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ESPNs Adam Schefter is reporting that the Dolphins are likely to cut ties with Ireland and Philbin at the end of this season, regardless of the outcome

I am fine with firing Ireland, even if it's for the wrong reasons. Then again, I didn't really disagree with a lot of his moves this offseason, just maybe his drafting record.

As far as Philbin goes, I would rather fire the OC than him. You can't have a new coach every 2 years. If they fire him, bring in a proven winner like Cowher or don't bother.

Cowher isn't coming back to coaching.

Would probably see a Bill Polian/Lovie Smith type combo come to Miami. Established guys with impeccable reputations. Ireland I see as toast and one of the fall guys for this. Still say if Philbin takes this team to the playoffs it will be tougher to get rid of him. Unless he did order players to make Martin tougher and the "code red" type stuff then he's gone no matter what

This isn't breaking news.  Adam Schefter speculating about something this board has been speculating about for three days isn't news. 

Ireland/Philbin may not survive Bullygate, then again they might.  That ain't news. 

BTW - My prediction:

Ireland gone even if the Dolphins win the superbowl. (which ain't happening)

Philibin - maybe if he can pull the locker room together and make the playoffs he stays, if he loses Monday he can start packing. 

Upvote

I predict your next coach is a  coach with an establish record of zero tolerance for any type of hazing. 

If you are going to fire Philbin over bullygate you aren't going to hire a Mike Ditka to replace him.  (not that Ditka is trying to get back in, just using him as an example)

I think it will be a Lovie Smith type. Great reputation and someone who is respected in league circles.

Bigger question is who will the GM be. Does Ross turn to long-time friend Carl Peterson. Or does he go with Bill Polian. Or someone else

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/10/incognitos-refuses-to-talk-about-the-toughen-up-angle/

He talks, but pleads the 5th when it comes to if Philbin violated the CBA by ordering a code red in response to Martin missing a voluntary workout. 

Ted Wells isn't going to let him not answer the question. 

actually Wells can't force him to answer it. Not like Wells has a subpoena here or can make him answer it anyway with some threat that if he doesn't there is gonna be an "or else" type punishment. I think Richie will answer it because its in his best interest to answer it, but Wells really can't make him

Actually there may be a clause in NFL contracts requiring players to fully cooperate with any internal investigation. 

Ya can't force someone to answer a question he doesn't want to. This is a football investigation done by the NFL not a criminal one done by the Feds!  ::) Not like Wells can find stuff and throw someone in jail if he wants.

At this point, I am hoping Ireland gets fired so that LandShark and friends can find someone else to blame for everything.

Heaven forbid people should SUPPORT their team, rather than criticize. ::)

Call the turk, give them their walking papers, and punch them in the motuh on the way out.  ::)

Depends on your definition of force.

If Wells goes back to Goodell and says, "Here is my list of people who were obstructing my investigation" and Goodell says, "OK, these people now have 2-year suspensions without pay," no one has been forced to do anything, right?

No one forced Penn State employees to comply with Freeh's investigation but they damn sure did anyway.

The Penn St investigation was criminal in nature. This one isn't. Second, Goodell can't give a player a 2 year suspension for NOT answering a question. The NFLPA will be all over that. Hell guys who have served hard time for real crimes have had lesser suspensions. I think this whole debate is silly because I think all players will answer all questions in the end, but I was just pointing out nobody can be forced.

Ireland is done! At the press conference that just ended Ross heaped praise on Philbin and hardly mentioned Ireland. Not to mention at EVERY Ross press conference Ireland is always standing right next to him, like 100% of the time. This one Ireland wasn't there and Garfinkel was right next to Ross.

NFLPA President DeMaurice Smith just took a shot at Ireland in a statement. Ireland is done, he might not survive the year or the rest of this month. He is gonna be the fall guy in this. Ross keep heaping praise on Philbin in all media he is doing tonight. Clearly Ross is setting Ireland up to take the fall.

And he likely should be.  Regardless of what really happened between Martin and Incognito, Ireland brought both these clowns in and then suggested to Martin that he punch Incognito.  His track record for drafts and free agents is average at best, he is extremely unprofessional and has a bad reputation around the league. He needs to go.

No, it was not.  Freeh is not a detective, and his report was commissioned for the NCAA, who is not law enforcement.

I believe the term is "violation of personal conduct policy."  Goodell doesn't need an admission from Incognito; he can get enough information from other sources to drop the hammer when he likes.

Donte Stallworth got a shorter suspension than Gregg Williams.  Goodell's priority is the integrity of the league.

If Ireland is gone then there's at least one good thing that comes out of this mess...

I've changed my mind on this. I didn't think Philbin should be fired and have supported him all the way. Even after the Tampa game I didn't budge but I was listening to the radio yesterday and it made me change my mind.

Most of us don't like Saban because he bailed on us but the truth is he was a good "coach".  When he spoke players listened. Those of us that had a chance to meet him and hear him talk found him motivational. The kind of guy who could tell you to run through a wall and make you believe you could do it. I had a high school coach like that. Bill Bellichick is like that and so is Tony Dungy but in a friendlier package. That's the coach we need. Someone who not only teaches but inspires his players. As much as I like Joe he isn't that guy.

BTW Ireland is a given.

My wife says he looks like a high school principal.  I played the locker room speech he gave after the IND win, very uninspiring, almost scripted.  He looked down at a scrap piece of paper he had in his hand, as if to remember what just happened in the game he played not more than 20 minutes ago.  The speech didn't move me and it didn't seem to move the players IMO.  He talked very robotic and nothing seemed to come from the heart. 

She watched it and then said "Get rid of him".  LOL

Bill Polian and Tony Dungy won a Super Bowl in Indy.  I'd love to have them both in Miami

I'm on the fence about Philbin.  Until the past few days, I felt he should be given another year.  Now I'm not so sure.  I won't be surprised or upset if he stays or if he goes.   

My support for Philbin was based on what I saw the first 3 weeks of the season.  Not just the wins, but how we won.   Even with our deficiencies, the team played very smart and disciplined football.  I don't believe that was smoke and mirrors, but I don't know why the wheels seemed to come off after the New Orleans game.  I'd like to think that Philbin could recapture that, but maybe too much has happened. 

Yeah because Tom Landry was such a great motivator. Shula too for that matter. Has Belicheck ever said anything inspirational? What the Shula, Landry and Belicheck teams all have in common however were great leaders on the field. This is all that Philbin is lacking, some great players. He's a good head coach, he just needs more players. I'd like to see him stay around a few more years and give him a chance to really do something.

I'm all for getting rid of Ireland though. He's had plenty of chances and while I don't think he's been as bad as most think he's been, he sure as heck hasn't been good enough to keep him around. And I don't buy into the theory that if you fire the GM you have to bring in a new head coach. No you don't. A GM's job is to find players, not find the right coach. If the GM thinks he has to pick his own head coach, I don't want him. A good GM believes that he can find the right players no matter who the coach is.

I don't want to get rid of either, at least until next year.  Philbin reminds me a lot of Dungy and I think Ireland has made some good decisions that have been overshadowed by the while Dez Bryant thing, not having full control under Parcells and this whole bullygate thing.  I think each deserves one more year after this one to prove they should keep their jobs. 

I want to pose a question:  if we make it into the playoffs, do you still want to get rid of one or the other, or both?  What if we get in and win a game?

I'm ready to see Ireland go. I have been unimpressed with his player evaluation skills since day one on the job.

You really don't think these guys were motivators ... much less Shula?  I don't think you grasp the concept of what motivates people.  It isn't a Tony Robbins "you can do it" mentality.

Shula was very disciplined who was known to hold grueling, punishing practices that focused on perfect execution and technique. He sometimes made them practice 4 times a day without water and yet people like Bob Griese said ... " I was ready to follow him into battle anywhere". If he wasn't able to motivate them they would have quit on him.   

This is a little short-sighted. Generationally, there's such a gap between Griese and most current players, there really can't be a comparison drawn. What motivated people in the 1970s doesn't motivate people 40 years later. The things that Bob Knight used to "motivate" his players early in his career got him fired later in it. -EK

Thanks CF. Seeing a Dolphin fan consider Shula a non-motivator blew my mind.

Nick Saban is very similar and people kill themselves for the guy.

Bellichick uses "old school" humor and humiliation to keep his players hungry.  He denies respect to athletes who have been given respect their entire athletic careers including Tom Brady.

After Patriots rookies are handed their playbooks, if they are fortunate, a veteran will pull them aside and prep them for the devastating beatdown that each of them invariably will experience.

Most learn to take it; some never can. Those players do not last in the Patriots’ organization.

“The idea is to take it personally,” Bruschi said. “Bill wants you to do that. You get angry, and you get embarrassed. But then you get to the point where you want to fix it, and fix it badly.”

Deion Branch said if you are looking for positive feedback to soothe your ego, New England is the wrong place to play. The idea, he said, is to push you to the brink, then reel you back in so “you can prove Bill wrong.”

“He never compliments you,” linebacker Rob Ninkovich said. “He’ll throw you a little something once in a while, but it’s never, ‘Good job.’ It’s more like, ‘Well, you did a little better with this.’”

This, from the most intellectual coach in football.

How else is Belichick supposed to motivate a guy like Tom Brady, who already has three Super Bowl rings, wealth, social status, and Giselle?  By denying him what everyone else gives him: respect.

That's not what they were known for, no. They were terrific teachers. You either learned or you went home. End of story. They DEMANDED self motivation which is actually different from being great motivators.

Tom Landry Quote (http://www.goodquotes.com/quote/tom-landry/i-don-t-believe-in-team-motivation-i-b)

...which he wouldn't be allowed to do it today since it would be against league rules.  Shula would have a real tough time coaching in today's NFL.

Out of respect for him, not because Shula was a great motivator. Griese was a great player and would have followed any coach who forced them to be perfect. Shula wasn't a great "speech" guy, he was a fantastic "We are gonna do it over and over and over till we get it right" guy. I see Landry and Belicheck as pretty much the same thing. They lead by example not because they get up in front of the room and make an impassioned speech which is what was said in the thread. Landry was boring to listen to. Same with Belicheck. Shula had a little more personality, but it was a lot more his work ethic that he brought to the Dolphins then it was his half time or pre-game speeches. By that time his work had already been done.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

What does any of this have to do with locker room speeches? The thought process was someone overheard Philbin giving a speech and said he wasn't a motivator and therfore not a good coach. I disagreed. Nothing above has anything to do with that. This is more about teaching and guys wanting to learn. Either they do and they play or they don't and they leave. I don't think Tom Brady gets motivated because Belicheck tells him to be, rather Brady was motivated to play well and Belicheck showed him how to play well. Brady already had the motivation, Belicheck just showed him how to use it to become a great player.

Shula couldn't handle the new breed of players and didn't do well with character issues.  The end result was the 1995 season.

I gotta ask, since this has been brought up- wtf do these guys need "motivation" for? The money and glory and desire to win isn't enough motivation to stay with? At THAT level? Once you're a pro athlete isn't that really a non-issue? I don't recall Larry Bird or Michael Jordan needing "motivation" from their coaches. As I recall, they were the first to practice, last to leave, and played through all kinds of injuries because they were intrinsically motivated and that was more than enough.

I won three National powerlifting titles with no coach, no teammates, no cheerleaders, and no salary because it was an amateur sport. I was working full time and in graduate school and I didn't need someone there to "motivate" me to train. And I was considered an amateur athlete. These pros actually need someone to "motivate" them? Weak. -EK

There is no "formula."   

BB's approach works for him.  Mangini and Daniels tried to copy it and it was a disaster.   

Pete Carroll's approach works for Pete.  But in no way shape or form resembles BB.

For Philbin to be successful he needs to be Philbin not pretend to be someone else. 

No matter what side you fall on in the debate if Martin/Incognito, it is obvious that using Incognito to "assist" Martin was a coaching mistake. 

Hindsight is 20/20.

I don't presume to know all the facts surrounding this and I doubt any of us will ever really know what exactly happened. The NFL will do their investigation and they will probably get to about 80% of what really happened. Whatever they decide, I'll accept it. If they think Philbin should be fined or whatever for his role in all of this, then I'll believe that he should have done something different and maybe should lose his job over it. If not, then I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he did anything wrong. Maybe he *could* have done things differently, but that doesn't mean that what he did was obviously wrong.

There has been nothing but accusations, contradictions, lies, half truths, speculation and misinformation from day 1. Everyone is free to make up their own mind, but to state that ANYTHING is obvious right now just isn't being impartial.

Here is what is OBVIOUS...the Dolphins right now are a mess. 

Was the mistake signing Incognito?  Maybe.

Was the mistake drafting Martin?  Maybe.

Was the mistake allowing certain things to go on unchecked?  Maybe.

Was the mistake not knowing enough about what was happening in the locker room?  Maybe.

The specifics are a maybe.  That the leadership of the Miami Dolphins fucked up something.... that is an absolute given. 

I don't know. They have won 2 out of 3 while this MESS has been going on. They don't really seem to be any more of a mess then they were when they lost 4 in a row before any of this happened. If you consider that this has been going on since last year as many have suggested then they also won 3 in a row to start the season. Did they do that without leadership? Did the leadership that was there for those 3 games disappear? Were Incognito and Martin the leaders then? Perhaps NONE of this has anything whatsoever to do with leadership and is just typical of an average team like most of the other teams in the NFL. Do the Jets only have leadership every OTHER game?

Most people are just bandwagoning and have little to no real insight into what has been going on all year in the Dolphins locker room. Sure there were grumblings from a few folks about lack of leadership before the season, but then when they went 3-0 no one was talking about a lack of leadership. Then they go 0-4 and have this mess and then everyone KNOWS it's a leadership issue. Sorry, but that's real convenient based on the circumstances, but it's not obvious, it's speculation.

What's obvious to me is that Martin has been a troubled individual since the beginning of training camp when he was contemplating leaving the team. Beyond that, I'm not really sure what is obvious.

After his wife Dorothy died he got soft ... even on his kids.


Motivation is not required to include a speech. I never mentioned a speech.  If your whole point is they didn't/don't give motivational speeches inthe locker room then that's another story ... although a strange point to make given they no doubt motivate people to be their best.


So EK won an amateur event means millionaires do not need to be motivated to be their best?  C'mon ... man ... sometimes I really am curious if you are who you say you are and saying something stupid like that only reinforces that.

I've competed on many different levels for numerous sports. Am friends with professional athletes and former professional athletes. Very few people, if any, don't need someone to push them.tot get their best out of them.

You said this...

And then Hordman said this...
I took both of these comments to be cut from the same cloth that basically that a good coach was a good motivator. I quoted Hordman when I responded, so it was pretty clear which comments I was referring to.

Regardless, I stand by my comments that I don't think Shula, Landry, Saban or Belicheck are all that motivational, they are good football coaches which to me means they are good teachers of the game of football. These guys don't motivate players to play well, they take self motivated, athletic players and teach them how to make the most of their talents.

CF- And I've trained alongside pro bodybuilders and powerlifters and trained a current NFL tackle. None of them ever needed any motivation. Refer back to Bird and Jordan.

You've competed at numerous levels? High school? Pee wee league? AAU? Honestly, unless you were nationally ranked for multiple years, please don't compare your background and mine. Olympic athletes are amateurs as well. That doesn't diminish what they do. And my national records and placings are still accessible on the net. I have no need to "prove" that I am who I say I am. -EK

Bird and Jordon. That settles it. I can't figure out why everyone isn't just as talented? 

I still think you're a phony. You're not the only one here to make up a complete identity.   

I would list my creds but I don't need to be an internet hero. 

Nothing else to fuel your argument now besides personal attacks? Well simply tell me what it would take to convince you. I'll link the meet results, the Monster Muscle magazine pic of my triple body weight bench press, my personal website, whatever you want. It's all out there publicly, but I'll save you the trouble. What's in it for me? -EK

^^this actually made me laugh, Mike. Thanks for the lolz. I might be a jerk, an a-hole, a hard-headed, disputatious jackass and a (gasp) Panthers can, but what possible motive would I have for making that stuff up? And of all the things to make up, why that? It's fairly odd and specific. So, whatever. I have nothing to hide. If CF wants "proof" I'll give him whatever he's asking for. If not can we get back on topic? I'm sorry I ever mentioned athletes and motivation. I didn't mean to derail everything. -EK

I saw that gif and thought Landshark posted it.  ;D

he did.. a few times .. i removed all of them .. a single gif being posted by itself is not acceptable on any of the boards .. sorry .. it's a long standing rule .. and while the thriller gif might have been funny the first 37 times it was posted .. times 38-90023 have been tiresome ..

I disagree. It was funny the 23,769th time.  BUT JUST THAT ONCE.

This is so true.  Saban is the most impressive person I've ever met in the inspiration regard.  Listening to him was hypnotic.

Was that all Saban or was some of that the event? Was that the first of the Web Weekends or had you had a similar experience already?

wanny was the first web weekend .. not impressive in person

No it's just Saban's persona. Some people have a leadership quality that makes people want to follow them and he certainly has it.

Not impressive on the sideline either.

Saban talked to our group for just a few minutes.  I have done the same with many other Dolphin personas at all levels of management, including Parcells, Wanny, Mike Dee, Ireland, Sparano, several players, etc.

Each had the things about them that was admirable.  I always liked talking with Wanny and he gave good answers.  Ireland, too.  But something about Saban, man.  ...he just owned the room.  And he told stories that weren't about football.  It was like he was raising a group of men to do the best job possible.  The football aspect was almost a side-note.  I was ready to go to war for him.  It's so weird, because I recognized it that same day that...wow...I can see why this guy is as successful as he is.

It was as if he had an aura about him that was "I'm going to be the best with or without you.  If you want to come along for the ride, you gotta get on my level.  If not, someone else will."