The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000276100/article/richie-incognito-suspended-by-miami-dolphins

Incognito was pretty much known as a scumbag when he was with the Rams.

So who is at fault for this debacle?

- Martin, for complaining?
- Incognito, for acting like the Richie Incognito known around the league?
- Philbin/Ireland, for doing nothing to fix this?

I say the latter.  For all the hoopla about "Philbin guys" and "Long/Bush/Dansby leadership team" and "Marshall didn't fit the culture," to allow this kind of problem to fester in the locker room while doing nothing shows utter incompetence.  And unlike 2-time champion Coughlin, this group has no excuse and cannot simply wave this away.

Interesting note from the thread announcing Incognito's original visit with the Dolphins:

So basically, someone who will intimidate players on his own team.  Hmmm.

Spider, I see where you're coming from. Personally I found the whole "Philbin Guy" thing to be a joke. Instead of using the "leadership council" to his advantage, he saw it as a threat to his authority. Unfortunately, we don't know if Martin had made his concerns known prior to his depature. We don't know if Philbin had an open door policy. I believe in a chain of command. And it doesn't look like they had one. Because if they did, it wouldn't have gotten to this point. Especially when they take this sort of stuff seriously. So seriously, that they ask the NFL to investigate an internal matter. Not Martin, the team. This situation has gotten beyond ridiculous.

Thank god they took action. This story is so childish and stupid I am so sick of it. Martin is done in Miami. Richie is probably done, I would be shocked if we saw him play again this year and since its his final year of his contract he has played his last game for the Fins. Back to football.

Do you honestly think this is about Incognito? Do you really think coaching has anything to do with it? Do you really think the NFL didn't know what goes is going on in these locker rooms? It is a part of the game. They may make him the scapegoat but knowing Incognito ... I don't see him going away quietly.

Every team does this and it isn't bullying. The freaking NFL is the fraternity of all fraternities. These guys do not have to play. It is a privilege and there is always someone waiting for your spot if you don't want it.

I'm cracking up with Joe Rose and his stories of hazing rookies and the most underlying factor is the more they complained the worse it got. This went on before Shula and will continue long after Wussygate. I've spoken to a someone who pretty much confirmed my feelings and that Martin will get his regardless of where he goes. This is so far from being just a Miami Dolphin problem.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Pulling pranks like dying rookies hair is one thing.  Using them as ATMs is another.   I can understand having one team dinner a year which is paid for by all the rookies.  But to constantly go on those outings and put it all on one rookie each time is messed up. 

Spider-Dan is right.  You got to blame the guys at the top of the food chain for this debacle.  Philbin saying " I can say without question that we emphasize a culture of team-first accountability and respect for one another. Any behavior that deviates from that is inconsistent from the values of our organization. That’s all I’ll say in regards to that."

He's full of shit.  He had an idea if this stuff was going on.

Also, from the story:
The Dolphins are expected to work with Nate Garner at left guard and Tyson Clabo at right tackle. Both players manned those positions against the Cincinnati Bengals after Martin went AWOL from the team prior to the game and Incognito suffered a stinger in his neck in the first half and was unable to return to the game.


How karma is that, that Igcognito suffered a stinger in the CIN game and was unable to play! LOL

That's pretty much where I'm coming from too.  I'm fine with "hazing" for lack of a better term.  And I'm even fine with making the rookies pick up the tab for a night on the town.   But to use them as ATMs, as Landshark put it, is overkill.  Even though I was a (brief) career minor-leaguer, even in baseball we had a pecking order where newbies had to put up with a lot of grief as part of "paying their dues" and it actually goes a long way towards team unity and "family".  If you make it past your rookie year, you then get to do to the next group what was done to you.  Hell, we all look back and laugh about the times that we were "terrorized" as newbies by our teammates and now recall those times fondly.  But when you are making guys give up large percentages of their relatively meager rookie salaries to continually fund team parties, etc. then you are messing with a man's livelhihood and that is crossing the line.  Although like I said, making the Rooks pay for one dinner or night on the town for the veterans is fine. 

Well hopefully we can have some IBM guys draw up the guidelines for the NFL so it can become more pussified than it is.

It's the freaking NFL where machismo is what drives each of these guys to pound each other in the sand. you can't force them to work within the same guidelines of librarians and want to be lawyers. 

We don't know the full story yet, but based on some of what's leaking out to the media, this sounds like more than just some hazing.  If it turns out that what's being reported is true, then it's completely unacceptable and Incognito should never play another down for the Dolphins.  I don't say this lightly.  Incognito has been one of my favorite players and a bright spot for the team.  

If you have never been systematically bullied before, it's hard to imagine the fear involved.  I had a friend in High School who was bullied by 3 guys a year older than us.  They constantly picked at him making him miserable.  In the end, it was just too much for him and he hung himself in a walk in freezer with a garden hose while working at McDonalds.  It wasn't one big threat that pushed him over the edge.  It was the constant, unrelenting harassment.  

Just because Martin is a big guy, it doesn't mean that he can't be bullied.   Martin's reps told the Dolphins that Martin was afraid of Incognito.  That shouldn't happen with teammates playing on the same unit.

With all the bad things that have happened to the Dolphins, for me this is the worst.  We all ask how it is that highly ranked linemen come here and underachieve.  Maybe we have our answer.  Maybe this isn't really a team, just a collection of guys who don't feel the same connection with the guys they play with.  

It's being piece milled for sensationalism. For instance ... the $30,000 bill was split between many players. Other "rookies" and young players don't seem to have an issue.

“Everything tastes better when rookies pay for it,” veteran defensive end Jared Odrick wrote on Twitter over the weekend. “Yes, the bill would make you sick.”

Younger players were handed the tab for a $30,000 team dinner, according to a source. The rookie minimum salary this year is about $400,000.

Will Davis, a rookie cornerback, tweeted Sunday: “The bill was definitely split. . . . They would never put that on one man to pay for it all. Haha now that would be crazy . . .”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/11/04/3729152/incognito-dolphins-push-back-against.html#storylink=cpy

CF, some of what is being claimed may be bullshit, but let's assume the claims are true.  When does it cross the line from fraternal hazing to harassment?   I'm okay with rookies carrying pads, getting a bad haircut, getting a unflattering nickname and paying for a team dinner, but that's not what I'm hearing. 

Rookies required to pay for multiple veterans meals
Martin paying 15K for the linemen to go to Vegas (a trip he didn't make)
Messages and texts that Martin feels are threatening (racially charged)
Making fun of Martin's family

It's like the hazing didn't stop for Martin.  Maybe he's more sensitive than other players.  So what.  It doesn't make it okay.  Bullies do what they do because they are miserable with themselves and need to pump themselves up at someone else expense.  Once it starts, it doesn't stop.  I think in most cases they don't ever admit to themselves that what they do is harmful - "we are just having a laugh".  Some level of hazing builds a bond based on common experiences, but if you go to far you destroy that bond.

Initially, it looks like the Dolphins tried to downplay this and sweep it under the rug.  They need Incognito.  I have to believe that the action they took were in response to evidence of misconduct.  This is more than a story some of an overly sensitive lineman.   

Wow Jim, that's a sad sorry about your friend.  No one should have to put with stuff like that throughout their life, especially at a young age where sometimes people feel they have nowhere or no one to turn to.

Look, I get the rookie hazing, and pulling pranks to get one over on the guys, but when it's systematic hounding, bullying, whatever you call it and it affects one's life and how they function day to day.....fock that noise.

That's not friendship or teammate IMO, that's doing it for the sake that you can get away it and being a prick and no one has ever stood up to you and knocked your dick in the dirt.  Look, Richie's got a history, we know that or at least what was published in the media.  NFL players rank him near the top as a dirty player, he was in that bar fight (ummm, being peacemaker, sorry) during the summer.  He PRIDES himself on this, don't let him fool you.  He likes it.

Whatever, I'm over it.  Richie is gone and now we are out of a LT/RT in Martin.  So basically his actions have cost MIA two starting players on the OL.

Good job, good effort Richie.

http://deadspin.com/is-richie-incognitos-dad-blasting-jonathan-martin-on-m-1457997230?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

Richies dad is posting crap on message boards now....lol. This is a circus.  Richie's season is over. No coming back this year

See CF, I think you are looking too simplistically. This has nothing to do with the Martin story. The story there is he has received physical threats. The real story is more than about this rookie hazing which we all know happens. The real story is about someone being threatened which is unacceptable.

Yes.

Yes.

So CF, what was your position on Spygate and Bountygate?  Because this sounds a lot like what NE and NO fans were saying around then.

All of your posts on the subject seem to be blaming the victim.

What is your ideal result here?  Should Martin just retire because, even though he he has achieved his lifelong dream of playing in the NFL, he can't handle all the threats and bullying?  He made it through his rookie year and the hazing didn't stop.  That's when it became more than that.

If you don't see something wrong with someone strongarming you out of $15K for a trip you didn't even go on, I don't know what to tell you.

Its called extortion and it is a crime

Much ado about nothing.

Ok, they suspended him indefinitely, but he didn't play most of the night Thursday, so not really even sure he was healthy enough to play next Monday even if they hadn't suspended him. This is Miami covering their ass. They have officially passed the buck to the NFL. If the NFL doesn't suspend Incognito, I think he'll be reinstated by Miami. I don't know how long that will take, but I would assume he should be back in time for the San Diego game.

Martin is another issue. Basically he has broken ranks with the family. I don't expect he'll return to Miami and frankly I'm not sure I want the guy back. This has really shown me that he's not mentally tough enough for the NFL.

All you have to do is say no. I don't think anyone held a gun to their heads and had them clean out their ATM.

Depends on where the ranks lie, and how complicit the other players were in either helping or not stopping the issues.

And Ted Cruz and the rest of Congress will be involved soon over $15,000!! Everyone better lawyer up! lol

And what if you say no?

Why didn't he just say no?

So you think all of this was going on with the approval of Philbin? Did he ever go to Philbin and say he anything about this? If he did and Philbin ingnored, then absolutely Miami is to blame, but I don't see Philbin as a guy who would just let this go if he knew someone had a problem with it.

I think we have to consider that perhaps this has a lot more to do with Martin being moved to right tackle after bringing in McKinney. That was a slap in the face to Martin and then it's possible that perhaps Clabo was going to be given a chance to start over Martin which would have been even more demoralizing. I got a feeling there's a LOT more going on here then meets the eye and once all is said and done, Martin is gone and Incognito and the Dolphins are moving on without him.

I just watched where they asked several other former NFL players about this type of stuff and they all said you just have to say "No" if someone is trying to get you to do something you don't want to do.

Lets not all forget what caused Martin to walk out....it was the lunch-room prank. NOT the $15,000. That has come up after the fact. And the lunch-room prank was played on Nate Garner the week before (Martin was involved in it) and in training camp another prank on another linemen in which they took someones car keys and hid his car.....Martin DROVE THE CAR AND HID IT!!! A case of someone being able to dish it out but not take it.

This whole "extortion" is nonsense and how its bullying is also nonsense....so when Martin plays pranks on others that's ok and not bullying? And if he was at a meal THIS YEAR where rookies paid the tab (safe bet is he was) really blows up Martin's whole defense and gives him no leg to stand on!

If "No thanks" or "Please don't do that" worked as a solution to bullying, bullying wouldn't exist.

Should Martin have simply fought Incognito?  I know we may be inclined to think of football players as mindless beasts that exist solely for our entertainment, but some of them are real people who enjoy the playing the game of football and don't enjoy fistfights with 300-pound men.

The idea that you should have to fight someone at your place of work to get them to stop intimidating and threatening you is bizarre.

So basically, every other instance of bullying didn't count, only the one that caused Martin to snap?

This is getting crazy.  Reports are being leaked that the evidence Martin turned over to the NFL has Incognito calling him racial slurs and threatening him and his family with bodily harm.  Forget extortion.  This is an alleged hate crime.   If the allegations are true, Incognito could end up joining Aaron Hernandez.

Just heard that on the Rome show. Criminal charges likely at this point. -EK

That's why you have the NFL, the NFLPA, Philbin, Sherman, the offensive line coach etc etc etc. Now if he went through all these channels and the problem persisted then I'm fine with Incognito being suspended, Philbin being suspended and Martin suing the NFL and NFLPA. On the other hand if he didn't....

Incognito is nuts! Miami needs to CUT him now!

Still don't want Martin back though after all of this

No, just saying Martin was bullying someone else as early as a week before. So its tough for him to "cry wolf"

^^^ i don't think you know the difference between a prank and bullying. The lunchroom gag = prank. Moving a car = prank. Threats of violence = bullying

Agreed, so he should have gone to someone with authority over Incognito like Philbin, Sherman, his line coach, the NFL, the NFLPA for example. Did he say anything to anyone prior to last week? If not, what did he think it would just go away? After 2 years of this? This is a grown man we are talking about not a 14 year old boy. You might be able to intimidate a 14yr old boy into saying nothing to anyone for fear of reprisal, but a grown man? He should have known that something needed to be said and something done about it before walking out on the team. That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

And he WALKED OUT over the prank! 

I'm defending Incognito too at this point because I don't think all of this has come out yet. If all of this was going on and Philbin and Sherman let it go on then yes they are as much to blame as Incognito and they all deserve to be suspended, but neither Philbin nor Sherman strike me as guys that would let this go on. Maybe I can believe that Incognito could have been intimidating Martin, but I can't believe that Martin brought this to Philbin and Sherman and they did nothing. I don't believe that. I think Philbin and Sherman are as shocked about these allegations as is Incognito, but they have no choice but to suspend Incognito until the investigation is complete. When the investigation is complete, I'll be very interested to see what is said.

I agree.

I'm not defending walking out in any way Pappy or Mike. I'm saying your characterizations of this being no more than a lunchroom prank may be off the mark. I likely would have handled things different but none of us were in Martin's shoes and none of us know what Martin was feeling.

Several instances of threats including Incognito texting Martin that he would hunt down his family and hurt them. That's indefensible. ESPN has also published texts showing some of the racial slurs and wanting to shit in his mouth in addition to saying he'd slap Martin's mother. In what world is that ok?

Edit to add link: http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24186392/dolphins-harassment-case-text-from-incognito-to-martin-used-racial-slur

-EK

Here is the question we need answered....Did Martin go to any meal this year where the Rookies paid the tab. If so then Martin has no leg to stand on. If he is against rookies being forced to pay for things or players in general being forced to pay for things then you can't come back and cry about it now if you took part in it being on the other end getting a free meal or whatever for free. So that is what we need to have answered.

The pranks thing to me is already settled. Martin played pranks on others but couldn't take them played on him. I don't want to hear Martin crying about any pranks. He lost that right.

Fins need to CUT Richie today. Tell Martin to stay home rest of the year (and pay him his salary) and as an organization just move the heck on. This is beyond silly.

So the solution is for Martin to go to the authorities.

Which is what he did, with the attendant "WHAT A PUSSY" commentary following.

What does the meal thing have to do with the truly big picture? You're fixating on one free and missing the forest. Cognito threatened the guy and his family. That's an absolute fact. The Dolphins and NFL have the texts. -EK

And didn't I say cut Incognito! What part of that don't you get? CUT HIM TODAY! I have said it multiple times!


--no personal stuff
Edit by Dave.

Under NO circumstances do I believe that Martin should have just taken it.

Actually I'm assuming that Martin WAS being bullied and he should have handled it better. This is a grown man, not some 14 year old boy. What a man does when he's being bullied is he uses all the help at his disposal. He had the NFLPA, the NFL, Philbin, Sherman, his line coach, heck even the police if he had received threatening phone calls. Has he used any of these avenues for help? I believe that if he would have sought help he would have received it and perhaps Incognito would have been off the team a long time ago and the bullying would have been stopped a long time ago.

Then why are you even asking about the other stuff? Saying, "here is the question we need answered..." Is just nonsense. What they need answered is whether or not Incognito is going to jail. -EK

Absolutely.

I didn't call him a pussy, I said that he wasn't mentally tough enough for the NFL which I think is true if what prevented him from going to the authorities was his fear of being called a pussy.

Because we are talking about the entire situation.......and I am curious about the ENTIRE story and what caused all of this! You don't need to respond to my posts or aspects of it if you aren't interested. Just skip it!

Although I wasn't necessarily referring to you, your commentary fits.  Saying that he is "not mentally tough enough" is six of one, a half-dozen of the other.

On this (and other) message boards, I'd say about 60% (but trending down, at least) of the comments from Miami fans has been somewhere along the line of "Martin is such a wimp, he can't make it in the NFL."  It shouldn't be hard to find several examples of that kind of commentary in this thread alone.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9926139/richie-incognito-miami-dolphins-used-slurs-messages-jonathan-martin

Voicemail from Incognito to Martin in April 2013 (Martin was drafted in 2012):

"Hey, wassup, you half n----- piece of s---. I saw you on Twitter, you been training 10 weeks. [I want to] s--- in your f---ing mouth. [I'm going to] slap your f---ing mouth. [I'm going to] slap your real mother across the face [laughter]. F--- you, you're still a rookie. I'll kill you."

I know, boys being boys, get the sand out of your vagina, etc.

According to another article (http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/66763/dolphins-had-no-choice-with-incognito), Incognito was part of the leadership council this season?

Must have been a Philbin Guy.

I'm a little late to the party.  My opinion is subject to change, if new info surfaces, but from what it looks like:

1) You can't blame the victim.  Martin was taking unreasonable abuse.  Even if he was somewhat complicit in some kind of rookie hazing, there is pretty definitive proof that Incognito not just stepped over the line, but took a giant leap over it.

2) There is a failure of leadership for the Dolphins.  Not only are the veterans in the locker room not stepping up (and sound complicit if not directly responsible for the problem), but the coaches, all the way up to Philbin, should've acted.  If they didn't know, it says something about them that this is happening and it's news to them.


This can go two ways.  Firstly, it's good that this came out.  No wonder the line sucks, with this kind of dysfunction in what's supposed to be a supportive working environment.  Incognito is probably done forever on this team.  Martin is likely done, too, although I'd hope the team tries to mend this -- at least give him the opportunity.  It speaks volumes and undermines all the "character" bullcrap we've been circle-jerking about Philbin.  I hope we end up better for it and the team rallies around it.  But if not, you have to blow up the entire line and possibly the entire coaching staff that allowed this stuff to occur.

It bears re-emphasis:  Incognito was selected to be part of the leadership council.  (By the players?  By Philbin?  The latter would be particularly damning.)

This is a guy who has a sign on his locker that says, "There are two things Richie Incognito does not like: Taxes and Rookies".

Leadership council.

I think that stuff is funny.  And rookie hazing, to a small extent, I'm sure builds unity.  But there is a gray area between hazing and bullying and then there's this.  This is a clear case of someone going way, incredibly over the line.

When money is changing hands, outside of that one rookie dinner, where it's known and expected by all parties, I think it's too much.  And the texting stuff is just absurd.

Don't forget -- this is a business.  Coaches are managers.  Sure, you're teaching guys to play better, but you're also their boss -- and you have to protect your employees and guarantee a safe, comfortable working environment.

I understand it's a joke, but I have a hard time imagining Zach, JT, or Marino putting a sign on their locker saying that they don't like rookies.  I think even Long/Bush/Dansby would have known better.

That kind of stuff is the opposite of leadership.

^ Perhaps.

But I think you can also have some good cop/bad cop.  If Incognito mocked rookies, but other guys took them under their wing, and then after the season was over, he embraced them -- maybe that works.  I don't have all the answers.

While I would love to revel in the idea that this is an example of Dolphin dysfunctional and that this could not occur on my well managed NEP.

I don't think that is the case. 

It might be worse in Miami, but this is a league wide problem. 

So you don't think it requires a mentally tough individual to be a starting tackle in the NFL? I do and I'm not sure after these recent events that Martin is tough enough to be a starting tackle in the NFL. Not because he told his agent what was going on after he left the team, but because he apparently didn't say anything prior to leaving the team. Yes, it would have taken some guts to stand up to Incognito and go to the authorities and tell them what was happening and to make sure that something was done about it, but that's what I would expect of a mentally tough individual.

If this happens to me I'm going straight to the coach and I'm showing him this and telling him make it stop. Now. Not another voice mail, text or anything else or I'm going to the NFLPA and then to the police. I would have made good on that promise as well. This was all so avoidable.

I was about 5 foot nothing in 8th grade and weighed about 80 pounds. I was one of the smallest kids in my class. I was also one of the captains when it came time to pick teams on the playground because I didn't let people take advantage of my size. One day someone got the bright idea that we should play full tackle football instead of 2 hand touch like we always played. I argued with them for a good 10 minutes that someone would get hurt, but they didn't listen to me, so they decided to play anyway. On the opening kickoff I ran down the field and buried the kick returner into the ground. He had a hard time getting up. We quit playing full tackle and went back to playing two hand touch the next play. Mental toughness has absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to do with physical toughness. You only have what God gives you physically. Your mental makeup is all up to you.

I feel sorry for Martin, I really do, but I can't accept that he couldn't have helped prevent this as well.

I think it requires a mentally tough person to be the best in high school and the best in college, so that you can even make it to the NFL.

The point is that Martin did take this to the authorities.  When Martin was initially declared out of the Thursday game, the word from the Dolphins was "Illness."  Do you think Philbin believed he caught the flu?  It was a cover up; nothing at all was happening on this until things started getting leaked to the media, then suddenly the wheels started churning briskly.

If you want to say Martin was a wuss for not using his fists to solve his problems (as some in this thread have implied), then fine; that's consistency, at least.  But otherwise, are you saying Martin is a pussy "not mentally tough" because he went to the authorities too soon, or not soon enough, or because he allowed himself to be bullied in the first place, or what?

Some of these guys are in the NFL because they are actually good at playing football, not because they are intergalactic badasses.  The two are not interchangeable.

I think that's debateable. Sometimes physical ability alone can get you pretty far.

Actually he didn't, he took it to his agent and they took it to the authorities it appears and only after he quit the team. If he would have done that months ago maybe he'd still be with the team.

According to the Dolphins the first thing he did after leaving the facility was check into a hospital. I'd say "Illness" was spot on.

According to whom? I've not seen this allegation yet. You just assuming this or you have some evidence to suggest someone was covering something up?

Wouldn't exactly call it a leak. Martin told his agent about the abuse and his agent went to the media is my understanding. The wheels could have been churning since April at least it would appear.

No I wouldn't, in fact just the opposite. Using his fists to solve his problems would have been just as immature as saying nothing was.

nope.

Yep.

nope.

We clear Spider? I hope so because I'm not sure how else to make it any more clear.

So did you think I was equating mental toughness with being an intergalactic badass? Wow. I'm not sure you could have missed the mark any more with that aim. It's almost like you are purposely trying to cloud the discussion.

So to be clear, you're saying that Martin is "not mentally tough" (which is somehow different than just being a pussy) because he didn't go to the authorities sooner?

How can you possibly determine when he went to the authorities?

One guy is mentally weak and now they think everyone is at fault but him. This is one time when I would adamantly say the victim is probably the problem.

Outside of racists remarks, which could be taken out of context, I haven't seen anything wrong. Incognito called him "big weirdo" even on his twitter account. I have friends named Pork, Fatass and Tella Tubby who are like brothers. Think they picked their nicknames? I look at Vine and in two minutes find blacks and whites making white jokes and "n" jokes with their buddies. I've also seen Ritchie stand up for Martin on the field so I don't think it was all hell for Martin. He broke down and had to face his family so he threw people under the bus.

This happens in ANY other workplace and it's a massive lawsuit.

I'll say it again- the ENTIRE thing is indefensible at any level. I don't care if it happens on every team and has for years. Doesn't make any of it right or ok or acceptable.

CF- so you're saying it's ok and the victim is at fault when his family is threatened with violence? -EK

Great.  Do you have coworkers named Pork, Fatass and Tella Tubby?

Bucket head. Does that count? And this is government.

When I actually worked in construction building bridges we had Doughbelly, Pig Pen, Fudge Packer, Stink, and a bunch more I can't think of right now. Iron workers usually had the best and yes.. the "greenhorns" had to put up with a ton of crap. I've seen guys go without lunch because others ate it. I've had to buy mine because it happened to me. 

It happens in blue collar all the time. At least in the non union states.

I haven't seen any violence threats to family members and again.. It depends on the situation. Doesn't anyone talk smack with their friends? I get called a DolFag almost daily by some very good friends.

Well I can only assume that he didn't go to the authorities sooner because the NFL is just now investigating. If they would have been investigating this already I'd assume they would have already suspended Incognito, unless of course you are right and the whole thing has been covered up till now. That's a possibility I suppose, but I think it's a VERY small possibility.

Didn't ask if it happens all the time. I asked if you believe it is ok or right or if the victim should be blamed. -EK

From what I know of this case yes. If it turns out that things are different than what I've seen so far then maybe no.

I've paid my dues and felt good coming out the other side. I see kids today that you have to beg to work and am concern about out future. Quite honestly, each generation gets wimpier. Without technology this generation couldn't survive what the Greatest generation did. We'd be speaking German!!

As unpopular as it is with some I agree with CF wholeheartedly. These guys bust each others nuts on a daily basis and I have no idea what the context of that voicemail was. For all we know he could have been responding to a message that Martin sent to him.....we do not know all the facts. I'm not sure about the money thing and I am certain more will come out of that but getting upset over name calling I can't comprehend.

That is just me though....you can call me any name you want as often as you want and honestly I don't give a frosty fuck. I have skin that is thick as iron and you can't offend me. Because I am that way as a grown ass man I can't understand why another grown ass man would be so sensitive over being called some words. That I just can not comprehend!!!!!

It happens in offices as well, if you have a the right mix of people. One place I worked had an unofficial trophy called the Jackass Award that went to anyone who did something stupid (the inaugural winner put aluminum foil in the company microwave).

It's awesome that you guys have such thick skin and can take the abuse of others so well. I guess since neither of you walk using a cane or crutches, everyone else should be able to as well because they should just "man up" and make ambulation easier. -EK

And if EVERYONE in the office considers it okay, no problem.  If ONE person views it has harassment  the company is running the risk of losing a lawsuit.  

Yup that is exactly where I was going with that...... ::)

Well this post has a couple "assume"'s, a couple "would have"'s, toss in some "unless", "suppose", and a "possible"; and I'd say this post is completely BS.

I nominate this post for "Reach of the Year" award!!

How is it a reach at all? I think the fact that you don't see the connection is indicative of your POV as a whole. Just because something isn't offensive to you, doesn't mean it isn't offensive at all, or that the people who are threatened or offended by it should be blamed as you're doing with Martin. -EK

It's an environment and a culture that has been around since the league's inception. How many thousands have come through this fraternity just fine prior to Martin? If you don't want to participate then go home. Last I checked no one forced him to stay when he tried to leave.  This is an elite position. It isn't a government position with the post office.

A high ranking Dolphins source is telling the Miami Herald that Incognito has played his last game in a Dolphins uniform.  

These are "supposed" to be adults, grown men, professionals, etc.  Doing some pranks during pre-season, having the rookies pay for a dinner, is fine I guess.  But I go back to the point I made the other day, they are coming off a (4) game losing streak!!!  Why the heck are they playing pranks and hazing guys in the middle of the season, after four losses????

Sorry, what I meant to say was "The fact that the NFL is just now investigating is proof that he didn't go to the authorities sooner. Incognito would have been suspended months ago otherwise". Is that better? I can throw out statements with no basis in fact as well as anyone. I prefer to actually state my opinions just as they are, opinions. Sometimes I even add in a "That's just my opinion, I could be wrong" just to make it crystal clear that it is in fact just my opinion and not facts that I'm stating. Thanks for your constructive criticism.

i'm not a big fan of "it's been around for ages" argument as to why something is/isn't right or wrong.

bullying is wrong
harassment is wrong
threats are wrong
having fun at your workplace is right

#1, 2 and 3 trump #4 in my view

What would you have recommended Martin do?

That's the same perspective that was held in regards to players with concussion until recently. How's that working out for everyone involved? -EK

So this was Richie's idea of "reaching out" to Martin? ::)

What a scumbag - with friends like these, who needs enemas. >:(

I've got a feeling if Richie's ass ends up in jail, somehow he'll fit in with prison culture just fine. Seems like he's been trying to enforce it from his leadership position already, he shouldn't notice too much difference.

Will the Dolphin pro-shop be accepting exchanges for Incognito jerseys?

Sure, you can exchange your imaginary Richie Incognito jersey for an imaginary John Jerry jersey or an imaginary Michael Egnew jersey.

Did he kill someone?