Title: Judge completely ignores doctrine of separation of church and state. Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on August 12, 2013, 07:50:52 am http://news.yahoo.com/tenn-judge-changes-infants-name-messiah-215423538.html
You have got to be kidding me. Quote saying the religious name was earned by one person and "that one person is Jesus Christ." That is not a decision for the court. Nor if someone wanted to name their child Allah or Zeus. Title: Re: Judge completely ignores doctrine of separation of church and state. Post by: CF DolFan on August 12, 2013, 08:03:04 am Mother and father were in court because they couldn't agree on names. I'm betting there is more to to the story but even if not, the judge probably did the kid a favor in the long run. We will see if it gets overturned. If it wasn't legit it will.
I do not get the crazy name thing and never really have. It's like imposing a life sentence on your kid before they have even done anything wrong. Title: Re: Judge completely ignores doctrine of separation of church and state. Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on August 12, 2013, 08:09:36 am Mother and father were in court because they couldn't agree on names. I'm betting there is more to to the story but even if not, the judge probably did the kid a favor in the long run. We will see if it gets overturned. If it wasn't legit it will. I do not get the crazy name thing and never really have. It's like imposing a life sentence on your kid before they have even done anything wrong. Couldn't agree on the last name. The first name, was not at issue. And even if they were the judge's reasoning is a clear violation of the first amendment. If the only reason she cited was the kid might get picked on, she might get away with "best interests of the child", but proclaiming who is and who is not the messiah is the the role of the courts. This is fundamental Christians abusing power and nothing less. Title: Re: Judge completely ignores doctrine of separation of church and state. Post by: Sunstroke on August 12, 2013, 08:27:28 am The article noted that "Messiah" was the 4th fastest rising baby name...so should we expect the judge to be changing a lot of other baby's names? Gotta agree with Hoodie (in spirit, if not in typo), the judge has no right whatsoever to make that call. Title: Re: Judge completely ignores doctrine of separation of church and state. Post by: Brian Fein on August 12, 2013, 09:57:45 am ^^ Agree with Sunstroke. Based on the reasoning, if the judge changes one baby's name, then all people named "Messiah" in the entire USA need their names changed as well. Immediately.
Title: Re: Judge completely ignores doctrine of separation of church and state. Post by: Phishfan on August 12, 2013, 10:19:01 am The article noted that "Messiah" was the 4th fastest rising baby name...so should we expect the judge to be changing a lot of other baby's names? Given that that ranking system marks it as the 387th most popular name for last year, I doubt a lot of people have it. Title: Re: Judge completely ignores doctrine of separation of church and state. Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on August 12, 2013, 10:37:01 am Given that that ranking system marks it as the 387th most popular name for last year, I doubt a lot of people have it. I guess it depends on whether you consider over 800 a lot or not. http://www.ourbabynamer.com/Messiah-name-popularity.html But that doesn't matter even if it is only one, it is not up to the courts to decided who the Messiah is. Title: Re: Judge completely ignores doctrine of separation of church and state. Post by: Brian Fein on August 12, 2013, 10:58:54 am ^^ Agree with your point there. If it was a Jewish judge, do you think the verdict would have been different?
Title: Re: Judge completely ignores doctrine of separation of church and state. Post by: CF DolFan on August 12, 2013, 11:06:01 am Jews are still waiting for "the" messiah so it is possible... but for different reasons.
Title: Re: Judge completely ignores doctrine of separation of church and state. Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on August 12, 2013, 11:11:06 am ^^ Agree with your point there. If it was a Jewish judge, do you think the verdict would have been different? I think if it was anyone but a fundamentalist it would be different. Could an off the wall extremist Hasidic Jew make the same ruling? Maybe. Would a mainstream Christian who respects the constitution as being the ruling authority and not the bible in our courtrooms? then it is very doubtful that very many Christians would make this ruling. Title: Re: Judge completely ignores doctrine of separation of church and state. Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on August 12, 2013, 11:13:31 am Jews are still waiting for "the" messiah so it is possible... but for different reasons. I could see an extremist Rabbi, refusing to participate the child's bris (but that is an entirely different matter). Jewish judge making this type of ruling, not so much. Title: Re: Judge completely ignores doctrine of separation of church and state. Post by: Landshark on August 12, 2013, 02:06:29 pm I do not get the crazy name thing and never really have. It's like imposing a life sentence on your kid before they have even done anything wrong. This is true. Just ask Adolf Hitler Campbell Title: Re: Judge completely ignores doctrine of separation of church and state. Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on August 12, 2013, 02:37:05 pm This is true. Just ask Adolf Hitler Campbell First off, is Messiah an offensive name? Maybe a bit presumptuous if the mom thinks that the kid is the Messiah, however, I am willing to bet it is no different than name a kid Jesus or Muhammad or Mary. A Catholic who names their child Mary, isn't typically making a claim their daughter is going to have a virgin birth, just that they wish to honor a women they believe did. If I met someone named Messiah I would think no differently of them than I do someone named Jesus. That his parents are honoring their religion, not claiming a new one. The name Adolf Hitler is objectively offensive. And no doubt going to cause the child trouble. Nevertheless, despite the offensive name, Adolf Hitler Campbell did not have his name ordered to be changed by the court. The parents did lose custody b/c of physical abuse. But that had nothing to do with the name. Regardless it is not the court's role to determine who is and who is not the messiah. Title: Re: Judge completely ignores doctrine of separation of church and state. Post by: CF DolFan on August 12, 2013, 04:02:32 pm I could see an extremist Rabbi, refusing to participate the child's bris (but that is an entirely different matter). Jewish judge making this type of ruling, not so much. I only said it's possible. I don't think many Christian judges would do this either and yes ... I still believe there is more to the story but I could be wrong. Title: Re: Judge completely ignores doctrine of separation of church and state. Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on August 12, 2013, 04:23:10 pm I only said it's possible. I don't think many Christian judges would do this either and yes ... I still believe there is more to the story but I could be wrong. Yes, what I am about to say is stereotyping, but I also believe it is true. A Jewish judge (or Muslim or other minority) is far far less likely to make a decision in which the courts are making religious rules, than a Christian. For a very simple reason, they have much to lose if our society becomes less secular and more of a theocracy. As that theocracy will no doubt be Christian not Jewish. Although I think very few Christian judges agreeing with this ruling. I see zero non-Christians. Title: Re: Judge completely ignores doctrine of separation of church and state. Post by: bsmooth on August 12, 2013, 09:26:45 pm She would have had a valid reason if she stuck with the premise that a strange name makes it harder on children. However, since she used her religious belief to render a decision, that was not asked for, this is not good law.
Title: Re: Judge completely ignores doctrine of separation of church and state. Post by: Landshark on August 12, 2013, 10:04:24 pm First off, is Messiah an offensive name? Maybe a bit presumptuous if the mom thinks that the kid is the Messiah, however, I am willing to bet it is no different than name a kid Jesus or Muhammad or Mary. A Catholic who names their child Mary, isn't typically making a claim their daughter is going to have a virgin birth, just that they wish to honor a women they believe did. If I met someone named Messiah I would think no differently of them than I do someone named Jesus. That his parents are honoring their religion, not claiming a new one. The name Adolf Hitler is objectively offensive. And no doubt going to cause the child trouble. I'll give it that much that Messiah is not an offensive name. But like CF thinks, and I concur, it is a crazy name for a kid that will impose a life sentence on them that they don't deserve. And so will Adolf Hitler Campbell. Title: Re: Judge completely ignores doctrine of separation of church and state. Post by: Dave Gray on August 13, 2013, 05:45:12 pm I'll give it that much that Messiah is not an offensive name. But like CF thinks, and I concur, it is a crazy name for a kid that will impose a life sentence on them that they don't deserve. And so will Adolf Hitler Campbell. I don't think there's anything to support this. The kid will likely be a fuck-up, but not because of his name -- because he has bad parents. In fact, I read a book that had a whole chapter talking about how your name is not related to your success in any way, except for correlation. If your name is Laquita Ray-Ray Jones or Shannon Michelle Jones, it will have statistically no effect on your quality of life, when controlled for other factors, like class. It's just easier for the government not to get involved into what people name their kids, also. Title: Re: Judge completely ignores doctrine of separation of church and state. Post by: mecadonzilla on August 13, 2013, 11:17:52 pm I wonder what this judge would think of former Providence Friar basketball player God Shammgod?
Title: Re: Judge completely ignores doctrine of separation of church and state. Post by: mboss on August 14, 2013, 12:28:07 am This past year, and this is not a joke, my daughter was in a class with a Messiah, Christian and Jesus (Latin version).
I'm sure the judge will be hearing from the FFRF at the very least. Title: Re: Judge completely ignores doctrine of separation of church and state. Post by: Landshark on August 14, 2013, 11:04:27 am I wonder what this judge would think of former Providence Friar basketball player God Shammgod? Or former FAMU basketball player Scientific Mapp. |