The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

If you hate Omar or are drunk on the RT juice, maybe skip this one. I think it makes some fair and vaild points, especially given how many "Such and such is so high on RT" threads as have been started.



"I don't hate Ryan Tannehill. In fact, I like the Dolphins quarterback a lot, and advocated for the Miami to select him back in January when most said he wasn't good enough, or proven enough.

I wanted him slow cooked, but he's in the microwave now and I'm willing to accept the finished product.

Some claim I'm too harsh on the rookie quarterback, but truth is I'm critical of ALL quarterbacks (except Joe Flacco), and I don't understand why Dolphins fans want to lower the bar of expectations.

Has Ryan Tannehill shown promise? Absolutely!

Has he played good as an NFL starting quarterbacks? Not even close!

His turnovers have led to three losses this season, and yes I'm counting the New York Jets game because without the pick-six there wouldn't have been an overtime game in my opinion.

His accuracy (55.9) is below the NFL norm, and that's supposed to be his strength.

And Tannehill's 66.4 quarterback rating has him ranked 31st in the NFL. A rating in the 80's is the bar for above average QB play.

If Chad Henne produced Tannehill's numbers he'd have been run out of town, no matter how he looked in the game.

Don't change your standards, and water down your expectations because of his pedigree and draft status.

Cincinnati quarterback Andy Dalton, who was selected in the second round, produced a solid rookie season and led his team to the playoffs.

In his second season as the Bengals starter he's completing 67.5 percent of his passes, throwing for 1111 yards and eight touchdowns (four interceptions). Dalton has a 103.0 quarterback rating after four games.

That's GOOD quarterback play!

Right now, as promising as Tannehill appears, he's below average by NFL standards.

I look up his numbers in every category each week and share them with you.

He's got poise, he's got a good arm. He's fairly mobile. He's hard to rattle so far. He possesses plenty of promise and upside. But he hasn't been GOOD yet.

Good leads to wins. Good protects the football. Good puts an opponent away to finish off a game.

Wait for GOOD before anointing him your savior.

Just to avoid all the confusion THIS LINK sends you to my discussion with WQAM host Dan Sileo, where I explain my EXACT feelings on Tannehill, and why I'm not willing to crown him - unlike Sun-Sentinel columnist Dave Hyde - after one solid game that didn't produce a victory.

We had this same issue when everyone wanted to anoint Henne as the savior after every good game - Jets, Oakland - he played.

My point. Look for progress. But slow down, and wait for a larger sample size and a couple of kills."




This summarizes many of my issues with RT. Yes, a lot of people were high on him heading into the draft. On the other hand, SI and Mel Kiper had him as the most overrated player on the boards. I also think the comparisons to Henne from a fan's POV are pretty fair.

Some things that people noted about Henne within weeks of him accounting for 475 yards in one game:



Why are the standards different for RT? The line of thought that, "he's a rookie, so he's not going to be perfect," makes no sense to me. If he's not ready to win games, sit him until he is. Moore may not have been any better than 1-3, but he likely wouldn't have been worse.

"Good leads to wins. Good protects the football. Good puts an opponent away to finish off a game." -EK

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-10-03/sports/sfl-dont-twist-my-words-on-ryan-tannehill-20121003_1_ryan-tannehill-henne-nfl-norm

I prefer the words of Armando as to why he is a good QB in his rookie season ....

Since when was it Ryan Tannehill against the Texans, Jets and Cardinals? I could have sworn that it was the Miami Dolphins versus those teams. I saw a lot of guys out there playing against those teams and I could have sworn that I have seen a few negative plays by guys without the number 17 on their back. It's nice that you have all 3 losses on RT's shoulders, but you're wrong. Plain and simple you are wrong. That's not my opinion, that's a fact. The fact of the matter is that RT is not 1-3, the Miami Dolphins are 1-3 and there's plenty of blame to be handed out. Certainly the QB has to shoulder a little more of the blame then some other guys for a loss but even that only goes so far because RT hasn't stepped on the field for a single defensive or special teams snap and those parts of the game are easily as much responsible for the outcome of a game as the offense is. So if you want to say that Miami is 1-3 with RT at QB, that's fine, but to say that RT is solely responsible for the 3 losses is laughable.

When your words more acurately reflect reality then I won't disagree with them.

Pappy, you do realize I didn't write the article, yes? -EK

No, I was not aware.  I didn't see the link at the bottom till just now. Just assume I'm talking to Omar. :)

That's why there's an "Omar disclaimer" at the top and a link at the bottom. -EK

Sorry, i missed the Omar reference at the top and link at the bottom. My comments still stand. Omar is wrong. Not wrong about not annointing RT the franchise, I agree whole heartedly with that stance, but he's wrong that the 3 losses can be attributed directly to Tannehill's turnovers. That's bunk.

^^^
That's my mentality when people talk about certain players and how many championships "they've" won (any sport).

That being said, I kinda agree with Omar on two things: RT17's turnovers killed us (mainly the Cardinals game) because they were late in the game. And that I'm going to wait on anointing him our savior until after about a year maybe a year and a half. I like the guy, and he looks like he can develop into something good, but he aint no worldbeater just yet.

I don't agree on the slow cooked crap. I've always been for playing guys right from the start. Iron out all the wrinkles now, instead of LATER, in hopes for a decent 3rd year.

Perception is reality.

Henne had already been deemed as "trash" by the fans and the media, so no matter what he did, his performance was just that - trash.

Tannehill is in the "I hope he is the next Marino" status right now, so people will praise him until they see what is happenning.  Heaven forbid Tannehill has a few games where pick-6's lose the game for the Dolphins.  Then see how fast the fans turn on him.

Personally, its nice to see the fan community rally around a guy for once, instead of publicly focusing on all the things he sucks at, and how terrible he is.  It has been like that since Fielder.  Name one QB of the past 16 starters that got support from the fans.  I'll wait...

From Fielder, to Griese, Pennington, Green, Frerotte, Henne, Thigpen...  All of them got lambasted by the fans.  Matt Moore got a little praise for how he finished the season last year, but that ended the minute the Dolphins announced the #8 pick in April.

None of it means anything until the national media has something to say.  And we're starting to see that a bit after the last game.   We'll have to see if it continues and, just maybe, Tannehill will be the real deal.

Sadly, just like my opinion of Tebow, there's nothing RT can do to make EK like him.  He's going to be a Tannehill hater forever.

And I agree that the 2 late turnovers in that game killed us, but to simply call them "RT's" turnovers is not fair. These were not turnovers of the variety like Naanee's where he tried to run with the ball and it fell out of his hands. No, both of those turnovers occurred when RT was being hit, once from behind and was stripped of the ball and other time while he's trying to throw downfield and he couldn't follow through on his pass.  Both of them occurred on plays where the person who hit RT was blitzing and was not picked up properly by the blockers, so to ignore these facts is not being honest about the turnovers. Certainly RT has to take some of the blame on both of them, but the blockers have to take some of the blame as well and give a little credit to the defense for causing the turnover's too. It's not like the Cardinals just suck on D, they are a very fast defense that causes problems and they did it again on Sunday when the game was on the line.

So I have no problem with saying don't annoint RT anything just yet, but at the same time blaming him solely for those 2 turnovers and therefore the loss is ignoring so many factors that it borders on ridiculous. If the defense make's a stop on 4th and 10 from inside the 20, does that make Tannehill's 80 yard bomb to Hartline then the sole reason they WON the game? I think not, but if it does then doesn't that therefore mean that whomever was supposed to cover Roberts on that 4th down play the SOLE reason for the loss? It's just absurd to think in those terms when the game is played over the course of 3 hours, not in the space of 6 seconds or so it takes for 1 play.

I don't hate RT, I just don't think he's a very good NFL QB. There's a big difference- I would never wish for misfortune to befall him like many people here keep hoping happens to Tebow. I would also take exception to the fans "lambasting" Pennington. I seem to recall quite a few fans absolutely loving the guy when he got MVP votes in '08 and the team went 11-5. In fact, I can't seem to recall anyone disliking him that year.  -EK

THAT YEAR, No.

The following year, when everyone was demolishing him because he's made of glass and can't throw the ball more than 4 yards....  ABSOLUTELY. 

Results drive opinion.  People will love him when they're winning.  Before 2008, people said "Pennington, really?  His arm is about to fall off."   During 2008, it changed to "yay Pennington!"  After 2008, it was more like "that guy should retire cause he's too fragile."

Well if results drive opinion, why is there- nearly every day anymore- a thread about how some former QB or writer or talking head is so high on RT, yet when I point out that he's been a turnover machine and stares down his recievers and gives up a lead (all things he did in college and is not getting better at) I'm suddenly completely wrong and out of my mind? Why is everyone HERE so high on him? Results drive opinion. 1-3 are his current results. That's my point. He may not always stink, but stop sugar-coating it- he's not very good right now. -EK

Because its more than record for him.  you're evaluating a young player on his ability and growth and looking for signs of hope and promise.  Yes, he's 1-3, but could easily be 3-1 if a kicker makes 2 of 3 FG's or if a corner could stop someone on 3rd and long. 

Point is, he's shown promise and hope, and record aside, there's something to be said for that.  Mitigate your expectations, he's not Tom Brady.  He's a kid, who's learning.  All you want to see is hope, whether you recognize it or not.

Out of curiosity, aside from not wanting to draft him because Mel Kiper said he's overrated, what's your beef with Tannehill?  Please cite concrete examples.

EK, You are comparing Chad Henne YEAR 4 to Tannehll GAME 4!   Really? REALLY! Really?! This is where ya lose people with any credibility and nobody takes these rants seriously anymore.

Henne was no good and we have years of stats to back that up, actual hard evidence! There is a track record of Henne failing (and is continuing to prove he is no good by not being able to beat out Blaine Gabbert).  You proclaimed Tannehill a bust after 2 quarters, check that, you said he was a BUST before he even played a game and are proud of it. Which is downright foolish on every level. You can't be a BUST until you play and prove you are a BUST! Before anyone steps onto an NFL field for the very first time they could be a superstar, a good player, a marginal/bad player, or a bust. You don't know until they PROVE IT!  Proclaiming a player a BUST before they even play 1 real snap in 1 real game beyond foolish and downright laughable.  

Essentially by sticking to this stance you are alone on that "Tannehill is a Bust" you are saying you don't allow a rookie QB to make any mistakes. You expect a rookie QB to come in day 1 and be the same as a guy with 10 years experience and their mistakes should be judged equally. Which is silly. Peyton Manning made a ton of rookie mistakes his first year. How did you know he wasn't a BUST before he ever stepped on the field? Year 1 Peyton threw 28 INT's. Would you have called him a BUST after his 1st season? Because he sucked year 1! I mean he really sucked! Re-watch the games and the tape, he was a turnover machine.  Aikman's rookie year was 9 TD's to 18 INT's. Hell, even Luck threw 3 INT's week 1, that make him a bust? By you're unreasonable standards all of these guys would have been busts by halftime of their Week 1 games! It makes no sense.

And don't say you don't "HATE TANNEHILL"....you clearly do. Or else you would have budged off this outlandish stance you are grasping too, and at the very least.....at the very least say maybe I was wrong let's see how it plays out over the coming weeks. But you won't even do that? You stick to the..."he is a bust and I don't think he is any good." And you are claiming you would rather have Matt Moore at QB? BASED ON WHAT? He is a career back-up who can't win a starting job on bad teams (ie Carolina and Miami).  You hate Tanny so much that you started another thread just to bring up again how much you dislike him and his play.  It is OK to hate Tannehill, you are entitled to, just man up and admit it!

By the way, nobody is anointing Tannehill or claiming he is the second coming of elite NFL QB's. NOBODY! You can't find one post of anyone saying such here or anyone in the media saying such. But jesus christ let the guy play more than a few games or at the very least a season before he is labeled a BUST or you proclaim that he sucks and is no good and never will be any good!

He could also be 3-1 if he didn't give the ball to the opposition against the Jets and Cards. He's just as much to blame for that as Carpenter. If he doesn't turn the ball over, your kicker isn't placed in a position to win the game. There's no way around that.

How many examples do you want? He had a MASSIVE tipped ball problem in college- something like 70% of his INTs his senior year were on tips. He chokes in the second half and always has; A&M blew halftime leads Oklahoma State (up 20-3, lost 30-29) as Tannehill threw three second-half interceptions, including one in the closing minutes. Next week, they blew an 18-point halftime lead to Arkansas, scoring just three points in the second half in a 42-38 loss. Tannehill got the ball back with over two minutes left, and went four-and-out. They blew an 11-point halftime lead to Missouri, scoring just three points in the second half (and none in overtime) in a 38-31 loss. Against Kansas State, they led 31-21 with 6:28 left but couldn’t hold on. Why? Tannehill went three-and-out and stalled at midfield in his final two possessions of regulation. Sound familiar? Sounds to me like what he's doing in Miami. For his senior year, in fact, RT had 19 TDs and 6 INTs in the first half, but just 10 TDs and 9 INTs after that. He was a career 62.5% completion guy in college, and that stat tends to go DOWN, not up in the pros. Not surprisingly, he's at 55.9% now, good for 27th in the league. Finally, anything he did with A&M looks even worse considering his replacement just went off for 29-of-38 passes, 453 yards, 3 TDs, and no INTs along with 104 rushing yards and one more score on 14 carries. And he's a freshman. Leads me to think Maybe Tannehill was in a great system in college, but he wasn't necessarily so great himself. How's that for starters? -EK

I said I don't. End of discussion. You're not allowed to tell me what I think. Got it? Here's a crazy thought- didn't you say you were no longer going to respond to anything I say? Or were you making that up as you go as well? Love that you keep saying "no one loves/is annointing" the guy when you repeatedly- over and over- start threads about how everybody on the planet is just soooooo impressed by him. Your actions speak volumes above your words. -EK

I don't care about what he did in college.

How many tipped balls after week 1?  Go look it up.  That's called learning and growth.

He got smashed by an unblocked blitzing linebacker while throwing, and you speak like he just handed the ball to the other team.  Tom Brady or Matt Ryan would have had the EXACT same result in that situation.

Look, you will see what you want to see.  You want evidence that you are right, so you will note down all the bad things he does.

But when he makes a good audible, or looks off a safety, you ignore that.  Because you're biased, and have an agenda.

Try to be objective, although, I know you think you are.  

I said nobody is anointing the guy. I didn't say love. Quote it correctly if  you are going to come out against it!

Exactly. John Elway NEVER went to a bowl game in college. Never went to one. Who the F' cares! It's college. College is college, Pro's is Pro's. What you did in college means nothing to what you will do in the pro's! By EK's standards Elway was trash as he couldn't lead a team to a bowl game

You asked me why I didn't like the pick and why I don't think he's NFL ready. I provided reasons- including what he's doing as a pro- and you dismiss them. Who's not being objective? -EK

Thank you Pappy. He contradicts himself too. In one thread he is ripping the defense/secondary for not holding a lead and blowing the game. And they blew it again. In this thread all the loses are Tannehill's fault and his turnovers are why they are losing. Which is it? Did the secondary "blow it" or did "Tannehill give it away"....you can't say it's JUST THIS ONE thing that led to the loss in one thread. Then say it's JUST THIS ONE THING that led to the loss in another. And have them be 2 different "things." It's flawed logic.

Your post went on and on about how much he sucked at A&M.  Refer to the past 4 weeks as your evidence.

I don't care if you liked the pick 6 months ago.  Fine.  Now he's your QB and will be for the foreseeable future.  So what's the point of discussing what you don't like about him.  I'm plenty objective, and you can find quotes from me on here not wanting Tannehill to start this year.  You can find me posting in a thread called "I don't want Tannehill" (I may have started the thread even).  But I'm not evaluating his college career now that I have pro data to judge by, and I have seen improvement from week 1 to now.  To deny that is downright false.

Isnt EK the same guy who kept defending Tebow when he started, and also ignored how well the rest of the team was playing to give all the credit to the QB. You have the same thing here in reverse.

Bingo! We have a winner!

Stay with me here- you made the claim that Miami could be 3-1 if Carpenter hit those FGs. Conveniently you ignored the fact that they would also be 3-1 if RT didn't give the ball away. I brought up his college stats to specifically show you that he is NOT improving from weel 1 or from a year ago. He still turns the ball over with a lead and leads his team to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. 2 of the 3 losses he's done this in. He only had 1 massive turnover against the Jets in week 3, but he had 3 a week later. How is that improvement? To deny that he was a major factor (not the only one, but a significant one) in both of the past two losses is downright false. -EK

Thank you that made me laugh Great response.......I LOVE IT Go TANNY

Hey everyone I found an ap that works with firefox that gives you a bunch of feeds for games.I watched the jets game in HD I could see numbers and names.It was one of the best feeds I've ever watched. I can't say they will allways be that good because I get most games on tv.But when you need to watch........Plus it has a bunch different feeds. I never payed anything for it but I was able to use the vip section.If you are interested send me a message and I will give the addy. I don't think I can post it on here.What I do is go in to tools aps and activate it before the game then unactivate it after the game.That gets rid of the toolbar that comes with it.

Hey Mike O I thought you were picking on ek awhile back.I am man enough to admit I was wrong and I apologize.

apology accepted! You are a good man!

Henne got plenty of support.  After his first season in '09, any blame for the team missing the playoffs was put on the Division I-A receiving corps MIA was putting on the field.  It wasn't until the collapse at the end of the second season that we started hearing calls to replace him (e.g. draft Mallett).

I challenge you to find anyone (outside of tepop) that was calling to get rid of Henne at the start of the '10 season.  Henne certainly got more support than Fiedler ever did; we were ALWAYS looking over his shoulder after every loss.

Henne's first ever start was a big win on a Monday night vs the Jets where he lead the offense to 3 (yes 3) Fourth Quarter Touchdown drives. Fans were in LOVE with Henne at the beginning. Absolutely in LOVE with him. Why wouldn't they be, his first game he led the team in a win over the Jets and toasted Revis of all people and shut fat Rex up! Then a few weeks later he beat the Jets again in NY. Where once again a late 4th quarter TD drive led by Henne where he connects with Joey Haynos of all people on a TD pass to beat the Jets in New York.

Fans fell out of love with Henne when all of his warts were reveled over time and he clearly wasn't any good. Henne was given a million chances to succeed in Miami, he failed. Because he isn't any good. But it is 100% false to say Fans hated him from the beginning. Fans LOVED Henne from the moment he took over for the injured Pennington! LOVE HIM!

I'm with phinfan too, lol. My bad.

ha ha!

He had to have some talent in order to play the Jets like he did.  That was a very strong defense that he beat that Monday night.  He was poorly coached and picked up some bad habits which he now can't break.

You nailed it Landshark. And when people say Henne was being ripped and not liked from Day 1, it's a lie. That is a flat out lie. He was loved from Day 1. Everyone loved the fact we had Pennington and were grooming Henne under him because Pennington was so smart and Henne was learning from the prefect guy. Then when Henne got to finally start everyone thought he was the answer because his early games showed a ton of promise. Fans jumped off the bandwagon when he began to play poorly and get worse over time. Henne regressed over time.

And comparing results of Ryan Tannehill with 4 NFL career starts to Chad Henne who came in the league in 2008 and has over 30 career NFL starts is beyond foolish. We know what Henne is, we have a substantial sample size to go off of. With Tannehill we have 4 games hardly enough to make an equal comparison at this point in time. And anyone who does is lost on this issue. It falls back to people in the low football IQ category.

Henne will have a job in the NFL for many years as a quality #2 backup QB. Maybe come in and start for a couple games if a starter gets banged up a bit. But that's it. He is on par with Matt Moore, Jesse Campbell and those types of QB. Nice back-up's who won't kill ya if forced into action for a short amount of time. But that is their ceiling.

Okay to clarify... I never said they were all hated from the beginning, but they were all hated by the end of their tenure in Miami which eventually led to their dismissal from the team.  Go back and read my post if you want. No one once compared Henne to Tannehill.

 Secondly, I understand now why EK hates Tannehill. And it makes sense.  Just like he loves Tebow because he somehow magically "finds a way to win" even though he sucks, he hates Tannehill because he magically is "finding ways to lose." Both of these statements completely disregard surrounding circumstances and are invalid in my opinion.  It's equivalent to watching nothing but the ESPN crawl to decide on who is good and who sucks.

Yes, Tannehill may have "given the ball away" in the Arizona game, but if you watch both of those play (as stated earlier), they were both great plays by the defense.  I give him a free pass for those plays, as they would have the same affect on the greatest qbs in league history as they did on RT.
 
You, however, choose your hatred to dictate a different opinion.

Just want to be on your page...

I hear ya Brian. My last post wasn't in direct response to you but a few people and few points brought up in this thread. And of course they (specifically Henne) were hated at the end of their time here. They were all proven failures (Henne, Sparano, Henning...etc) and were just flat out bad! But in the beginning there was no hate towards them.

I also never said you compared Henne to Tannehill. Someone else did though. Someone else did. And the Tebow-Tannehill comparison and EK's logic that you are trying to connect doesn't make sense though since he proclaimed Tannehill a BUST before he even played game. So before Tannehill "lost a game" EK already had him as a Bust and no good and he never will be any good. He will spew the hate all year no matter what the stats are and no matter what any analyst, coach, or columnist says. It will be good for a laugh and a chuckle all season. lol

I like the ESPN Crawl analogy....that made me laugh :D  :D

That "BUST" Tannehill with NO TURNOVERS today and leads a road win vs a quality team. lol lol Boy is he a bust  ::)

You said, "Name one QB of the past 16 starters that got support from the fans."  Henne got a boatload of support from the fans.  If you mean, "name a QB that got support forever," well, even Bob Griese didn't get support forever.

Furthermore, this IS the beginning for Tannehill, so he should be getting support.  And when it comes to the end (which, hopefully, is 15+ years from now), there will be calls to replace him, too.

Two interesting Tannehill stats I came across today..

-Ryan Tannehill is the first rookie in NFL history to pass for 1,250+ yards and record at least two wins in his team’s 1st 5 games.

-QB Ryan Tannehill has thrown 19 passes of 20 or more yards. Only five QBs have thrown more this season.

Here is another...

Tannehill's yards per attempt (7.5) is the 13th highest in the NFL heading into week six.