The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

The entire offense gets my vote this week.   

I'm giving mine to Jeffy Fireland. There is no reason for this team to be this bad. Fireland is a fucking jackoff that has gotten ZERO talent this year.  He trades away the best receiver on this team, turns around and does a half assed job to address the receiver position in the draft or in free agency.  Then he turns around halfway through the preseason and does the same thing with secondary which flat out sucked to begin with.  He must be doing sexual favors for Ross for him to still keep his job.

I don't know exactly who this falls on, but the biggest issue today was balls tipped at the line.  Unless someone can convince me otherwise, I have to say Tannehill.  3 first half interceptions can't happen.

My initial reaction was to say it's Tannehll as well for staring down receivers and not creating some lane to throw in for himself. I don't know if that's also on the line men to some degree.

...which is weird because I didn't feel that Tannehill was bad.

He wasn't very good either. Tannehill with 3 turnovers should be the only person getting votes here. -EK

He wasn't that bad. He did overthrow an open receiver or two that would have given us a big gain and of course had 3 picks. I agree that he has to be the one that receives the shame of the game. I don't know who else you can give it to that actually wears pads and a uniform.

Tannehill.  Clearly he hasn't learned how not to throw footballs over the offensive line yet, he had a snap hit him in face and he botched it. 

HM Richie Incognito for two stupid ass holding penalties.

HM Daniel Thomas for being a nancy boy.

No one who watched the game and is in the know is blaming Ryan. It's pretty much disenchanted fans. Batted balls are the result of offensive linemen not engaging the defense.

We are short playmakers. I can't blame a turd for stinking. I have to blame the guy who forced me to smell it. My vote is Ireland.

If it had been just the two that were tipped and intercepted, I would agree, but he had at least 5 passes knocked down.

2 that led to picks, 2 others that I remember being that Watts loser, and then in the red zone he had another one tipped and knocked down by #98. 

I don't blame Tannehill for throwing three picks two of which were tipped balls.  He missed a couple guys that were wide open, and he took checkdowns on third and fourth downs when you absolutely have to shoot at the first down or the endzone.   

That said, It's his first start, this is all shit that can easily be fixed by Tannehill in practice and with the coaching staff, but he gets shame of the game today.  I'm sure it won't be last bad game he has this year. 

Part of the tipped passes were on the offensive line but part were on Tannehill for telegraphing his throws.  He needs to learn to pump fake.

I'm not knocking the Tannehill pick....

And I have to give the Texans Defense a lot of credit...

I'm going with Sherman,for my vote.... for these reasons...
1.) Should have called roll outs,boot legs,more play action.Especially after the balls started getting batted around...Everything we were running in the 1st half was quick 3 step,get it out of your hands..No shots down the field early....

2.)(which goes to my point 1) We rarely took advantage of Tannehills' athleticism in our game plan...

Yeah Tannehill had a horrendous 2nd quarter,but did some good things I liked also...It's the facts of life with a rookie QB starting, you take the good,you take the bad....

Modified to add: MikeO sent me... :D

Great quote there B!!! This should be our motto for this year!!

Jonathan Martin. Got schooled today by Watt. But let's not forget he was also making his rookie debut against a tough opponent after switching from left tackle to right tackle. He actually did a pretty good job when you consider that.

This made me laugh.

I agree that Ireland has put us in a position to fail.  But today, in this game, we didn't lose on talent.  We lost on technique.

So, by that token Ireland gets the blame for every loss this season, because we have shitty players?

Kind of a cop out.

Tannehill is the ONLY choice.  Tipped balls was a problem in preseason and he's done nothing to improve.  It will continue to be a problem if he doesn't address it.

Eagerly awaiting Spider and Mike's responses to this absolutely on point analysis. -EK

I am torn between Tannehill and the o-line. It certainly looked like there was quite a bit of staring down received, but CF is right. The 0-line needs to engage the d-line in order to keep their hands down.

I am not letting Tanny off the hook, but if the D-line is able to jump up to knock down balls, that's bad.  The O-line is responsible for pushing against the D-line so that they can't get their hands up, much less jump. 

This might also have to do with the move to the west coast offense, which is faster passes, with less time for those passing lanes to open up.

Either way, the team needs to address this as their #1 priority.

Do you recognize the difference between "I think Tannehill had the worst game of any Dolphin today" and "Tannehill is not the solution at QB"?

I have no objection to the statement that Tannehill is the SOTG.  I do have an objection to claims that Tannehill is a bust after a whopping two quarters of regular-season play in the NFL.  And to my knowledge, you're the only person on this forum that's making that claim.

In fact, I would like to see how many of the people who voted Tannehill as SOTG (I count Dave, Cathal, BigDaddyFin, and maybe Landshark and Phishfan) also agree with your assessment (after less than a full game!) that Tannehill was a wasted pick.

Let's get our cards on the table.

Sample size of this board is not a very compelling argument. Before he was drafted there were multiple people in the media who thought Miami was nuts to reach for him at 8. AFTER he was drafted there were multiple people saying he shouldn't start this year. One of several opinion pieces from outside this board:

"Ryan Tannehill: Week 1 Struggles Show Rookie Is Not Ready for Big Stage
By Rob Goldberg on September 9, 2012

Miami Dolphins head coach Joe Philbin might have made the wrong decision by starting Ryan Tannehill at quarterback in his first career game.

The rookie from Texas A&M was named the Week 1 starter after beating out incumbent starter Matt Moore during the preseason. Veteran David Garrard was also in the mix until he got injured.

Unfortunately, Tannehill struggled in his NFL debut. In a 30-10 defeat to the Houston Texans, the quarterback threw three interceptions and had zero touchdowns. He finished with a respectable 219 passing yards, but it was on 36 attempts in which he only completed 20 of them. His overall quarterback rating was a 39.0.

What made things worse was the fact that he could not get any aspect of the offense going throughout the game. The unit managed a field goal in the first quarter but were shut out for the rest of the game. A 72-yard punt return by Marcus Thigpen resulted in the only touchdown for Miami.

A poor first game is not uncommon, especially against a Super Bowl contender like the Texans. However, the rookie looked completely overmatched and not ready to lead his team.

Tannehill is hurt by a lack of experience at the position. He was a receiver at Texas A&M until partway through his junior season. When he became a full-time quarterback, he showed great potential with his arm strength and athleticism. However, he also struggled with accuracy at times and showed poor decision-making with 15 interceptions his senior year.

For these reasons, many believed the Dolphins selected the youngster with the No. 8 overall pick of the draft as more of a project. He had talent, but he was too raw to play early in his rookie year if at all.
However, the Miami coaching staff threw him on the field and are forcing him to learn as he goes. This will not only hurt the team as it tries to win games, but it might hurt the quarterback's confidence as well.

If the team turns to Matt Moore, Tannehill can learn on the sidelines while getting limited playing time. Moore performed admirably last season with an 87.1 quarterback rating and a 16-9 touchdown to interception ratio.

Either way, it does not seem like the Dolphins will be competitive in many games this season. At least they can help set up the future by bringing the rookie along slowly.

Tannehill will certainly get other chances to redeem himself. Miami better hope the rest of his career goes more smoothly."

And from ESPN.com:
". It still makes you wonder why Dolphins coach Joe Philbin didn't start veteran Matt Moore until he sorted out what he had at wide receiver. Only nine of Tannehill's 20 completions went to wide receivers. Tannehill continues to have trouble with passes being deflected at the line of scrimmage."

There's a massive world of media outside of this board. In it, you are likely to find that my opinion is not an isolated one. My opinion on Tannehill was that he was a bad pick from the start, had a poor preseason, and his opening game did nothing to change that. Riddle me this- what has he shown you to convince you that he's NOT going to be a bust? Or is this yet another case of you arguing with me simply because it's me? -EK

I read quite a bit of sports related media.

I have yet to see any journalist declare Ryan Tannehill (or any other player ever) to be a failed pick after two quarters of regular-season football.

And as for what Tannehill has shown me to prove that he won't be a bust:  sorry, I'm not in the habit of anointing a player as "failure" or "legend" after one game.  I'm sure that most reasonably sane Colts or Redskins fans would agree.

BS or you're forgetting that there were many people saying he was a failed pick BEFORE he played a game because he's not an NFL ready QB and shouldn't have been a top 10 pick. Nice way to dodge my question though- not one shred of compelling evidence that he was worth his pick, but you'll continue your argument because it's with me. He had a crap preseason when he played against first stringers, won the starting job because one guy was injured and the other was a career back-up who flat stinks, but he's clearly been worth the high draft investment so far. -EK

Offensive Line.  QB needed better protecction.  All rookie QB's are going to have their three INT games this year, RGIII and Luck included.  Let's not over analyse week #1.

Just to set the record straight for me (not like it matters), I would give him the SOTG but I still think he's the QB of the forseeable future and I want to see him play the entire year.

Again, there's a huge difference between:

"I think Tannehill was picked too high" or "Tannehill is a project QB that will need time to get up to speed in the NFL"

vs.

 "Tannehill is not an NFL-caliber QB"

Well, yes... if you continue to say stupid things, I will refute them.  I mean, if you want "compelling evidence" that Tannehill was worth his pick, I suppose I'd say the same thing I said the day he was drafted (http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php?topic=20036.msg258196#msg258196):


But let's keep one thing clear: I will not evaluate the success or failure of Tannehill as a draft pick after one game.  You are the only one engaging in that absurdity.

Apparently I'm not. I listed at least two other national writers who have done the same. Or do you discount any information that doesn't fit your bias? You are aware, too, that one of the knocks on him coming out of college was that he consistently gets balls tipped and batted at the line, right? People who knew his play in college pointed this out- 8 INTs of tips and bats lasts year- which is one of many reasons why he's not an NFL quality QB. What's it going to say for him when he's benched a month in? Will the coaches be wrong then too in their evaluation just because they will have disagreed with you that it's too soon to evaluate his performance? -EK

Why not?  I am ready to declare that Drew Brees is washed up and ought retire based on solely on the fact he had a lower completion rate than Tannehill this week.  ;)

Tannehill week one total QB rating: 3.1. The only starter in the entire league worse than him was Weeden, and at least HIS team kept it close. 3.1... And people have the audacity to go SOTG on anyone else? Wtf? -EK

No, you did not.

The first writer you cited (Rob Goldberg) said, "If the team turns to Matt Moore, Tannehill can learn on the sidelines while getting limited playing time."  The second writer (John Clayton) said, "It still makes you wonder why Dolphins coach Joe Philbin didn't start veteran Matt Moore until he sorted out what he had at wide receiver."

Both of those statements (which strongly imply that Tannehill should be given the nod at starter, just not right now) are light-years removed from your claims that Tannehill is a failed pick and should not have been selected by the Dolphins.

Your personal bias (along with wishful thinking?) is twisting the reasonable statements of others into crazy knee-jerk reactionary moves.  When other posters say, "Tannehill had a horrible game" or columnists say, "Tannehill is starting much sooner than he should be," that is not remotely the same thing as saying "Tannehill is a bust and should never have been drafted."

Reading comprehension matters.

For these reasons, many believed the Dolphins selected the youngster with the No. 8 overall pick of the draft as more of a project. He had talent, but he was too raw to play early in his rookie year  if at all.

Reading comprehension matters. "If at all" indicates he likely has no business playing "at all." See that? As usual skip the parts that don't back your POV. By the way, NFL.com already has him as the first QB to get benched this year- likely after week 2:
"Here's my take on the first three benchings of 2012:

1. Ryan Tannehill , Miami Dolphins (benched after Week 2): Here's a team doing everything it said it wouldn't. I understand that Matt Moore isn't a beautiful fit for Mike Sherman's offense, but he's the smart fit."
http://m.nfl.com/news/0ap1000000057971/
He's likely going to be pulled for Matt Moore and you don't see that as problematic? The tipped ball issue was a problem last year at A&M and he's not improved at all and you don't see that as a problem? Bet if it was, say, Tebow with these numbers you'd kill the guy. I don't think even Tebow ever had a 3.1 total QBR!!
Lol, yeah the whooooole world agrees that you can't make an assessment off of one game. This guys gives him TWO before he's benched. Total QB rating of 3.1, but you keep supporting him. -EK

The three turnovers by Tannehill gets my vote.

By the way Marshall looked great yesterday.....I'm thinking he will all season being as he was by far our most talented receiver even if he did drop passes he is still far better then the talentless shit we have now!!!!!

Are you really this horrible at reading comprehension?  I tried to help you by bolding some key words above.

If Goldberg was questioning whether Tannehill should ever be allowed to play in the NFL, why did he later recommend switching to Moore so Tannehill can "learn on the sidelines?"  Why would he advise them to "help set up the future by bringing the rookie along slowly" if he believes, as you do, that Tannehill is a failed pick?

For native English speakers, Goldberg's meaning is obvious: Tannehill is too raw to play early in THIS SEASON, if at all THIS SEASON.  If only your troubles were simply the result of a language barrier... but alas, they are not.

Does it have him as the first QB to be cut?
No?
Then your point escapes me.

Why do you make it so easy?  Let's see, we have to go all the way back to... the last regular-season game Tebow started. (link (http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/year/2011/type/player-week/week/17))

2011 Week 17, win and you're in, DEN at home against the mighty 6-9 Chiefs:

Tim Tebow posts an impressive QBR of 2.1.

To recap:  Ryan Tannehill plays the first game of his NFL career on the road in Week 1 against a top-tier opponent with the #2 passing defense in the league last year, and posts a 3.1 QBR.  This means he is an unmitigated bust.

Tim Tebow can guarantee a division title in Week 17 by winning at home against the last-place Chiefs, and he posts a monster QBR of 2.1.  He's still awesome, though.

The radio guys said yesterday that national media would look at the stats and kill us yet they felt we played well for almost 70% of the game. It isn't like we don't know this. Most national guys make a living giving opinions based on stats and we all know that stats are both manipulative and deceiving.

Also wanted to say all of his batted balls are on three step drops. Do you know why we are doing three step drops? Beacause our O-line can't block and our receivers can't get open. Who's fault is it that our oline can't block and our receivers can't get open?

That's fine if you want to blame the Oline. Explain to me why it was such an issue for Tannehill at A&M before he ever became a Dolphin and why it didn't seem to plague other Miami QBs in the preseason like it did Tannehill so I can blame the Oline too! I'll be awaiting an explanation from anyone who can reconcile this, so I can be a good little fan and not question Tannehill any longer. Someone explain it to me so I won't bash the first first round QB taken since Marino (which apparently means no matter how bad he sucks, he's untouchable by fan criticism) any more and I can go quietly about my business of being happy they wasted a first round pick on this guy in silence.

And Spider, you make it too freaking easy! I knew as soon as I said Tebow's name you'd be hot on Google because a) you have nothing better to do than spend your entire day trying to start internet arguments, and b) irrespective of which QB actually had a worse rating, I knew you couldn't pass up the chance to jump on Tebow's shit AGAIN. So tell me- since you pointed out how bad Tebow sucked after his first start (or was it his first few? Because that's splitting hairs and makes ZERO difference), is Tannehill, with a TQBR of a whopping 1 point more really immune to the same scrutiny? Aren't you always asking for consistency when people debate you? Where's yours? Tebow's 2.1 or Tannehill's 3.1- they both suck, and you had no issue lambasting Tebow from the get go, so why not the same approach with an equally awful Tannehill? Oh...right...cause then you couldn't argue with me. -EK

I don't think anyone thinks it's not an issue, we just don't think it's ONLY Tannehill's issue. The offensive line believes they were partly to blame. The coaches think they were partly to blame. The recievers think they were partly to blame. Tannehill thinks he's was partly to blame. There's PLENTY of blame to go around and then there's the fact that Houston is possibly the best in the league at batting down balls and it's just that most of us don't see why you're insisting it's ALL on Tannehill. That's it in a nutshell. You are certainly welcome to your opinion, but it flies in the face of common thinking when it comes to batted balls. Batted balls aren't SOLELY the responsibility of the QB. Now if Tannehill was say 5-10 and throwing sidearm, THEN you might have a valid argument that it could be an issue for him, but he's 6-4 and has a high release, so there's nothing to suggest that this isn't just a minor issue mostly to do with him locking onto receivers. He's a rookie. Rookies do that. Even the BEST ones. So to suggest that it means he's not ready to play in the NFL just appears to be sour grapes on your part that Miami took him in the first place rather than based on sound judgement. Mr best pure QB to come out of college in a decade had 3 INT's as well and they WEREN'T on batted balls. Does that mean that Luck is a bust too?

What part of the following is lost on you:
*Tannehill had multiple passes tipped/batted for INTs his senior year; over half his INTs came from tipped or batted balls.
*no other Dolphin had tipped/batted ball issues in the preseason when Tannehill had four in ONE HALF against Carolina
*he had three more tipped for INTs Sunday, and 2 additional ones batted away

The ONLY common thread between these three things is Tannehill. He didn't have Miami's offensive line or receivers in college so stop already with "the line is to blame." BS! It was a problem before he was a Phin. Moore completely sucks but he didn't have this problem, so what- the line and receivers all conspired to make Tannehill look bad and get passes tipped but didn't do it for other QBs? The only people with sour grapes here are the ones who are having to come to realize what I said before he was drafted- BAD IDEA! Now that he is showing why he's a bad idea, it sucks to have gotten all giddy for him. Well I pointed out all  the tips in the preseason and was told "oh it's preseason, it doesn't count and it doesn't matter." Bullshit it doesn't matter when the guy is still doing it- and he's the ONLY Miami QB doing it. -EK

^^There's no point in us debating this EK, because the fact is that you're right for this week. If it continues to be a problem for Tannehill for his career then you'll be right about that too, but I'm not willing to conceed that just yet. I'd like to see him play a few more games and see if he's able to overcome it. I think it's a highly correctable problem that will be sorted out in time. You may be right that he won't ever correct it, but I think that's being awfully sure about something without a whole lot of evidence to back it up. You were awfully damn sure that Ocho Cinco would be the best WR the Dolphins had this year too and you were wrong about that. You could be wrong about this.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Are you saying that you say false stuff on purpose, or that you just don't care whether the things you say are true or not?

You know, you could have saved both of us time by making the tiniest effort to check your facts before you mash on the keyboard and click Post.

Wait a minute... there is "ZERO difference" between Tannehill's first start in Week 1 of his first year in the NFL, and Tebow's 14th start in Week 17 of his second year in the league?  It sounds like you're saying that a quarterback learns absolutely nothing from spending over a full season's worth of games on the sideline learning the pro game.  Please elaborate.

Did I classify Tim Tebow as a bust after 1 half of his first NFL game?
No?
Then I am perfectly happy with my level of consistency, sir.

But while we're on the subject of brazen hypocrites... I'd love to hear why you give Tebow praise as a "top 10" QB while you immediately declare Tannehill an unsalvageable failure after less than one full game.

Already addressed the Tebow thing. If you're too dense to understand that, then that's on you. I also said there's zero difference between "after his first start (or was it his first few?)." It's right there in black and white- no one said anything about Tebow's 14th start. If you can bash Tebow from the get go, why can I not do the same for Tannehill? And just to clarify- this was your quote after Tebow had started two games last year, and people said he sucked:

So that's it huh? Can't judge Tannehill after four quarters, because you looooove him! But since you dislike Tebow, eight quarters is fine. Talk about a hypocrite- how do you not choke on the word? I do say though- Excellent- I'll look for your evaluation after this week's game. Regarding my evaluation of Tannehill being crap "after less than one full game," which you're SOOOO hung up on- news flash: I said he sucked before they drafted him. He's done nothing on the field to change that opinion. I'd only be a hypocrite if I said he sucked coming out of college and now that he's losing games in the pros I started loving him. I've been consistent as gravity about him throughout. -EK

And of course, by "from the get go," you mean "during his second year in the league."  Got it.

Hmmm, where to start....

- the "seven of eight quarters" quote was after the 16 NFL quarters Tebow had already played in the previous season (4 as backup, 12 as starter)
- those "seven of eight quarters" were after Tebow had been in the NFL learning the pro game for over a year and a half

So I'll make you a deal: if, by end of next season, Tannehill finishes with a QBR worse than 30th (as one Mr. Tebow did last year), I will happily concede that he was a bust.  And if he finishes better than that, then you'll have to concede that he was a better QB than Tebow.  Deal?

So, in other words, you made up your mind before he had even taken a snap in the NFL.  Check.

But you're sidestepping the issue.  I have twice explained why I think Tebow sucks but have not yet issued a verdict on Tannehill, while you have yet to explain how you can categorize Tannehill as a bust after less than one game, yet enthusiastically praise the QB who finished 31st in the league in QBR.

I haven't sidestepped anything. Best deal you could offer me is to just quit responding to my posts because no matter what anyone EVER says, you can't be wrong. Let's set the record straight though because you're not wiggling out of this one with another semantics argument.

1. The eight quarters thing was quoted in its entirety and had NOTHING to do with any previous play. Your statement- word for word, and using the words YOU wrote (if you actually MEANT something else, you should have been clearer- that's not my fault): "I'd say seven of eight quarters makes them right, yes." not seven of his last eight, not seven of the quarters he's played this year. You jumped on the bash Tebow bandwagon just like everyone else and now your approach doesn't fit your current argument so you want to backpedal.
2. I don't care what your evaluation of Tannehill is at the end of next season. He was drafted MUCH higher than Tebow because the expectations are different. No one expected Tebow to surplant Orton when he was drafted. People laughed at the pick. Tannehill is supposed to be the QB that finally turns Miami around. So far EVERYTHING he's shown is that he's Henne V. 2.0. Poor decisons, turns the ball over, stares down his receivers, can't get in the end zone. He should be held to the same standards Henne was held to when everyone said he sucked. This crap about "he's just a poor little rookie," is negated by the fact that he was taken 8th overall, indicating his perceived talent should bely his inexperince. If it takes you two years of his bad reads, tipped balls, and no TDs to figure out that's a bust, mayb football isn't really your thing. Perhaps checkers is more your speed.
3. Did I make up my mind before he took a snap? Duh! That's what people do with college prospects- every person here probably did the same thing when Ted Ginn was taken. They said, "well tha was dumb. Waste of a pick. He sucks." Same was said about Pat White. Tannehill suddenly shot up the draft boards a month before the draft without taking a snap. I have no idea what that was about, but the tapes of him I watched didn't change. He was an average at best college QB with a tipped ball issue that I have been railing on for months. Saying it makes no sense to judge him before he played is assanine. The whole draft is built on the idea of evaluating talent BEFORE they take an NFL snap. Afterwards it's not a draft- it's free agency.
4. Last time on the Tebow thing because at this point you're clearly trolling. I've already stated on this forum that in retrospect I was caught up in the whole Tebow mania and I was wrong. Now it doesn't matter how many times you keep bringing it up, the issue has been addressed. Unlike you, I actually can admit when I'm wrong. -EK

The timestamp on that post is October 30, 2011.  Tebow had played 26 quarters (20 as a starter) at that point, and 8 as a starter that season.  Can you please inform me which 8 quarters you have arbitrarily decided that I was referring to?  Was it the first eight quarters that Tebow played, nearly a year before I made that statement?  Was it the first eight quarters he played as a starter in DEN (the same)?

Or, perhaps, was I referring to the eight quarters as a starter for Tebow that season, which just happened to be right before (and technically, during) that post?  Please let me know what you have decided, so I can attempt to explain the thought process you have assigned to me.

I agree.

Henne had over two full seasons (that would be seasons, not quarters) to prove himself.  I am happy to hold Tannehill to that standard.

But here's what they DIDN'T do: log on to the Internet after two quarters of the first game and say, "See, I was proven right!"  Because one half of the first game doesn't tell you a damned thing!

If Ryan Tannehill had passed for two TDs and no INTs in the first half, would you have logged on at halftime and posted that he was obviously worth the pick and is clearly the next Marino?  Evaluating a player's career path after two quarters of play is asinine.

...!

At what point between the Miracle Playoff Victory and today did you "admit" that you were wrong about Tebow?  I am rather shocked to hear of this development, because it seems like instead of repeatedly defending Tebow over and over (as you just did in your last post!), you would just say, "I have already conceded that Tebow sucks" and be done with it.