The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Jonathan Martin is sick....word is Clabo probably will start Thursday according to the Miami Herald

Over/Under 5 sacks thursday?

Is that first half, or for the whole game?

Damn it!  Beaten to the punch!

Yeah, that was some serious low-hanging fruit...

5 should be the Over/Under on how many snaps it takes for Tannehill to get injured and leave the game.

We might as well start Nate Garner

Maybe McKinnie/benching is a wake up call for Clabo.  Maybe he will play better.

cant fix old and slow

No but you can fix his state of mind.  Maybe the benching is a wake up call, and gets him more motivated.

Hey, I can hope.  You don't go from 3rd best RT in 2012 to old and slow in 2013 without injury or some other factor.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/30/report-jonathan-martin-gone-awol-from-dolphins/

Martin has gone AWOL!And he put himself in a treatment center

Per Jay Glazer: Glazer said Martin had an incident in the team cafeteria this week in which teammates jokingly said they wouldn’t sit with him, and that Martin’s reaction to the joke was that he “flipped out, smashed a food tray on the ground, took off, and they haven’t seen him since.”

Looks like with Pouncey's legal troubles and Martin going AWOL Miami might be in the market for 5 new offensive linemen next season! Martin can't just walk out without telling anyone. He has to go! Unprofessional behavior

They may also need to look for a QB as well, because Tannehill is sure to die at some point this season from excessive blunt force trauma.

What an imploding clusterfuck situation this is...

Our only good O-Line player is going to go to prison for selling guns to a murderer and our worse O-Line player just quit the team.

Well, those 3 weeks of respectability sure were fun.

We're being punked, right?

The only two guys of the O-Line really suited to the zone blocking scheme Philbin wants to run too, the rest are maulers...

The next couple of weeks are make or break stuff - there are bad signs (at least offensively) the team is coming apart at the seams, and if that happens I just can't see how a coach can survive it.

Are we ready for the whole O-Line to be blown up and rebuilt from scratch again? Just how many chances does Ireland get to fix this mess of his own creation?

Sounds like he has some serious emotional problems.  Another Rolando Mclain?

This is absolutely crazy. I can only assume this was not an isolated incident. A simple joke like this caused such a reaction? Sounds like the guy needs help and hopefully he is getting it.

opposing D-Line players have been playing jokes on him all year long

I thought today was Halloween, not April Fools. :-\

I'd say the players that were punking Martin are the ones with "unprofessional behavior".  Losing four straight should not result in jokes; especially towards one of the few bright spots on the O-line.

And if the coaches are allowing this crap to go on to the point where it makes a player snap emotionally, then they've lost control of the team.

If the losing continues, Ross needs to clean house next year.

I guess non-rookie hazing is a bit more widespread than just  Prince Amukamara.

I know some will consider this too PC.....  But hazing has no place in sports at any level from pee-wee to the Pros.  Bulling your own team mates does nothing to foster teamwork.   

Hoodie, this is first comment on here I've seen you write that I actually agree with! 

I also agree. 

I think it is particularly bad when it is on a player who is probably already being hard on themselves because they know they aren't performing at a satisfactory level.  The fire is in the self doubt and self degredation.  The gasoline is the hazing.  His teamates probably didn't even know the fire was there when they poured it on.

When will people learn that suffering is universal and most people just choose to hide it?  I hope they act like men and make amends for their ignorance.

Guys, I don't think this was as much hazing as it was a joke gone wrong.

The guy was reported as being "sick" or "ill" for three days.  A guy comes to a table full of people with a sickness and they all get up and leave (as though to be keeping distance to not catch the sickness).

Granted, the level or type of sickness Martin has hasn't been divulged, so we don't know it it is serious, or joking.  Either way, he was offended by it.  Its different if he has MRSA than if he has a cold.

Let's not read too much into the story, shall we?

This event happened on Monday, the day after the lost to NE. His reported illness is this incident. At first I thought the same but put it together and you can tell soemthing is definitely up.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/31/jonathan-martin-says-dont-believe-everything-you-read/

Martin Speaks!!!

But he doesn't really say anything.  What shouldn't we believe?  News reports are conflict each other. 

Nor does


http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sports/football/future-of-troubled-miami-dolphins-lineman-jonathan/nbdmN/

It doesn't say much. What Garner considers "normal" may very well be something that would be what the rest of us consider hazing.   

Either Martin wants to be here or he doesn't. And if he doesn't then so be it. We can trade him for a late round pick in the offseason and be done with him and just keep him inactive the rest of the year. Or put him on IR or whatever list fits his "condition" and open up a roster spot

Well my sister might consider it hazing but probably not the ones of us that actually have balls.  ;) ;D

J

I don't care if we have Martin or not, one thing I know is Miami better stick with the 6 O-Line sets and use a lot of that here on out. It worked. It didn't get Tannehill killed. It opened up things for Miller. IT WORKS!! Cincy has a great d-line and this worked vs them. It will work vs most other teams.

Hopefully Sherman see's this but who the hell knows with him

Martin is a bitch if he is going to cry about bullying and pranks after what I heard today!!!  Story came out today that the O-line played a prank this training camp on one o-linemen (they didn't say who) that the O-line unit took this guys car keys, moved and hid his car, and then acted like they knew nothing about it while this player went nuts trying to find his car. Guess who drove and hid the car.........JONATHAN MARTIN!!!!!!!

So Martin is ok playing pranks on others but can't take one himself?! Give me a break!! So if Martin is crying about bullying and such he really has no leg to stand on.

I know when I played football the dline and the oline always did shit like this against each other.  In fact, we hated the oline. But come game day, all was different.

Reports are coming out that the NFLPA is investigating Richie Incognito for some of the pranks he's pulled on Martin.

^^^ Link to said reports...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9913324/sources-nflpa-eyes-miami-dolphins-richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-case (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9913324/sources-nflpa-eyes-miami-dolphins-richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-case)

I agree, the 6 O-Line set worked very well for the majority of the game and is worth trying again. That said, we also have to remember the Bengals were really badly banged up on their defense front, and yet still seemed to be slowly making effective adjustments by the end of the game to stuff Thomas.

Ultimately Tannehill still has to make quicker reads and progressions, but if this gives him more confidence and buys him a little more time (at least in the short term), the Max protect option is the smart way to go.

Jeff Darlington of NFL.com reporting that Martin sent a text to Incognito that said...

"I don't blame you guys at all its just the culture around football & the locker room that got to me a little."

https://twitter.com/JeffDarlington/status/396424880540749824

This is spreading like an uncontrolled forest fire.  Now reports are coming out that Martin doesn't want to come back because he fears retaliation from Incognito.  And now I've just gotten a report that the vets were intimidating the rookies into taking them out to dinner and picking up the tab, sometimes as much as $30K.  If that last report is true, then that is extortion and Mr. Ross and Jeff Ireland (not to mention the vets involved) may be in some serious legal trouble, both civil and criminal

Story took a strange twist this morning. Looks like Martin is done for the year and Incognito might be gone as well. Essentially the o-linemen wanted to do an "O-linemen getaway" to Vegas. Martin didn't want to go, but was afraid to say no and paid $15,000 each guy put up. Martin in the end didn't end up going but paid the money out of fear. And Martin tweeting/texting Incognito the other day saying he isn't upset with him is out of fear as he is scared to death of Richie. And Martin has saved one voicemail and a couple text messages of Richie threatening him.

So Martin's time in Miami is most likely over, he can never return to that locker-room. And Incognito might be done as well as the Fins can't keep playing him and not take action against him in the wake of all of this evidence of him being an a-hole.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/03/espn-martin-fears-retribution-from-incognito/

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/03/martin-headed-for-nfi-list-may-never-return-to-the-dolphins/

Ross and Ireland wouldn't be in trouble that's beyond silly let alone "criminal" action for crying out loud. Vets making rookies pick up the tab has gone on forever in every sport. Rookies don't have to go to dinner. Nobody put a gun to their head!

Allowing your employees to extort money from other employees creates a hostile work environment.

You are lost on this issue and clueless.

1) How it would effect Jeff Ireland? Please explain cause he is only the GM. He cashes a paycheck signed by Mr. Ross just like Martin does.
2) Ross would have had to have known such action was taking place. How you want to bring "criminal action" against him is laughable.
3) Martin now has brought this to everyone's attention, so until just now nobody knew about this.
4) If Martin didn't want to fork over $15,000 he could have said NO. Gone to his Union Rep and complained. He could have gone to the Dolphins staff and spoke up. He did nothing....until recently!
5) Guys going out to eat "OFF COMPANY TIME" and an incident taking place cannot bring charges against Ross or the Dolphins!!

I have heard these stories for years from every sport. I don't necessarily like them, but it isn't anything new. Yeah, Incognito is a dick and always has been, but so are many other NFL players. Why is this case different?

This is just NFL culture and if Martin can't handle it here, he may as well retire because the next team he goes to is really going to hammer him. Not like he was a Pro Bowler anyway.

Too bad Jeff Ireland got in trouble for calling Dez Bryant's Mother a whore, then he wouldn't have shied away from asking Martin if he was a pussy.

1) Martin isn't mentally tough enough to play in the NFL.
2 Fins rookie Will Davis tweeted out that the defensive vet players left the defensive rookies with a dinner tab this year, they split it up and it was no big deal.

Martin is a wimp.

Exactly. This team already has problems with mental toughness, they can't have a guy like this who can't handle bad situations himself. Like I said, it sucks and I think it's stupid to haze your own teammates, but it's common practice and I can't think of anyone else acting this way.

I never thought a situation like this would tear up an offensive line unit. Its not like they kidnapped him, stole his clothes, and dropped him off in South Beach. Still, there are no winners here. There will probably be a whole new starting 5 next season.

http://deadspin.com/report-miami-dolphins-bullying-not-limited-to-jonatha-1457688830 (http://deadspin.com/report-miami-dolphins-bullying-not-limited-to-jonatha-1457688830)

Martin has now lodged a formal complaint and the league and Dolphins looking into it.

If Incognito did some other stuff that is criminal like making threats and stealing, then I am all for him being kicked off the team. However, if this is just typical stuff that goes on in every locker room, then Martin's career is over and this is ridiculous.

Yep. This is another place where political correctness will win over tradition because of someone who has had everything given to them on a silver platter. No freaking wonder he is not very good!!

Wherever he land I hope he doesn't get a blanket party welcoming because what he has just done will probably be felt throughout the league.  Well ... unless the NFL pretends the bullying is Bellichick. Then they could just turn a blind eye and say they didn't "spy" anything.  ;) ;D

CF, did you see the video with JPP and Prince Amukamara?  Do you think that is an issue of "political correctness"?

He isn't going to land anywhere, he is done in this league. He is like a scab who crossed the picket line. No team wants the negative PR and locker room discontent by signing a BAD O-Line player. It's not like he is Adrian Peterson.

Indy would take Martin in a heart-beat. His old offensive coordinator at Stanford is the OC in Indy now. And Luck can control the locker-room and make it a safe environment for him. I could see Miami sending him there for a 6th or 7th rounder in the offseason and being done with it.

IF Martin is just upset about Incognito being a jerk and standard NFL rookie stuff, I don't see how anybody would want to have this guy on their team.

HOWEVER, if Incognito threatened him to give him money or said he would hurt him and all that stuff (and let's be honest, would it be that shocking?) then I think he can still play in this league. The NFL is very old school, they get mad at you if you don't come back from a concussion earlier than you should. I don't see how they would be happy playing with a tattle tale.

Martin has played his last game in Miami.

Incognito will get a slap on the wrist or be cut by the Fins.

By the time Miami plays TB this whole story should be over with. It's already getting a little boring honestly as more details come out. Pretty much Martin is a wimp and can't stand up for himself. That's the entire story to me. The week before they played the "lunch prank" on Martin they did the same exact prank on Nate Garner....i mean for crying out loud how much of a wimp is Martin!

Surprised he didn't file a complaint against the league's Defensive Ends for all of the abuse he received throughout the year.

The more concerning issue I see is the $30k dinner tab deal.  If it was split up, fine, but if they made one rookie pay for it, that's messed up.  One of the other reports I read said that Incognito basically strongarmed Martin into giving up $15k for a Vegas trip Martin didn't even go on.  It's one thing to make rookies carry your shoulder pads, or fill their lockers with popcorn... it's another to make them hand over tens of thousands of dollars.

Furthermore:  Martin isn't a rookie.  He did sit down, shut up, and take his rookie hazing.  But if it's still going on in the second year, it's really crossing the line (just as it did with Amukamara).

Will Davis tweeted today that similar thing happened this year and it was split up among the rookies and no big deal (at least in his eyes)

Its true, Martin isn't a rookie. Yet, he still finds himself picked on. Even after he allegedly played pranks on others. Yet, he feels compelled enough to go outside the chain of command. It sounds like his teammates didn't and don't respect him. Actions like this, support the other's possible disrespect for him. This is why his days are numbered in Miami. You can force your way back onto the team, but you can't make your team respect you. Linemen don't like other linemen they can't trust or respect. There's a reason Incognito publicly lobbied hard for Long to return to the Dolphins. He's not lobbying for Martin to return. He respected Long. Martin, not so much.

What really sucks, is public pressure. If they cut Incognito, they would be compelled to keep Martin at least through the end of this season. Which means, the line will suck even more. Because, they would lose whatever character they had left on the line. In favor of their weakest link.

And if these reports about Incognito are true, then it's extortion and charges should be brought against Incognito.  Additionally the team (Mr. Ross) can be the subject of a lawsuit

I think too much is being made of this $15K bill for vegas trip thing. Remember most of these guys make 10 times the money you and I do, so $15K for them is like $1500 for you and I. So let me give you a scenario and you tell me if this is extortion.

A bunch of guys I work with decide to go to Vegas. We decide we are all going to put in $1500 to cover expenses like the airplane tickets, the cost of the hotel rooms, rent a vehicle, food, etc. The only thing that won't be covered by the money we put up front will be for gambling. So we all put in $1500, buy the plane tickets, reserve the rooms, get the car etc. Then a couple days before we leave one guy says he can't go for whatever reason. The money has already been used for the tickets, rooms, car etc. The guy doesn't ask for his money back so we go without him. The guy later says that he resented us not giving him his $1500 back since he didn't go on the trip.

Did we extort him out of $1500 or did he back out on the deal at the last minute on us and not give us much choice? Now, I'm not saying this IS the case for Incognito, I don't know what went on, but I could see this happening and there could have been absolutely no malice involved towards the guy. Perhaps the guy even felt pressured into putting up the $1500 even though he wasn't sure he wanted to go but was afraid to tell us until the last minute and then backed out. Is that our fault? He could have simply said he didn't want to go up front and not paid the $1500. Sure we would have chided him mercilessly because that's what guys do, but he would have still had his $1500.

I picked this scenario because a guy I used to work with actually would do this type of thing all the time with a bunch of his buddies. They all would put money up front for expenses and someone would make all the arrangements for everything and get everyone their tickets, hotel rooms, etc. I could see this happening where someone can't go at the last minute, not sure how they would have handled it, but I don't think it would have been completely out of the question that he was simply out the money he put up front unless they could somehow recoup some of it. Especially if lets say they asked him why he couldn't go and he simply said he didn't want to go. If you can't go because your mother in law is in the hospital, I'd do everything I can to get your money back to you, but if you can't go because you changed your mind and just don't want to, well sorry to hear that buddy but I don't feel obligated in the least to give you a refund.

Regardless, this scenario isn't even close to extortion in my humble opinion and basically just someone getting their feelings hurt.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/03/espn-martin-fears-retribution-from-incognito/

"Schefter detailed a situation in which Martin was intimidated by Incognito to contribute $15,000 toward a trip to Las Vegas by the team’s offensive lineman.  Martin, according to Schefter, didn’t want to go and ultimately didn’t go — but he surrendered the money anyway."

So, to make the analogy accurate, you and some of your coworkers decide to go to Vegas.  One of your coworkers says he doesn't want to go.  He is pressured by his coworkers into contributing $1500 to the fund anyway.  He still does not go.

This would be OK in your book?

Ingognito has been suspended indefinitely by the Dolphins. Per Jeff Darlington.

^^^ Probably a good thing...Miami was way too overloaded with serviceable offensive linemen.

Correct. Not even close to extortion.

But it is bullying. I am aware that this is part and parcel of life as an NFL player to get hazed by teammates and play pranks, fine. But just because for the most part this is taken on the chin by players and they don't make a fuss doesn't make it right or acceptable.

Threatening a player with either physical or mental abuse to provide money is no different to the schoolyard bully after lunch money, or a protection racket and has no place in the workplace.

Ideally this should have been dealth with internally between the players involved but for whatever reason Martin felt he couldn't do that. The Phins need to look at their organisation to work out how this went on for so long undetected (or worse ignored).

Suspect Martin has played his last game for the Dolphins but Incognito is clearly a problem in the locker room and had to go too. Hopefully the remainder of the players will rally around eachother and focus on football.

How could this have been dealt with internally when everyone was involved? Coaches know it. The NFL knows it. Reporters know it. None of this is new to anyone but fans. This is a part of the NFL. If he can't handle it he needs to move on with his Stanford degree. After this debacle this Martin's life will get worse rather than better ... regardless of where he thinks he can go.

If it gets any worse maybe you Fau and I have an chance!! The rookie minimum is $405,000 so after hazing it's about $275,000 to play!  :)

You'll have to appreciate that this story isn't as easy to follow for me so I've only read articles on ESPN rather than listening to radio shows etc but I hadn't seen anything to suggest the coaches were aware of the depth of the issues. If that was the case then he probably had little choice but to walk when it became too much. Not being familiar with how this would work in the US, if the same were to happen in the UK the organisation would be facing some issues for failing to deal with it.

I'm not sure I agree with the "This is part of the NFL" argument, some years ago "It's just part of the job" was used to allow all sorts of behaviour in the workplace which is considered inappropriate now.

fine....but those rooting for criminal charges against Ross and Ireland have no idea what they are talking about

It is. It has happened under every single NFL coach in the history of the NFL so if they were going to stop it they'd have to discipline every single current team. Technically shaving their heads or making them sing before they eat is bullying. Where do you draw the lines?

Martin had another bad game and was stressed out. He flipped out and is now blaming others for his issues. He went public so the Dolphins and NFL are being forced to do something.

i couldn't join the oline with you CF .. i don't respond well to bullying .. i'd end up cutting some asshole's car in half with a chainsaw as my answer to a bully

I'm not rooting for anything.  I'm just saying if the justice department or Congress gets involved in this, they could decide to bring criminal charges against all the senior executives.  One seen it happen before in the business world.

Congress is going to get involved in this......LMFAO!!!!! Funniest Comment of The Year!!!! LOL LOL

I think this depends on which version of the story you are believing. Apparently there are some saved voice mails so we will know some more about this eventually. Threats of physical violence to coerce payments for trips you said you do not plan to attend really are not acceptable at all. In the report I read it mentioned the threats were racial as we as threatening. I expect this story has much more to it than the pranking that goes on with every team.

I don't think what was going on is at all unique to the Dolphins, although it may be worse in Miami than on some other teams. 

The good that may come out of this maybe that it stops everywhere (not just in Miami). 

I'm kind of confused. I can see that some level of razzing and pranking goes on in team sports, and yes if the PC brigade really wanted to get involved you could argue it's bullying/harassment but normally the worst outcome is a loss of face and it's widely recognized as part and parcel of building team spirit. I don't have an issue with this side of it.

What is alleged to have happened goes way beyond rookie wind ups, and yet people seem to want to say they are the same thing?

I wonder how much of the reaction to Martin and the apparent "man up" attitude is a result of the performance of the OL and Martin in particular. If this had been Cam Wake for instance I suspect the opinions on who is at fault would be reversed.

No, it would not be, but we don't know what happened. If that's what happened then it was taken too far, but if Martin said nothing about the 15K because he was intimidated then I gotta tell you that's on him. He HAS to speak up and say something for himself. If he felt intimidated then he should have gone to the NFL, the NFLPA or to Philbin and said something needed to be done. If that happened and nothing was done by anyone then absolutely I feel for the guy, but I'm not buying that. I don't think Martin said anything to anyone before the blowup. After he left the team and people started asking him WTF was going on then he starts talking. I'm not saying that's wrong, but I'm saying it didn't have to get to that point. He needed to do something before leaving the team if this really was the issue that he's now claiming that it was.

For those who say "some hazing is okay"....

Keep this in mind. 

In no place I have ever worked is it acceptable to demand the new employee to buy everyone dinner or lunch. 

In no place I have ever worked is it acceptable to pick a coworker up and throw them in a cold tub.

In no place I have ever worked is it acceptable to have another players hair.

In no place I have ever worked is it acceptable to give my coworkers demeaning or racist nicknames. 

And in every place I have ever worked if an employee tried any of that crap, he/she would be fired immediately and if not the employer would be liable for a lawsuit of a hostile work environment. 

While I haven't researched Florida law, I am willing to bet dollars to donuts much of what some of you consider an acceptable level of hazing is a clear violation of Florida law. 

I do know know without question that all hazing is illegal at Florida colleges and high schools and if this happened there the participating players along with the coaches could be facing felony charges.   

I am not talking about the worst of what is being alleged.  I am talking about the "small amount of hazing" some consider to be okay. 

As long as you keep in mind that you have never worked as a player for the NFL. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it's the way it is.

Hoodie, I understand what you're saying, and in a vacuum, you are completely correct.

That being said, I'm not going to blame Philbin for not coming in and completely undoing the NFL system.  If rookies have to carry vets' shoulder pads in training camp, get up and sing, or are asked to dye/shave their hair, that is within the bounds of reason.  This is stuff that the NFL is happy to show on camera as examples of comradery (or what have you).  Fine.

But what you won't see on Hard Knocks is a player referring to another player as a "half n----r" or intimidating him into pay $15k for a trip he isn't going on.  If the team wouldn't want you to see it, that's a big indicator that they probably shouldn't allow it to happen.

^ I completely agree with Spider.  You're not going to un-do the history of the NFL overnight, so I don't fault Philbin for that.  But this escalation is far above a simple "rookie dinner".

Me neither.  see my post in the other thread on this topic.


I think some of what is on hard knocks crosses the line into behavior that violates most states' laws against a hostile workplace.

As I said I don't think this is a "Dolphin problem" but an NFL problem.

In unrelated news, the Saints weren't the only team encouraging players to injure opposing teams players --- they were the most obvious about it.  And the NEP weren't the only team stealing opposing teams defensive signals -- they were the ones the Jets set up to get caught at it. 

In the "YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS UP" category.....from Thursday's program  for the Cincy-Miami game. They asked a bunch of players, including Richie, "who is the easiest teammate to scare".....take 1 guess who his answer was

http://www.bobsblitz.com/2013/11/richie-incognitos-sad-pick-for-easiest.html

"I immediately regret this decision"

Milk was a bad choice.

So criminal charges against the Dolphins might be going too far, but here's your answer on the possibility of a civil lawsuit

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/11/06/3733796/lawsuit-possible-in-miami-dolphins.html

I was responding to "CRIMINAL" charges which was your original post. Foolish to think anyone will serve jail time over this.

Incognito might if the authorities get a bug up their ass and charge him with a hate crime.

He isn't going to jail. This is where people get absurd with this stuff. What is the "crime"....being a racist? Yelling mean and racist things at someone? Threats? While he may never play in the NFL again and could lose money in a civil suit...he isn't gonna get sent to jail for that.

Making death threats to someone, threatening their family, and using racial slurs in it is a hate crime.  Hate crimes carry stiff criminal penalties.  If Incognito were an average Joe, he'd be looking at a lengthy jail sentence.

He isn't going to jail. It's foolish to think that will happen

It's more foolish that he gets special treatment for being an NFL player who did something that would get any of us arrested. I understand where Landshark is coming from with this, and he's right- someone who isn't a pro athlete doesn't get this treatment. -EK