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Barry Bonds
Sammy Sosa
Roger Clemens
Mike Piazza
Craig Biggio

No evidence linking Piazza to PED use or cheating, so he should get in easily. Biggio is a case that can be debated on nothing but merit. I don't think he should get in despite his 3,000 hits. He had a very good career, but his hits and runs scored just came from playing forever as opposed to dominating the game in a 10-15 year span.

Sosa has absolutely no chance because before his steroid use, he wasn't anything special at all like Clemens and Bonds were. I don't think Bonds or Clemens get in either because of their long history with steroids. "Allegedly".

McGwire has been on the ballot for 6 years and he is only at 19.5 percent, so he really has no chance. I'd be shocked if any of those 3 made it into the Hall this year, let alone in the future.

I think that you have to suck it up and put guys like Bonds and Clemens in the hall.  Steroids were part of the game.  And especially in cases where these guys weren't specficially caught, you have to let them in.

As much as I hate to, I agree. You can't wait until after the fact and then punish them. They should have been reprimanded when they were doing the PED, not years later. Just like Lance Armstrong.....uh, never mind. lol

Disagree. 

1.  You punish people when you catch them.  Avoiding detection should not grant you impunity.

2. This is different than Armstrong.  LA was stripped of his medals.  If the issue was 'should Bonds give back his Gold Glove Awards' than we woud have valid comparison.  Here we are talking about if we should give them a NEW award, in light of the taints.

Not sure if they belong in or not.  Having them in might send the wrong message to the kids who are starting T-ball this spring about the right and wrong way to play the game.  But their dishonor must be measure with their honors before deciding. 

I can't speak for Clemens, but Bonds deserves HOF based strictly on his pre-PED body of work.

Then again, if you can keep Pete Rose out...

If Palmeiro and McGwire aren't getting in, let's see how the writers like Bonds and Clemens.

PEDS or not, Bonds was in a league by himself ahead of any of those other guys. He came within 8 hits of batting .400 one year and played against pitchers who were likely juicing as well. Not sure he had a gross advantage over anyone else in MLB. The guy was a freak, and while I doubt he gets in, I think he should. -EK

I have said that for years. It is OK to get caught with cocaine and come back, but to bet on your team.....

Hoodie, the league had several years to catch them and didn't. How have they caught them now? They literally made a federal case with Clemons and proved nothing.

PS. Government has no business being involved in sports. Just another form of intrusion.   

The thing is, he never bet on his team as a player.  He did it as a manager.  That doesn't have any effect on what he did as a player. 

And for the record, I don't condone his actions either.

I would be shocked if they were put in on their first year with all of the controversy. Personally I don't think the cheaters, especially if caught, should be allowed in.

^^^ Doctoring the baseball is cheating also, but there are pitchers in the HOF that were very good at it.  The problem is that once you let one player in that used PED's, then it opens the floodgates to admit all.  Palmeiri, Clemens, and Bonds all would have been HOF's before they started using PED's.  I don't see any of them getting in.

I agree that Bonds was a great player before his head became The Great Pumpkin and should be in the HOF if we were just judging that, but I am not so sure about Clemens.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/clemero02.shtml (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/clemero02.shtml)

Look for yourself. The popular theory is that Clemens began taking steroids when he went to Toronto because of how utterly ridiculous those two seasons were in comparison to his entire career and his current age. At the time, he had 192 wins entering his Age 34 season. Fastball pitches decline faster than finesse pitchers because they rely on blowing the ball by the hitter as opposed to painting the corners. So, you figure 6 more seasons and he probably ends up with 260 wins. Great total, but not the magic 300 number.

He still would've hit 3,000 K's barring an injury, but would've topped out around 3,600 or so assuming an average decline. I think he still would've gotten in, but he wouldn't be in the conversation of GOAT, or even his own era.

The thing with the steroid numbers is not so much that someone hit 73 Homeruns (although that's just ridiculous), it's that they hit 73 Homeruns when they turned 37. You don't get better when you get older, you get worse. Much worse. So, you have to take the ridiculous years of when guys produced like MVP's past the age of 37 and essentially cut them down by 50-75%. Look at those numbers and see if they are HoF numbers.

I'd let Pete Rose in long before the Roid Rangers...

I will agree with that.


It isn't up to the voters to prove that these guys committed a crime, it is up to the players to prove themselves worthy of being honored as the best of the best of all time.  Their drug use is a negative on that score and should be taken into consideration. 

Note: I am not saying they definitely don't belong.  Just that it should be part of the consideration.  To draw an analogy:  When Belichick is up for consideration for the football hall of fame, camaragate should and most likely will be part of the discussion.  I doubt it will keep him out of Canton, but I do expect it will be weighted as a factor when by the voters when voting.

With the PEDs I am unsure if it should be an automatic bar or not.  And am unsure how I would vote if I had a ballot.  But if I did have a ballot it would very much be an issue I would have to consider seriously. 

What he did was wrong and lieing about it made it worse....but a lifetime ban???  Seems harsh to me. Almost every other athlete gets a second chance.

Who was the pitcher that was suspended something like 7 times for cocaine? Steve something.   

Steve Howe must be the guy you're referring to.  Sad story there

Joe Jackson and Pete Rose belong in the Hall of Fame before any of these guys.  Of the 5 the only one I see that I like is Piazza.  I would argue that Biggio should get in.  3000 hits, plus the guy was notorious for taking one for the team if I remember correctly, and he had decent power.

Biggio played in 2 huge hitter's parks in his career. 291 HR in 20 years isn't great. Career 112 OPS+. It's a very good career and one day he may get in on the 15th or something try like Jim Rice, but nothing about him screams Hall of Famer except the 3,000 hits which he just got from playing for so long. The fact that he played 3 different positions and won Gold Gloves at 2 of them are remarkable, even if Gold Gloves are incredibly useless nowadays.

The ever reliable "sources" is reporting that Bonds and Clemens are going to fall short of being inducted. No word on what their actual percentages are, but it wouldn't be surprising if this were true.

Looks like your sources were right on.  Jacob Ruppert, Hank O'Day and Deacon White are this year's inductees.

That was just the Veteran's Committee selections. They specialize mainly in older players who aren't on the ballot anymore.

The main voting didn't take place yet, but it's unlike Bonds and Clemens get in this time around. Too much heat and the precedent has been set with how little support McGwire got.

I think it's Piazza and maybe Biggio, just because he looks squeaky clean next to everyone else.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcgrifr01.shtml (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcgrifr01.shtml)

I was over at Deadspin and they were running down the guys who won't get elected this time around and haven't been elected yet. They got to Fred McGriff and said this "So they don't vote in the guys who might have inflated their numbers with PEDs. But then they also don't vote in the guys, like McGriff, whose stats suffer only in comparison to the inflated numbers. Makes sense".

If you think that a guy was on steroids and don't want him in, then fine, but don't use his numbers as a way to show why another player doesn't measure up. Why isn't McGriff in the HoF? 493 HR, 2,500 hits. Career OPS+ of 134. Excellent postseason numbers. Yet, he is at 23.9% now and really has no chance whatsoever. Why?

Former Marlins outfielder Jeff Conine, who is on the ballot for the first time this year, spoke out and totally blasted Bonds, Clemens, and Sosa.  Apparently he's in good with the writers and he feels that they will make these guys pay for what they did and not let them in.

Yeah, they have no chance this year and Sosa has no chance whatsoever. You can't convict them in a court of law but you can certainly convict them in the court of public opinion, and that's what the HoF is anyway.

Maybe one day Bonds and Clemens will get in, but I have my doubts.

no players were elected to the hall, first time it's happened since 1996. You would have thought at least Craig Biggio a guy with over 3000 hits would have gotten in. But he was the closest with 39 votes away.

I really enjoyed the debate show on MLB Network lastnight about,for and against who might or might now make it this year,and why.......It doesn't surprise me about No one...

Biggio is more borderline than people think because he is the weakest hitter to ever get 3,000 hits. He really just accumulated his numbers over a long career rather than be a dominant player. No one ever said "Oh no, it's Biggio".

Piazza not getting in surprised me a bit because he has never been linked to steroids outside of locker room rumors, so he should've gotten in. The assumption he did steroids is WAY different than the assumption Bonds did steroids. With Piazza, you see a big guy and a dominant hitter. With Bonds, you see a dominant hitter who then put on 40 pounds of muscle at Age 37, grew 4 hat sizes and hit 73 Homeruns. So, it's pretty obvious that Barry cheated but not so much that Piazza did.

Wham, Bam, Alacazam.  Just say no to Roiders

Piazza and Biggio should both be in there, imo...

I agree with you there.  But the fact that both Bonds and Clemens couldn't crack the 40% mark speaks volumes.

This whole debate is stupid.  Sportswriters are punishing players for ethics.  Put the best players in the hall of fame.  It's not the hall of integrity.  Just take out the integrity clause altogether and put in Rose, the Blacksox, and the rest of the roid-heads.

^^ Actually, it's part of the Qualification to get in the Hall...
(there is the integrity Clause)

5. Voting: Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played. (http://baseballhall.org/hall-famers/rules-election/bbwaa) <-Link to HOF website

The question is, should the integrity clause apply to Pete Rose the player, when it was Pete Rose the manager who committed the acts that got him banned from baseball?

I don't think morality should apply, but that is different from taking steroids. To me, morality means was he a good citizen (Ty Cobb was not, despite large amounts of charitable work he did not want anyone to know about), any arrests or wife beatings (looking at you, Brett Myers).

Steroids flat out make you a better player that turns Scrubs into All-Stars (Melky Cabrera), All-Stars into MVPs (Giambi) and they make Hall of Famers into the Greatest of All-Time (Bonds and Clemens). So I do think that is worth debating and keeping guys out for. What I strongly disagree with is what they did to Piazza. They are just punishing him for playing in the same era as steroid users with absolutely no proof or reasonable doubt other than he was really good.

Also, whoever voted for Aaron Sele shouldn't be allowed to vote anymore.

Especially now that Lance Armstrong has made a mockery of the testing process. You can test negative all you want, I don't believe for a second that you AREN'T using PED's. As far as I'm concerned every last person in sports is finding a way to cheat. Why single out these guys?

we should just not test for PED . .let everyone dope as much as they want .. then it'll be an even playing field

I think that the MLB didn't do their job to test, they knew it was happening, and they let it happen when it was convenient for them (when they wanted rating for the epic homerun battle).  Now, they want to wag their finger.

And Lil B, I know that there is an integrity clause.  I'm saying that they should remove it.  It's also stupid because you have known scumbags that are in the hall.  Ty Cobb is a sonofabitch by all accounts and nobody is trying to kick him out.

One of the biggest problem is the MLBPA and how powerful they are. The easiest way to stop steroids is this "Those who fail a PED test will be suspended for one year and have their current contract voided at the team's discretion". Done, no more steroids.

Of course, the union would never allow that.

They would be incredibly stupid to do so.

Do you not see the glaring conflict of interest in a team being allowed to instantly void the contract of a player who failed a test, when said team provides medical support to this player on a regular basis?

"LATE-BREAKING NEWS - CARL CRAWFORD HAS MYSTERIOUSLY TESTED POSITIVE FOR BANNED SUBSTANCES!   RED SOX BRASS UNFORTUNATELY FORCED TO TERMINATE HIS ALBATROSS CONTRACT!"

I wouldn't be worried about that too much, as I am sure if both parties ever agreed to this, there would be testing doctors on both sides.

They wouldn't agree with it because there is nothing to gain but everything to lose.

I'd be stalking Alfonso Soriano,hoping to get that one chance to spike his drink with anything on the banned substance list...  :-[ :-X :| ;) :D ;D

What difference would that make?

Team trainer slips player banned substance.
Player fails both the team test and the union test.
Player proclaims his innocence; no one cares.
Player's contract is voided.

I was referring to chain of command and whether or not the samples would be mishandled or tainted or even switched after the fact. If this ever passed, which it will NEVER, I imagine a Union Doctor would always be present in the clubhouse, especially when injections or medicines or administered.

Unless you are Mike Trout and have a favorable contract, then you would not poison a great guy. A-Rod and Teixeira should watch out.

And that's why such a policy would never be implemented.  It's an obvious escape hatch.