The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Seems as though Wallace is ready to move on:
Dolphins’ Mike Wallace is ready to move on (http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/09/10/3616859/dolphins-mike-wallace-is-ready.html)

This is good to see. I think he was mad at himself for not performing at a hi-level when he thought he should have, especially when he commented pre-game about getting some sleep and Hayden should too.

I think he tried to keep it in with the "Ask Coach" comments, but it seemed to snowball with everyone hounding him.

Now as for Randy Starks giving everyone the "bird"...........that's another story.

Randy Starks came out yesterday and said almost the exact same thing via Twitter...

"If you didn't know... I'm not worried about it I'm just tryin to help my team be successful!!!"
"I never said anything about being upset at the coaches or organization"
"I'm over the contract issues....."
"Joking with my teammates about getting a sack... Could have used different gesture but its over now... Moving on!!! Next up COLTS"

I'll bet both were called into private meetings in Coach Philbin's office and warned never to pull such stunts again.

Starks might be telling the truth or he might have figured out he needed a better cover story.  I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he was flipping off his team mates. 

Wallace on the other hand, what he said was pretty clear and unambiguous, he is now changing his story as damage control.     

Thankfully, Wallace won't have to face Joe Haden this week...I expect that he will play a much larger role in the offense against Indy.

He gets Vonta Davis this week!! Wallace will have a career day!

^^^ Hard to argue with that. The difference between Joe Haden and Vontae Davis is equal to the difference between a new Ferrari and a Hyundai with bald tires.

Mike Wallace cashed in on an amazing season, 3 seasons ago. In his past 25 games, he's averaging less than 50 yards per game and has 11 TDs (and that's with a MUCH better QB throwing him the ball), and he's been as much of a head case since he got to Miami as that certain other WR who was traded and has had 17 TDs and nearly a 90 ypg average during that same time.

Good for him to get a massive contract- but anyone who thinks he's an upgrade over Marshall on or off the field is in for a long year. -EK

The day Mike Wallace gets arrested once (let alone multiple times like Marshall) let me know. Until then that comparison off "off the field headcase" is totally laughable (but this is coming from the guy who said Tebow was a Top 10 QB )

Welcome back EK. Love your new Avatar. It's definitely you.  >:D

I don't recall Marshall being arrested "multiple times" as a Dolphin. I DO recall him (and Reggie) looking pretty good this weekend while Miami's spectacular duo of Miller and Wallace combined for less than 20 yards and no TDs.


BTW, Miller?


How's that working out so far? Ah...nice to be back! -EK

It's one game....and the Dolphins won!!  ::)

The resident Jet-lover, Dolphins troll is back! Yes everyone is so happy you returned. How is that Tebow and Mark Sanchez love going these days....oh wait. Nevermind! LMFAO!!

Well this site will be going to shit now

Likely the same way that Lamar Miller Mike Wallace love is for you, sir. Can we NOT do this again all year. You'll notice I haven't breathed a word about anything related to Miami's QB, and have no desire to unless it becomes a problem for the team, and someelse raises it as a topic. I will not spend another season bantering with you, Mike. Maybe Miller and Wallace will turn out to be Pro Bowlers, and have awesome years. After one week- which is all we can go on right now- it's their entire body of work this season, they aren't producing. What we CAN say about Wallace I've already pointed out- he hasn't been producing for quite a while now. 25 games at 51 yards per game is supposed to be an elite caliber receiver? Not so much. Bringing up Tebow/Sanchez/your obsession with me and the Jets isn't going to change the fact that those two had a brutal first game, and I won't be baited into mudslinging with you because you have nothing else to say. -EK

Good analogy 

Saying that Wallace needs to put up numbers in order to be productive is missing the point.  If Hartline and Gibson explode in productivity, and Tannehill's numbers improve as well, but Wallace doesn't put up much stats, then he did his job.

Wallace's job is to clear out the middle of the field for the rest of the receiving corps.  He really only needs to make as many catches/TDs as it takes to maintain his effectiveness in that role (so, more than The Ginn Family did).  Much like Vince Wilfork, if all Wallace does is draw double teams all day, then his stats don't really matter: he is earning his paycheck.

Exactly. Who cares who is getting the "numbers" as long as the passing game is going well and the team is winning!!

Apparently HE does or he wouldn't have cried about it and then had to backpedal, which is what this whole thread is about.

You're both missing my point though- you don't pay a receiver $60 million to be a decoy. You pay that kind of money to produce- which he hasn't done in quite a while (how does know one see this??). If at the end of the year, Wallace has between 750-800 yards receiving, and Hartline finishes as a 1000 yard guy, where's the return on investment? Hartline did that last year WITHOUT Wallace, so how's the team improved? If you get the same production from Wallace that you did from Bess last year (778 yards) for $45 million more dollars- money that clearly could have been better spent on O-line- no one is going to look at the Wallace signing as a success. 15-50 yards per game can't possibly be what Miami was hoping for. -EK

You pay him big bucks because he improves the offense and to help win games. Which Miami won this week and the offense looked drastically better than in years past. Mission Accomplished!


Yeah because Bess drew double teams all game long, had 4.4 speed, and had the ability to stretch a defense which opens up other WR's and TE's in the passing game. IF you can't see the difference between Wallace and Bess then your clueless on this issue!

If opponents recklessly decide to double or triple cover Wallace all game, every game, then the offense wins big (even though Wallace won't get the numbers).

This is one of those situations where you have to look at the bigger picture (preferably coaches all-22 footage).

There's also the very real issue of getting in sync with Tannehill. That clearly hasn't happened yet and if Wallace had caught one of the bombs thrown to him (not placing blame!), we wouldn't be having this discussion.

All that said, the Dolphins may well have overpaid for Wallace. He's only 27 and his last year with Pittsburgh wasn't great. If you don't think he produced in 2010 and 2011, though, you are dead wrong. He was one of the very best receivers in the league both years.

If what we get is "2012 Wallace", $10+ million a year is way too much. If what we get is "2010/2011 Wallace", it's a steal.

Regardless, the team needed exactly what he brings to the table (great speed and "home run potential"). Hard to fault management for paying whatever they needed to in order to get him.

Of course I see the difference between the two, but you're purposefully dodging my point- they won games last year and Hartline was a 1000 yard receiver WITHOUT needing Wallace there. There's no way around those things. Hanging your hat on a week 1 victory over a team that went 5-11 the previous year isn't very convincing of Wallace's worth. They didn't win because of Wallace; I'm not entirely sure they didn't win in spite of him missing at least one very long pass.

FYO- look back at the 2nd half of 2011. The last 8 games were a drastic drop off of his previous production. He hasn't been the same player since. I don't know what happened there, but the numbers don't lie. He had ~800 receiving yards and 5 TDs in the first half of that year, and ~400 and 2 TDs in the second half. -EK

They didn't win games last year because of the passing game limitation.  They won in spite of them.

By the way, good to see you back here.

Wallace will be fine.  Hartline will start murdering defenses when they put (a) their best CB on Wallace and (b) keep double-teaming him.  The only reason they can double him is because we don't have a viable TE threat. 

Once teams start trying to shut Hartline down too, Wallace will open up. 

He will beat guys just by speed alone.  The only thing left is for Tannehill to get the ball out there for him.

 
So a 1200 yard 8 TD season like he had in 2011 on an offense that had other weapons and spread the ball around is a bad year? That's laughable your knocking him for having a year like that

Nice way to ignore my point. If you have 800 yards and 5 TDs in the first 8 games a sputter to a finish- which you continue for a full season afterward- there's a problem there. -EK

Its a 16 game season....all the games count! All the stats count! Cherry picking half the seasons stats to come with a stupid point is silly.

Wallace had a 1200 yard season with 8 TD's ...that isn't sputtering to anything. It's a great  season!

It's a great half a season. His past 25 games have not been very good. 25 games is more than a season. 25>16. You get that right? The guy had an amazing year and a half, and the following year and a half he's been below pedestrian. -EK

Cherry picking stats again. That's why you can't be taken seriously around here. He had a 1200 yard season with 8 TD's. That's a good season, not half a season...FULL SEASON. Trying to divide the stats in half to go out of your way to knock him is a joke. In 2011 he had a good season with 1200 yards and 8 TD's. Debate over!

Exactly.  (hopefully)

No one is cherry picking. He's been a 50 yard per game guy for his last 25 games. He was a barely above average WR last year. You don't pay a guy $60 million based on something he hasn't produced in nearly two years. -EK

I mean, yeah, Adrian Peterson ran for almost 2100 yards last year, but what about weeks 1, 2, 3, 5, and 6, where he ran for less than 90 yards each game?  He ran for only 60 yards in a loss against the Colts.

Not sure why he won MVP when nearly a third of his games were decidedly below average...

You mean aside from the fact that his coaches purposely limited his workload because his knee was completely destroyed?

It's one thing for a player to start slow or have a bad game or two. Wallace has had a string of bad games that started in the second half of 2011 and then continued all of last year. That's no longer a game or two- it's a trend, and if it was any player in the league NOT a Dolphin, I feel like your perspective would be different. Out of curiosity, do you feel Dwayne Bowe is a nearly $60 million dollar guy? -EK

Oh, are we taking excuses for poor performances now?  Like "PIT's offense stopped targeting Wallace, arguably for reasons related to his contract"?

The stats are what they are.  You can cherry pick any player's stats and "but how many sacks did he have in weeks 3-9?"  They play 16 games for a reason.

No one is denying that. 16 games last year he was not good. Debate that. What? Nothing?

My point is that the poor production didn't just start out of nowhere last year. It was a problem that began halfway through 2011 and continued all of last year. Nothing is being cherry picked there. -EK

OK, let's clarify something on this "Poor Production" nonsense. Last year Wallace still scored 8 TD's and had over 800 yards after missing all of camp...that is a"down year" for him....but NOT poor production at all for an NFL WR. Not even close

Wallace had monster 2010 and 2011 seasons. Coming off those 2 years last year he had a "down year" FOR HIM...but wasn't poor by any means. That is foolish nonsense talk.

34th in the league in receiving yards; 34th in receptions; 15th in TDs. That's not poor production for a wide out who received that kind of money? You can put whatever soon you want on it- he hasn't been the same guy for quite a while now. Money poorly spent. -EK

34th in the league in receiving yards; 34th in receptions; 15th in TDs.

Makes him a very good but not elite receiver. 

However, as the fourth highest paid WR in the league should be elite, not just very good. 

That was just 1 year and Miami is paying for the collective 2010, 2011, and 2012 players production in total. Not just buying based off one years stats. Thought was kinda obvious, guess not ::)

^^this.

@MikeO- they're paying for a player who got worse with each of the past three years that you mentioned. Player has an amazing year THREE YEARS AGO, then steadily declines production with each year, so you give him absurd money anyway. Got it. Why didn't I think of that? -EK

he was amazing 3 years ago and 2 years ago, and had a down year "FOR HIM" last year which was still good.  But whatever, he's signed, he's here now. He isn't going anywhere. Learn to live with it!

IF the Dolphins have 10 wins instead of 7, that's 60 million well spent.

Absolutely agree- that IS why they brought him there. If they finish 7-9 or even 8-8, then not so much. I don't personally believe they win 10 games, but it's early. While they could win one or two of the next 4, I wouldn't be surprised to see them at 1-4 heading into the bye. Not a lot of 10 win season after a start like that. 3 of those 4 teams were playoff teams last year, and the 4th...I just don't see Miami beating the Saints. They can't cover a pretty good TE in Cleveland, which leads me to believe an elite one like Graham is going to have a field day. Let's see how the season plays out. Right now, they're a middle of the pack team, with all of the next four opponents evaluated much higher than them in every power ranking I've seen. I also don't believe that Wallace can keep his mouth shut for the rest of the year. Let's not forget this is the SECOND time he's been in the press as a Dolphin for not keeping his mouth shut, and he's only been a Phin for a few months.

I think I may not be explaining myself cleary, since only Hoodie seems to get my point. He's the 4th highest paid player in the league at his position, but he's even in his "amazing" year of 2011, he wasn't even a top 10 performer- and that was with a QB significantly better than RT. I don't have any concept of how a guy gets more money than Andre Johnson, Marshall, Vincent Jackson, Victor Cruz, Roddy White, Wes Welker, etc. when he hasn't done anything in three years to warrant that kind of payday. -EK

Yep, if the team wins and he opens things up for Hartline, Gibson, and Clay to have BIG years and the offense is improved its money well spent.

And let's also clear this up because the $60 mill number is total BS as he won't see that number. Mike Wallace is on a 3-year $37 million deal. After that its a year-year team option deal in reality since cutting him would have a very very minor cap hit. So after year 3 Miami can cut him if they want to and have a very minimal cap hit because of the way the contract was structured. No player sees the back-end money of their deals. They are either cut or the deals are restructured.  Wallace got a 3 year $37 mill deal, that's his contract!

Last year, everyone complained that the Dolphins don't have a #1 WR and no deep threat and no weapons for Tannehill.

They went out and got Mike Wallace.  They gave him a salary that he accepted.  If they didn't give it to him he would have gone elsewhere and got it.

Now you are complaining that they overpaid for him.

Literally, Jeff Ireland can not win.  Had they said "you're only worth 40 million" and let him sign with Greeen Bay or ANYWHERE else (see Vontae Leach), you'd all be whining about how the WR position was unaddressed in the offseason and how Ireland missed on Wallace.

Damn it, people.  Quit bitching about EVERYTHING!

Let's leave RT out of this discussion for now. That's a different discussion and one that almost everyone here disagrees with you on to some degree.

Because he just got his big payday. Next year someone will be making more then Wallace and probably one or more of these guys will be making more than Wallace in the next 5 years. It's all about timing. No one actually believes that Joe Flacco is the best QB in the league right now do they?

Edit: According to the following site, Marshall, Roddy White and Andre Johnson's base salary for 2013 is higher than Wallace' anyway. http://www.spotrac.com/rankings/nfl/wide-receiver/

Isn't that what this site is about?  To bitch and complain when the Dolphins make a disastrous move.  They've made a lot of those over the years but it's too early to tell if this is one of them.

Good to see EK back and look forward to the EK/Mike O pissing contests that are sure to come.

^^ wrong.  We want fewer MikeO/EK pissing matches.  Its bad for the site.  Please stop instigating.

The site is for discussion, not incessant bitching and compaining.  Give praise and credit where its due.  If you want to bitch constantly and complain about everything (founded or not) please stick to the Anti-Fins section (or perhaps another forum more suited for such activity).

In all honesty I think EK has a right to question Wallace. I don't think Lil B was a fan of the move either as well a couple more people. The guy did statistically drop for the last couple of years but we paid him as if he didn't.

With that said I think he was the best option available and has made our team better just by being on the field. I'm happy we are at least trying and couldn't care less about overpaying as long as we still have money for other needs.  (similarly I think that's why we should have gone after Long a bit harder) Will he pan out in the long run? Who knows? We will have to wait for the answer to that. 

In the question of whether he was overpaid, it's crucial to look at the comparables. There aren't a lot, but Percy Harvin signed for almost the same (6 years, $67 million, $25.5 million guaranteed).

Also Wallace turned down MORE money from Minnesota to sign with Miami. He took less to come here

Price is dictated by the market and what other teams are willing to pay.  Wallace got what the market dictates.

Did Wallace underperform relative to his salary level in Week 1?  I'd say yes.  I bet he'd also say yes.  But its week 1, people.

Some of you are just not happy unless you are complaining about something.  If the Dolphins went 15-1 and won the Super Bowl, you'd complain about the one loss.

Agree 100%!! Some people on this site just hate everything. Hate every FA move, hate every draft pick, hate the QB. Complain after wins, want everyone fired after a loss. Would rather be right and the team lose to prove a silly point than be wrong and the team win and be successful. Just some miserable people on this site who are never happy with anything. They aren't here to "seriously" talk about the Fins but more to get a rise out of people and carry on with the drama. And some people will never change.

If you aren't a fan or have not one thing positive to say go to the Anti-Fins forum and post and live there or leave!NOT EVERYTHING WITH THIS TEAM IS AWFUL/SUCKS/BAD!  The same ole tired "gimmick/act" some people have is tired and played out.

"Shocking" statement coming from someone who regularly puts down Dolphins players, coaches, GM, and Owner.  ::)  But, then again you are always right, and anyone who has a different viewpoint is living in a bubble.

Absolutely! Mike had plenty of negativity directed toward Henne and Marshall, but God forbid someone says something about one of "his guys."

FWIW, I LOVED the Reggie Bush acquisition, the Ellerbee signing, the attempt to get a legit TE and the cutting of Karlos Dansby. Why do I support that last one? Because just like Wallace, Dansby got way overpaid and shot off at the mouth ("I'm the best linebacker in football"; "We're goin to the Super Bowl this year, guaranteed!"). And of course, when I pointed out that he should shut up and play, MikeO had a fit, because Dansby was one of "his guys."

We get it MikeO- only you are allowed to criticize Miami players that you think stink, and you've been clamoring for years to have Wallace, so OF COURSE you're too proud to now admit that maybe he's not really as good as what you hoped/thought. In two years he'll be gone like Marshall was- who I predict, BTW, will have had a better career as a Dolphin than Wallace will, with Henne throwing him the ball. So what will you say then? Upgrade at QB throwing to Wallace, and you'll have no excuses for him when he continues playing worse year after year, not better. -EK

I defend Ireland more than anyone here. I don't throw rookies under the bus after 1 half of their first game or after just 1 game period. I praised every offseason move this year because I thought they were good. I even defended Philbin for listening to his players and moving the off day to Thursday!! If anything I am a Ross apologist. What board do you read? SERIOUSLY!

I bashed Henne and Sparano cause they suck...and they did and still do.

Feel better you got your MikeO rant of the day off your chest?

That? That wasn't a rant. I suspect any real rant directed at you would have included some sort of poll, like "What made MikeO feel worse last Sunday, the Pee Wee league numbers his guys Miller and Wallace combined for, or the 140 yards Jerome Simpson got with Christian Ponder of all people throwing him the ball?" -EK

(http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/pop%20corn/grand/jackson_popcorn_gif.gif)

Your still on the "Jerome Simpson is an elite WR" stance after he caught like 25 passes all of 2012. So LOL...uh, ok!

I can't believe you brought that back up. What old debate you want to bring up next, the "Tebow will answers all of the Jets offensive problems"....or the "Tebow is a Top 10 NFL QB".

Nope didn't say that, but it had to sting a little seeing that particular player look so good while your boys looked so bad. Maybe that was a fluke game- probably was. But damn it's gonna suck if he continues outperforming Wallace.

Actually, it isn't going to suck for me. -EK

So you would rather be right and see a player on your "favorite" team underperform rather than say I was mistaken and see a player on your "favorite" team succeed?

I think this tells me about all I need to know about your personality and loyalty to the Dolphins.

Can we stop with the "favorite" team thing? It's pretty obvious to all by now that the Dolphins are not his favorite team. He's using the Panthers Avatar for pete's sake.

of course it won't suck for you.....because you clearly aren't a Dolphins fan. Clearly!

P.S....you did say Simpson was an elite WR. Don't go changing history now

Thank You!!!

His avatar shows up as an empty box with an x (the only member's I cannot see). Had I been able to see that I would know he wasn't pretending to like Miami anymore.

I've NEVER claimed I was a Dolphins fan. Find a post that indicates I am. I follow them because I grew up on them in the Marino years because I was born at Homestead and that's what everyone there did. I stopped being a diehard right about the time JJ screwed the team, trying to turn it into a run-first team and having to then rely on Dan to bail them out repeatedly. You guys all presumed I lived and died with Miami's success and failures. Pappy and I discussed this in PM a long time ago- I'm sorry you guys feel like you've been misled, but I haven't been a "fan" of Miami in decades.

I'm a football fan in general and a Carolina fan in particular since their conception because I live in the Carolina's.  


ANd, yes- I still believe Simpson is an elite receiver. He's done things on the field (with hand puppets throwing him the ball) that no other receiver does. Give him even an average QB and his production would reflect his talent. -EK

^^^ You are going to have to do much better. Look at your very first post. You even say "we" about Miami when talking about playing Carolina.

That post seems to indicate to me that I have a working knowledge of the team, and an interest in what they're doing, not that I'm going to jump in front of a truck when they lose, or throw a party when they win.

I'm still happy for them when they win, but if they lose it doesn't bother me. And I'm not going to be unrealistic about the talent, or lack of talent at some positions, that they have. -EK

I don't think I said any of that. I'm just showing one post of what I assume are many over the years where you claimed being a Dolphin fan. I don't think I've ever used the term "we" to describe any team other than my favorite one.

I don't tend to use the words "us" or "we" in describing my fandom for any team anymore. I don't play for them. I have no emotional stake in their success or failures. I have a life outside of football. I'm honestly shocked that I used those words then, but it was four years ago, so all I can say is I've grown and changed my outlook on these sort of things.

Will it make you feel better for me to pledge my allegiance to Carolina and simply say publically, "I'm sorry I was misleading to the board as a whole." ? -EK

It begs the question -

Why are you here?  Just to argue with MikeO?  Just to ruffle feathers?  You might be better suited on "The Panthers Make Me Cry" instead.

It's a public forum. There are plenty of non-Miami fans here. And let's not pretend that I'm the only person who argues with MikeO. How many members has he run off? How many new people has he gotten into it with and accused them of actually being me under a pseudonym? Let's not act like I'm alone here. -EK

None!

i don't believe any of his story. His story is all bullshit. For a guy who "claims" he has no emotional interest in the Dolphins and isn't a fan who "lives and dies with them", then how come for the past couple years on this very site he is posting in "GAME THREADS" as the games are ongoing. Mind you, while there were Panthers games going on at the same exact time.!! Wouldn't you watch your favorite team (the Panthers) play instead of being here talking about a team you don't care about? None of his story makes sense.

As Brian said, why is he here? It's clear he has some "thing" with me he can't let go. What I ever did to him to cause him to follow me around from thread to thread and just "disagree" with every single stance I have taken the past 3 years I have no idea.

But, let's face facts he has changed his "story" multiple times and none of it adds up. And I ain't buying today's version.

And yet, even when no one is speaking to you, you're still interjecting into this thread- into a conversation between Brian and I. Pot? Kettle?

Of course you don't realize that people don't remain on the site because of you. Your outlook is far too myopic to see that. Take a look at last year's game threads. I think you'll find a marked absence of me posting in them. -EK

If so then maybe the site needs to change its name to the "Dolphins make me smile" instead of cry.

This thread is so off topic.  Probably my fault.  Anyway, anyone who wants to actually discuss Mike Wallace should start a new thread.