The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

The Fins are making a big push to let their fans know that they're focusing on tradition and football on the field.  Just today, I was called (as a season ticket holder, not related to TDMMC) by the organization and involved in a conference call with Steven Ross, where he talked a lot about this.

Do you believe it as the heart of the team now?  Or is just what they're saying to spin the negative press?

Actions speak louder than words.  The signing of Chad Ochocinco should tell you all you need to know. 

^^ This is a terrible example.  Chad Ochocinco is a servicable player and doesn't equate to "circus"

I don't like the whirlwind tour of "lets have conference calls with fans" - that sounds like damage control to me.

That said, it makes sense from a marketing perspective to leave the past behind and focus on a new era.  There's a new coach, a new team, a lot of the old is gone (JT, YB, Henne, etc) and there could be a lot to be excited about.  Truth is, we just don't know yet.  So, it makes sense that they are trying to go the direction of what fans want. 

Sadly, I think the only way they can accomplish that is to get Stephen Ross as far away from the team as possible, rather than MORE involved.

I'm not sure....I just read through an article about this call by Ben Volin of the PBP.

Change the uniform fine, no problem...

The fan vision stuff - I don't care, I kind of agree with Peter king,it's stupid taking attentin away from the field.People already have their own stuff to check scores,stats,etc if they want it...

Putting a cover of some type on the stadium - I'm Torn,because of Brian Fein,talking about the Marlins stadium being closed so much.Partial roof ok,full roof...I'm not

Changing the colors and logo - I fucking HATE the idea of it..I think they will just fuck it up horribly,this is the same brain trust with the orange carpet,celebrity owners.Say tradition then fuck it all up...minor tweak fine,overhaul change up I hate.Lot's of teams have kept their colors,and tweaked their uni's,and logo...No need to re brand,by changing everything...http://www.sportslogos.net/league.php?id=7 (http://www.sportslogos.net/league.php?id=7) It's the site I've kept for looking up the team my parents owned,then used to copy all the older logos for my favorite teams (Dolphins Cubs)

Modified to add- Yeah it's the colors and logo of our team is why we suck,and the brand has a problem...Change the logo and colors is just trying to hide the same old problems.

just my two cents...

Let's see.  Trade a productive cancer and bring in a non productive cancer who is only a shadow of his former self. 

Trade away an underperforming $16M cap hit with an attitude problem and bring in a low risk, high reward veteran in a position of need.

Perspective.

I always thought Tommy was in favor of bringing in players under a one year, low risk contract. I guess there was no mention of incentive based pay so that is his issue with it.

It was an excellent example... Ochocinco is a washed-up player and equates perfectly to a circus.


Not sure about damage control, but have you ever seen the clean-up effort that goes on after a circus performance is done? Those carnies are all assholes and elbows until all the cotton candy wrappers are picked up and all the elephant shit is washed away.

I wholeheartedly disagree.
I agree he stunk it up last season.  But Randy Moss stunk it up in Oakland too.  Sometimes players don't fit with a team.  I'm going to wait and see which Ochocinco shows up to camp before I proclaim it a circus.

Nope, don't buy it. All a pantload.

But once you agree that he stunk it up in three of his last four seasons, you should hear that Big Top calliope start playing.

People are having a hard time prying apart the player from the off field stuff.  In reality the player does this quite well.  No off field issues at all.  I have a little bit of an issue with the "three ring circus" thing.  Why?  Because the guy has a Twitter account and a mouthy wife?  Has she ever stabbed him?  Who cares at the end of the day.  He works hard on the field, is a good soldier ON the field and might be a good fit ON THE FIELD.

New England didn't cut him sooner because they signed him originally to a two year 6 million deal, which Chad restructured -- ALLOWING them to cut him without taking a huge hit, cap wise.  Miami signed him to a cap friendly one year deal.  If it doesn't work, you move on.  Without 85, Miami is looking for help at WR.  With him - they might have found something.

Three ring circus?  No.  Not even close.

18 TDS during that 4 year period is more than the the #2 and #3 Dolphins WRs combined- FOR THEIR ENTIRE CAREERS. He's a badly needed step up and in the right direction. -EK

That's more an indictment of Miami's WRs than an endorsement of Ocho... and we have differing opinions on the whole "direction" thing.

Why do people keep bringing up Moss?  Moss had no QB in OAK.  When he went to NE, he set the single-season record for TDs.

Ocho had a VERY good QB in NE... and did nothing.  The proper analogy would be Moss going to MIN or TEN after leaving NE.

Because he punched his coach in the face and declared his intention to participate in a fineable offense before a game (then followed through with it).

It's funny that people who were quick to bash Marshall for the ball flip at Cutler or the statement that he planned to get kicked from a game are lining up to defend Chad, who did the same things but worse.

Would you like to be completely defined by your past?

Situations count.  Marshall flipped the ball at Cutler and cost the team a big play + 15 yards in a game where the offense couldn't get going and got beat 16-0.  It was stupidity that he was being ripped for, not the ball flip.  His head wasn't in the game, and that dumb ass penalty cost the team a lot for no reason.

And Brandon Marshall never said "I'm gonna get thrown out of the game?"
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-10-14/sports/30293936_1_brandon-marshall-jets-center-nick-mangold-rex-ryan

Difference is: Brandon Marshall cost 16 million dollars.  Chad costs the vet minimum.  Brandon Marshall thinks he's the best WR in the game.  Chad just got off the biggest reality check of his career.

I still don't doubt Marshall is a better athletic talent than Chad RIGHT NOW because he's younger.  But I believe if I could trade Brandon Marshall (and his contract) for Chad Ochocinco and 2 3rd round picks, I'd do it every single day.  This is essentially what happened.

Marshall didn't follow through on his promise to get thrown out.  Chad did follow through on his promise to get fined.

And as far as differences:  Marshall is coming off of a Pro Bowl season.  Chad is coming off of being released by a team with a top-tier QB.

It's hard to complain about the size of Marshall's contract when Ireland is the one who signed him to it.  Are you saying that when that contract was signed, the expectations were that he would be... what, All-Pro?  If so, Ireland is an idiot and deserves to be bashed.  Marshall is what he is, and Miami got what they bargained for.  To trade him away for peanuts 2 years later is stupid.

Wait... are you talking about Marshall, or Ochocinco?

There seems to be a rampant double-standard going on.

But how often does a player not fit with NE and then fit well somewhere else?

While BB has had his share of draft busts and players he signed that underperformed (Ocho for example) but he doesn't have a history of cutting players that then go on to perform well elsewhere. 

In a new regime, when you're starting all over with a new coach, Brandon Marshall doesn't fit.

I fail to understand how you can be OPPOSED to paying the vet minimum for a guy who will probably be your 3rd best WR on the team.  A team that is PAPER THIN at WR.  Rather have Chad Ochocinco or Rolando Williams?  Marlon Moore?  Legedu Nannee?

The guy was a bad fit for New England.  True.  Its low risk, but if he's worth it, could be a big payoff.  Where's the negative?  And stop telling me about he punched a coach in the face in 2006.

I never had a problem with Marshall.  I have the guy's jersey, actually.  So don't point that finger at me.

I'm not the one running up and down the hall screaming about a person's past, either player.

Not even close to a double standard. For one, Ocho is playing for the vet minimum while Marshall is one of the highest paid WR's in the entire league. The level of expectations are vastly different with those contracts.

Also, what Ocho allegedly did was a very long time ago (2006 I believe) and since then he has been in no trouble on or off the field. Lots of silly reality shows and antics, but no serious trouble by any means involving arrests, police and what not. While Brandon Marshall is in some sort of altercation, stabbing, fight, being arrested, or whatever every few months.



Once again, not close to a double standard. Not remotely close.

^Wasn't Marshall somehow involved in the shooting that left his teammate dead in Denver (did he instigate the shooting, something like that)?

...which is consistent with the fact that Marshall made the Pro Bowl while Ocho had 15 catches on the year.

The quote I cited earlier about Chad threatening to whoop Marvin Lewis' ass the next time he saw him (http://deadspin.com/5817193/chad-ochocinco-threatens-to-whoop-marvin-lewiss-ass) was from June 2011, a couple of weeks after Chad publicly took to Twitter to issue profanity-laced complaints about his treatment by said coach.

The only reason you haven't heard any circus-worthy comments from Chad in the last year is because he's been wearing the Belichick muzzle.  Do you honestly believe that he'll be the good soldier in Miami?

Again, I find it rather disturbing that people continue to hold being a victim of domestic violence against Marshall.  I guess he was Asking For It, right?

With Brandon's HISTORY and RAP SHEET of domestic violence trouble, YEAH he probably was asking for it!  ::) Between 2006-2008 the Denver police had to go to his house 11 times for domestic violence calls.  So yeah, he probably was asking for it! That was JUST a 2 year time span. Since then he has had a number of issues. Since then he has  been charged with battery and disorderly conduct among other things by the police!

He lost the benefit of the doubt! Sorry.

If it was JUST the domestic violence issue where he got stabbed you might have a case. But it was refusing to pay a taxi driver and being arrested for that, it was the nightclub in NYC incident, it was lying to police about the stabbing, it was about 50 other things in "RECENT" history that Marshall has on his plate that he has done. Where with Chad you have a couple issues and all far less serious.

Once again NOT a double standard. They aren't even close to being equal.

People keep bringing up Moss because he's relevant!  Moss had that same QB his last season with them and also didn't do much... Moss has not lost a step either!  So, why did Moss all the sudden have problems?

They say he still has the ability to easily run past defenders...

Ocho ran his mouth about punching someone.  Marshall's actions might have lead to someone's life being taken.

http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/pulp/2011/04/brandon_marshall_murder_darrent_williams.php

Meanwhile, Ocho has otherwise calmed down while problems continue to follow Marshall.  Funny how that works.

Okay so your theory is Brady is a WR killer.   ???

Moss's problem in 2010 and Ocho's problem in 2011 is that they had a horrible QB/bad system.  Of course that explains why he did such great things in Minn they cut him and in Tenn they didn't re-sign him.

Seriously?

Maine, would you like to be completely defined by your past?

Ocho has spent the last year with the Belichick muzzle on.  We'll see how he acts in Miami.

Seriously?

You got that from my post?

My point was Moss still has ability to get open and his last yr with the Pats he wasn't targeted much... maybe teams rolled coverage to him more which took him away... which many teams did!   Teams weren't going to let Moss beat them deep and usually blanket covered him.   Also, with the emergence of the Pat's TE's their passing focus changed to match up problems the TE's cost defenses...     

No he didn't have the ability to still get open, nor were teams blanketing him.  That is why he had a grand total of 13 receptions in Minn and 6 in Tenn. 

The emergance of the TE centric offense didn't occur until after Moss left.

Bottom line: if Moss was still a serious deep threat BB would not have traded him to the Vikings. And if Ocho was still a deep threat he would not have been cut. 

What is your explanation for why MIN cut him and TEN did not attempt to re-sign him?

Or for why he performed so poorly with both of them?

Isn't that how everyone is defined? 

If you apply for a job, they ask about your past.

If you run for office, you are elected based on what you did in the past.

Kids get into college based on what they did in the past (high school).

When you propose to someone to get married they say yes or no based on what you did on PAST dates. 

I meant bracket coverage not blanket... 

Maybe because Moss was never a great route runner... and those teams didn't have a QB to get the ball to him anyway!  To say teams don't or didn't bracket cover Moss or roll coverage to him is just idiotic!   You can easily watch film and see teams were taking Moss away in his last season with New England... Since he's never been a great route runner but used his athletic ability it's easier to take him away then when he was younger.

Moss stills runs the 40 in sub 4.4 speed so to think he can't still run past someone is insane!

1.Did either of those teams have an elite QB? 
2.How about elite TE's?
3.Did either have any other talent to take away bracket coverage away from Moss?

how about "NO" to all three!

Here's quotes from the 49's OTA's on Randy Moss!





Randy Moss problem has always been his drive or lack thereof... his consistency is his problem! 

...which makes those teams very similar to the Miami Dolphins!

What was your point, again?

Hey, do you know where I can find the quotes from DEN and SEA players saying, "Man, Jerry Rice just doesn't have what it takes to play in this league anymore... he should do himself a favor and retire"?

Of course his teammates are going to say that he looks good.  What do you expect them to say?  "I don't know, he looked a lot faster back in New England, but I guess we can give him a chance..."

Are you serious?

What does Moss have to do with Miami?

You asked questions about why Moss didn't do well in Min and Tenn... now you've switched that to Miami? ???

 :D LOL!

My point is that some of you are never happy!  It doesn't matter what Miami does or tries to accomplish... you'll find someway to trash the decision!  Then some of you and I'm speaking to you directly!  Just love to debate for the sake of debating... you ask me a question I answer it now you flip the question...  SMH! ::)

It would be great if you could follow your own point.

YOU are the one who insisted that Moss is relevant to the discussion.  Moss went from underperforming in NE, a team with all of the attributes you just listed, to two weak teams (MIN and TEN) with none of those things.  And he still sucked with those clubs!

Ocho is doing the same thing.  What, exactly, is the argument you are making as to why he will not suffer the same fate?  That Randy Moss really isn't washed up, after having been let go by both the top and the bottom teams?

Bingo!

Marshall has serious distractions involving police and stuff and court dates and all that nonsense. Ocho is just a reality show/Camera whore.

Ochocinco doesn't even drink liquor. Comparing the 2 is unfair. They aren't even on the same level of person or get in the same type of issues.

Might have?  More like his actions certainly did.  Marshall and his cousin got drunk and got on the bad side of a high ranking gang member and his crew.  All the evidence suggests that Marshall was the intended target that night. 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1184186/8/index.htm

My question is, what were these celebrity millionaire athletes doing in a nightclub where gang members were hanging out?  If they wanted to drink and party and celebrate the new year, the best thing to do would have been to go to a private club or rent out a place and invite only people close to them.  They could've afforded it with the money they had.

I'm not the one railing on and on about both, though, am I?  You're constantly bringing up one while leaving out the other.  I'm pointing out Marshall wasn't an angel (while equally pointing out I liked THAT guy too).

You clearly have a hair across your back side for Cinco - we got it.

For some reason the quote feature isn't working.

Hoodie said:
"Isn't that how everyone is defined? 

If you apply for a job, they ask about your past.

If you run for office, you are elected based on what you did in the past.

Kids get into college based on what they did in the past (high school).

When you propose to someone to get married they say yes or no based on what you did on PAST dates. "

Sure, this is true.

What is ALSO true?  Second chances.  Are you the exact same person today as you were when you were 16? 

I mean, seriously?  Come on.  People can and do change.

My entire point with Spider is this:  He's painting this awful picture of Cinco.  He's that,  he's this, he's done that.  He's the reason we invaded Iraq, he's the worst person in the history of people.  We never should have gotten rid of Marshall if we were going to just sign Cinco.  Well, if we're going to air dirty laundry, how about airing all of it?  Because if we're going to compare apples to apples, Marshalls' are more spoiled at the end of the day, in the light of day.  Me, I don't give a crap.  I just want someone to catch the darn ball.

No, I'm saying that if behavior issues are a valid reason to discard the best skill-position player on your offense, they damned well better be a valid reason to pass on an over-the-hill diva.

You and I both know it wasn't, though - no matter how much people want it to be.  The sky is blue, water is wet and the NFL (including the Dolphins) is full of bad dudes I wouldn't trust to park my car. 

It was about money and the cap.

Yeah, but that rationale isn't any better.  The Dolphins were getting what they were paying for from Marshall: a Pro Bowl (but not All-Pro) receiver who isn't going to score lots of TDs, but racks up plenty of production between the 20s.  He has always been that player.

Marshall was let go for 3 reasons, not just 1 (being behavior). It was a combination of things

1) Didn't live up to the contract and he was hurting the salary cap.
2) Lockeroom cancer. Couldn't get along with any QB's and was throwing the head coach, Off Coordinator, and WR coach under the bus in the press.
3) TONS of off the field issues and he was an embarrassment to the franchise.

It just came down to Brandon Marshall being a "bad person. " If he was an elite or the top 1 or 2 WR's in the game today, maybe you put up with it. But he isn't. And the Dolphins can come in 3rd or 4th place with or without him.

I'll buy rebranding when the team starts winning consistantly again.  Otherwise, it's lip service and the lost decade will continue.

I don't attach re-branding with winning. Winning helps, don't get me wrong. It's a short-cut to re-branding.  But the Fins can be re-branded by doing the little things better. Getting rid of the clown players who make headlines for stuff off the field (Ricky, Brandon..etc), put in a head coach who knows what the hell he is doing, having fans actually at the games, having DOLPHINS FANS actually at the games, having their GM not ask college players if their mom was a prostitute, have an owner try not to hire a head coach when he has one under contract, get rid of the stupid orange carpet (which they have thank god), and get rid of the .002% celebrity owners with interests in the team.

If they did that and went 6-10 as they are rebuilding, they would still be re-branding, be on the right path, change their image and shine a better light on themselves overall.

Let me ask you this:  what was the last losing team you can remember that had a successful "rebranding" effort while continuing to be a loser?

At the end of the day, there is only one kind of rebranding that matters.  If you win, you're a genius; if you lose, you're an idiot.

Rebranding doesn't happen overnight and it goes beyond winning and losing. It is a process.  The 2010 Detroit Lions went 6-10 but won their last 4 games of the year. Including their first road win in like 3 years or something. The Lions had a losing year but ended on a positive note and you could tell they weren't the "Same Ole Lions" anymore. The rebranding started in 2010 during their losing season because they played hard all season, even in losses, were doing the "right things" in player moves and draft picks, hired a bright yougn coach who know what he was doing, and yes they began winning but it wasn't "just the winning".  And they took the next step by making the playoffs in 2011. It's a process and it isn't just "winning" or "losing."

I couldn't agree more. Until we see wins, I will call BS on it all.

What has really changed for us to believe the outcome this year will be any different than most of this last 12 years ?

To me this year has more in common with 2007 than I would ever want to admit.

But be prepared DolFans

It has  a lot in common with 2008 too.  Howsoever, it's not year one that's going to impress me.  We see repeatedly in the NFL that a new coach comes in, does a year one turnaround and the team goes right back to sucking again.  It's going to be sustained excellence that I'm looking for.

Are you pinning your hopes for success on Tom Brady getting injured in the first quarter of the first game of the season?

Cute.  For the record I'm pinning my hopes on a head coach who isn't a one hit wonder.  I don't have to pin my hopes on Tom Brady getting hurt because we actually have a pretty decent record against him considering how dominant they are and how bad Miami has been. 

My point was in both 2007 and 2008 we were bringing in entirely new staffs with everybody running around until the last minute figuring out which McQuarterback we were going to hire.  One resulted in a division title, one resulted in the worst season in franchise history.