The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

I oppose spending tax dollars on all sports stadiums.

Two reason:

1.  I support raising tax dollars on billionares and millionares to give min wage employees healthcare.  I oppose raising taxes on min wage employees to benifit billionares and millionares.  And the people this helps is first and foremost Ross (a billionare) second, large hotel chains (multimillionares) and third luxuary box fans.  (upper class and uppermiddle class). 

2. I oppose tax dollars, tax breaks, economic developement dollars etc, being used to compete with other regions of our country because it is bad national policy.  In the US the vast majority of economic developement dollars and tax breaks are not used to keep jobs in the is country, but to attact the business from one area of the country to another.  Having a football stadium in Miami instead of LA or Los Vegas does nothing to help the national economy or unemployment rate.  Other countries use the majority of economic dollars to improve nationally.  (E.g. India/China/Japan uses its economic dev $$ to bring jobs from the USA to their countires not to fight over where in India the jobs will go.) Only the USA thinks so provincally.  We need to change that if we are going to compete internationally. 

With news of a press conference coming today:

Do you support stadium upgrades?  On (partial) taxpayer dime?

I have trouble using tax dollars to support a stadium that is pricing out the average fan.  Concession prices are OUTRAGEOUS (more than the other local teams) and parking is now $25 to park far away.  That's preposterous, especially for a turd team.  The Dolphins experience has no value.  I'm all for using public funds to help bring in public facilities, but they should be upgrades that everyone can enjoy -- not just to entice rich people to come in from out of town to drop big bucks.

Give us a good product at a fair price and don't nickel and dime us for a 15 cent soda and $25 to park a car.  Then you can use public funds.

Hoodie for President. -EK

Dave for president. 

They can't even put Dolphins on the end zone for gosh sake.

I don't like the thought of an upgrade, wasted money, the stands are too far away from the field.  Wait a pair of years until the team is winning and build a new stadium, WITHOUT tax money.

i'd love miami to have a soccer team in MLS .. or at least one that isn't so dumpy in the USL

i miss the fusion when they were down here.

the pacific northwest has an abundance of soccer teams with the sounders and the portland team

  I am sure it's cost/benefit, but if you're already spending 400 mil...damn.  How much do these new stadiums cost?

Metlife was around $1.6 Billion because of our corrupt politicians and unions. It is a dump, one of the most aesthetically unpleasing sports arenas/stadiums in the country. Meanwhile, you have that cathedral in Dallas which is immaculate AND can house offseason events due to it's roof which was made for $500 Million cheaper. That helps offset the cost and creates larger profits down the road.

If Miami was going to spend $400 Million on renovations, just start building a new stadium in a better location with a retractable roof. As long as the corruption is held to a minimum, it would be 3 times the cost, but that money could be made back much quicker with the increase in events that aren't football related. Have the stupid Rolling Stones play there anytime of the year and not worry about the rain.

^^ I was thinking that as well.  Retrofitting a 25-30 year old building to compete with, say, Cowboys Stadium or even Marlins Park is a futile effort.

Considering they just did a multi-million-dollar stadium upgrade a few years ago, I wonder what realistic lifespan they expect to get out of this stadium after the proposed upgrades?  Surely they don't expect to get another 25 years out of that building - upgrades or not...

I just wonder if its smart use of funds, or if it is more worthwhile to demo the joint and rebuild from scratch.

on a new site in a better area.

Considering they just did a multi-million-dollar stadium upgrade a few years ago, I wonder what realistic lifespan they expect to get out of this stadium after the proposed upgrades?  Surely they don't expect to get another 25 years out of that building - upgrades or not...

I just wonder if its smart use of funds, or if it is more worthwhile to demo the joint and rebuild from scratch.

I don't think it's reasonable to try and be perpetually state of the art.  You need to build things that are a good foundation and don't become outdated right away.  If you want to make a pass at some upgrades here and there -- great.

But this change looks pretty substantial, but I don't think it's a big enough change to warrant the cost.  If we're spending 400 mil, I want it to be a perfect solution.

Dave, the end zones are already right on the stands.  Not sure why you keep saying "tear out the lower bowl" because they are basically doing that.  To do what you're expecting would raise the end zones farther from the field, and that's counter-productive.

I don't think you need to add more rows to the endzone.  But you need to match the "grade" with the sidelines.  Because they're only adjusting the sides and not the endzones, they're having to remove pieces of the lower-corner, making these strange triangles and hallways. 

Interesting, too, that club level seats appear to be gone from the sidelines.  I didn't notice that before.

I agree there.  It cost Jerry Jones $1.2 billion to build Cowboys stadium, so $400 million should be enough to give a nice facelift to an already existing facility that is less than 30 years old.

I'm kinda in the same boat, too.

Now that the Marlins are gone, I see an opportunity to make this the Miami Dolphins stadium FIRST.  Then, if they want to have concerts and soccer and all that, great -- but not at the expense of making it a great football experience.  That's my problem with the whole plan to begin with.  The "bones" of the lower deck has the seats too far from the field.  That should be fully fixed -- not just patched.  Other than that, the changes look good, for the most part.

Are they ditching the high def screens in the end-zone? 
Are they moving the screen(s) that they have and adding 2 more?  Or just putting in 4 new screens?

Are the seats in the corners temporary?  Will they be collapsible?  Will they be there for Dolphins game?  All games?  Only high profile?

I'm concerned with the "janky" transition of the sidelines to the endzones.  I have little faith that those lower corner seats are going to be worth the price of admission.  And what are those weird, brown seats in the renderings?

First off, I disagree that it sucks.  It's not ideal, but it doesn't suck.  The stadium works fine.  I think it's just causing some problems with sellouts, made worse by the fact that the product blows.

I guess I have to be in favor of something that's going to make our stadium better.  But I don't know if it's the best option. 

I'm pretty sure the other owners have to vote to approve that sort of move...and can you "really" see the NFL abandoning the South Florida market?

I understand that "the sky is falling" is a traditional fall-back position for many fans, but I just don't see the Dolphins leaving Miami any time in the near future.

I'm pretty sure the other owners have to vote to approve that sort of move...and can you "really" see the NFL abandoning the South Florida market?

I'm actually surprised to see as many people as I have admit to still following the team if they moved.  I'd be scarred and not just not follow them anymore, but likely hate them.

Now if they moved to Orlando I would still follow them ... but that's a different story.

Agree that is a different story.  If the Pats move to Hartford, CT (as was once proposed) I would be happy with that move.  A move outside of NE, not so much. 

I'd argue that a team with a regional name like "New England" moving within said region is not even close to the same as a team from MIAMI playing home games in ORLANDO.  They are 4 hours apart by car.

"as was once proposed"

Reading comprehension, professor. 

I'd argue that a team with a regional name like "New England" moving within said region is not even close to the same as a team from MIAMI playing home games in ORLANDO.  They are 4 hours apart by car.

For many of the Dolphin fans the game would be just as close or even closer if it was in Orlando instead. Orlando is part of the Dolphin fan base area. 

As much as I would love a move to Orlando, the league won't let that happen. They view Orlando as Jacksonville territory.

If the Jaguars had come around at the same time as the Dolphins, that might very well be the case.  But from what I've heard about Orlando, there are tons of Dolphins fans there because the Dolphins came into existence 30 years before the Jaguars did.

I wasn't saying that there are more Jag fans in the area. I was referring to what CF clarified. The TV rights map is just ridiculous. If I lived one county south, I would be in the "Miami" market. But since our TV stations come out of Orlando, we are forced to have to scan the schedule and hope Jacksonville is at home that week, play a NFC opponent, or play in a different time slot. Finding a Jag fan in my area is like trying to find a Bucs fan during the 80's. You won't find any.

The Dolphins opened up their books, and its ugly. Real ugly. One of the few NFL teams to actually lose money some years. And this goes beyond just "win more games and you will make more money." that won't solve all the problems. It would help but that doesn't solve the type of financial problems Miami currently is facing.

If this stadium deal doesn't go through there is no doubt in my mind this team is moving down the road.

The Dolphins aren't moving anywhere.

Doesn't surprise me one bit and I'd be willing to bet that the Dolphins are FAR from the only team like this. In fact I would go so far as to say that I suspect this is pretty much true of most of the teams in the league. The owners wouldn't have fought so hard for the changes they did in the last bargaining agreement if every team was making money hand over fist. They were willing to sacrifice the season if so be it.

I'm right there with you. How many cities are there that are avaioable and able to host an NFL franchise? Everyone tries to talk LA up but they have already lost two NFL teams in my lifetime.

I don't see San Antone being able to host an NFL team (By host I mean effectively) and the NFL is definitely not giveing Las Vegas a franchise during my lifetime.

Doesn't surprise me one bit and I'd be willing to bet that the Dolphins are FAR from the only team like this.

In fact I would go so far as to say that I suspect this is pretty much true of most of the teams in the league.

The problem with any theories about which cities are and are not getting a team is that the 32-team configuration is just too perfect for the NFL.  The scheduling, in particular, works out like a charm.  Adding anything less than 4 teams would be a logistical nightmare.

doubtful.  If that was true the owners would have opened the books during the CBA negotiations. 

It is also possible, the Dolphins are in the worst shape of any NFL team and that is why they are opening their books, while the rest keep them closed.

I don't know. It's possible they don't want anyone to know that's it's NOT the American dream to own an NFL football team that everyone thinks it is.
It's possible, but I doubt it. I'm certain there are teams that are even worse off than the Dolphins when it comes to stadiums, team value, merchandising, fan experience etc. Miami isn't near the top whenever ESPN does their rankings of the franchises, but they aren't near the bottom either.

Edit: Well I guess I was wrong about that. 2012 Team Rankings (http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/teamrankings) Wow, I think that's as low as I have ever seen the Dolphins. Maybe it is possible.

Edit2: After comparing where Miami was only 2 years ago (14 out of 32 teams in the NFL), I have to wonder about these rankings. If you can go from top half of the league to 2nd to last in 2 years, seems like these rankings are VERY subjective. Franchise value just doesn't change that much in 2 years. So if Miami wins a playoff game this year, they go to what top half again? That's silly. Obviously Miami was ranked too high in September of 2010 due in large part to the success they had in 2009 and too low in September of 2012 due in large part to everyone expecting them to win like 3 games. The reality is the Dolphins weren't much different in 2012 then they were in 2010, perception is the only thing that has changed.

The ESPN ranking are irrelevant to the question of whether or not the Dolphins are among the worst or best in terms of PROFITABILITY.

That's right: losing 15 straight games to NE before winning one, combined with wins against KC, OAK, and WSH, were enough to rocket BUF up the charts.  And just for posterity's sake: teams rated below the mighty Bills (#59) in that same ranking included the Yankees (#82), the Cowboys (#86), and the Lakers (#89).

Take that ranking with a planet-sized chunk of salt.

The bill is not dead there are more stadiums than just miami's being discussed.  But the Dolphins are the only ones wanting local tax money that is the problem. There will be a vote in Miami Dade on May 14th to let voters have their say. Also the house just wants the bill cleaned up its not dead it has not even been taken up by them yet. Overreact much?

I'm really disappointed in our elected officials.  Its their job to represent the people, and they didn't even let the people give their opinion.

This is a really sad day.  I hope they don't give up on this and try to raise the funding some other way.

I wonder if there's a hope to get it back on the table by modifying the plan, or if they just shit-can the entire thing now.  Not having Super Bowls in Miami is a huge problem, and shouldn't be overlooked.

I hear ya....I just feel like it's a hostage situation a little bit and I'm inclined to say "fuck you -- move the team if you have to".  Of course I don't want that and it would be pretty devastating, but I just can't have that much sympathy for this organization.  They price fans out of the market and then whine about not getting free shit.

Maybe this is just a realty of the NFL.  The product is so popular and salaries are so high, that you have to spend crazy amount of money to keep a franchise up.  So, the fans are stuck paying the bill or they're set aside for another market that will.  I just don't like that setup.  Such is the reality of sports, I suppose.

Maybe I'm just being dramatic, but when I hear threats of the team leaving if they don't get the stadium deal, it makes me less willing, not more, to be supportive.

I don't disagree with that.  I just can't see myself getting too bent out of shape over it.  Can this still be funded privately?

I don't disagree with that.  I just can't see myself getting too bent out of shape over it.  Can this still be funded privately?

It can be, and I'm hoping Ross moves forward with a partial version of his plan, which he can fund with the money he was personally throwing in.  You might not get the canopy and new TV screens, but maybe they can add the lower bowl seats like they were discussing and bring the sidelines in.

I don't disagree with that.  I just can't see myself getting too bent out of shape over it.  Can this still be funded privately?

^^ They know that, they know what's best.  Personally, I don't necessarily agree, since the canopy wasn't covering the field and Super Bowls are held at night.  We worried about some rich people MAYBE getting rained on and the most coveted sporting event in the country?  Not going to cry too much about that one.

but bringing in the sideline seats adds a couple-thousand top-dollar seats and brings in more revenue.  I could see them opting for the renovation that will pay them back later.

Reports are coming out now that some believe the reason the bill never got to a vote is the Speaker of the House in Florida Will Weatherford is from Tampa and lives there. And if Miami doesn't get anymore Super Bowls then who will get MORE Super Bowls (aka more $$$$$$)......TAMPA!!

A little home cookin within the state many believe which is why this bill died!

Reports are coming out now that some believe the reason the bill never got to a vote is the Speaker of the House in Florida Will Weatherford is from Tampa and lives there. And if Miami doesn't get anymore Super Bowls then who will get MORE Super Bowls (aka more $$$$$$)......TAMPA!!

A little home cookin within the state many believe which is why this bill died!

Reports are coming out now that some believe the reason the bill never got to a vote is the Speaker of the House in Florida Will Weatherford is from Tampa and lives there. And if Miami doesn't get anymore Super Bowls then who will get MORE Super Bowls (aka more $$$$$$)......TAMPA!!

A little home cookin within the state many believe which is why this bill died!

^^ That's my problem as well.  From things I've been reading online, its believed that the one guy in the legislature who stopped it had some political or financial agenda he was promoting and stopped it for selfish reasons.  

There is more riding on this bill than just the Dolphins stadium. The Jags, Daytona international speedway and a new soccer stadium in Orlando are all tied to it. There are some other large forces pushing for something to get done. We have not seen the last of this discussion.

And the Orlando Magic were leaving Orlando a few years ago. The Kings were leaving Sacramento too. I can go on and on this is how these things go. Threaten whine cry piss moan eventually you get what you want. I find it hard to believe after giving in to the Marlins demands that they will let the Dolphins leave south Florida. I guess we will see.

Reports are coming out now that some believe the reason the bill never got to a vote is the Speaker of the House in Florida Will Weatherford is from Tampa and lives there. And if Miami doesn't get anymore Super Bowls then who will get MORE Super Bowls (aka more $$$$$$)......TAMPA!!

A little home cookin within the state many believe which is why this bill died!

Or maybe it is that someone who represents the taxpayers of Tampa doesn't believe that the taxpayers of Tampa should fund a stadium in Miami. 

Yeah, it is strange that a county tax was decided at the state level.

While this is definately a blow to Miami's SB chances, I don't think the Dolphins are going anywhere. Miami has been on a downswing for a long time, but my gut is telling me they are currently on an upswing. All Miami needs is one good playoff run to turn things around and I'm hopeful that's not too far off.

this has nothing to do with winning games or losing games. This is about revenue streams coming into the stadium and the franchise.

Miami could go 14-2 and win the super bowl and it wouldn't change any of this stuff that is going on. Selling out 8 home games is a drop in the bucket of this teams financial issues.

Winning games would absolutely affect revenue. 

threats of moving the dolphins are laughable...

the nfl isn't about moving a franchise in what is around the #8 media market (dade, broward, palm beach), to a market that is slightly bigger. that is like moving pieces of the total nfl television revenue around.

Not enough.  Even if you sold out every game, that's only 8 per year.  (Some of those would sell out anyway, or be bought up by TV rights.)  You gotta realize that the Marlins leaving cuts out a ton of revenue from renting out that stadium.  You have to supplement with other events to make up: soccer, concerts, bowl games, etc.  It's hard to do that without the upgrades.

While not being a lie, you really sugar coated Seattle's history before their move. Calling Seattle a championship team is about like calling the Dolphins one as well.

Also you are comparing different sports. While they are both in major sports leagues,  think it is an unfair comparison. Three (I am going to exclude the Nets move) NBA teams (Sonics/Thunder, Grizzles, & Hornets) have moved in recent history while it has been since 1997 since the Oilers were the last team to relocate in the NFL.

Also by saying "allow" are you including the fact the NFL barred the Oakland move to LA only to have it overturned in the courts?

Not enough.  Even if you sold out every game, that's only 8 per year.  (Some of those would sell out anyway, or be bought up by TV rights.)  You gotta realize that the Marlins leaving cuts out a ton of revenue from renting out that stadium.  You have to supplement with other events to make up: soccer, concerts, bowl games, etc.  It's hard to do that without the upgrades.

you haven't read up on this situation and don't know the details. You have it 100% wrong. Nobody in Tampa would have to pay anything with this deal

From 1995-1997, four NFL teams moved.  Meanwhile, at the same time, you would have had to go back to 1978 to find 4 examples of NBA teams moving.  It's just timing.

Ross agreed to cover the cost to get it on the floor for a vote 

Since this was a special election to be voted on in the local counties, the Dolphins were charged with money associated with opening the polls, early voting, etc.

Excuse my ignorance, but what costs are involved with getting a bill on the floor for a vote? Something about having to pay to get a bill considered seems a wee bit shady to me.

They "were" charged?  Or they "would have been" charged, had the bill gone to the floor?

Side note: Ross paid for 100% of this May 14th vote out of his own pocket. $3.4 million. The vote that now won't take place. That was a non-refundable payment. So he just lost $3.4 million. Think Ross is happy these days with the Florida legislature?! HA!

You don't think winning games will effect revenue?
It's not just selling out the games, it's the merchandising boost it would create, plus concessions etc. On top of that they would probably be able to raise ticket prices, concession prices etc. Would probably help make getting a vote a little easier as well. I think you underestimate what a 14-2 season and a SB win would do for the team.

Now it wouldn't fix everything, I'm not suggesting it would, but I think it would keep the Dolphins in Miami.

threats of moving the dolphins are laughable...

the nfl isn't about moving a franchise in what is around the #8 media market (dade, broward, palm beach), to a market that is slightly bigger. that is like moving pieces of the total nfl television revenue around.

According to the following Miami was 29th in attendance with only 76% of stadium capacity at home games (by far the lowest number in the NFL). You don't think a 25% increase (or more) in ticket sales, concessions, merchendising etc for 8 games would make a difference? I respectfully disagree. That plus whatever Miami would get if they hosted a playoff game or 2 for example? Like I said, it wouldn't fix all the issues, but it sure would help.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance/_/year/2012

I wonder if he gets his money back since it didn't make it to the floor. And is it ethical for Weatherford to agree to put it on the floor take the money then change his mind? I know ethics and politics right.

They "were" charged?  Or they "would have been" charged, had the bill gone to the floor?

^^^ That seems a little questionable, just from a logic standpoint.  I mean, seriously, how would that negotiation go?

Politician-dude:  "If you want your bill to go to the floor, it will cost you $3.4 million."
Ross-dude:  "So, for $3.4 million, you guys will put it to a vote?"
Politician-dude:  "No, but we'll seriously consider sending it to the floor."
Ross-dude:  "Oh, that's OK...as long as you consider doing it."

^^^ While Weatherford is getting the majority of the press on this, several South Florida politicians were against this thing and several sat on the fence to be wooed.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. I don't think 4 NBA teams have ever moved at once if that is what you are saying. If you are saying you have to look back to 1978 to find a total of four NBA teams that moved, it is just incorrect. Seven teams relocated during that period of time (while still discounting the Nets).

But they had the votes to pass a bill that was JUST going to let the citizens decide.

The Fins wanted to fix this problem with a slight upgrade that was pretty cheap.

Let's not get carried away. There was absolutely NO guarantee that a stadium renovation was going to fix anything either.

I see, so a winning season wouldn't help, but 3 million a year from the state fixes everything.

Eh, I've heard rumors about the team being sold my whole life. I hope it doesn't happen because I don't think I'd follow the NFL anymore. I can't be a Bronco fan.

not knowing how old you are but it has been sold twice pretty recently. Robbie family to Wayne. And Wayne to Ross.

what the heck are you talking about? $3 mill a year? I have no clue what your talking about...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I read that Miami was asking for 3 million a year for 30 years from the state on top of the local money to pay for the renovations. That's why Miami was willing to sign a 30 year lease, to get 3 million a year from the state. At least that is my understanding. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the deal.

You are misunderstanding the deal. The $3 mill a year was in addition to the money for the upgrades.

If they received the deal for the tax payer money they were willing to sign a contract to stay put so in other words they wouldn't get the money and run. As of now as I understand they have no contract with anybody. A lot of teams are under contract to their stadiums we have the luxury of not being one of them or should I say Ross does.

Mike Dee on PFT LIVE today said himself winning games and selling out every game would help sure but this is a bigger picture issue than just winning more games. Go watch the video yourself its up on their site.

However the stadium already is heavy in debt (230 million for past renovations) and they also have to pay millions in property taxes every year. That 3 million a year from the state was basically going to be paying the property taxes of the stadium every year. That's why they wanted the money from the state and that's why they were willing to stay in Sun Life for 30 years if they got the money. This isn't just about the renovations for a superbowl bid, this is about having the money to stay in Sun Life for the next 30 years. The bill would have provided that. That's why killing the bill puts staying in Miami in jeopardy.

Where are you getting this 230 million debt. Please give a link.

Considering Miami has the #1 most difficult strength of schedule in the NFL this season, that's not a good thing!

New Team Name:  The Montreal Dolphins.

Didn't we just a do some upgrades a few years ago? How much did those cost? Who paid for them?

LA being in the AFC East makes as much sense as Indianapolis being in the AFC South.  There's no way the league would allow it.

OH, WAIT...

Indy to its division rivals is NOT a 5 hour flight.

San Francisco to Carolina was, yet the league intentionally placed that team in the NFC West.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:  the NFL DOES. NOT. CARE. about travel time between division rivals.  If they did, DAL would be in the NFC West (instead of STL) and MIA would be in the AFC South (instead of IND).

Carolina is in the NFC south.

Florida speaker of house responds to Dolphins criticisms
By Josh Katzowitz | NFL WriterMay 8, 2013 3:27 pm ET

After the Florida State Legislature -- and in particular the speaker of the house -- declined to bring up a vote that would have allowed Miami-Dade residents to help decide how to or if they should finance the team's stadium renovations, the Dolphins were livid.

It probably will cost Miami-Dade the chance at additional Super Bowls, and Dolphins CEO Mike Dee has made vague threats about how the team might just have to move eventually.

And owner Stephen Ross very publicly ripped Florida Speaker of the House Will Weatherford for not bringing up the legislation for a vote.

Now, Weatherford has fired back at the Dolphins.

First, here's what Ross said:

“Speaker Weatherford did far more than just deny the people of Miami Dade the right to vote on an issue critical to the future of our local economy. The Speaker singlehandedly put the future of Super Bowls and other big events at risk for Miami Dade and for all of Florida. He put politics before the people and the 4,000 jobs this project would have created for Miami Dade, and that is just wrong. …

“He gave me and many others his word that this legislation would go to the floor of the House for a vote, where I know, and he knows, we had the votes to win by a margin as large as we did in the Senate. It's hard to understand why he would stop an election already in process and disenfranchise the 40,000 people who have already voted. I can only assume he felt it was in his political interest to do so. Time will tell if that is the case, but I am certain this decision will follow Speaker Weatherford for many years to come.”

Responded Weatherford, a 33-year-old Republican, via the Palm Beach Post: “At no point during the process were any promises made to hear the Dolphins Stadium bill on the House floor. It's no coincidence that we haven't heard about this so-called commitment until after the bill died.”

Also this: “The feedback from Miami-Dade was negative and there were concerns expressed by members on both sides of the aisle. It's not the fault of the Florida Legislature that Dolphins' management failed to win legislative approval to force taxpayers to upgrade Sun Life Stadium after paying for a local referendum. Some would call that putting the cart before the horse.”

Look, it's hard to be sympathetic to the Dolphins. I feel it's past time to stop asking so much of the public to help finance pro sports stadiums because we've seen again and again, that the city and state governments are the ones to lose in these scenarios.

As a result of the Forida Legislature's failure to act on the bill -- “like 700 of the 1,100 bills filed this session, it did not have the necessary support for passage,” Weatherford said -- the Dolphins no longer are planning to renovate the stadium. And even though the South Florida Super Bowl Bid Committee will hold a news conference Thursday to unveil the final details of its bid to host either Super Bowl L or Super Bowl LI, there doesn't seem to be much optimism for Miami's chances.

And while we still think it's absolutely fabulous that Ross is pledging at least half of his estimated estate of $4 billion to charity, that also would leave plenty of opportunity for him to, you know, pay for the stadium renovations himself.

I think Ross and Dee are passing the buck a bit here. This thing could have been handled differently but I think Ross thought it was going to be a piece of cake when in reality it wasn't.

You are correct Pappy but I don't see how that contradicts me at all. I think Ross still thought it was a piece of cake. From the articles I have seen he didn't try smoozing the right people. That tells me he either doesn't want to play the political game (which his very vocal position since this happened contradicts) or he thought he didn't need to.

He said he felt they had the votes while Weatherford says otherwise.

Naive about what? I have no idea why Weatherford didn't bring it up. He says it was because the Senate did not get it to them in sufficient time to discuss it.

After realignement they went into the South. When they joined the league they were put in the West.

In reality, this process should have started much sooner. I really think it would have had a better chance of passing then.

I'm not the only one who thinks it was rushed either.

Alright Pappy. I'm not going to argue it anymore. You obviously "know" there were votes for it to pass so it needed to be voted on.

WOW.  This would be awesome.  Move into either Broward or Palm Beach.  But I don't know how they get funding for the stadium without having to go through Weatherford and the state legislature again.

That would be really great!

Screw upgrades, Fins open to MOVING to Palm Beach County Florida with a whole new stadium!

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/05/09/3389294/miami-dolphins-open-minded-to.html

^^^ After reading that article, those are my thoughts exactly.  Nothing like massively overreacting to a generic "means nothing" comment.

Keep in mind Palm Beach County has not offered the Dolphins anything of the sort as of Thursday.

 

Nothing that has gone public. Maybe they have initiated contact with the Fins once the whole deal fell through last week.

As we learned last Friday what happens BEHIND THE SCENES doesn't always come out and will catch people by surprise!

I couldn't agree more...and here are a few more maybes that haven't gone public yet, but might potentially be possibly happening in some form, somewhere behind, beneath or within the scene:

1) The Dolphins are secretly in negotiations with Reno, Nevada, and plan on changing the team name from the "Dolphins" to the "Cokeheads"
2) Team officials have convinced Dion Jordan to get a sex change operation, because they figure one more hot cheerleader will boost attendance
3) Dave Gray is considering changing the website name to "The Dolphins Make Me Scratch My Nutsack," which will be a temporary site until he's ready to launch "The Cokeheads Make Me Scratch My Nutsack"

Maybe...just maybe

Phin, it has already been established that the money the Dolphins spent was to pay for the referendum voting process. Weatherford doesn't see that money or get any of it.

As for the bill, it seems once again the focus is that all it did was allow South Florida voters to decide on this tax. That was just a small portion of the bill. It also included hundreds of millions of tax dollars and other sports teams. The House had about 2-3 days if I recall to consider a bill involving a lot of tax money. House Dems froze the legislature for one of those days because of healthcare issues. The South Florida representatives were the loudest in protest about this bill. I can see why this thing never came up. I think Ross and Dee are passing the buck a bit here. This thing could have been handled differently but I think Ross thought it was going to be a piece of cake when in reality it wasn't.

That said, I wish it could have gone through. In addition to the stadium upgrades it would have been very helpful in Orlando's building of a soccer stadium.

Yep because there were articles published by newspaper on those topics and those are realistic things that could happen!

^^ surely you don't consider the National Enquirer on par with the Sun Sentinel or Palm Beach Post.

Nothing that has gone public. Maybe they have initiated contact with the Fins once the whole deal fell through last week.

As we learned last Friday what happens BEHIND THE SCENES doesn't always come out and will catch people by surprise!

There is absolutely nothing to suggest anything is going on beheind the scenes. 

^^ surely you don't consider the National Enquirer on par with the Sun Sentinel or Palm Beach Post.

Their reporting its more accurate than 99 percent of those fish wrappers out there

There is absolutely nothing to suggest anything is going on beheind the scenes.  A reporter asked would you be willing to relocated, he said I would consider it. 

and he just picked Palm Beach County out of the air?
Why not Broward?
Why not another neighboring County?

Yes
Who knows
Who knows.

It's not like Dee brought up Palm Beach County, it was a reporter. Are you implying that the reporter was the one with behind the scenes knowledge of some arrangement with Palm Beach County?

If the answer to that question is yes, my next question would be "Are you high?"

Take a journalism class for christ sakes!

Done and done, University of Maryland, 1986. I also currently work full-time as a freelance writer, and co-owned a publication company for 5 years. I do appreciate you giving me the third grade version of the reporting process though.

If the reporter asked "if Belichick offered to trade you Brady for Tannehill?"  Dee would have responded the same way, "we would consider it"

What I could use is less "MikeO is infallible" rhetoric...

This is what you have resorted too? Seriously! I thought more of you Sunstroke!

He's trying to be the next EK

Furthermore, I fail to understand how making claims about secret deals that cannot be disproven has anything to do with "journalism."  That's almost literally the opposite of journalism; it takes no effort at all to serve up fact-free hypotheticals about how maybe Stephen Ross is in negotiations to sell the Dolphins to Magic Johnson.

He's trying to be the next EK

(don't be ofended Sunstroke, above was just sarcasm and humor...no biggie. 

You wouldn't know good comedy if clawed its way out of your ass and started speedbagging your nutsack.

Mike Dee could have just said, nope not true. He didn't!

Sorry I don't buy it, the reporter could have asked about 4 neighboring counties but he asked about that one  specifically.

Dee could have just denied it like he has when asked about Ross selling the team, he can give a STRAIGHT ANSWER to that question but not this one?

What I could use is less "MikeO is infallible" rhetoric...

This is what you have resorted too? Seriously! I thought more of you Sunstroke!

Clearly. But at least EK didn't use bad comedy lines and horrible attempts at sarcasm in every post thinking he is some  stand up comedian! I would tell Stroke he isn't funny and to stick to his day job but if he is claiming to be a reporter/writer in his day job well he clearly sucks at that too!

(don't be ofended Sunstroke, above was just sarcasm and humor...no biggie. I can play that card too. Just say anything ya want and claim its "a joke" and "sarcasm" don't get worked up over it)

You wouldn't know good comedy if clawed its way out of your ass and started speedbagging your nutsack.

yeah still not funny. Keep trying though!

P.S... Even now "working blue".....you still are not funny! Just sayin!

If the reporter had asked about any one of those other counties, please explain why you would not be here right now pointing at that county instead of Palm Beach.

and he just picked Palm Beach County out of the air? Why not Broward? Why not another neighboring County?

The reporter.  Because he wanted a story. 

I would love a stadium in west Delray.  That'd be great.

In all seriousness, though, I think that the sweet spot for sports teams down here is Ft. Lauderdale.  We basically have 2 population centers -- Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, and West Palm (with cities in between). 

Ft. Lauderdale is a good balance, where people from all of those places can reasonably get to a game.  Where is is now (Hallendale, just a little bit South of Ft. Lauderdale) is pretty good.  Miami is a strange city.  It's not like Chicago and New York in that the people that go to the games don't live downtown.  Look at the Miami Arena....nobody living there is going to those games.   It's all low income housing.

I am not sure if Miami is all that unique in that most of the fans need to travel to get to the game.

I think that is the norm.   

Yes, but we don't have the same urban centers with public transit and other things going on in those areas.  You don't go anywhere near the Dolphins game unless you're specifically going to game.  There's nothing else within miles in any direction except low income housing.

But people do go to Bayside (American Airlines Arena), Sawgrass Mills Mall (Bank Atlantic Center), etc.

Foxoboro is in the middle of suburbia. Granted some of the people in the town do go to the game, but nobody goes to Foxoboro other than for the game.

When the Pats were picking in the top of the draft every year.  Now that they pick in the 20's people don't mind driving to nowhere.

The location of Dolphin stadium wasn't a problem when you had a QB named Marino.  Dolphin's problem isn't the location of the stadium.   

No one is watching football at Foxboro anymore. Are you really a New England fan?  >:D

Foxboro is a parking lot. The stadium is called Gillette. The town is spelled Foxborough.

Dolphin's problem isn't the location of the stadium.  

I believe they would be more likely to "find a way" to upgrade the stadium before they just let the Dolphins pack up and leave.

not the league, the Florida politicians.  I'm sure they can recognize the detriment it would be to to South Florida to lose the Miami Dolphins.  I imagine if it became a discussion of "improve the stadium or lose the team," maybe it sways a few extra votes. 

I think the threat of losing the team completely, not just Super Bowls, makes it more important.

At least, I'd hope so...

^^^ Can't argue with that at all...there are all sort of scumbag politicians out there.  I really do think Miami will "somehow" stay right where they are, and will eventually work out the financial elements of the stadium deal. I just don't see the Dolphins ever being anything other than the Miami Dolphins.

crap stadium that is falling apart.

^^^^^

Wouldn't he have to get rid of the Panthers before becoming an NFL owner?

Add this to the list of overstatments I have seen through this thread.

no

Really?  I thought you couldn't own another team if you were an NFL owner?  Didn't Jack Kent Cooke have to get rid of the Lakers when he bought the Redskins?

as long as the team is in the same market he is ok. Huizenga owned the Fins, Panthers, and Marlins at one point all at the same time

It's one of the oldest stadiums in the league (thats a fact). You can ignore reality but its an outdated stadium by today's standards and its experation date is about to hit

Really?  I thought you couldn't own another team if you were an NFL owner?  Didn't Jack Kent Cooke have to get rid of the Lakers when he bought the Redskins?

Now see this line is much more accurate. Old doesn't mean it is falling down.

And yet somehow it still hosts the Orange Bowl & the BCS Championship.

Isn't the Superdome older than Dolphin Stadium?

Minnesota I find to be an odd choice, isn't their new stadium going to be outdoors?

Minnesota I find to be an odd choice, isn't their new stadium going to be outdoors?