline with an accurate QB." Let's hope so. -EK

I have this crazy feeling that Davone Bess is going to have a monster year. 


something like 30% evidence, 70% wishful thinking LOL

Don't forget Naanee.

I suppose I see it like this...

Hartline and Naanee on the outside with Gates and Bess rotating in.  Bess will be in on most 3 receiver sets and Gates will be added on all 4 receiver sets.  We will run a lot of 3 and 4 receiver sets.

Cunningham makes the squad, Fuller may be a practice squad guy.  Roberto Wallace finally sees some play time.  Egnew and Bush get set out wide frequently.

Marlon Moore as well.

Don't sleep on Marlon Moore.  Word is he's come a long way since his rookie year. 

Its tough when you have guys like Moore, Wallace, Gates, and Cunningham.  There's 4-5 good young prospects on the team that show tremendous up-side, but you can only keep 3 of them (in addition to Bess and Hartline).

I don't get the love of Moore and Wallace.  I'm not very happy with Gates either, but folks say he's fast, and you can't teach speed.

I am all for only the strong surviving and getting past training camp.  There's been a lot of weakness lately, and I'd like to see that turned around.

Moore has been hanging around for a few seasons now, always showed some flashes during preseason, but has never impressed in real games.   Wallace, I was never too high on.

As for Gates, he was a disappointment last season, but as a rookie, it might be expected.  I expect to see him more of a deep threat role this season with Marshall gone, and maybe get in on the special teams/return game a bit.  I am hoping to see him use that speed for good.

If I had to guess, I'd say it will be:

Hartline
Bess
Gates
Cunningham
Nannee

Nannee is the odd man out here if we end up bringing in another FA.  Jacoby Jones beats him out, IMO.

The problem with speed guys is in college they rely on their speed to get open and don't learn to run good routes and use their body to shield the DB off the ball generally. When they get to the NFL they find out that DB's are fast too and they have to learn how to run routes, use change of speeds, shield them off the ball etc to beat them. It takes a little time for speed WR's to adjust to the NFL if they do at all. Development time is usually less for guys that already run good routes in college and use their body to shield DB's etc and haven't relied on their speed to get open.

I'll be extremely disappointed if Naanee makes makes this team.  He is simply a large, warm body, and that's it.  This team needs someone to beat him out.

Not knocking Cunningham or any of the free agent WRs, especially the guy from Texas A&M, but dammit, I REALLY wanted a McNutt jersey. ;)

Moore had that big game vs the Raiders a couple years back in Oakland.

And he is also the guy who started the "TEBOW MANIA" because if he just falls on that onside kick last year vs Denver the Fins beat the Broncos and that Tebow thing doesn't get rolling...lol

^^ you're right, if Moore recovers that onside kick, the Broncos lose, and Tebow probably doesn't play another game.

Damn you, Marlon Moore!

Nah, the "Tebow thing" was already rolling. He had already been given the starting nod and had played well to close the SD game. You can't put that all on Moore. Besides- honestly- the way Miami was coughing up leads in the 4th at that point in the season, Denver may have won anyway on some sort of crazy turnover. -EK

I root for Moore a good bit, but my understanding is that Wallace fits the scheme better.  I think Moore is the odd man out. 

My hopes are that it is the other way around, but I don't think it will go that way.  I love Moore's approach to the game.  He is a very hard worker and I value that a great deal.  He just isn't as gifted as Wallace.

Don't sleep on Wallace either.  He is a soccer convert and had a lot of ground to make up, but the talent is there.

Just something to think about, but it looks like they might keep 3 QB's on the 53 roster which means that extra roster spot (they normally keep 2 QB's) will come from somewhere.

Also, keep in mind some of these guys contribute to special teams and that "could" be enough to save them. My best guess is they keep 6 WR's as follows...

Hartline
Bess
Gates
Moore
Cunningham
Naane

Out are....

Wallace
Pruitt
Matthews




 http://prod.www.dolphins.clubs.nfl.com/team/player-roster.html

Maybe its just my own bias, but Hartline just doesn't impress me.  He has a good game here and there, usually in losses, but has never done anything great.

Hartline has outstanding hands.  I can't speak of much else, I feel like he has average speed but runs a good route.  But he can catch almost anything near him.

Hartline is the man. He better stay.

I've said this before, but Jordy Nelson has been called, "Brian Hartline with an accurate QB." that speaks volumes about how good Hartline can be. -EK

LOL, well he might play more games but the "tebow is a winner" thing would have died before it started and the "tebow miracles" would have never gotten off the ground.

Me too...I am not a real Hartline guy and he has never really impressed me. Being as he is our #1 WR now that Marshall is gone that scares the shit out of me.....too bad it doesn't scare any of the other 31 teams in the league. I know a lot of people like him so like you, I will call it my own bias as well.

he doesn't "WOW" me either. But he is decent enough. He will have his BIG opportunity this year and I believe its a contract year for him so he better shine or else I don't think Miami will be trying to re-sign him and they will let him walk.

Hartline does have a knack of making tough sideline catches getting both feet in, I will give him that. But I never saw him as a #2 WR in this league let alone a #1. He has a golden opportunity though this year, hopefully he makes the most of it.

Grrrr. This is what pisses me off- while Miami did nothing to significantly upgrade the WR position, and in fact, DOWNGRADED the production on the field trading away Marshall, the Patriots went out and picked up Donte Stallworth, Brandon Lloyd, Anthony Gonzalez, and now Jabar Gaffney, in addition to resigning Chad Johnson and Deion Branch. While Miami has done SQUAT in terms of free agency, getting no one to help their QB of the future, New England now has like 12 WRs under contract. They now have 6 different guys who caught for over 700 yards last year, and 5 who were at or close to 1000 yards. And please don't give me the "there's not enough balls to go around" crap. With Brady and Belichick, there certainly are. Hope those late round LBs and RBs Miami drafted help to somehow keep up with the Pats when they're dropping 50 on everybody again this year. WTF, Ireland? Sign SOMEBODY. -EK

Might as well get over it... both Philbin and Ireland have said they look for talent through the draft and aren't big on free agents!  There were a few receivers i would have love to see Miami go after but, "It Is what It Is"

I think you are ranting just to rant. Stallworth had a whopping 309 yards & Gonzalez has barely touched a field since 2008. Also saying Ochocinco was resigned was a bit of an exaggeration. They restructured his deal because of his poor showing last years.

LLoyd & Gaffney are pretty good pickups though.

Stallworth and Gonzalez are better than any of the pickups Miami made. I wouldn't be shocked if the kid from Carolina never sees a down this year. -EK

LLoyd *might be* a good pick up.  The guy has been in the league for ten years.  People forget that.  He's had one break out season and suddenly he's the next coming of Jerry Rice.

Semi Maine rant, because I'm tired of listening to all of the Pats fans on the radio up here who seem to think LLoyd is Randy Moss Lite:

212
565
733
365
14
364
117
1,448
966

Those are his career numbers.  Decent, at best.

New England had Jabar Gaffney for three years and let him walk.  He is basically a mirror image of Lloyd with 5,622 yards since 2002 to Lloyd's 4,784 since 2003.  Decent numbers.  Not great.  Gonzalez gets hurt when the wind blows too hard, Ochocinco had 276 yard last year, Stallworth is 156 years old...

So - basically - who cares?  New England signed a few guys with pedestrian numbers (at best), a couple other guys who are injury cases...and now the world seems to think they are loaded for bear.  I'm not buying it.

Brian Hartline had 560 yards last year.  Bess had 537.  That's with Moore coming in half way through the season and Marshall and Bush getting the King's ransom of balls thrown their way.  I think Hartline and Bess are as good as Lloyd and Gaffney are.  Factor in other weapons (I really liked Clay out of the back field - the kid had almost 300 yards and is a beast), Reggie Bush, etc.

The WR position is like the closer position in baseball.  Yes, there are certain guys you go into camp with that you know are going to perform (Calvin Johnson / Mo Rivera).  But every season a handful of closers you've never heard of come out of nowhere to post sub 2.70 ERA / 35 save seasons...and wideouts you've never heard of before catch 800-1,000 worth of passes.

I personally feel Miami has the stability in the coaching staff the actually focus on the passing game again (RIP Wildcat) and decent arms at the QB position.  I think we will be fine at WR.

We agree to disagree then. At the end of the year let's revisit and see who had better years- NE's pickups or Miami's. ;) -EK

One of them is going to have a rookie throwing at them, the other is gonna have Tom Brady tossing them the ball. 

NE's wide recievers are gonna look better either way. 

Thing with WR is it typically takes a couple of years of the same QB/WR/system combo for the WR to be hitting on all cylinders.

What? What rookie? Tannehill's not getting playing time this year- at least not enough to count. Pointing out that Brady is throwing to these guys solidifies my point. While the team with the best passing game in the division- probably top the three in the entire league- doesn't sit around doing nothing, they just get better and better and deeper and deeper, Miami downgraded the second most "needed" area in the off season. -EK

If you got Tom Brady throwing to your receivers they don't really have to be that good!  Just because they have them doesn't mean they are going to do much with them... Chad Ochocinco didn't do jack shit last season!  Randy Moss his last yr did nothing special there...  Moss now is still better than all those guys they picked up!!!

Again, I point out which of Green Bay's receivers other than Donald Driver did anyone know before Greg Jennings decided to step up?   Jordy Nelson or Jennings were not highly sought after receivers coming out of college.

Chad didn't do anything because he wasn't smart enough to figure out the system, not because he wasn't talented enough. To make the argument that Moss- who was let to by THREE different teams last year- is better than Lloyd or Gaffney is silly talk. Either way, you're missing my point. It's frustrating watching Miami trade away its only great receiver for beans, pass on every good free agent, pass on some very good draft WRs, and watch the Pats- who need more receivers like I need an infected scrotum- just keep loading up. The rich keep getting richer, while Miami reaches on a QB, drafts LBs and RBs instead of receivers, and ignores their AWFUL secondary altogether. -EK

Actually WR is a need for NE. 

Lol how? They had a 1500+ yard receiver last year, and another one at 900. And now they have what- 12? 15? Guys under contract? They don't need any more receivers. The Gaffney signing was just greedy. -EK

Yep. And NE has a ton of cap space while Miami has no cap space! And Miami can't afford to overpay for marginal players right now. ESPECIALLY when they are rebuilding and those marginal players stunt the growth of the kids and won't result in any more "WINS" at the end of the year.

It's plain as day that Miami is in  "rebuilding mode" on offense and most fans know it. But even the fans who do know it will then get upset and get irked when the Dolphins don't do a "WIN NOW" move and non-rebuilding mode move (like sign Gaffney). I really don't get the logic or why anyone would be upset. It's foolish, just look at what they are doing on offense!

Ireland and Philbin have a plan and are sticking to the plan. EVERY position wasn't going to get addressed this offseason. WR is clearly the position that wasn't getting addressed. They are clearly ignoring the position yet some still get upset when they see a Jabar Gaffney on the market and the Fins don't make a play for him.

You carry 5 WR's usually on a roster. Bess, Hartline, and Gates are locks to make the team. Leaving Nanee, Moore, Wallace, Cunningham, Marshall, and Fuller realistically fighting it out for 2 spots. And lets be honest, most teams don't cut their rookies in year 1. And someone like Cunningham a 6th round pick won't last long on the practice squad unless he has a god awful training camp, so odds are he is making the team.

That's the real question isn't it. How do they compare to last year? So rather than compare NE's pickups to Miami's perhaps a better comparision is Miami's WR's in 2011 to Miami's WR's in 2012.

I'd take that bet in a heartbeat. So, what this year's WR core would have to outperform would be:

170 receptions
2327 yards
10 TDs

Don't see that happening. The receptions maybe- but only because WCO does a lot of dink and dump short passes. No chance in hell they get 2000+ receiving yards, and I don't see the WRs getting 10 TDs. GB's receivers got about 2700 yards and 30 TDs, and that was with Rodgers passing for nearly 4700 and 45. No QB in Miami is slinging the ball like that. -EK

Who gives a shit if the "receivers" can get 2327 as long as the team gets the 4000 and extra TDs?

LOL at that. Do you think the yards will magically appear? Who- on the current roster- is going to account for that. I think you're waaaaay overestimating the talent. Moore was on pace for about 3000 yards if he would have played a full season. Garrard's BEST year was 3600 yards, 4 years ago. Neither of those guys is going to put up crazy numbers with the current roster of offensive players they have to throw to. -EK

What if I told you the team that went to the Super Bowl least season only had 2623 yards from WR's?  And 60% of that was from one guy...

Who gives a crap who catches the ball?  Win games, that's all that matters.

I think you guys are missing my point entirely. The off season upgrades- while promising- are not going to make more of a difference than 1 or 2 games. While Miami upgraded minimally, every other team in the division did more and were often better to start with. No one else lost a player of Marshall's caliber and did not find an adequate replacement. I think, ultimately, Miami has a good foundation, and in a few years- once they find at least one (maybe two) more quality wide outs- they may be a playoff team again, but it ain't happening this year. Win games- that's all that matters, right? Where, in the current roster, do you see enough talent to win more than 7 or 8 games? The point about the Pats only getting ~2600 yards from their receivers is moot for 2 reasons- 1) they also got 2200 yards from their TE's which Miami couldn't touch in a million years, and 2) even NE saw that was a problem, which is why they signed 3 free agent WR's, bringing my argument full circle. What may be the best offense in the league even understood they needed more talent from their WR's so they upgraded. Why didn't Miami? -EK

You have to take into account the upgrades to the offensive line that have occurred the last two years.  Barring significant injuries Miami should have one of the best offensive lines in the NFL this year.  This improves the running game, which helps open up the passing game.  Giving a QB an extra two seconds to find the open receiver is huge, no matter who the QB and receivers are.  Steeler teams have been built on strong O-lines for years, their failure last year was due to poor O-line play.

Wait what? Miami's O-line was ranked 17th last year. The addition of one second round pick who may not even start is going to boost it to one of the best in the game? What am I missing? -EK

Martin played LT in college. He will start at RT unless Murtha or Jerry beats him out. My guess is Jerry plays LG and Martin beats out Murtha at RT.

Either way, it is a huge upgrade and will pay immediate dividends.

He will play, and yup replacing 20% of the line that was deficient will vaunt it, its all about not having a weak link in prime positions (tackles and center).  Hopefully the TE position will also be an upgrade.  As for "ranking" offensive lines thats a bunch of crap for the most part.  A great QB, RB, and WR can make the O-line look good, and vice versa.

OK...if you say so. From what I've read, Murtha isn't a sure-lock to be beaten out. In fact, there is concern about Martin switching from L to R side, where he hasn't played since high school. So, even if he does start, I'm not sold that it's an upgrade. Just so we're clear, I DO believe that Miami will be a MUCH better team in 2-3 years with some of the moves they made, and with what they need to still make. But they're not going to finish above .500 THIS year with the talent on the current roster. -EK

The good thing is, if he isn't able to switch to the right side, then the Dolphins will have an adequate replacement for Jake Long next year when he walks.

Completely agree. -EK

EXACTLY!!! The last time Miami won the AFC East (2008) we had garbage WR's! It was a group of Ginn, Camarillo, and Bess!!! So really, this whole debate is silly! Some people just like to be outraged and love making mountains out of molehills.  If they aren't complaining they aren't happy!

Bingo! Replacing Columbo with ANYONE is an instant upgrade! Addition by subtraction. Throw in a healthy Jake Long and Pouncey no longer a rookie and this o-line has the potential to be dominate!

Martin can play, this won't be an issue.

I don't think we need to wait until the end of the season.

Gonzalez was released yesterday by New England, he didn't even make it to training camp.  I will be shocked if Stallworth does anything of note as well.

As I stated earlier - "name brands" does not = success at this position.  I'm not sold on the 1,987 wide outs NE brought in, just because I've heard of them before.

Yep. Gonzalez no showed an OTA and that was enough for Belichick to say, don't let the door hit ya! He sent him packing.

Pats signed him for almost no money knowing he was injured conditioned on the idea he would be healed by the time of OTAs.  He was a no show for OTA because he was still injured.  So that Patriots moved on. 

Its a better story if you take the injury out. Saying Belichick dismissed and fired a player because he didn't show for an OPTIONAL practice sounds so much more hardcore.

^^^ Yup, leaving out details always makes the story more interesting. 

Mike putting a spin on a story by leaving something out? NEVER! -EK