The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Jeff Ireland is laughing at this news story. Dez Bryant assaulted his mother!

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/8173444/dez-bryant-dallas-cowboys-allegedly-assaulted-mom-police-say

I don't get the Divia receiver sickness!

I hate to admit but, it only seems to afflict black receivers!    I can't ever remember any white receivers that were head cases! 

Why is this in the Dolphin Forum?

Jeff Ireland probably doesn't care one way or the other.  And nor should he.  I'm sure he's doing his best to forget his experience with Dez.

Ha, ha, I find myself thinking the same thing sometimes. Must be something in the water........

'nuff said.

But seriously folks, just because Jeremy Shockey was too big and slow to be classified as a WR, that doesn't make it a black thing.

lol., not to mention Wes Welker at his own Bachelor party was involved in near brawl/altercation at an ASPEN restaurant and he had to be physically removed.

I don't see it as a "black/white" thing at all.

I hadn't heard about the Welker thing... I just look at guys like T.O., Ohcho Cinco, Dez Bryant, Andre Rison etc... and don't see those issues with Steve Largent, Don Bebe,Wayne Cherbet, Howard Twilly, Jimmy Cefelo etc...  Of course there are great receivers that were black that never had issues like Jerry Rice,Paul Warfield,Art Monk etc..

IDK!

I get what you're saying and it's the 100% truth !!!

Steve Largent- ancient
Don Beebe- scrub (0 Pro Bowls)
Wayne Chrebet- scrub (0 Pro Bowls)
Howard Twilley- ancient scrub (0 Pro Bowls)
Jimmy Cefalo- ancient scrub (0 Pro Bowls)

It's hard to be a diva when you are not particularly good, and I don't think you had many diva WRs in the 60s and 70s.

edit: I know there may be some sandy vaginas over my use of the word "scrub," so let me clarify: by "scrub," I mean role players that spend a large portion of their career coming off the bench and do not establish themselves among the best at their position.  If you are a player that needs to contribute on special teams to make the roster, You Might Be A Scrub.

Well, Wes Welker hasn't displayed any of that behavior...

Ed McCaffrey- 1 pro bowl •Career: 185 games, 565 receptions, 7422 yards, 13.1 yards/catch, 55 touchdowns.
Cris Collinsworth- 3 pro bowls •Career: 90 games, 417 receptions, 6698 yards, 16.1 yards/catch, 36 touchdowns.

not many white pro bowl receivers that I can think of in the recent era!  I don't consider Chrebet a scrub he did a pretty good job on Miami for yrs and was hardly shut down by anyone...  His numbers beat Collinsworth's who played in 3 pro bowls!

Chrebet #'s •Career: 152 games, 580 receptions, 7365 yards, 12.7 yards/catch, 41 touchdowns.

New England Patriot Wes Welker gets in fights with security at Aspen Food & Wine Festival - NYPOST.com (http://www.nypost.com/p/pagesix/wes_tackled_by_aspen_cops_WAY11Kal29MJOXSOXcwBTN#ixzz1yEqacoOa)

Note that this happened not when Welker was a scrub struggling to make the roster on SD or MIA, but after he was a 4-time Pro Bowler (and 2-time All-Pro) with NE.  Ahem.

Yes, Chrebet put up slightly better statistics than Cris Collinsworth... while taking ~70% more games to do so.  And even if it were true, "he's arguably better than Cris Collinsworth!" is not exactly going strong to the hole.

The Welker incident is a single occurance... far from what anyone would consider DRS (Diva Receiver Sickness) or diva receiver like!  In any case I still don't understand why it seems to afflict receivers more than any other position.  I would expect to see it from RB's if any position...

It's not a football position thing as much as it is a culture thing in sports. There is a difference between black and whites in different situations, and this is but one of them. For some reason, as a whole, blacks tend to brag, be flashy, and get loud more than other ethnic groups. Show me white players that run their mouth like T.O., Ocho Cinco, Bart Scott, Randy Moss, Joey Porter, Channing Crowder or any other of the countless black players. Not saying that all black players are like that, nor am I saying that there are no white players that are like that. But the overwhelming majority of the loud, rude, flashy, bragging is from the black players. You never saw Marino, running around doing that silly childish shit. Never seen Manny Pacquiao act like that, but on the other hand what is Floyd Mayweather doing every time you see him ? Bragging about buying Maybachs and Roles Royces with cash, throwing money in the air at night clubs, while claiming to be the best at everything from boxing to flossing his teeth. So sad !!!

I agree it's a culture thing... I myself have fallen into the show and flash during my lifetime.   It's kinda a old slave mentality thing.  It's a running joke amongst most of us (blacks) that ever since the slave owners separated house and field slaves... that we've never been the same!   In the black community it has gone on for decades that people use to being poor and not having anything tended to show off once they aquired things.   It was a way to show that they were different than others or favored!   Thus the saying that since master divided us we have never been able to unite!

You see it with some lighter skin blacks... they feel they are better because they're not black or as black!  Many blacks from other countries consider themselves better than American blacks!  I remember growing up how many Hatians and Jamacains refused to be classified as black because they felt it was a insult to lump them with American blacks who they looked down upon themselves!

I don't agree that it's a "culture" thing. I believe it's a class thing. As in, lack thereof. Its too easy to turn culture into a stereotype. At the same time, T.O.  and Ocho may be "flashy", but they don't get in trouble with the law. Rex Ryan isn't black, yet no one lankest him as a "diva" coach. They definitely don't call him black. At worst, he's an individual. Yet, these receivers can't be seen in the same light. What Dez Bryant allegedly did, was wrong. Not every player arrested is a black receiver. Nor were they all black players. Its like using a Fox Newsism. "Not all black receivers are divas, but all divas are black receivers." That's a bullshit argument. Now if you'll excuse me, I have a discussion celebration to choreograph.

I will agree with you that it is a class thing also. But I would say that black culture plays into it just as much. I never said that all black and no whites are like that. Having said that though, I would venture to say that the majority of this behavior is from the black culture, you may be able to pick a white or Hispanic guy here or there, but no where near the percentage. The reason stereotypes exist is because there is an element of truth to them many times. Ask yourself this question. Do you see black people ACTING flashy, bragging, and running their mouths more than other ethnic groups ?

I see your point. However, I would say that it depends on the environment. If I'm watching TV, then more blacks act like that. I lived in El Paso for 4 years. I would say more Hispanics acted like that then. My job now takes me across the midwest & southeast. And I would say more whites act like that. So again, it would depend on the environment.

I guess the formula turns in revese at the coaching level.  Show me a black coach with a worse foul mouth than Rex Ryan or a white coach that is a respectful as Tony Dungy. 

Totally different scenario. Most coaches wouldn't make it doing and saying what Rex Ryan does. If Dungy or any multitude of black or white coaches had a mouth like Ryan they wouldn't wouldn't have made it in my opinion. Rex Ryan is overhyped and living off his prior family success. That's how he got where he is.


Well I listed several just off the top of my head, but can't really think of any white players that do that. If you can please do. Jeremy Shocky has been mentioned a couple times. I can accept that, but I would say he is more opinionated as opposed to flashy and always bragging about himself like a high school drama queen diva. I may be wrong about him though as I haven't really kept up with him that much, but I do remember him being kind of obnoxious. As far as Welker goes, I disagree, getting into a fight or a scuffle is totally different than what I'm talking about.


Well do you ?

Quoting yourself in a thread is about as "flashy" as speaking in third person.  >:D

Not really, but if you say so. Just repeating my questions. I have found through numerous threads here that people won't answer a simple question. Even though they disagree with you they won't answer and tippy toe around the subject. Blacks, whites, and all other ethnic groups have positives and negatives about them. Does that make it wrong to talk about ?

No point.  I answered your question with an counter example, proving your question flawed.  You dismissed.  Bottom line is nobody is going to convince to drop your racist prejudices. 

You answered my question with a counter example ? Flawed question ? The only flawed question is one that can't be understood or one that is ambiguous. My question was very straight forward with a simple yes or no answer, a third grader could understand it. BTW, You answer a question with an answer, not a counter example and only thing you proved is your flawed logic or your purposeful avoidance of the perfectly acceptable topic. A topic that was brought up by someone else who on the surface seems to agree with me. Who might I add is black. You gonna call him a prejudice racist too ?


Some people aren't adult enough to discuss adult things. These people would rather cry and whine like a little 12 year old school girl having her first period rather than acting like a man. Boo fucking hoo, go cry to momma.

Anyhow, I would like to thank Diehard_Dolfan and el diablo for having a somewhat civil discussion, even if we don't totally agree.
 /thread

Probably because there aren't that many white wide recievers in the NFL. 

bingo!

The population of wide receivers is predominantly black.  I couldn't find the demographics numbers.  If you put 50 black marbles and 5 white marble in a bag and randomly choose 6 of them, what are the odds that all 6 will be black?

During this teachable moment, I would like to thank Badger for the acknowledgement. We may disagree, but at least I'm always open to a deeper understanding. As if it matters, I'm also black.

Great point. I don't know the odds (probabilities are above my pay grade), but are we to assume that the other 39 black marbles are predisposed to become flashy? Couldn't we assume that the 6 flashy black marbles are just flashy individuals? Do we assume that the 5 white marbles are "immune" from becoming flashy? Or is it that if they become flashy they were influenced by the 6 black flashy ones? This is the problem with generalizations. A mere 13% of the black marbles somehow become the "normal" behavior trait for 100% of a population.

no, assume all marbles have the same probability of being flashy.  the 6 you choose are the flashy ones.

I'm not following your numbers.

50 black marbles, 5 white ones.  55 total.  pick 6.  I'm guessing you have somewhere around 90% chance that all 6 flashy ones are black.

This builds on the assumption that all marbles have equal chance of being flashy and the result is still the same.

6 time marbles champ Marty King retires from the American Marbles Tour

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the flashiness of their marbles, but by the content of their character.

If you have a bag of 55 marbles, 50 of which are black, the probability of removing 6 black marbles in a row (presuming you don't put them back in the bag as you remove them) is 54.81%.  (It's a ~90% chance to pull out 1 black marble, but the odds of pulling out 6 in a row is roughly 0.9 x 0.9 x 0.9 x 0.9 x 0.9 x 0.9, or ~50%.)

That being said, when you consider that it's really only the elite WRs that are going to be divas, and that the overwhelming majority (more than 90%) of elite WRs are black, and that one of the extremely rare elite white WRs ALSO got in trouble for being a diva, the analogy isn't quite accurate.

My bad. I thought it was 50 total marbles. Does it change the equation that now we're talking about a 12.2% minority?

54.8%.

The odds that the first marble would be black is 50/55.  Given that the first marble is black the odds the second marble is black would be 49/54.  Givent that the first two marbles are black the odds the third marble is black would be 48/53. ... The odds the 6th marble would be black would be 45/50.  Multply the events and you get .548

Why is that?

I think white receivers like Wayne Cherbet and Steve Largent proved it's not all about speed!   Wes Welker wasn't even seriously thought of as a receiver even though he put up good numbers at Texas Tech.  Seems to be reverse stereotyping when it comes to receivers and RB's... I think Hillis is a beast!

Um, Wayne Chrebet never made a Pro Bowl and Steve Largent was drafted back when there were plenty of white WRs.

Since it seems to be impossible to continue this conversation without involving the race card, I'll just say this:

Wide receivers these days are expected to be tall.
Tall players that are black usually end up being groomed for WR.
Tall players that are white usually end up being groomed for... another position.  (Miami's most recent draft pick is an example of this.)

Just take a look at how many black QBs in college end up becoming WRs in the NFL.  (It is far from uncommon.)  So I wouldn't exactly say that the lack of white WRs is due to anti-white prejudice at the WR position as much as it is that a 6'3" white player is going to be slotted as a QB instead.

Why is your only response about Chrebet that he never made a pro bowl?  He put up better numbers than receivers that did make pro bowls IE Cris Collinsworth 3 pro bowls...  It's just a discussion... I'm not trying to make this a race relations issue!

I was pointing out that he wasn't particularly good.

You realize that Chrebet was drafted 7 years after Collinsworth retired, right?  Jim Everett put up better numbers than Bob Griese.  Does this mean that Everett should be in the HOF, too?

The era in which you play makes a difference.