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TDMMC Forums => Around the NFL => Topic started by: MikeO on April 03, 2013, 07:17:59 am



Title: Pat White is back
Post by: MikeO on April 03, 2013, 07:17:59 am
Pat White signed with the Redskins.  Hey if Tebow can get an NFL Roster spot why not White?! They got about the same talent level as a QB


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: Dave Gray on April 03, 2013, 09:56:31 am
The only thing I think of when I think of Pat White is that last big hit he took on the sidelines when his eyes got all googley.  That was pretty disturbing.


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: Brian Fein on April 03, 2013, 11:53:52 am
I would go on record to say Pat White is a better QB than Tebow.

Let's see how that flies...


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: CF DolFan on April 03, 2013, 04:07:23 pm
I would go on record to say Pat White is a better QB than Tebow.

Let's see how that flies...
Pat White never completed a pass in the NFL. This is from an old article after Tebow had beat the Steeler's in a playoff win ... reminding us there are also several  things that Pat White will never do regardless of if he ever plays another down behind center again.


Throughout the regular season, the Steelers had only gave up six completions of 30+ yards.  Tim Tebow threw five of them in one game.  More astounding is that Pittsburgh had only given up a total of seven plays, of any kind, of 30 yards or more ALL year.   All five of Tebow's passes, by the way, were completed 15 yards or more beyond the line of scrimmage (so this isn’t a WR on a slip screen padding Tebow’s stats).  Not once all year had the Steelers allowed a 30-yard pass play to be completed on third down.  Tebow’s’ 51-yard completion to Demaryius Thomas was on third down.

Tebow is the first player to have four completions of 30 yards or more in one quarter of a playoff game in the modern era (since 1960) and the first in any game since Warren Moon in 1990.

In the last 10 years, the perennially defensive-minded Steelers had never given up more than two passes of fifty yards in any one game.  Tebow threw three of them.  This gets, somehow, even more impressive when you learn that Pittsburgh had only given up one pass of more than 45 yards all year (and in that case, most of the yards came after the catch)

Further, in the playoffs, no QB since the NFL/AFL merger in 1970 had ever completed three 50+ yard passes in a game.  "And Tebow can't throw," they say?!

Tebow connected four times with Demaryius Thomas for 204 yards.  The Steelers hadn’t allowed a 100-yard receiver since Jordy Nelson did it in last year’s Super Bowl.  Only 103 of those yards were gained after the catch, meaning that Tebow’s throws were significant (especially when you consider that the 80 yard game-winner only traveled 16 yards in the air and 64 after the catch)
 
Not a single passer threw for more than 300 yards against the Steelers this year.  Tebow finished with 316.

On 10 completions (for a still-too-low 47.6 completion percentage) out of 21 attempts, Tebow averaged 15.6 yards per attempt – one of the highest totals in recent NFL history in any game. Doing the math then, you see that Tebow averaged 31.6 yards per completion, which is the highest amount in NFL postseason history.  He is the only QB in the Super Bowl Era to ever throw for 300 yards on only 10 attempts.

Tebow ran for 50 yards and a touchdown as well.  He joins Joe Montana and Aaron Rodgers as the only NFL QBs to ever run for a TD, throw for 300 yards, and not throw any interceptions in a playoff game.

Tim Tebow’s passer rating was 125.6, which was the highest in Broncos postseason history.  Tim Tebow also set the Denver Broncos yardage record for a postseason debut, breaking Elway’s record (by almost 200 yards, so it wasn’t a high bar to set).

Using ESPN's QBR formula for quarterbacks, Tim Tebow scored a 97.3/100, the highest ever recorded for the stat, which was started in 2008.  Unlike the traditional QB rating formula, this statistic rewards QBs for throwing downfield, making plays with their feet, and completing passes in the clutch.  Tebow did all three.

Tim Tebow is only the fifth QB since 1970 to throw for at least 300 yards and two TDs in his postseason debut.

This is the second time in his first 15 games as a starter that Tebow has thrown for 300 yards.  Although this isn’t historically significant, compare this to the three standard-bearers in the NFL for throwing ability, none of whom started as a rookie either:

Tom Brady: two 300-yard passing games
Drew Brees: two 300-yard passing games
Aaron Rodgers: three 300-yard passing games
 

Nobody in their right mind would say that Tim Tebow is on-par with these guys right now.  But these guys all have 6-10 years of playing experience. However, it is perfectly reasonable to compare Tebow to them during their first season of starting (I always hear, "really, you're comparing Tim Tebow to the great Drew Brees?"  Yes, actually, I am.).  And Tebow doesn’t seem to be any better or worse than the game’s top three current passers were when they were inexperienced.

Tebow’s game-winning, overtime touchdown pass of 80 yards was the longest such play in NFL playoff history.  Completed in less than 11 seconds, it was also the quickest ending to an overtime game in either regular season or playoff history

The 80-yard pass ties John Elway’s franchise record for longest pass in the postseason.


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: Sunstroke on April 03, 2013, 04:13:01 pm

"Who is a better QB, Tebow or Pat White?"  It's like asking "Which smells better, baby shit, or roadkill?"

They both stink...and they both stink.



Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: Dave Gray on April 03, 2013, 04:15:48 pm
Tebow is a better player than Pat White.


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: Landshark on April 03, 2013, 05:02:44 pm
I would go on record to say Pat White is a better QB than Tebow.

Let's see how that flies...

Paging EKnight!!!  Paging EKnight!!!


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: Spider-Dan on April 03, 2013, 06:19:51 pm
[Tebow played really well in one playoff game]
I agree, Tebow had a great game at home against a (heavily injured) top defense.

One week prior to that, Matt Flynn had an even better game (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201201010gnb.htm) at home against a playoff team.  So I'm not sure how much stock I'd put in one game.


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on April 03, 2013, 08:01:39 pm
Tebow and White isn't even close.  Tebow >>> White. 


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: el diablo on April 03, 2013, 11:18:19 pm
Is there any QB that won't get compared to Tebow? Seriously.


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: bsmooth on April 04, 2013, 01:11:58 am
Pat White never completed a pass in the NFL. This is from an old article after Tebow had beat the Steeler's in a playoff win ... reminding us there are also several  things that Pat White will never do regardless of if he ever plays another down behind center again.


Throughout the regular season, the Steelers had only gave up six completions of 30+ yards.  Tim Tebow threw five of them in one game.  More astounding is that Pittsburgh had only given up a total of seven plays, of any kind, of 30 yards or more ALL year.   All five of Tebow's passes, by the way, were completed 15 yards or more beyond the line of scrimmage (so this isn’t a WR on a slip screen padding Tebow’s stats).  Not once all year had the Steelers allowed a 30-yard pass play to be completed on third down.  Tebow’s’ 51-yard completion to Demaryius Thomas was on third down.

Tebow is the first player to have four completions of 30 yards or more in one quarter of a playoff game in the modern era (since 1960) and the first in any game since Warren Moon in 1990.

In the last 10 years, the perennially defensive-minded Steelers had never given up more than two passes of fifty yards in any one game.  Tebow threw three of them.  This gets, somehow, even more impressive when you learn that Pittsburgh had only given up one pass of more than 45 yards all year (and in that case, most of the yards came after the catch)

Further, in the playoffs, no QB since the NFL/AFL merger in 1970 had ever completed three 50+ yard passes in a game.  "And Tebow can't throw," they say?!

Tebow connected four times with Demaryius Thomas for 204 yards.  The Steelers hadn’t allowed a 100-yard receiver since Jordy Nelson did it in last year’s Super Bowl.  Only 103 of those yards were gained after the catch, meaning that Tebow’s throws were significant (especially when you consider that the 80 yard game-winner only traveled 16 yards in the air and 64 after the catch)
 
Not a single passer threw for more than 300 yards against the Steelers this year.  Tebow finished with 316.

On 10 completions (for a still-too-low 47.6 completion percentage) out of 21 attempts, Tebow averaged 15.6 yards per attempt – one of the highest totals in recent NFL history in any game. Doing the math then, you see that Tebow averaged 31.6 yards per completion, which is the highest amount in NFL postseason history.  He is the only QB in the Super Bowl Era to ever throw for 300 yards on only 10 attempts.

Tebow ran for 50 yards and a touchdown as well.  He joins Joe Montana and Aaron Rodgers as the only NFL QBs to ever run for a TD, throw for 300 yards, and not throw any interceptions in a playoff game.

Tim Tebow’s passer rating was 125.6, which was the highest in Broncos postseason history.  Tim Tebow also set the Denver Broncos yardage record for a postseason debut, breaking Elway’s record (by almost 200 yards, so it wasn’t a high bar to set).

Using ESPN's QBR formula for quarterbacks, Tim Tebow scored a 97.3/100, the highest ever recorded for the stat, which was started in 2008.  Unlike the traditional QB rating formula, this statistic rewards QBs for throwing downfield, making plays with their feet, and completing passes in the clutch.  Tebow did all three.

Tim Tebow is only the fifth QB since 1970 to throw for at least 300 yards and two TDs in his postseason debut.

This is the second time in his first 15 games as a starter that Tebow has thrown for 300 yards.  Although this isn’t historically significant, compare this to the three standard-bearers in the NFL for throwing ability, none of whom started as a rookie either:

Tom Brady: two 300-yard passing games
Drew Brees: two 300-yard passing games
Aaron Rodgers: three 300-yard passing games
 

Nobody in their right mind would say that Tim Tebow is on-par with these guys right now.  But these guys all have 6-10 years of playing experience. However, it is perfectly reasonable to compare Tebow to them during their first season of starting (I always hear, "really, you're comparing Tim Tebow to the great Drew Brees?"  Yes, actually, I am.).  And Tebow doesn’t seem to be any better or worse than the game’s top three current passers were when they were inexperienced.

Tebow’s game-winning, overtime touchdown pass of 80 yards was the longest such play in NFL playoff history.  Completed in less than 11 seconds, it was also the quickest ending to an overtime game in either regular season or playoff history

The 80-yard pass ties John Elway’s franchise record for longest pass in the postseason.


If I remember correctly, Tebow dumped off a short pass and Thomas did all the work to turn it into an 80yd touchdown. By calling it an 80 yd td pass, you make it sound as if Tebow nailed a bomb on the defense, when in truth it was a 80 yd catch and run.
Thomas is legitimate #1 receiver threat in this league...still. Tebow cannot beat out Sanchez. I see that victory as more of Thomas's dominance over the Steelers D than Tebow's.


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: 808phan on April 04, 2013, 02:04:56 am
Camp fodder. That's all Pat White will be. The Redskins need a QB to run read-option plays in training camp/preseason while RGIII heals.


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: CF DolFan on April 04, 2013, 08:13:59 am
If I remember correctly, Tebow dumped off a short pass and Thomas did all the work to turn it into an 80yd touchdown. By calling it an 80 yd td pass, you make it sound as if Tebow nailed a bomb on the defense, when in truth it was a 80 yd catch and run.
Thomas is legitimate #1 receiver threat in this league...still. Tebow cannot beat out Sanchez. I see that victory as more of Thomas's dominance over the Steelers D than Tebow's.
So what's your point? Brian said White was better than Tebow and I made the point that Tebow accomplished more than White ever will.


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: Brian Fein on April 04, 2013, 10:23:09 am
I don't care about that, its situational.  If you put Tebow and White in the old school QB challenge, I bet Pat White whips his ass.


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: CF DolFan on April 04, 2013, 10:57:54 am
I don't care about that, its situational.  If you put Tebow and White in the old school QB challenge, I bet Pat White whips his ass.
You don't care about what he does in a game as long as he can win a skills competition off the field?  By that logic Fiedler is better than Marino because he has a higher IQ.


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: Sunstroke on April 04, 2013, 11:05:00 am
You don't care about what he does in a game as long as he can win a skills competition off the field?  By that logic Fiedler is better than Marino because he has a higher IQ.

There is no logic in that statement... QB skills competitions are not IQ tests. It's mostly passing accuracy at different distances.

Fiedler could NEVER beat Marino in a QB skills competition...




Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: Brian Fein on April 04, 2013, 11:05:22 am
Um no.  Marino is better than Fielder because he has better QB skillz.  What does IQ have to do with arm strength and how accurately you can throw a football?

You have to remove the player from the situation where other players can help.  Tebow got paid off one play by Demariyus Thomas.  Not because Tebow is amazing.  And Tebow-ites won't shut up about the one play that THOMAS made that happened to go on Tebow's stat line.

Pat White has had what like 3 pass attempts?  Put him on a team where he's FORCED to be the starter (because the team has no other option) and let him throw the 4 yard slant to a top-10 WR and see how the tables turn.

Put these two guys on a level field and let their QB skills decide who's better.  Not the speed of the guy catching it, or the suicide-blitzing defense.


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: CF DolFan on April 04, 2013, 11:15:07 am
Um no.  Marino is better than Fielder because he has better QB skillz.  What does IQ have to do with arm strength and how accurately you can throw a football?

You have to remove the player from the situation where other players can help.  Tebow got paid off one play by Demariyus Thomas.  Not because Tebow is amazing.  And Tebow-ites won't shut up about the one play that THOMAS made that happened to go on Tebow's stat line.

Pat White has had what like 3 pass attempts?  Put him on a team where he's FORCED to be the starter (because the team has no other option) and let him throw the 4 yard slant to a top-10 WR and see how the tables turn.

Put these two guys on a level field and let their QB skills decide who's better.  Not the speed of the guy catching it, or the suicide-blitzing defense.
Huh? I think you are smoking crack sometimes.  I'm pretty sure that there was more than one play in that game. Hmmm maybe you can't read any longer or something? Lol

Years ago you went down defending Fiedler and now Pat White.  I'm a little concerned


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: Dave Gray on April 04, 2013, 11:20:45 am
C'mon Brian.  I bust Tebow's balls a lot, but he was a starting QB for an amount of time that played below average but made some big plays with his feet and the occasional crunch-time throw to win games.  This includes a playoff win, however little meaning that holds -- it's at least SOMETHING.

Pat White has never completed a pass.

They both suck, but Pat White is on an entirely new level of suckitude.


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: Brian Fein on April 04, 2013, 11:33:49 am
I agree, they both suck. 

I made the statement that Pat White is a better QB.  Meaning he has a better arm than Tebow.  I stand by it. 

The stats speak for themselves.  Tebow is a leader, and probably a great athlete.  But let's not forget what White did in college.  He was a great college athlete as well. 

They are similar style players, but you can't take Pat White's playing career as evidence that he sucks.  Be fair - he rode pine for almost the entire season.  When called upon, he got knocked out of the league about 4 plays deep into his career.  How can you make a determination based on that?


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: bsfins on April 04, 2013, 12:05:31 pm
My strange thoughts on Pat white...I don't know.. :-\ ...I think Pat White still has the potential to play QB in the NFL,the Dolphins didn't play him but a few snaps before he got hurt...I think the "Potential" tag is gone on Tebow,Most in the know don't think he can play Qb,other than a gimmicky built around him offense.

I think Pat's biggest advantage (other than still being a mystery) is he can go somewhere,and try to develop in relative obscurity as a back up.The Tebow Circus ruins that for Tim...


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: Dave Gray on April 04, 2013, 12:32:29 pm
If you're going to point to college stats, it will further hurt your argument.  Tebow is one of the best college QBs ever.  His work is college was amazing.  His skills just didn't translate to the NFL.


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: MikeO on April 04, 2013, 12:34:36 pm
It's no battle of champions they both suck. Debate over! lol


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: Spider-Dan on April 04, 2013, 01:04:02 pm
If you're going to point to college stats, it will further hurt your argument.  Tebow is one of the best college QBs ever.  His work is college was amazing.  His skills just didn't translate to the NFL.
Pat White is the only QB in college history to go 4-0 in bowl games.

When the pressure was on, he consistently rose to the occasion... or whatever other silly "clutch" cliches you might prefer instead.


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: CF DolFan on April 04, 2013, 01:32:56 pm
Pat White is the only QB in college history to go 4-0 in bowl games.

When the pressure was on, he consistently rose to the occasion... or whatever other silly "clutch" cliches you might prefer instead.
So you're saying White had a better college career? No way you're just arguing for the sake of arguing !! Lol


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: Spider-Dan on April 04, 2013, 02:23:03 pm
No, I'm saying they both had good college careers... which is irrelevant because they both suck as pros.


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: Brian Fein on April 04, 2013, 02:34:45 pm
Pat White has thrown 5 balls at the NFL level.  All 5 were incomplete.  He never had more than 2 pass attempts in any one game.

I think its awesome how everyone here is capable of judging a guy's skill set completely based on the first 5 throws of a guy's NFL career.

Wow, you should probably all be scouts or GM's or something.


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: Sunstroke on April 04, 2013, 03:35:33 pm
Pat White has thrown 5 balls at the NFL level.  All 5 were incomplete.  He never had more than 2 pass attempts in any one game.

While I'm firmly entrenched in the "Both guys suck as NFL QB," I think it's pretty easy to say that Tebow sucked less than White. You might be able to explain away his "Only 5 NFL pass attempts" in 2009 as being due to the team being committed to 2nd year QB, Chad Henne, but what is harder to explain is the fact that he signed with the Virginia Destroyers of the UFL (the United Football League, which is roughly "a half notch above lingerie football") in 2011, but was cut before the season started. Read that again for emphasis...he couldn't even make a UFL roster.

While I can dog Tebow for his trainwreck mechanics, his media circus entourage, and even for his stupid-ass posing, he still had significantly more QB talent than Pat White.



Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: stinkyfish on April 15, 2013, 05:11:30 pm
How much better may be in question. But there is no question that Tebow is better than White.


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: MikeO on August 31, 2013, 04:49:45 pm
Pat White just made the Washington Redskins!!!


Title: Re: Pat White is back
Post by: Landshark on August 31, 2013, 07:15:42 pm
Pat White just made the Washington Redskins!!!

Holy draft picks