The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Listened to Michael Lombardi today of the NFL Network on a radio interview. He gave an amazing stat that I almost can't believe is true, but he swears its true. I am going to see if I can verify it because its so amazing. But the stat was, 90% of the NFL players who made over $15 mill in their NFL Career are currently bankrupt.

That is amazing. 90%! And he was hinting at this but wasn't so cold to say it bluntly, but he was hinting that the NFL needs to fix THAT problem (of players going broke) just as much as they to the concussion problem. The league and union TOGETHER must educate its players more on how better to protect their money and prepare for life after the game. A 2 day rookie symposium(aka..vacation) once in their life at the age of 22 isn't enough!

I know, at the end of the day it always comes down to personal responsibility and you cant help someone who doesn't want to be helped. And there will always be dumb players who do dumb things with their money. But if the number really is 90%, they all can't be dumb. They all aren't bad people. That number is almost a cry for help! I know its tough to feel sorry for someone who had that much money thrown at them and they blew it, but its clearly a problem for the league and it must be addressed.

Starting this by saying it is in no way a rant aimed at Mike. I volunteer in a soup kitchen every weekend, feeding families- many of whom have infants or small children- and I will NOT feel sorry for these overgrown adolescent athletes who mostly got a free education and more money than they should ever spend in a lifetime, and are now broke. Boo- Fing- hoo. Welcome to the real world. Maybe they should spend less money on strippers and drugs and designer everythings- or bounties on other players- and hire a better lawyer and accountant rather than letting family members or friends handle their finances. No...not one bit of sympathy. The fact that 10% are NOT bankrupt is plausibility that it can be done. -EK

It's not really that surprising.  The average career length for NFL players is about 3.5 years... how many people between the ages of 22 and 26 do/did you know that can capably plan their financial future for the rest of their life?

It can be fairly stated that the average player won't make $15m+, and that's true.  But if you look at the players making that kind of money, usually they fall into three camps:

1) high first-rounders that never sign another big contract (e.g. Robert Gallery, Cedric Benson)
2) breakout players that hit the jackpot on their first re-signing, but don't do much after that (e.g. Adalius Thomas, Trent Green)
3) players from either of the first two categories that go on to have long, exceptional careers (e.g. Richard Seymour, Zach Thomas)

I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that the vast majority of people in categories 1) and 2) wind up broke.

Totally agree with your post. And that's the entire  point Michael Lombardi was making and I agree with. These young people are not prepared for what the NFL offers them. And the NFL/Union must do better! It's not about feeling sorry for these rich people. That's not the issue! That's not even close to the issue! It's about the NFL (in this case) along with the NFLPA Union stepping in and preparing their stars/members, these young people for the future. I mean 90% is an insane number and something must be done. These young people are not prepared to handle with or deal with the hand that is dealt them and the league and union must do a better job.

I know the concussion story right now is the "now" issue and the "sexy" media issue. This story though is going to grow legs in the coming weeks, months, and years and it will be an issue the NFL will have to deal with. It gives the league a black eye and a poor reflection of its "stars."

I find that stat as stated very difficult to believe.

For one, I am willing to bet that more than 10% of all NFL players that made over $15 million in their NFL career are currently active and solvent.   

Me too. That's why I want to see if I can verify it somehow.

This is mind blowing to me.  You have to be pretty stupid to blow through $15 million dollars.

I think it's pretty silly when we, as middle-class citizens, declare how stupid you have to be to spend millions of dollars.

Should a 25-year-old who just signed a $25m contract be driving a Camry and living in a $200k 4-bedroom house?  Perhaps he should be buying his clothes at Sears and eating dinner at Appleby's?   I imagine people in rural China who live on (the equivalent of) less than $2000 a year would be equally shocked to hear that a person making $30k/year could ever possibly go broke.

I think that this is more of a commentary on the tragedy of youth, along with the short careers of pro athletes.

^^^ I don't think it's stupid for middle-class people to say if you've got over $15 million and now you're broke, way to go moron. It's because any one of us can feel like if we had that money, we'd be set for life, more or less.

Yes, a 25-year-old who isn't a moron should drive a practical car and live in a practical house. Warren Buffet, according to an article, still lives in the same house he bought decades ago. That's how you live. It isn't that hard.

For the same reason that a lot of people who hit the lottery suddenly end up broke.  They don't know how to manage that money.

I agree with you. First of all how many make over 15 mil in their career? I would guess less than 10% of ALL NFL players make 15 mil or more in their career. Even if it were true that 90% ends up broke, which  don't believe, how many people we talking about? A very small minority. Also, how far back did he go? 

What do you suppose the bankruptcy rate for middle-class lottery winners is?  How about middle-class lottery winners in their early-mid 20s?

How would you feel about someone from a third-world country saying that one must be a moron to be making $20,000 a year (which would be incredible wealth to them) and still lose their home?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that your idea of what is and is not "practical" happens to align nicely with your own income, and not the income of someone making, say, $15k/year.

Just to get some, perhaps, more reputable sources...

Sports Illustrated ran an article a few years ago on this topic. It claims, among other things, that close to 80% of NFL players are bankrupt or in financial trouble two years after leaving the league. 60% of NBA players are claimed to be bankrupt 5 years after retiring.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1153364/1/index.htm

Anyone of any class can certainly say to the class above them that they're a fool for going bankrupt because they feel like they can always live just fine with what the person above them makes. So of course, if someone who makes $15K a year sees someone making $40K a year go bankrupt they'll call them stupid for spending money outside of their means because they could live just fine with $40K a year.

There's no need to get into some sort of argument over semantics (which I've noticed you like to do) when the general idea is you live within your means. If you make $15 million a year and you know pretty good you'll only be making that for maybe another a year or two, you prepare for life without that paycheck.

What's so difficult? I live within my means and own a place as I'm sure other people do here.

P.S. Please note, I'm not saying there are acts of God that make you go bankrupt, but just spending outside of your means and not realizing your paycheck isn't going to last.

I got to wonder though how much of it is because of the athlete's own ignorance (example not knowing how to invest properly or watch closely where his/her money goes) and how much of it is them getting ripped off by agents, crooked accountants, hangers on, family members, shit like that.    It would just seem to me that pro athletes are easy targets for it.  There are plenty of guys in the league who know enough to go "I should let an accountant/firm handle my money" but how many of them are smart enough to know when to say "wait a minute, the firm I hired is ripping me off big time"?

I've gotta think that the majority of this is down to people being incredibly stupid. So I don't have a whole lot of sympathy.

That said, if the NFL and NFLPA want to address this I really don't give a rip as it wouldn't effect me or the game in any way. I have my doubts as to the effectiveness of any program they would implement but if they use money/dues paid by the grown men players I say go for it.

I don't think it's so simple as to call it stupidity.

You're taking people who have no money and then all of a sudden, they're rich.  But people don't understand the nature of the NFL.  ...that your salary dries up.  Even if you pay for a house in cash, you still have to staff it, maintain it, etc.

Then, you have the cases where people take care of their whole families.  I think that there is a large amount of pressure to live large for even those that aren't the highest level of pay.

The point that I'm getting at is threefold:

1) "Living within your means" when you have an eight-figure income does not equal "buying a $200k house and driving an Explorer"
2) Very few people are able to successfully adjust from millionaire income to no income (as evidenced by the history of lottery winners)
3) Holding someone in their early-mid 20s to the responsibility of planning for the rest of their life (or more commonly, effectively overseeing the people they have trusted to do so) is not quite reasonable

You might see this story as a case of idiot NFL players.  I see it as a case where very young athletes, many of whom were never exposed to significant wealth, need assistance in dealing with the transition both to and from million-dollar incomes.

I don't know if this has been mentioned,it might have been in the article,I've not read it.I also just sort of skimmed the responses...

(This probably falls under what Spider said earlier)

I'd add this factor in they got payed to play a game they've more than likely played since they were little.While they went to college,their whole intent was playing in the NFL,less about what they were gonna do after they retired from the NFL.Your Job has been working out staying fit,getting better at your sport.I'd imagine the most of them have little to no job skills,and the guys that do make it in the NFL,can't exactly afford their costs of living working at Lowes...

What job skills do they have other than being very athletic?

I feel that the guy's who struggle to make the league,stay in the league,probably are better equipped/working on the side to transition into normal life after football..

The stat really doesn't surprise me....

Modified to add...Wondering a loud,how many of them also get done in by Baby mama's,child support,and divorces after they leave the game (the dream ends)

You haven't been paying attention. These 'very young athletes' are not responsible for their own actions. You can't expect a poor pathetic child in his twenties to have any self-control or common sense. My God, he's never had pussy coming at him like this before. Stop hatin' on the children. LOL

suck for luck, do you consider having a comprehensive financial plan for the rest of your life fully completed and implemented by the age of 26 to be "common sense"?

Just wondering.

There are very few, if any, 26 yr olds that have a comprehensive blah blah blah. It's called 'life' and shit changes constantly and you adapt to the circumstances.

Life comes at you pretty fast. - Ferris

However, there are plenty of 26 yr olds that do have common sense, that aren't so god-awful stupid, selfish, incompetent and irresponsible as to piss away millions of dollars.

It's easy to be an expert at managing millions of dollars when you don't actually have them.

There's a reason why so many lottery winners wind up broke, and it's not because the lottery skews towards selecting incompetent winners.

Pro athlete, lottery winner, teen heart throb... do they ALL end up penniless? No they don't. Why do you suppose that is? Do you think it just might have something to do with their character?

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=7942886

Michael Lombardi was talking about this (and other issues) with Bill Simmons as well I guess. He talks about the 90% and all with Simmons as well.

I didn't hear him on this show till today. I heard him yesterday on another radio show talking about it. But he uses the same stat with Simmons.

Even according to the original article, not ALL of the pro athletes ended up broke, so I'm not sure I get your point there.

It seems like you're saying that you have to be an idiot to screw up a windfall of millions of dollars.  Instead, I would say that based on the rate at which instant millionaires go bust, it's not "morons" who screw up instant millions... it's basically everyone but the extremely savvy few.

I'd say you'd have to be pretty incompetent with money to screw up millions of dollars.  ;)

What's amazing is that people act like this would never happen to them. How many times do you watch Dateline, and see "average" people swindled out of their life savings? The biggest problem with a lot of the athletes isn't the "lavish" lifestyle. Its the people they trust. The lifestyle doesn't help. Butfriends, families, wives, etc are killers. I just read the SI article. And it already affirmed what I originally thought. Not because, I'm a genius. Because I watch shows like Behind The Music. Its easy to point at drug abuse or frivolous spending. But bad investments are the cancers you don't see. Only when they don't work out, are they bad ideas. Most of us have experience on our side. They don't. Its easy to keep from giving strangers money, but your family? Especially when you're 20-22 years old. They got you this far. Today it would be a lot easier to say, no. Back then, not so much. There's that Trust issue. I understand how it happens. Its amazing that it still happens on this large of a scale. I don't feel any more sorry for them, than any musician that I've seen on Behind The Music.  It just makes me a whole lot smarter, should I ever win the lottery. Because at 36, that NFL rookie contract isn't coming.

Once you factor in that the agents/financial advisors are probably taking a 20% cut, and the government is taking at least 30% in taxes, all of a sudden 50% of the money is gone.  This added to the fact the players have all kinds of hanger ons to please, it goes quick if you are not disciplined.

I'm not sure I agree with that analysis. Seems like you are using the 90% of athletes that screw up millions of dollars of instant income to be indicative of the entire group. I'm sure there are number of instant millionaires that aren't athletes that also go broke, but I don't think it's anywhere close to 90%. On top of that if you include the guys that just become extremely wealthy fairly quickly like the Steve Jobs, Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerburgs of the world, that number drops even lower.

I think there is something to the fact that these guys are not just getting rich, but that they are also quite young, immature and feel very entitled typically because they are athletes and have always been treated "special" because of their ability to play a game. I've seen a lot of high caliber athletes that didn't make it to the pros and didn't become millionaires that basically screwed up their lives once they quit playing sports because sports is all they knew. I don't think the money has anything to do with it, I think it's more the environment these people grow up in and the tools they develop to cope with NOT playing the game anymore.

I've seen sources claiming that 70% (http://journalstar.com/special-section/news/article_ecba141b-3e59-5914-a321-38b4adb20733.html) of lottery winners squander their winnings within a few years.  Of course, there are many factors to consider, but it's out there.

Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, and Mark Zuckerberg are not "instant millionaires" in any useful sense of the term.  Those are people who built and grew a business, advancing through many stages of increasing wealth in the process; contrast this to a lottery winner who goes from food stamps to multimillions with one check, or an NFL draftee who goes from broke college student to ultra-wealthy by signing his first contract.

I think it has less to do with entitlement and more to do with a simple lack of financial savviness.  I certainly don't think lottery winners feel "entitled" (other than the entitlement created by winning millions of dollars), and they still go bust.

But don't you start to see a pattern emerge? It's not just the fact that people are handed a check with a lot of zero's on it, its the fact that the person isn't prepared to handle the money in a financially reasonable way because they are literally not very responsible people. Hand that same money to someone who's had to build a business and they seem to be able to handle it a lot better BECAUSE it's not the same type of person. A guy mature enough to build his own business is a lot better prepared to handle someone handing him a check with lots of zeroes then athletes and someone living off foodstamps. At least I think you can make that argument.

I don't subscribe to the idea that "maturity" is synonymous with "financial expertise."  The ability to manage large sums of liquid wealth (while avoiding scammers, leechers, and bad investments) is not a skillset that many non-rich people would ever have an opportunity to develop.

Rather than categorizing those businessmen as more mature, I would say that gradually escalating wealth gives one more of an opportunity to learn the ropes; you can make mistakes with a 200k/year income that are fairly easy to recover from at a 1m/year income.