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TDMMC Forums => Off-Topic Board => Topic started by: CF DolFan on July 16, 2013, 08:58:38 am



Title: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: CF DolFan on July 16, 2013, 08:58:38 am
I was going to post this in the trial thread but I think it deserves it own. The role of the media has changed dramatically in recent years. In fact many times it not only reports the news but becomes the news. It's very hard to find unbiased reporting regardless of where you look. It reminds me of a restaurant wait staff. They seem to stand out more when in actuality all they are doing is their job. Sadly that's hard to find.

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Column: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Rem Rieder, USA TODAY 10:47 p.m. EDT July 14, 2013


The role of the media cannot be ignored in the Zimmerman case.

It's complicated.

Life is packed with nuances and subtleties and shades of gray.

But the news media are often uncomfortable in such murky terrain. They prefer straightforward narratives, with good guys and bad guys, heroes and villains. Those tales are much easier for readers and viewers to relate to.

Which brings us to Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman.

The story of their tragic confrontation on February 26, 2012, in Sanford, Florida, was framed early on. Zimmerman, then 28, was the neighborhood watch captain/"wannabe cop" who racially profiled and ultimately killed Trayvon, an unarmed, hoodie-clad black teenager out on the streets of the gated community Retreat at Twin Lakes simply because he wanted some Skittles.

The storyline quickly took root, amplified by the nearly ubiquitous images of the two: a sweet-looking photo of a several-years-younger Trayvon released by his family, and a mug shot of Zimmerman from a previous arrest in which he looks puffy and downcast. The contrasting images powerfully reinforced the images of the menacing bully and the innocent victim.

Some of the media's major mistakes stemmed from stories that fit neatly into that widely accepted narrative. NBC News edited Zimmerman's comments during a phone call to inaccurately suggest that he volunteered that Trayvon seemed suspicious because he was black. In fact, Zimmerman was responding to a question when he mentioned the teenager's race. The network apologized for the error.

Similarly, ABC News broadcast a story reporting that a police surveillance video showed no evidence that Zimmerman suffered abrasions or bled during the confrontation with Trayvon. Shortly thereafter, it "clarified" the situation, reporting that an enhanced version of the video showed Zimmerman with "an injury to the back of his head."

When it emerged that Zimmerman's mother was Peruvian, some news outlets took to referring to him with the rarely used phrase "white Hispanic," which is kind of like calling President Obama "white black."

Mark O'Mara, Zimmerman's lawyer, was brutal in his post-acquittal comments about the press' treatment of his client. Hard to blame him.


George Zimmerman's defense attorney, Mark O'Mara, said that the news media were the reason that he was painted as a monster and that they took the story and 'ran him over' with it.

After the Sanford police originally declined to prosecute Zimmerman, State Attorney Angela Corey charged him with second-degree murder in the wake of the flurry of news coverage, street protests and a powerful campaign on social media.

But there was much more to the story, as the obvious weakness of the prosecution's case against Zimmerman and the jury's not-guilty verdict make abundantly clear. There was evidence that Zimmerman decidedly got the worst of it during the struggle before he shot Trayvon. Trayvon was an athletic 17-year-old, not necessarily a helpless victim. Zimmerman may well have been acting in self-defense.

This is hardly to suggest that Zimmerman is a candidate for canonization. This is on him. It was his reckless behavior that set this tragedy in motion. If he had stayed in his vehicle as he was told to do by the police, Trayvon Martin would be alive today.

As more details emerged, so, too, did a fuller picture of the events of February 26, 2012. But by then the popular view of what had happened had hardened.

Conservatives see this episode as yet another manifestation of the pervasive bias of that dreaded liberal media. But there's something else at play. Journalists are addicted above all else to the good story. And the saga of the bigoted, frustrated would-be law enforcement officer gunning down the helpless child was too good to check. It's also another example of how groupthink can shape news coverage.

A healthy dose of skepticism should always be part of the journalism process. And in this case there was a particularly strong reason for caution. While some residents of the complex saw some parts of the conflict, only two people knew, really knew, how it went down. And one of them was dead. Under those circumstances, certainty was elusive.

Back in 2006, the nation's media gave huge play to a saga in which three Duke University lacrosse players were charged with raping a stripper at a team party. But the case collapsed, the prosecutor was disbarred and many news organizations looked seriously foolish.

Asked what had gone wrong by journalist Rachel Smolkin for a reconstruction of the episode in American Journalism Review, Daniel Okrent, a former New York Times public editor, responded: "It was too delicious a story."

Sound familiar?

But the Duke lacrosse fiasco also provides some hopeful guidance for the media in dealing with the next Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman story. Well before the case imploded, Stuart Taylor of National Journal and Joe Neff of the News & Observer in Raleigh did topnotch, against-the-grain reporting, poking holes in the prosecution's overwrought version of history.

Let's hope we see much, much more of that the next time the news media encounter a story that's "too delicious."

Rem Rieder writes about media for USA TODAY.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/14/zimmerman-trayvon-martin-nbc-news-column-rieder/2516251/


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: Spider-Dan on July 16, 2013, 11:56:08 am
Perhaps the media should take this advice and lay off of Aaron Hernandez.  He, too, deserves a healthy dose of skepticism, and we haven't heard his side of the story.  Maybe he was acting in self-defense!


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: SCFinfan on July 16, 2013, 12:26:17 pm
Perhaps the media should take this advice and lay off of Aaron Hernandez.  He, too, deserves a healthy dose of skepticism, and we haven't heard his side of the story.  Maybe he was acting in self-defense!

I would be in favor of that. Let the prosecution and the defense do their jobs. Leave them alone while they do it.

I recall someone saying on the radio (I think CBS Sportsradio) that Hernandez's lawyer described his presence w/ the victim in the same car on the night of the murder as a "bad fact." The commentator said "oh, yeah, it totally was! Looks bad for Aaron. Looks really bad!" (Or words to that effect - it's been a while) This was followed up by some rampant speculation on the part of some other commentators about a future story, regarding Tim Tebow or some other Gator player or coach who wanted to mentor Hernandez, etc, because they thought he was going down "a bad path."

I was kinda appalled. Yes, its bad for his defense that he was around during the time of the murder - but does it prove that he murdered the guy? No - my recollection was that there were 3 or 4 people in the car that night. What if one of the other two pulled the trigger/whatever? If that is the case - is there proof of conspiracy? Solicitation? As far as I know at this point (admittedly, haven't been following) there's no other evidence like a gun or something like that which was fired. Has anyone heard anything about gunshot residue being found anywhere? In the vehicle? On the hands of the alleged assailants?

As far as I'm concerned, I wish the press would not prod at "sensational" cases like a child poking a dead squirrel's body. Just leave it alone and carry on, and let the professionals do what they're paid to do!


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: Spider-Dan on July 16, 2013, 12:42:47 pm
In all seriousness, I think this line of complaint is a joke.  Where were these people after the Casey Anthony verdict?  Where were these people after the OJ verdict?

The only reason why people are now Very Concerned with unfair media bias is because they have a political axe to grind on the subject matter of the case.  No one gives a damn about maintaining media objectivity for someone accused of kidnapping and murdering a pretty teenaged white girl, but when the case is politically inconvenient for one side or the other, now the media needs to back off and let the facts speak for themselves?


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: SCFinfan on July 16, 2013, 12:51:36 pm
In all seriousness, I think this line of complaint is a joke.  Where were these people after the Casey Anthony verdict?  Where were these people after the OJ verdict?

The only reason why people are now Very Concerned with unfair media bias is because they have a political axe to grind on the subject matter of the case.  No one gives a damn about maintaining media objectivity for someone accused of kidnapping and murdering a pretty teenaged white girl, but when the case is politically inconvenient for one side or the other, now the media needs to back off and let the facts speak for themselves?

That's a fair response. I would say the remedy to it all would be, as I said, to not cover anything except the facts: "Here's what we've got from the police today" or "Here's the text of the defense's motion" and offer no "expert analysis" which generally turns into rampant dickwad speculation. Yes, I know people crave the speculation, the sensationalism, but it's just a drug for the addicted, frankly.


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: masterfins on July 16, 2013, 12:55:27 pm
There are so many cable news organizations fighting each other so that they can claim to be the first to report something that the result is shoddy journalism.  And since they all misreport facts in the rush to report, there is no consequence; because they both misreport facts on a daily basis and won't call the other out for fear they will get called out.  Anytime there is a mass shooting the early reports are always rife with errors because no body takes the time to confirm they are correct.


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on July 16, 2013, 01:24:39 pm
Perhaps the media should take this advice and lay off of Aaron Hernandez.  He, too, deserves a healthy dose of skepticism, and we haven't heard his side of the story.  Maybe he was acting in self-defense!

Huge difference between the two.

The police did a complete investigation into Zimmerman and concluded that there wasn't enough evidence to arrest him or charge him.  (In general if there is doubt in the minds of the police they will arrest and charge and let the jury sort it out.)

The evidence was then turned over to the DA.  The DA also concluded that there wasn't enough evidence to charge Zimmerman. 

The ONLY reason the case went to trial was politics. 



Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: Spider-Dan on July 16, 2013, 01:54:40 pm
The police did a complete investigation into Zimmerman and concluded that there wasn't enough evidence to arrest him or charge him. 
So if I understand correctly, the police did a "complete investigation" and couldn't find enough evidence to charge him... yet the trial judge saw enough evidence to reject the defense's request for summary dismissal?  How does that work?

The investigation by the police was, frankly, pathetic and half-hearted.  I presume you are referring to the same complete investigation that did a toxicology test on Martin (but not Zimmerman) and investigated the criminal history of Martin (but not Zimmerman), are you not?


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on July 16, 2013, 02:04:56 pm
So if I understand correctly, the police did a "complete investigation" and couldn't find enough evidence to charge him... yet the trial judge saw enough evidence to reject the defense's request for summary dismissal?  How does that work?



Judges are elected in Florida.  If the judge had accepted the request for summary dismissal she would be out of a job.


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The investigation by the police was, frankly, pathetic and half-hearted.  I presume you are referring to the same complete investigation that did a toxicology test on Martin (but not Zimmerman) and investigated the criminal history of Martin (but not Zimmerman), are you not?


You need probable cause to do a toxicology test on someone who is living.  A toxicology report comes standard with an autopsy.

Both of them had their criminal history ran.

Justice has prevailed.  This isn't Roodey King as much as you and many want it to be, it just ain't. 


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: Phishfan on July 16, 2013, 02:07:46 pm
Justice has prevailed.  This isn't Roodey King as much as you and many want it to be, it just ain't. 


To keep it on par with the comparisons that are actually being made you should have said Emmett Till.

Modified for the glaring mistake I made in the name.


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on July 16, 2013, 02:12:25 pm
To keep it on par with the comparisons that are actually being made you should have said Edmund Till.

Fair enough. 


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: Spider-Dan on July 16, 2013, 02:19:25 pm
Judges are elected in Florida.  If the judge had accepted the request for summary dismissal she would be out of a job.
Are district attorneys not elected in Florida?  Because he didn't seem to be too worried about it.

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You need probable cause to do a toxicology test on someone who is living.
"I just shot that guy in the chest" sounds like probable cause to me.  Particularly after a 911 call in which he refers to him as an "asshole" and a "fucking punk" when Martin had yet to do anything wrong.

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Both of them had their criminal history ran.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-watch-shooting-trayvon-martin-probe-reveals-questionable/story?id=15907136

"Lee publically admitted that officers accepted Zimmerman's word at the scene that he had no police record.

Two days later during a meeting with Trayvon's father Tracy Martin, an officer told the father that Zimmerman's record was 'squeaky clean.'"


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: CF DolFan on July 16, 2013, 02:24:04 pm
As Alan Dershowitz said the prosecutors withheld evidence showing Zimmerman's innocence and that's why he was arrested. This was in response to a crazy trial by media.  This will all come out as I'm fairly certain they are going after them.


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: Phishfan on July 16, 2013, 02:44:01 pm
I want to point out a couple inaccuracies. The judge did not grant a summary dismissal because in such cases the prosecution gets the benefit of the doubt in every instance. Since a juror said they went into deliberations split 3 for aquittal, 2 for manslaughter, & 1 for 2nd degree I expect the judge was correct. In the end, after discussions they all agreed on aquittal.

Now, as for Zimmerman's record. he was arrested and went through pre-trial diversion. He may have actually been mistaken more than actually lieing. When entering that program it is common for the person to be informed their record will be clean afterwards. This is an outright lie and I'm not sure why they tell you that. You actually have to go through the process of expungement separately. he may have thought he had a clean record at the time. I don't think this is any excuse for the police not doing their own check though.


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on July 16, 2013, 02:45:20 pm

"I just shot that guy in the chest" sounds like probable cause to me. 

To run a toxicology report?  You don't understand PC in the least. That is not PC that one is under the influence of drugs.    

Red eyes, slurred voice, unable to walk a straight line, etc.  

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Are district attorneys not elected in Florida?  Because he didn't seem to be too worried about it.


Wouldn't be surprised in the least if he is challenged, b/c of his reluctance.  Also the DA did eventually cave in to political pressure. 


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: Phishfan on July 16, 2013, 03:24:30 pm
^^^ He did not seek re-election and left office in Januray.


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: Spider-Dan on July 16, 2013, 03:32:58 pm
To run a toxicology report?  You don't understand PC in the least. That is not PC that one is under the influence of drugs.  

Red eyes, slurred voice, unable to walk a straight line, etc.
As far as I can tell, in Florida, an autopsy report requires consent (http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/872.04) from a health care surrogate.  As I read the statute, if an appropriate health care surrogate cannot be determined, an autopsy may be performed sans consent not less than 48 hours after death.  Martin's father called in a Missing Persons report and was informed of his death the morning after the shooting.

Wouldn't that mean that the police asked for consent to perform an autopsy (and toxicology report) on Martin?  If so, what was their cause for doing so?  And why did they not ask for the same consent from Zimmerman?

Half-hearted investigation is too generous a description.

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Wouldn't be surprised in the least if he is challenged, b/c of his reluctance.  Also the DA did eventually cave in to political pressure.
He determined that there was not enough evidence to even charge Zimmerman, yet half the jury went into deliberation believing there was enough evidence to convict him.  Doesn't seem like the DA was particularly motivated to pursue (or even fully investigate) that case.


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: pondwater on July 16, 2013, 04:07:32 pm
The majority of the media act as the "watchdogs of the oppressed" and are biased in that direction. The media always uses people who are affected by emotion rather than logic for their own agenda. Anyone who thinks that the verdict was wrong, ask yourself this. Do you personally know more about the facts of this case than the Sanford PD, original district attorney, and the jury? If you answer yes, you are lying to yourself. If you answer no, you now know that you have been emotionally hijacked or have racial issues. Either way, the case is over and the jury has spoken. Legally, no crime has been committed by George Zimmerman


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: CF DolFan on July 16, 2013, 04:46:21 pm
The result of what three jurors' initial reaction doesn't qualify whether something is illegal or not. 12 people let Casey Anthony walk and besides most of America, the judge thought it was pretty cut and dry.

Long time sequestered juries are usually nuts and see what most people don't. ... IE OJ Simpson and Casey Anthony.


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: masterfins on July 16, 2013, 05:20:51 pm

"Lee publically admitted that officers accepted Zimmerman's word at the scene that he had no police record.

Two days later during a meeting with Trayvon's father Tracy Martin, an officer told the father that Zimmerman's record was 'squeaky clean.'"


If you want to bring up Zimmerman's "police record" tell the whole story.  Zimmerman, when he was 21, was in a bar when a friend was being accused of serving a minor alcohol by a liquor control enforcement officer.  Zimmerman (who I presume had probably been drinking) was belligerent and the LCE officer tried to lead Zimmerman away and Zimmerman pushed him.  So, Zimmerman was arrested.  What you also fail to mention is that this charge was expunged from Zimmerman's record after completing an alcohol awareness course.  Having the record expunged gives Zimmerman the right to say he doesn't have a record.  And since it was expunged I doubt it would have shown up on any search by the Sanford PD.


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: Spider-Dan on July 16, 2013, 05:47:42 pm
Anyone who thinks that the verdict was wrong, ask yourself this. Do you personally know more about the facts of this case than the Los Angeles PD, original district attorney, and the jury? If you answer yes, you are lying to yourself. If you answer no, you now know that you have been emotionally hijacked or have racial issues. Either way, the case is over and the jury has spoken. Legally, no crime has been committed by OJ Simpson
Equally true as everything you just said.


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: Spider-Dan on July 16, 2013, 06:01:06 pm
What you also fail to mention is that this charge was expunged from Zimmerman's record after completing an alcohol awareness course.
If it was expunged, then you would not be able to find it in the records.  Q.E.D.

The charge was waived after Zimmerman agreed to undergo an alcohol awareness course.  The arrest and charges were not expunged from his record.

Furthermore, to tell the whole story you should probably also mention the restraining orders (for domestic violence) on Zimmerman and his ex-girlfriend from 2005.

So we have someone who has been previously arrested for violent, disorderly conduct while drinking, and has had a restraining order granted against him on domestic violence grounds.  No need to check him for BAC, though.  He seems legit.


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: Spider-Dan on July 16, 2013, 06:05:31 pm
The result of what three jurors' initial reaction doesn't qualify whether something is illegal or not.
If you have half the jury leaning towards conviction going into deliberation, the idea that the evidence was too flimsy to even charge him is completely untenable.


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: pondwater on July 16, 2013, 06:30:01 pm
So we have someone who has been previously suspended from school THREE times, kicked out of his house by his mother, bragging about fighting different people and drug use.  No need to check him for being a thug, though.  He seems legit.

Equally true as everything you just said.

Ditto, equally true as everything you just said.

I like word games


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: Spider-Dan on July 16, 2013, 07:44:03 pm
Good point!  If Martin had just killed someone and the police had investigated him with any sort of serious diligence, I would have expected him to be (at a very minimum) arrested, and almost certainly charged with a crime.

Instead of, you know, simply taking his word that he's a Good Guy and letting him wander around a police station unescorted for a few hours.


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: masterfins on July 16, 2013, 07:58:52 pm
If it was expunged, then you would not be able to find it in the records.  Q.E.D.

The charge was waived after Zimmerman agreed to undergo an alcohol awareness course.  The arrest and charges were not expunged from his record.

Furthermore, to tell the whole story you should probably also mention the restraining orders (for domestic violence) on Zimmerman and his ex-girlfriend from 2005.

So we have someone who has been previously arrested for violent, disorderly conduct while drinking, and has had a restraining order granted against him on domestic violence grounds.  No need to check him for BAC, though.  He seems legit.

The article I read said it was expunged, however either way there is not a conviction on his record.  So if a police officer asked him whether he had a criminal record he was completely accurate in saying no.  Regarding his ex-girlfriend, he was not arrested, nor charged, with domestic violence; and they EACH had restraining orders granted against each other.  He really must have gotten good at hiding his violent criminal past though since he avoided any other trouble for (7) years.  ::)  Oh wait, I'm wrong he was charged with speeding in 2006.


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: pondwater on July 17, 2013, 03:04:41 pm
Good point!  If Martin had just killed someone and the police had investigated him with any sort of serious diligence, I would have expected him to be (at a very minimum) arrested, and almost certainly charged with a crime.

Instead of, you know, simply taking his word that he's a Good Guy and letting him wander around a police station unescorted for a few hours.

You have said this a few times. Why on earth would you care if Zimmerman wandered around a police station? At the time he was not charged with a crime. At the time there was no direct evidence that he committed a crime. So it would stand to reason that the police wouldn't have him locked up. And, by the way. Zimmerman was and is not guilty


Title: Re: Media got Zimmerman story wrong from start
Post by: Spider-Dan on July 17, 2013, 03:18:51 pm
That's mighty courteous treatment for a murder suspect.

Unless you're saying that the Sanford PD already considered the investigation closed?