The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

This story gets crazier every day and I imagine, as more comes out, it will continue in this direction.

I am reluctant to blame Martin at this point for anything, since I think that if the bullying is as bad as initially reported, that either telling, covering it up and pretending there's no issue, or going along with it to try to befriend the bully are all reasonable things to expect.

And there's more to come out with the Dolphins involvement -- did they send Incognito, how much did they know, etc? 

But...my main question is this -- is there any chance of a best case scenario? ...a situation where Martin returns, seeks resolution with Incognito and we have an "Eminem/Elton John" moment where something is learned and the entire community is better off for it?  I guess it's a pipe-dream, but rather than just kicking out everyone from both sides, perhaps a real resolution and change would do good for the locker room and football culture, in general.

More likely than kumbaya, I fear that this is going to end in Ireland, Philbin and 65-70% of the players being "dismissed" from the team.  The Dolphins will continue to be a laughing stock of the NFL as a new GM is hired, brings in "his coach" and "his players" and the Dolphins go another 10 years before having a winning season.

There's no way now.  Even if Martin was fully justified and every complaint he made is 100% legit, the team has basically closed ranks.  (For what it's worth, it would have been smart for Philbin to give the team this direction, as it's really the only outcome that doesn't result in the team completely coming apart at the seams.)

At this point, it would be like the girl in the Steubenville situation re-enrolling in the high school.  It's unsalvageable.

I don't think so.  

I think that ship has sailed.

Had yesterday, Pounce etc. said something along the lines of

"I knew Richie sometimes went a bit too far with Martin, but I had no idea it bother Martin that bad, if I knew I would have put a stop to it.  I as a membership leader council member feel particularly bad about this because it is my job to make help the younger guys.  I hope to see both of them back soon, particular Jon.  And when he comes back, I will have his back.  We as a team went too far."

Had that happen reconciliation would have been possible.

But instead too many members of the Dolphins have made it clear, Incognito is welcome back but not Martin.    

Funny, Tannehill said almost exactly this in his press conference yesterday.

http://www.miamidolphins.com/multimedia/videos/Tannehill-Speaks-Out-On-Incognito--Martin/9c46ba79-90bd-4056-b9dc-45c6a297e9d6

I think you guys are right and this is unsalvageable, but I don't know that it always was.

Had the Fins come out immediately and said that they wanted to correct everything and work with Martin to ensure a safe environment.....maybe.

But once all this talk about Martin being soft came out, I think it's over.

I think the Dolphins' silence in the first few days allowed the media to carry this story out of proportion.  The media has caused this by blowing this story up so much.

I don't think its unsalvageable, and I don't necessarily think the silence was the wrong move.  I am sad about the irresponsible journalism that has gone on the past 10 days.

I don't know. Everyone already kinda knew that Ireland was an ass anyway. No shocker there. He might have been fired after this year even if he had nothing to do with it.

Same thing is pretty much true of Incognito. The fact is he's still a pro-bowl caliber type of player and after the way the Dolphins players talked, I would think that Miami would want to bring him back if the NFL doesn't suspend him. If they don't somebody else will, they just won't be putting him on the leadership council.

Martin I don't think has a future in the NFL. Even worse then what Incognito did is what Martin is perceived to have done and that's taken it outside the locker room. The NFL and NFLPA like to keep this stuff handled inside the locker room if at all possible. I really wish that Martin would have spoken up and maybe this all could have been resolved in-house, but it wasn't. I'm not really convinced that Martin will even want to return to the NFL. He doesn't seem cut out for it.

I think Philbin is gonna make it through this. He's said all the right things so far. Unless there's a smoking gun out there with his name on it that hasn't surfaced yet, I don't see this costing him his job. If the Dolphins finish 6-10 or something, then he might lose his job.

It's not irresponsible journalism.  The voicemail exists.  If you choose not to address it, that's on you.  The videos of Incognito exist.  The reports from Martin exist.

The Dolphins haven't really made many statements and when they have, it's all over the place.

Regardless of what the truth of the allegations is, the team has handled this poorly.

C'mon Dave, you're a smart guy.  Read up - the voicemail exists but is incomplete and out of context.  Details matter.  I haven't seen a single report from MARTIN HIMSELF.  Just from his agent.  I want to see him speak publicly, please.

The media has been connecting dots with assumption and speculation.  First-hand accounts have refuted it every step of the way. 

How could they have addressed it that would have made it any better? Actually in this case I think they did the right thing. They had a press conference and stated their side. They told their players to say nothing for a day or 2 until the initial furor subsided and then they removed the gag order and let the players tell their side. It was gonna be ugly no matter what because that's what the media does. Not blaming the media in any way, this is what they do. They dig dig dig until there's nothing left to dig up and they move on to the next burial place.

Best thing the Dolphins can do now is say nothing and go win a couple games. This will all go away until the NFL report is out and then we'll see what shakes out from that. Probably nothing is my guess. Then they'll have a couple decisions to make, like whether to bring back Incognito and/or Martin.

The team didn't remove the gag order. The players did that entirely on their own against the "direct all questions to coach Philbin" directive they were given. I'm actually curious to see if the comments have any repercussions. I do think what they did was best for the team and possibly the NFL.

He might get another chance some where but Martin will never be trusted by players again. It will be hard for them to be themselves and not think he will store comments, jokes, actions etc. and again run to the media. The only grace he will have is if he can "prove" that he went to the leaders of the team and asked for help. Not coaches ... but other players. The players of the NFL pride themselves on policing their own teams and he broke that code.

I think if Martin goes to a team where the leadership knows him and can vouch for him (read: IND or SF), he will be fine.

Outside of that, he will likely have problems.

^^^ The 49ers are loaded on the O-line, starters and backups alike. No need for him in SF.

He can go anywhere the leadership wants him.  While it is more likelihood that Luck would want to stand up for him than Brady would...

But if Brady/Manning/Brees etc. were to stand up on the first day of camp and say, "I don't know what happened down in Miami and it doesn't really matter.  I do know what I have seen on game film -- and Jon is a hella of a right guard.  Best right guard in this room.  Anybody has a problem with Martin has a problem with me."

Then Martin will be fine.

And if BB concluded that Martin would benefit the NEP o-line and Brady agreed I am sure they would put winning before getting revenge for Martin "breaking the NFL code of honor"     

Am I the only one who sees the teams busting out laughing and looking for the "Punk'd" cameras? "I have seen on game film -- and Jon is a hella of a right guard.  Best right guard in this room."  Really? 

FACT:  The team suspended a player.  

So someone in the Dolphin's organization has concluded this is more than nothing.  Teams very very rarely suspended their own players.  

Either the Dolphins did a bigger jump to wrong conclusion than everyone in the media and this board combined OR they know this is a bigger problem they they are willing to admit.  

The "suspend now ask questions later" is not a new tactic, especially when they public has a target on everyone's head.

It would need to be a team in need. As he isn't exactly a pro-bowler.  

But lets say.... Dolphins release Martin.  NEP lose two OL to injures in the game against Panthers. Then in fact Martin would be significantly better than the O-lineman that would start instead of him.  We have one backup (Cannon) that is roughly equal to him in ability, then it falls off quickly.

And yes, I could see Brady/BB going to bat for him rather if they though he would help them win games.  

Right, happens all the time.

When was the last time a player was suspended by this own team?   

I was just kidding. Gees... Tough crowd!

He can play for the Raiders.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/07/terrelle-pryor-hats-off-to-jonathan-martin-for-being-a-man/

Do they need help on the o-line?

Yes and No. The Fins know a lawsuit is coming so playing it smart they do need to shut up (not so much the players but the front office people.) As I keep bringing up, look how Syracuse handled their scandal. Everyone had Bernie Fine dead to rights, guilty as sin, a monster. Jim Boehiem had to know about it, he is Joe Paterno 2.0. There was an hour long taped phone conversation that made them all look guilty. Then there was a real investigation (conducted by Wells, not to mention one done by the FBI as well) what comes out, all the accusers were lying, the taped phone call was cut up and played out of context... and nobody was guilty of anything. I know some here want to blame this one blame that one, point fingers, call for firings and such.....slow down!  Lots of times these stories snowball with no real facts or off rumors from shady individuals. Then when the truth comes out its very different from the original story.

Nope. You're not the only one. Because if they same film I've seen, they're begging their GM's right now to steer clear of Martin.