The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Last night MNF game between the Pats and Panthers ended with a controversial play.  It appeared that there was a clear pass interference penalty on a receiver in the end zone.  The ref threw a flag, but after some discussion, the flag was picked up and the game was over.

The announcers were in disbelief, and despite an explanation from a rules expert (ex head of officials?), they felt the Pats were royally screwed.

To recent comment from our good friend Hoody (when referring to a recent call against the Dolphins) sums up my feelings today - "It was a terrible call, and I couldn't be happier". 
 

I don't think it was a terrible call.  I think it was the right call.

The ball was already on the way and it was grossly underthrown, Gronk's route was cut off by , and there's no chance of him even getting close to the play, much less actually making a play.  If anything, the receiver getting in his way just slowed Gronk and made it look like there was a chance at it.

In fact, I wish this were taken into consideration more often.  Giving the flag there would gift the Patriots yards that they didn't earn.  Had the defender not touched Gronk at all, there's no chance at a play on the ball.  The contact, in that case, didn't matter at all.

That was an awful call. They could have called PI or holding.....take your pick. Not to mention he was face guarding Gronk and the defender had no idea where the ball was which also draws a flag.

I'm not gonna cry because I hate NE and am glad they lost but the Pats got screwed lets just be honest about it. That call was beyond terrible. Now all it would have done is give NE one more play so who knows if they score anyway but still....that was one of the worst calls ever!

^^^ PI does not count if the ball is uncatchable. I'm going to need to look up the video.

I don't think it can be holding because the ball is in the air.  And I don't think faceguarding applies either, since it was away from the play.

I think this all hinges on the fact that there's no way Gronk can make a play on the ball since it's way behind him and he has momentum away from the play already. 

It was holding. He was bear hugging Gronk. I don't care if the ball is in the air or not you can't hold a receiver. And holding doesn't matter if he can make a play on the ball or not. If a CB was holding a WR on the other side of the field, doesn't matter that the ball was thrown to another WR or TE. Holding is Holding!

It was a bad call....no way to spin this Dave

It was the right call... No way to spin this.


Rule 8, Section 5, Article 3 Permissible Acts
Article 3 Permissible Acts by both teams while the ball is in the air. Acts that are permissible by a player include, but are not limited to:
(c) Contact that would normally be considered pass interference, but the pass is clearly uncatchable by the involved players, except as specified in 8-3-2 and 8-5-4 pertaining to blocking downfield by the offense.

-EK

I think holding might have been the right call to make in this instance.

I watched that replay a few times, and I think a holding call would have been the right one as well.

This site- which is a Pats site, btw- breaks down the entire play and every possible rule violation and why it was the CORRECT call. If you understand the rules as they are laid out, there's not a dispute.

http://www.patspulpit.com/2013/11/19/5121100/rules-breaking-down-the-final-play

Cliff's notes: once the ball leaves the QB's hands, holding is no longer an infraction. The only possible call that can be made is PI. The ball wasn't catchable, so there's no PI call. End of story. -EK

The author of that piece is not a Patriots fan.  He recently was promoting a theory that the entire Bill Belichick coaching tree is double agents.  (Left the team but remained loyal to BB and purposefully lose when playing the Patriots). 

By rule, you cannot call defensive holding when the ball is in the air.  It's pass interference or nothing.

Pass interference cannot apply on a ball deemed uncatchable (or if it's tipped before reaching the target).

^^^ I was wondering about that but did not know if it was a college rule and not NFL. I have not seen the official write-up but ESPN said they pulled it and it made no mention at all about the ball in the air.

I defer to your knowledge on that, but it doesn't detract from the fact that the explanation is correct and as Spider and I both pointed out, the only possible call was PI, which was not called because the ball was not catchable. -EK

EK quoted the rule. Seems pretty clear. Just another example of a rule the talking heads get wrong every time.

If that was not PI, than 90% of the PI flags I have seen should not have been thrown. 

I'm admitting that this is normally called.  But it shouldn't be.  PI is called way too often on plays where the receiver has no chance at a play.  In my opinion, this is the right call.

Patriots didn't get the benefit of a call....News at 11:00.  >:D

This type of thing happens every week to the Dolphins and no one gives a shit. Happens to the Patriots and even though every last player on NE is saying the same thing, that it wasn't that last play that determined the outcome of the game, is was the other 59:57 and yet still everyone is up in arms about it. It's a non issue. Carolina deserved the win. Maybe the Patriots should have had 1 more play at the 1 with no time, but no guarantee they would have scored. I'm not convinced they weren't right to pick up the flag, it was a judgement call and the refs all got together and decided to wave it off. They've done this same thing in practically every game I've seen all year at least once. So it happened on the last play of the game, that doesn't make it a bad call. I'm not saying it was the right call, I'm simply saying that it could have gone either way and it went against NE for a change.

It was a blown call.....seriously to say otherwise is silly. That gets called 99 out of 100 times. This happened to be the 1 time. The ONLY reason the ball is un-catchable is because the defender is damn near tackling Gronk and not letting Gronk make a play for the ball.

Even if they make the call it doesn't mean NE wins, just gives them another play.

^^^While he is draped by the defender, I do not see Gronk's body indicating in any way that he is trying to get to the ball. He never plants his feet as if he is trying to move forward.

Kinda tough to do that with a guy hanging on ya. Whatever...I'm glad the refs blew the call and the Pats lost. So whatever.  Not the first blown call in NFL history and it won't be the last

Gronk is actively running in the opposite direction of the ball.  You're right that this is often called and I don't see many people disputing that.  But, by the rulebook, it's the right call.  More importantly, by the play on the field, it's the right call.  If you remove all of the contact and the defender isn't even touching Gronk, there's no way that he even has a chance at touching the ball with any part of his body.

And Spider is right.  It CANNOT be holding, since the ball is in the air.

No guarantee, but Brady on the one yard line is pretty good odds for a TD.

Gronk wasn't running out of bounds.  Do you really think he is an idiot?  He was thrown out of bounds. 

I don't think he was running out of bounds, but I think that the defender was not grabbing him (first off) and instead was draped, impeding him, if anything.  But, if I recall correctly, Gronk is turning and the ball isn't in the vicinity.

Gronk never even stepped out of bounds

Oh well. Patriots finally don't get a call their way.  :'(

On the other hand, there are at least 1 or 2 blown calls in just about every game, so what makes this one special?

I've clearly linked the rules. If anyone can explain how this was a blown call, based on those rules, not what is "usually" called, or what YOU think should be called, I'd love to hear it. You can't call holding because the ball was out of Brady's hands. You can't call PI because the defender who intercepted was in front of Gronk. Even if no one was touching him, how do you suppose he was going to miraculously teleport from behind the defender to in front of him to make the catch? -EK

agree. It was the final play of the game and it was a Monday Night game. So this blown call gets more attention

For once a break does not go the Pats way....I think it is fantastic!!!!!  ;D

EK really is right. Even if that LB wasn't in Gronk's way, he was not going to make that catch. He could have tried but there was no way he could contort his body with the momentum he had to even get close to trying to stop the guy who caught the ball.

https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmsports/adam-schein-thought-the-non

He had no chance to make that catch, it was a terrible throw by Brady. If it even landed at Gronk's feet then the flag is legit, but he was about 5 yards away from it.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/19/dean-blandino-i-wouldnt-say-the-officials-got-it-wrong/

The league is being wishy-washy on whether the call was correct. They aren't endorsing the call

Ball was uncatchable so no PI.  It's as simple as that.

What's the deal with the call anyway?

Isn't the real story here that the "joke of a team" Panthers, with their "shitty" and overrated QB have now won 6 in a row, including wins at SF and now against NE? Isn't that the REAL story? -EK

They aren't saying it was a bad call either. Judgement call. The refs discussed. They made a ruling. They picked up the flag. This is what they are supposed to do. If the flag had been thrown and the Patriots win the game, Carolina would have had just as much reason to bitch about the call.

It's a good win for Carolina, be a shame if they were to have a let down the following week against some nobody team. :)

Carolina is a solid team. Not a super bowl team but a very good team. Above average team

i love it when the patriots get screwed.

The ratio of bullshit calls for and against the pats is like 100 to 1 in favor of pats getting bullshit calls. it is always nice to see something go against them. still got a long way to go before it's even though.

Very good, solid teams become super bowl teams. All you have to do is make the dance.

True. But with Seattle and the Saints I don't think this is Carolina's year. They are going in the right direction though

The call has brought so much joy how could it possibly be wrong.

Nothing involving the Patriots brought more joy than the 2007 Super Bowl