The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

I'm sure you've all seen the report by now.  The quick version is that there is an on-track incident between Stewart and Kevin Ward, Jr.  Ward crashed, then got out of his car and walked down the track to yell at Stewart.  When Stewart came back around, he struck Ward, killing him.   There are conflicting reports of whether or not Stewart "revved" to try and startle Ward, causing him to go sideways and clip Ward.  Others say that the rev comes from a different car.

I watched the video of the incident and based off it, I don't think you can assign blame to Stewart.  The guy gets run over by the back of the car as its sliding.  I know that Stewart is a hot-head, historically, but it's just hard to put fault on anyone except for the guy running into traffic on a race track.

From what I can see, Stewart is pretty broken up about this.  He withdrew from today's race

I feel terrible for the driver, but why walk down the track to yell at him? Get out of the way and talk to him afterwards.

I heard on the radio this morning that it wasn't even Stewart that sent him into the wall, but he thought it was...

Still, you are a professional driver - who runs onto the track during a race?

This isn't the first time we've seen someone go after a moving car but it is the first time I can recall a tragedy like this. What a sad event.

I've seen it a bunch of times on asphalt. I wouldn't recommend it and I think adding the dirt track only multiplies the danger.

I hate to say this, but I think a death needed to happen to force change.  This kind of behavior is very common, even at the highest levels of racing.  Guys are constantly running down the track yelling and even throwing things at passing cars.  They've gotten slaps on the wrist in the past, but I imagine a zero tolerance rule is on the horizon.

Racing is already a dangerous business, and bad decisions can cost you.

Running on to a race track to accost a driver in a moving car...bad decision.

Running on to a race track to accost "the wrong driver" in a moving car...really bad decision.



This wouldn't surprise me at all. They may not be on the endangered species list, but someone has to save the rednecks from killing themselves off!!

Good luck with that. My wife was an only child and we have two girls. This means my wife has no ideas how boys really are. I tell her the average boy is lucky to make it to adulthood with all the stupid things we did growing up. add in redneck ingenuity and it definitely increases the danger level!

The advantage of having boys is that with boys you only have to worry about one dick, with girls you have to worry about every dick.

But having that one penis just increases your chances of doing something stupid and dying young

My sympathy goes to the family of Kevin Ward.  But I don't think Stewart is at fault. Why did Kevin get out of his vehicle to run on the track with many fast moving vehicles. It was a dumb move that cost him his life.  I would have dealt with him on the sidelines

I hear news outlets focusing on an investigation and charges filed (or more specifically that charges were not filed).  ...but charges for what?  Even if Tony Stewart saw that guy from around the track, intentionally sped up and ran him over in cold blood, you still can't put him in jail for that.  There's no way we can get into Tony Stewart's head and Ward's actions automatically absolve Stewart of any legal wrong-doing, in my mind.

It's like jumping the barrier and running up to the targets at the gun range.

Bwhaaat? You are way off base. You basically just used the, "she asked for it" defense to excuse first degree murder. It's more like having someone jump the barrier at the range and then having someone say, "look at that guy down range, I'm going to shoot anyway."

First of all, it's not first degree murder.   It's not pre-meditated.  It would be manslaughter, if anything.

But even then, I'm not defending Stewart on a moral level; just a legal one.  He has to be given all benefit of the doubt, considering the victim willing ran onto an active racetrack.  What legal ground could you possibly have to prosecute?

The fact that you said Tony saw him from across the track and then sped up and then purposely hit him is the very definition of pre-meditation. Tony didn't have to leave the house with this in mind. There is no time limit on how far in advance someone has to plan something.

Now if your argument is that it is hard to prove Tony willingly did any of this, I would say that is correct. I don't think that comes across very clear if that is your point though. Your argument seems to be that the victim's actions are the exclusion of any legal wrongdoing which I don't think is a valid argument.

I don't believe that to be true, but I think that's a different conversation.


...not just hard to prove -- impossible to prove unless he said into his microphone that he's going to try and hit the guy.  So impossible to prove that it's not even worthy of trying.

And yeah, I'm kinda saying that if you walk into oncoming traffic on a racetrack, you're kinda waiving your legal rights to safety from cars.  At that point, the other driver's are not responsible for your safety.  And unless Tony just comes out and says "yeah, I killed that kid on purpose", I don't think it's even worth discussing, from a legal perspective.

While not exactly on topic this reminds me of a local thing we had happen.

We used to have a bus races amongst police officers during "kids and cops night" at the New Smyrna racetrack. Our sheriff ran into another sheriff and knocked him out of his bus and then ran him over ... subsequently killing him. 

In the 70s I also remember a driver (Steve Rumbough)  running over another driver (Gary English) in the pitts of New Smyrna and then driving through the back gate to get away from angry people. English broke his pelvis (I think) as well as other injuries but I don't think charges were ever filed because it happened on a race track.  Again ... it was the 70s.

With all the crazy stuff that happens there it's hard to believe nice guy Mark Martin comes from there .. LOL

The big controversy I hear is that Stewart gases it when the guy reached instead of swerving away. I've been lead to believe that these sprint cars drive like a jet ski and you have to gas it to turn, otherwise he would have hit the guy head on and not with his back tire when he drifted the sprint car.  Other than extreme media personalities like Nancy Grace who know nothing about racing, I'm not hearing anyone call for Stewart's head.

Believe what you want but you would be wrong.


Actually you can determine intent from conduct.

If Tony failed to do what a reasonably prudent person would do upon noticing a person on the race track than he is guilty of negligent homicide.

If his action were reckless than he is guilty of manslaughter.

If his action were represented a wanton disregard for someone else safety than it is murder.

If he was purposefully aiming at Ward it is first degree murder.

Based on the facts as I know them he is either not guilty of criminal conduct or guilty of negligent homicide.  But your legal analysis is seriously flawed. 

I just don't see how you could ever consider that pre-meditated.   Even if he meant to do it....if that's the case, when is a murder not pre-meditated?

Regardless of what his intentions are, you can't be in a position to ever know.  All you can do is speculate. 

The problem with determining his intent from conduct is that it would be extremely difficult to determine exactly what his conduct was, especially on a track like that.

Let us say, for the sake of argument, that the revved engine on the tape is conclusively proven to be Stewart's (which is no small feat to prove).  Stewart could very well say that, given that Ward was already running on the track, he tried to dart away at the last second to keep Ward from running even further onto the track in pursuit.

Part of the argument against Stewart rests on the idea that he is an expert with perfect control of his vehicle, and intentionally sideswiped this guy that he could have easily avoided.  But if Stewart was enraged and meant to run him over, why would he have fishtailed into him instead of just plowing him over?  Either he has total control, or he doesn't.

Maybe he intended to fishtail into him to make it look like he was trying to avoid him! Clever Tony Stewart.

There are plenty of times when murder is not premeditated. You walk in on your wife having sex with another man pull out your gun and shoot them, unless you had time to pause and think about things that is murder but not premeditated.  Rob some one and accidentally shoot him.  That is murder, specifically felony murder, but not premeditated murder.  If the driver instance intended to strike the victim and cause him great bodily harm but did not intent do kill him, then his conduct would be murder but not premeditated murder.

 
If that was the case nobody could ever be convicted of a crime that had an intent element.  We can judge intent by conduct. 

In this specific case the conduct does not suggest murder.  But that doesn't mean we can't use conduct to determine intent. 

Stewart not to be charged in the death. Toxicology reports indicating Ward was high when we meandered into oncoming cars. -EK

^ High on what?

Marijuana. Apparently enough to impair his rational judgement. -EK

I am 100% confident that I have smoked more pot than anyone on this board over the past 38 years, and I cannot fathom marijuana alone, no matter how much you smoked, causing a person to wander out onto a race track.

Having never smoked anything in my life, I have no idea. Just going off what CBS sports radio broadcasted. -EK

I could see smoking enough to impair your judgement enough to hit on a fat chick at the bar, but wander out onto a race track? That sounds like someone either has no clue what they're talking about, or they're pushing a severe anti-marijuana agenda.

Screw that, he was racing while high? How the hell did that not screw him up? Some guys can't do 25 MPH while high without hitting the curb and he was in a fucking race car?

^^^ But some people have no problem with it. I taught a DoD level 3 defensive driving course while high every day. I also do math better when properly buzzed.  Marijuana affects different people in different ways.

I knew a dirt track driver that was high on marijuana, pills, and had a few drinks before every race. The guy happened to be a pretty good driver.

I know people who function better while high as well.

The bottom line is that if the amount of marijuana Ward smoked didn't impair him enough to make him unable to drive a race car, it wasn't enough to impair his rational judgement enough to get him to wander out onto the race track.

I'm fairly certain I've seen you smoke as much in one day than I have in my entire life! LOL

Anything that alters the mind causes a person to make decisions that they normally wouldn't make. I mean ... isn't altering one's perception the reason for getting high/drinking etc.?

Consider me crazy, fine, but I'd think that auto racing would be the one place where DUI/DWI was strictly disallowed.  Maybe I'm naive.

Wellll, ya know he did crash into the wall, so maybe it did impair his driving ability.

The amount, and regularity of usage, also determines how it affects your behavior.  I know people who smoke every day, the good stuff (no really, the GOOD stuff), and it barely affects them because they have built up such a tolerance, as I'm sure you have.  Others, who only occasionally smoke can get wasted off a couple puffs.  Not much different than functioning alcoholics that get up in the morning and start drinking, and you'd never know it because they have built up such a high tolerance.  What Ward's tolerance level was is unknown.