The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Through all this talk about career days for Hartline, Wake, Bess and Tannehill everybody seems to be forgetting about the Defense. Miami's tough against the run, but against the pass they are Father freaking Christmas. All the have to do is hold Arizona on 3rd and 18, they win the game.

You wanna talk about positions to upgrade, I think Defensive Coordinator is high on the list.

I don't think you need to replace the DC on a team that is leading the league in run defense.

Ireland traded away his best CB in preseason.  Coyle is making chicken salad.

...and the two fourth down conversions. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v693/lordthundergod/eusa_doh.gif)

This defense has taken to the 4-3 like a fish to water. And all the reports are the players just LOVE Coyle! He keeps the meetings light. He was running sprints with them after practice (during camp). Not surprising they have adjusted so well to the 4-3 so well since last year they were in a 4-3 over 50% of the time anyway. Coyle NOT dropping Wake into coverage at all (unlike Nolan) helps. Jones playing much better at safety has helped as well.

This team is weak at CB. If they kept Vontae it would have been weak anyway so that trade didn't really hurt anything. It is an area that needs to be addressed going forward.

Coyle is not the problem.

Blaming Coyle is a cop out.  Dumb.

I will dispute until the end of this season that Vontae was the best corner on this team.  Absolutely false.  Vontae was the most overrated corner on this team.

Corner is the team's biggest weakness and needs to be addressed.  But we have to hope Marshall improves until the draft, most likely.  If Sean Smith gets hurt, we're completely F'ed.

My 2 cents..

1. Coyle is not the problem and an organization cannot continue to change out key personnel (like coaches) every year (in this case 4 games) and expect stability or success.

2. The pass defense sucked before Coyle got here. If anything, at least they have a few picks.

3. No one on this forum was more disappointed in VD than me, but he was not the best CB. He continues to get schooled and Philbin has made it clear that attitude plays a big role.

 

Debatable point spoken as fact. I don't think Davis had done anything this offseason to be considered the best on the team currently. I'm not sure but I'm hearing that he isn't doing so well in his new home either.

We may never know the entire story, but I read that VD was having a terrible camp and had an issue with going to the bathroom too often for JP's taste. I will admit, I thought it was pretty "ballsy" move considering how weak and thin the CB position was / is.

I'd rather have the 2nd round pick than watch Vontae getting beat.  We have lots of other guys that can get beat in coverage.  At least now we have a 2nd round pick as well.

So far...

1 1st
2 2nds
2 3rds
1 4th
1 5th
1 6th
1 7th

9 picks. Did I miss anything. 

"Tom Brady is the best quarterback in the AFC East" is also a debatable point spoken as fact, as (like any evaluation of which player is "better") it is purely opinion.

Do you have any sort of basis for claiming that Sean Smith (or anyone else on the roster) was a better CB than Davis at the point Davis was traded?  Meaningless preseason games are meaningless; remember, right after they were drafted, Smith outplayed Davis in training camp and preseason, only to wind up getting benched due to his play in games that counted.

I suppose you can also use this logic to claim that Miami traded their second-best receiver to the Bears?  Or, continuing that logic, that Miami traded two second-round picks for DEN's second-best receiver?

It was also a lot easier to sit around in 2006 and say, "I'm glad we got that 2nd rounder for Surtain" than it was before he was traded.  Same goes for when Chris Chambers was traded.

Of course, sometimes you wind up with the Wes Welker end of that deal, and then everyone bitches incessantly about how stupid the Dolphins were for letting him go.

Seriously man?  There are some player evaluations that are opinion and others that are not. 

Who is better Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers? - debatable.

Who is better Peyton Manning or Mark Sanchez? - not debatable. 

Marshall is in his 7th year. Is it honestly realistic to expect improvement from him?


This. He might just be the hardest player on the whole roster to replace in the short term.

Don't know how you can call me dumb when the guy's Defense lets the opposition convert a 3rd & 18 and 2 4th Downs when you're up by 7 with less than 2 minutes in the game.

Stats are great, but with the game on the line this D can't hold anybody. Mark Sanchez and Santonio (give me the ball or I want to go) Holmes. Kevin Kolb and Andre Roberts. Prior to playing the Fins these guys were universally regarded amont the worst in the NFL. Don't think Sanchez and Kolb are even owned in most Fantasy Leagues.

I'm not saying we should dump him now, but after watching his D choke in 2 losses in a row I don't understand how you can say his job's not on the table.

One big reason Miami's leading League in Run D is they are Father Christimas vs. the Pass. And I love hearing about how Coyle keeps the meetings "light" and the players love him. Guess the D's really responded to that. Must be why Fins are 1-3.

Obviously Vontae Davis was a disappointment, but at least he had some ability. You want to trade him, I don't dispute we got decent value in return, but now you're 30th in the NFL vs The Pass and it just cost you 2 games in a row.

And I'm dumb?

And I reiterate -- Jeff Ireland with Draft Picks is like Stevie Wonder at the Free Throw Line.

I was happy that they got rid of Vontae as he was such a pain in the ass that he wasn't worth the trouble.  So I'm still happy with that move.  But the secondary is pretty weak for this team.  With the DL putting pretty good pressure on the opposing QB most of the time, this should make things easier for the Fins secondary.  But I'm still seeing a lot of burnage on plays. 

Count me as a lover of the 4-3.  I have never liked the 3-4 (unless you have an outstanding front 3,  and a great linebacker corps which is equally adept at coverage and pressuring the QB). 

It's Week 5 of his first year. He doesn't have the players!!  Saying his job should be on the table or he is in trouble is foolish.

I think we are all frustrated because we have been waiting for so long, but getting rid of the DC is not the answer. I look for the Fins to address the secondary very heavily in FA and the next draft. If the secondary is not improved this time next year, there will be reason for concern.

First I'm dumb. Then I'm foolish. Mike, you've been rooting for a loser so long I guess you're starting to like it.

That's it. Kevin Coyle is a "loser"   ::)

He is 1-3, and his Defense has given away 2 games late to Mark Sanchez and Santonio Holmes, then Kevin Kolb and Andre Roberts

Let me see, so for I've seen on these forums...

1) 3 losses are on Tannehill for his turnovers.
2) 2 of the losses are on the defense.
3) 2 of the losses are on the kicker.

If my math is right, Miami should be 1-7. Don't see how the above is possible and Miami is 1-3. My guess is that none of the losses are on 1 person or even just the offense, defense or special teams. It's a team sport guys. They win and lose games as a team.

Yep. It's all Kevin Coyle's fault the team is 1-3. Nobody else has any say in our record. Coyle is the one who drafted Jimmy Wilson, Nolan Carroll, Chris Clemons, Rashed Jones, and Sean Smith. Kevin Coyle is the reason Vontae Davis is a lazy piece of crap who doesn't take being an NFL player seriously and is worthless on the field. It's all Kevin Coyle's fault  ::) Kevin Coyle is the one who had Miami in salary cap hell this year where they couldn't bring in any quality free agents. Yep, Blame Coyle! That's it! He is the reason this team is 1-3

You have to be F'n kidding me?!?

Sadly, it looks like he's serious. Looks like another poster I'll ignore. :)

Every once in awhile I have to remind myself that not everyone that posts to this forum are Dolphin fans and very few are as upfront about it as Hoodie. lol

I have been on forums where there were vicious arguments on if the poster was a fan or not. Usually you can tell the difference between someone that is inherently negative and a non fan. 

Unfortunately there are a couple people here that are non-fan's posing as fans. It's sad!

I think the Kevin Coyle bashing and his job is on the line talk will go away now though.

It doesn't matter to me if you're a fan of the team or not. It's silly stuff like calling for Coyle to be removed after 5 games that makes me not really want to listen to anything else someone says.  ;D

Exactly!

I think what MikeO is pointing out is that just because someone frequents these forums, that doesn't make them Dolphins fans and they *might* have alterior motives when posting. It's been known to happen.  >:D

Pappy knows me too well after all of these years  ;D

Excellent point. I remember reading that "when someone can get you upset or make you mad, they own you". Makes a lot of sense.

There will always be those that want to fire Ireland, Coyle, Sherman, Ross, the water boy..... I try and support them through thick and thin and believe everyone deserves a fair shot to suceed and 5 games is not enough (IMO).

Fans are too eager to fire everyone.  One bad play - fire him now!

Its sickening and disgusting how a fan base has grown so bitter, and thinks that firing everyone is the way to improve anything.  It just makes your organization look like a revolving door, and makes everything worse.

It has only gotten worse over the years. Fans wanting to fly banners over the stadiums to get people fired. Fans picketing outside the stadium when a decision they might not agree with happens. You have fans boo'ing draft picks and saying they suck on draft night before they even play a game or a snap. Nobody can be level headed and take a wait and see approach on anything.

^^ it irks me to no end.  Fans need to realize what's reality.

Put me on the "I want Ireland gone" bandwagon. That said, there's nothing wrong with criticizing your favorite team (or someone running it) when it's year after year of mediocre/bad management. Just because some people don't support every little decision made doesn't make them less of a fan. Do I still cheer for them? Absolutely. I agree, some fans are unreasonable, but most are just frustrated, that's all.

You just made a great point. Criticizing is one thing and that is totally fair. Especially by people who pay PSL's and for season tickets or just regular game tickets a few times a year. But, being unreasonable to the point of being a jerk or just sounding like a lunatic where you want this guy fired, that guy fired, trade this bum, trade that bum is another thing. Especially when in certain circumstances these people need to be given some reasonable amount of time to either sink or swim.

Agree. No doubt it raises questions about credibility.

I feel that Ireland has had a reasonable amount of time.

Nobody said otherwise. But problem is Ireland's team is trending upwards right now. Pioli's is trending down

Other than the quarterback, number one receiver and right tackle, this is the same team that Sparano had on the field last year.  It's the coaching.

I agree. But some of the young guys are developing and while some of it is coaching also some if it is just time as well. Jones, Smith, Pouncey, Misi, Jerry. Not everyone walks into the NFL and is a superstar from day 1. It takes some time for most players. So whether we hired Philbin or someone else I am guessing some of these young players that Ireland brought in would have improved regardless just because they have been getting more experience in the league.

Still doesn't excuse Ireland for the free agent mistakes or Vontae Davis draft miss in Rd 1 and other draft misses. But he should get credit for the hits.

That is the real issue and it is broken into 2 different thoughts.

Camp 1 says he has had 4-5 yrs. (whatever it is) and that is plenty of time. Yet, the team is still under 500.

Camp 2 says Parcells ran the show when he was here and JI was only a puppet happy to get the job. Once Parcells left, that is really when the clock started for Ireland.

So, it depends on which you believe. Considering Parcells has ran the show and made every decision everywhere he has bee in the last 12 yrs., I am in camp 2.

That said, if the team does not continue to improve, he will and should be gone. One could make a case that Ireland's future depends on a guy who wears #17. With all the drafts JI has accumulated, the 2013 draft and FA period will be critical, as well signing our own FA.

IT AIN'T AN EASY JOB.   

Camp 2 as well. I think Parcells made all the big decisions when he was here and left Jeft the crumbs and let him make picks in rounds 5,6,7 and such. And let Jeff handle the paper work and the small stuff. The big decisions were all Parcells. No doubt about it