The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

I keep hearing its playoffs or bust for Philbin and Hickey but I have to disagree. I can see a few scenarios of us not making the playoffs and them getting one more year. I think it is pretty obvious that we are a better team and seem to be getting better. Two of our losses were us leaning on the strength of our team and they failed to cover. Either way ... we were in a position to win with moments remaining and that is a pretty nice goal to reach. Our O-line is still our weak link with our running game a distant second but I would hope that will change in the off season. Either way, the remainder of the team has shown to be good enough to compete withe just about anyone.

Does this mean things are getting perfect? Absolutely not but we are heading in the right direction and that is more than we have done in forever and a day.

At least 9-7 or he's definitely fired.  Measurable improvement is necessary.

If MIA is sitting at 9-5 (or even 10-4) at the end of week 15 and Philbin manages to lose to two cellar-dwellars to end the season AGAIN, with the result being no playoff appearance, this will also result in his firing.

I think Philbin should be kept around if this team shows improvement.  A 10-6 finish would definitely help his cause, playoffs or not. 

However, knowing Ross likes the good publicity, if this team fails to make the playoffs and Harbaugh suddenly becomes available, Ross will go after him.

Remember one thing about Ross, he can have his cake and eat it too here with Jim Harbaugh. The one thing Ross loves more than the Fins is Michigan Football and he donates a ton of money to that school. And Michigan will be in the market for a new head coach at seasons end.  Harbaugh went to Michigan and is at the top of the schools list right now. Ross could keep Philbin on in Miami and help Michigan land Harbaugh to coach their football team. Then have an in with Harbaugh with all of his ties at Michigan, so when the day comes he has to replace Philbin, he has him already in the pipe-line waiting in the wings. And that would make Ross a very happy man!

I don't see Hickey being let go, this draft class is the best Miami has had in a long time.  Philbin will probably be kept around for another year, unless he keeps calling stupid time outs to lose more games.  At this point Philbin is riding the coattails of his offensive and defensive coordinators.

That's no secret though...he has said from day one that he let's his coordinators call the plays and he oversees it.

There is absolutely no reason to even have a conversation about firing Dennis Hickey.  Why is his name even in this thread?  The way I see it, he is one of the main reasons why we have seen improvement this season.

Because he is linked to Philbin. No way they fire one and keep the other. Their contracts are linked up for a reason. If Miami ends the season badly you think they will fire Philbin and keep a GM with 1 year left on his deal? Not gonna happen. Then go and and hire a new head coach to a 4 or 5 year deal when your GM is in the final year of his deal? Common sense Brian. Either both stay or both go.  Unless you want to give Hickey an extension and keep him here for years based on what? 2 good draft picks?!

James and Landry are both contributing at a high level, two home runs no doubt. After that we got nothing. Turner isn't even active and we need help on the o-line so what does that say. Aikens is nowhere to be found. Lynch is out for the year and was very bad in practices before he got hurt. Tripp is just playing special teams. Hazel is on the practice squad. And Fede is a total project who has been active for only 5 games (the games with no Dion Jordan really.) Not expecting every player he drafted to be a home run year 1...but we are getting contributions from only 2, let's be honest. Again, that's good...just not enough to lock up job security in the short term no matter what.

I am NOT knocking Hickey, he had a good first draft and he signed Albert...but let's be fair, he hit on 2 picks as of now and signed 1 free agent of note. Granted better than Ireland but doesn't mean he has job security locked up for next year and beyond. If we end the season badly and Philbin is let go then Hickey should be let go too!

Hickey's free agent acquisitions have been very good overall; an absurd improvement over Ireland, who was incredibly bad in that regard.

Albert and Finnegan. Who else?

Shelly Smith was riding the pine till Albert went down. Yes a huge improvement over Ireland but again, not enough to secure a job for years and beyond in Miami if the season ends badly

Earl Mitchell.  Louis Delmas.  Samson Satele.

Louis Delmas and Earl Mitchell have played extremely well.  And Samson Satele is having a banner year

I will give him Mitchell and Delmas (they slipped my mind honestly). Not giving him Satele because they only signed him once Pouncey went hurt, it was a last resort move out of necessity

But who made that last resort move out of necessity? Was it Hickey? Or was it the Pakistani who owns the dry cleaners down the street?

If you answered "Hickey," you're catching on...


Samson Seattle...able to leap tall Space Needles in a single bound!

I don't see why you would give him credit for finding diamonds in a diamond mine (Albert, Mitchell, Delmas), but no credit for finding a diamond in a trash heap (Satele).

Signing Mitchell was also a move out of necessity as they lost Paul Soliai in free agency.

Knowshon Moreno

I would stop short of calling that a good signing.  The man had one good game then was hurt.  The only reason he became a Dolphin was because of his injury proneness.

They didn't lose Soliai, they refused to re-sign him. Big difference

Doesn't diminish the necessity.  You still have to replace him.

Assuming that Harbaugh even wants to work for Ross which I don't get the impression that he does.

I think he would if the conditions were right.  Think about this for a moment.  Would you want to go work for an owner who has a GM with a bad reputation around the league and has not yet fired his coach?   I wouldn't either.   On the other hand, if said owner gives me final say on player decisions or is willing to hire a GM that I know and trust (not to mention a huge wad of green) then I'd take the job

But why even keep him if we finish 10-6? It's pretty obvious that he is not a good head coach and his timeout management skills rival those of Andy Reid. That is not a compliment.

We shouldn't have to wait until we are 4-12 before getting rid of him, that is what the Jets did with Ryan and look how that turned out. Right now, we are 7-3 if Philbin doesn't screw up against Green Bay. He screwed up against Detroit too, but we don't need every mistake overturned to turn a loss into a win. Tannehill said last night after the game that the team feels that they are 8-2 after Michael Irvin said "You guys are 2 plays away from 8-2" and I think that is our talent level. However, our coaching level is 6-4.

I don't believe in continued mediocrity so we don't rock the boat. If you aren't going anywhere with him, get rid of him.

And do one handed behind the back catches of fish thrown to him at Pikes Place Market

I think Harbaugh is gonna chase the money with his next deal. Whether its Michigan or in the NFL

If the team is improving every year and the GM/OC/DC are winning in spite of Philbin, it's worth keeping him to keep them.

If you get rid of Philbin, then Hickey/Lazor/Coyle are gone in almost every plausible scenario.

That's the only downside to getting rid of Philbin, losing Hickey and the assistant coaches, although reports recently came out that Lazor is wearing thin on the players with his attitude.

Still, at the very least, this is a 7-3 team that has been downgraded to 6-4 and outside the playoff picture because of Philbin. Windows don't last very long in the NFL, how many more years can we waste on this guy?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000428604/article/could-the-oakland-raiders-land-jim-harbaugh

Philbin is safe. Ross doesn't want to fire him according to Ian Rapoport

Things change in the NFL from week to week. He doesn't want to fire him now, let's see what happens if Miami is 9-6 in Week 17 and we get blown out 35-3 at home to the Jets and miss the playoffs. Will Ross then say "Well, we went from 7-9 to 8-8 to 9-7, so that's improvement" or will he realize he was the wrong head coach?

Or, if Miami finishes 8-8 again and is eliminated from the playoffs in Week 15.

He kept Ireland on for years without firing him when everyone told him he was nuts. If Ross has it in his head he doesn't want to fire him now, I don't see how Philbin gets fired. We will see though

You're absolutely right, there is no way to predict what Ross will do. He has shown that he is loyal to his staff to a fault. I joked before about going from 7-9 to 9-7 in 3 years not being enough, but he may see otherwise.

I also think Ross needs to rebuild his image in league circles, and he is very aware of this, after the Sparano-Harbaugh thing. So he will maybe give Philbin a longer leash to prove he isn't some quick-trigger owner who is un-rational and not good to work for.

Agree. There is also the Aponte factor too - Ross is doggedly loyal to her, she is (at the moment at least) to Philbin. A major reason Ireland finally got the long overdue bullet because of the fall out with Aponte, and she went heavily in to bat for Philbin during the GM interview process which is why Hickey got the job.

It is no secret some of the major GM candiates were badly put off the idea of having to work with Philbin and under close scutiny from Aponte. I can't see Philbin being moved in a hurry short of there being a complete disaster.

Well, if he doesn't fire Philbin then he will give him and Hickey extensions. Probably 2 year extensions so neither is a lame duck next year

Speaking of next year Adam Beasley reporting next year Fins have to decide on Oddrick or Starks after the season. He thinks/hears Fins might
Franchise Tag Oddrick and cut Starks to save $4 million and only eat $1 mill in dead cap space. Keeping both not a realistic option right and Oddrick is younger and better.

Well, 6-6 through 12 games and eliminated from the playoffs (realistically, not mathematically yet) on their way to another 8-8 season should be enough to finally do the trick. Granted, Ross is a weird guy who has shown in the past to make poor personnel decisions, but this would be really hard to come back from and keep his job.

http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/mehta-falcons-perfect-fit-falcons-article-1.2036147

NYC Newspaper reporting that Ross likes Rex and if Miami misses the playoffs Miami could be a landing spot for Rex as the Fins next head coach.  A case of a reporter just throwing stuff out there and seeing if it sticks!

The Bears and their anemic defense could be a good fit, but keep an eye on the Dolphins as a potential suitor for Ryan if Miami misses the playoffs. Sources told The News that owner Stephen Ross has an affinity for Ryan. If Jim Harbaugh remains in Northern California, as expected, then Ryan could become a viable option in South Beach.

I can't imagine Rex Ryan coaching here.  What a disaster. 

He would take the job but I would be shocked if Philbin is fired (minus losing out from here till Week 17) and I don't think Rex is the type of guy Ross would want.

I really don't believe the NYC paper or its source on this one. We will see though

Remember that this is the same owner that was consulting Eric Mangini and reportedly considered him for the GM job.

Say what you want about Rex, but he's a damn sight better than Mangini.

If we're talking logically, a 9-7 finish minus the playoffs should absolutely get Philbin fired considering his timeout shenanigans caused 2 losses. However, we don't use logic in Miami, so if it's 9-7 I think you will see Ross say "1 win improvement every year, he is doing well" and give him a small extension.

That would suck, but Miami always screws up it's coaching situation.

Mangini isn't dumb and is far better coach than Rex. Eric built those Jets teams Rex had success with early on. Mangini didn't want Farve the owner forced him on him and Farve was a mess after an 8-3 start that got Mangini fired.  Then Mangini went to Cleveland and found a way to win 5 games each year with little to no talent on those teams.

I don't think the phrase "found a way to win 5 games each year" should ever be used in support of a coach.

In today's NFL, if you string together multiple seasons of 6 wins or less, you suck and you're probably hopeless.  The fact that Rex took roughly the same team Mangini had, inserted Sanchez for Favre, and promptly won 4 playoff games is not a point in Mangini's favor.

Mangini is hot garbage.

Look at the roster of those Browns teams he walked into. Him winning 5 games is a miracle that should qualify him for saint-hood in the Catholic church

I think you missed Mike's point that it was Mangini that built that roster that Rex won those 4 playoff games with and lets not forget what Rex has done with the team since that time. The Jets have become a laughing stock and lost most of the talent on those teams without replacing it over the last couple of years.

FIRE COYLE then i could see Ross hiring Rex as the DC

Rex isn't taking a DC job. He already has a huge TV offer. He will take the TV offer or be a head coach. His days of being an assistant are over with

I am so ver this staff. Wash rinse repeat year after year this team just underachieves.

First of all: Mangini was not the GM; Tannenbaum was.  Both coaches had the same GM and Rex did much better.
Second: Even if we give Mangini credit for the roster, when you replace the coach and immediately do much better, that means the coach was bad.  Mike Singletary does not get "credit" for Jim Harbaugh's success; he gets blame for screwing up a talented roster.

Philbin blows and this is same stuff year after year.  Tannehill, while his stats have improved from last year and has made better decisions, is not your guy.  Guy throws either WR screens or RB dumpoffs for 7-8 yards.  BAL secondary has been AWFUL this year and MIA did not take advantage, which is typical of a MIA team.  Never exploit the other team's weaknesses.

RT doesn't trust his arm donwfield and is afraid to make a mistake, period.  It was checkdown city all day today.  If you can challenge a team downfield, they don't fear you and they wait for the underneath routes and they pin their ears back and rush the QB

MIA also went away from the run too early as well IMO.  Just an all-around cluster fock from this team and organization. 

Oh well, I guess the only suspense now is if Philibin the Dill will get fired at year's end. They are 8-8 at best and I'll challenge anyone who says different.  Maybe 7-9.  They ain't beating NE next week in Foxboro and the Jets will stick it to one more time at year's end to finish this season off.

Philibin is 22-23 record.  Fockin A is that's a waste.  It'd be different if they were shitty the 1st year and they steadily improved, not the case here.  He's a nice guy and all, but I don't want a nice guy who says nice things and does nice things.  I want a guy who holds players accountable, motivates players and brings success.  You're not getting that from him.

This just sucks all around.  Playoffs dashed by the 1st weekend in Dec.  Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

That's not the issue. You CAN'T throw a deep pass when you have zero time to throw. This o-line can't hold a block for more than a couple seconds. You cant do a 5 or 7 step drop with this o-line, you can't call those plays.  Not enough time for the WR's to get down field. It's not check-downs...those are the plays they are calling. The o-line is as bad as it is as last year right now. It's awful.

I'll give you that on some plays yesterday, but overall and I mean the season, do you think he's thrown the deep ball particularly well?  I would say no.  In fact, IIRC MNF threw a stat up last week that MIA was 3rd to last in 21+ yd plays downfield and I think NYJ were 2nd to last.

THAT says alot about this OFF.  He's almost Chad Henne 2.0 except he's cleaned up his INTs and he's more accurate on the short to intermediate routes.  Look, he's made strides from Rookie season to now, but he has shown NO deep ball ability at all. At this point I don't know if it's all him or his WRs but he's the QB and he's gonna take the hit for this.

I like the guy, he says the right things, he takes blame, but sooner or later you got to get the ball downfield and make the DEF respect that.  No one does and you get what you got yesterday.

The pressure that our O-line gives up is unforgivable.  Tannehill is only as successful as he is because he's been able to scramble and extend plays and run a little bit.  But that kind of play doesn't lend itself to big plays downfield.  At some point, a QB has to be able to stand in the pocket and deliver balls deep.

People say the season is over now (which it is), but it was really over when Brandon Albert was lost.  There was just no coming back from that.

Very true. James has done well at LT but the right side of the line is a total mess. Dallas Thomas isn't an NFL player at guard or tackle. Colledge is old and well average on his best day. And the fact Billy Turner can't even be active on gamedays with THIS o-line........wow. Not promising going into next year. I mean how bad is Billy Turner? Not saying he should be playing but at least be active and a back-up to the back-up! Another wasted 3rd round pick.

Absolutely True.  The entire o-line was shakily put together and one injury costs us dearly.  The team has visibly regressed since Albert went down.

I think that the average fan looks at fantasy football positions and thinks that's where games are won: QB, RB, and WR.  But that's ball-watching (cheers, Omar!).  The games are really won or lost in control of the line of scrimmage.  All else comes from that.  People who complain about not taking shots down field don't understand that there are a slew of things that have to happen in order to go downfield.  You can't just do it or you'll get picked off.  You have to control the line, give your QB time to work, give your RB gains to keep safeties in check, etc.  It's one hand washing the other.  Everything fits together like a puzzle.   You can have great a great WR and QB and you're still not successfully going downfield without the balance of a running game and a line to protect you.

So, when those building blocks are incredibly injured and your depth is outright bad, you're not going to do well.

Credit to Lazor for implementing the read-option and allowing Tannehill to do something this year or else it would've just been sack-city like last year.  Seeing people complain about our offense being dink and dunk 20-yard passes makes me nuts.  It's either that, or deep drop-backs to get sacked and incomplete passes and interceptions.

And this isn't a case of "blow it up" and start over. This is a franchise that has pieces in place. We have bookend Tackles on the o-line, a pro bowl caliber center, a QB, a RB, and an above average WR corp. On defense you have 1 lock-down corner, one promising LB in Jenkins, and a deep d-line.

This team needs better coaching and a better GM. And of course it needs to just repair the secondary and find guards on the o-line. (of course there are other moves like getting rid of Starks and tweaking the linebackers but the heavy lifting is on the o-line and secondary)

Our last coaching search Miami wasn't an attractive job because it had no talent and was a total rebuild and an unknown owner. This time this team has talent, no Ireland, an owner who has proved he is totally hands off, and a new coach can come in and win right away here.

Now will Ross fire Philbin....i have my doubts. After yesterday I hope he does but I am not holding my breath

No it won't...but it should. If Sparano didn't get fired after the 2010 season, I think Philbin survives this. He shouldn't though.

When it come to the O-Line, and offense in general, you need to put things in perspective.  The NY Giants were basically in the same situation coming into this year, new offensive line, new coordinator, and new playbook, however they had a 2 time Super Bowl QB.  Who's done a better job??  It's hard enough to replace one or two good offensive lineman, Miami had to replace (4), actually (5) to start the season due to Pouncey's injury.  So, in the coming off season Miami has to get (2) new guards, and hopefully improve the backups.  If not for the injuries this was a greatly improved unit.

What? Tannehill is the ONLY guy that we can't lose at this point. He's the closest thing Miami has to a star. He's not a star but neither is anyone on the team. ANYONE. Wake has disappeared lately. It's not all his fault, he can't do it on his own, but he can't put the defense on his back just like Tannehill can't put the offense on his. The real problem with Wake is that his star isn't rising anymore, it's set and on it's way down at least Tannehill's star is still on the rise.

If you asked me to take one player from this team to start a new team with it would have to be Tannehill for me. Grimes might be my second pick but unfortunately it's tough to build a team around a cornerback.

Wake is old. Wrong side of 30. And has hit the wall this year. I knew it was coming but I didn't think he would fall off the cliff like he did. Ireland had the right idea in drafting a  DE (ie Dion Jordan) to put opposite Wake cause Wake's window was closing a few years back and now is slamming shut before our eyes. Unfortunately he just picked the wrong guy in Jordan. The thought process was correct, the player was wrong.  Only consolation is that he hit on Vernon and Vernon can hopefully be that guy.

As I was thinking about Philbin, I started thinking of prior Miami HC's since the team went on a landslide under Wannstedt.  Philbin is better than Wanny was, then there was Jim Bates who was interim for (7) games so you can't compare to him (although I liked Bates).  Philbin is better than Nick Saban was (15-17 record) left the team without a very good roster.  Tough to compare him to Cameron, since Cameron was only here a year, but probably better than him.  Definitely better than Sparano (29-32 record). Can't compare to 3 game interim Todd Bowles.  So...over the past 15 years he's probably the best coach Miami has seen.  Keeping him around another year or two wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen.

Wannstedt won a division and made the playoffs a few times, and won a playoff game. Until Philbin does can't put him ahead of Wannstedt

You can't be serious.  Wannstedt was light years better than Philbin.

Philbin hasn't even finished above .500 yet, much less won the division or a playoff game.

Not sure where the Wanny love is coming from. He had a much better team and did nothing with them. Run, run, bad pass, punt.  Unless Not coaching is a talent I fail to see where he did anything.

With that said ... I like the guy but a coach he is not.

Wannstedt had similar talent on defense, a better running game but a lesser QB.

Wanny had the QB he wanted as he was the GM and refused to budge. that was most people's biggest contention with him. I'd argue that Wanny's defense was much better too. Put Sam Madison, Patrick Surtain, Zach Thomas, Jason Taylor, Tim Bowens, Daryl Gardner and Ricky Williams on this team and see what happens to the coaching. We have a couple of those but not all of them.

You know darn well that Wannstedt inherited a decent team.  As soon as Wannstedt took over from Johnson he starting bringing in all his buddy coaches he had at Chicago (miserable Chicago Bears Teams), and the team went downhill.

^^^Top ranked defense, and the best running back in the NFL at the time, and he still messed it up.

I'd say Wannstedt had significantly inferior talent on offense, particularly when he was making the playoffs.  But more to the point, Wanny's record absolutely OBLITERATES Philbin's.

Through his first four seasons, Wanny was 41-23 (.640).
To date, Philbin is 22-23 (.489).

You might say that it's skewing the comparison to exclude Wanny's last (partial) season before he was fired; I humbly submit that in Philbin's eventual last season before he gets fired, his total win % will go down, too.  So let's compare the meat of the work.

And just in case you might claim that Wanny only rode JJ's coattails: Wanny's win % was better than JJ's, and JJ had Dan freaking Marino.  Wanny won a division title, and JJ did not.  In comparison (again, ignoring the final season for now), Philbin has had a worse win % than his predecessor Sparano, and Sparano inherited a 1-15 team.

Wanny vs. Philbin is not even remotely close.  Anyone who thinks so is looking through the opposite of rose-colored glasses, skewed heavily by past expectations.  JJ made the playoffs three years in a row, Wanny made the playoffs for two more years in a row after that (while winning a division title), both of them won in the playoffs, and people on this forum have nominated both of them for the Hall of Shame.  Philbin would be a regional hero if he won a playoff game.

Funny, I agree with you too.  I like the guy personally, but he wasn't cut out to be a HC, good defense coord though

I felt that Wanny was leading a team that was regressing year after year.  Philbin seems to be on a team that is (slightly) improving yearly.

Wannstedt inherited a very good team from Jimmy Johnson and drove it into the ground.  Wannstedt is the reason why the team has been terrible the past 10 or so years. 

Wannstedt's first season as coach, his team went 11-5 and lost in the 2nd round (the 27-0 drubbing against Oakland).  Next season, 11-5 again, and lost in the wild card.  After that, the team went 10-6, 9-7, 4-12 and he got fired.  Only one playoff appearance since then, in 2008, when they got embarrassed by Baltimore in our own house.

I can't say that Wannstedt was a great coach, or if he just rode along with a talented team that won despite his coaching.  But, the fact that his 5th season (once he was fully removed from Jimmy's shadow), the team imploded.

How can it be that Wanny "drove JJ's team into the ground" when he had a better record than JJ, despite losing Dan Marino?  Please explain.

If you want to talk about who is at fault for this team being bad for the last 10 years, offhand I would probably select the guy who chose Ronnie Brown over Aaron Rodgers and Daunte Culpepper over Drew Brees.  But that's me.

^^ 21 GM's chose [insert player here] over Aaron Rodgers.  Can't really single out Ronnie Brown there.  I do agree with you about Drew Brees, though.

However, you can't overlook the fact that the amount of skill position players the Dolphins currently have under contract which were drafted by the Dolphins is shockingly low (not Wanny's fault).  The drafting (which I know Wannstedt isn't solely responsible, for but certainly had an influence in) during that era was abysmal at best.  When your best draft pick is Yeremiah Bell, that's pretty sad.  The list of names in that category is a recipe for why the Dolphins have been so terrible.

I'm more commenting on the Dolphins' lack of success IMMEDIATLY FOLLOWING and DURING Wannstedt's term as head coach, and how the team declined in performance during his tenure.

Once more: Wanny had a better record than JJ, and Wanny's record completely destroys everyone who came after him.  So how can you possibly claim any of them were better?

You say Wanny was bad at developing talent?  Saban was no better.  Neither was Sparano.  Neither is Philbin.
But at least Wanny had a respectable record.  The rest consider it a miracle to make the playoffs.

Of course none of them are any better.  Never said they were.  I think, only very recently, we are starting to see an up-swing in draft pick potential and skill development.

Again, my position was clearly stated.  Wanny had a talented team of skilled players who won in spite of him.  His record is an indication of the talent he was handed on a platter.  The trend of future progress and maintaining that talent speaks directly to Wanny's abilities.

Also, as far as Rodgers and the "21 other GMs go," 21 other GMs were not brought in from the college ranks because of their intense personal familiarity and success in the college ranks.  Saban was supposed to be the expert on college talent, and all he did was brainlessly pick SEC players.  Rodgers was the QB of the #4 team in the nation when Saban was still coaching in college.  He was the only QB to beat USC the year USC split the national championship with Saban's team.  Saban does not get a pass on Rodgers.

As far as the rest goes, Wanny took JJ's team minus Dan Marino and posted a better record than JJ did.  If that's what you call "driving a team into the ground," I don't know what to tell you.

On one hand

Philbin took a 6-10 team and has put them to where they were in playoff contention until week 16 in 2012 and week 17 in 2013.  And they are still in playoff contention now.

On the other hand,

He doesn't seem to be a good game manager

JJ never won a division title. Wannstedt did. If that's going downhill I will take that!

Wannstedt was at double digit wins (one year 9) every year he was in Miami till his final year when Ricky quit and the season was sabotaged in July. The re-writing of history with Wannstedt is always amazing to me. And its not like JJ inherited a garbage team himself, he inherited a good team and did nothing with it.

This is just IGNORING facts. Wannstedt time in Miami...wins....11, 11, 9, 10 including a division title. That is driving it into the ground?? yeah the final year sucked and that's why he was fired. But saying he took over a good JJ team and drove it into the ground is just flat out WRONG! In fact the opposite, he took over a JJ team and made it BETTER! JJ only won 10 games once, never had double digit wins in Miami except for that one year.

Wannstedt kept getting double digit wins without a QB. That Fiedler was his chosen QB is irrelavent, we're talking about who is the better coach, not the better GM.

Sorry, but it isn't even debateable. As much as I disliked Wannstedt, Philbin makes me long for the days when Wannstedt was the coach.

Interesting.  So it must be commonplace for NFL head coaches who accrue 43 wins in 4 seasons to get fired mid-way into a 4-win season.  I guess the standards in Miami during those days were insanely high...

Wanny has been a loser everywhere he has gone.  The fact that talented players (who could have probably had similar results with NO coach at all) got him a great record doesn't make him a great coach.

I don't understand your post. You post numbers and present it as if it were impossible for something to happen that actually did happen. Not sure you're helping your argument here.

Wannestedt's teams were loaded with talent, they should have done a lot better

On defense, but we had very mediocre talent on offense, aside from Ricky.

Chambers?  MicMichael? in 2003 and 2002, they were both good

This is the NFL....YES!! Lovie Smith took the Bears to a Super Bowl, had a 10 win season his last year in Chicago and they still FIRED him!! If you dont' win enough in this league you get fired. Every situation is different but for Wannstedt YES one bad year is all it took.

In a word: yes.

Wannstedt had many members of this board calling for his head after a 10-win season.

Wannstedt had a Super Bowl quality team and screwed it up into a 9-7 season when Ricky Williams rushed for 1,800+ yards. His name offends me.

That was NOT a Super Bowl quality team

If you think Ray Lucas is a Super Bowl-quality QB, you should have already bought tickets to Arizona for the Super Bowl this year.

LOL,

Yea wannstedt should have been able to overcome Ray Lucas' 14 turnovers in 6 games....  Damn coaching

Lets saY the Fins woes continue...  They go 8-8 again which i think may happen .  Changes are going to happen. Does Philbin Stay?  This was suppose to be a better Fins team than last.

They were middle of the line players at their position... ie mediocre.

Another thing that was common around here was calling for benching Jay Fiedler, but everytime the guy would go down to injury and everyone was all excited to see the back up come in, we'd go on a losing streak.

Jay Fiedler was not an elite QB by any means, but he was the best QB we had after Marino for a VERY long time...

I agree but that was only because Wanny refused to bring in a QB. he made sure the back-ups sucksed even more. Kind of like a man making sure all his wives friends are ugly so she looks better. At the end of the day she is still just plain Jane.

Didn't we bring in Brian Griese, Damon Huard and Ray Lucas?

Huard was a decent back up. Griese was a decent starter in Denver and a good guy to have as a back up. Lucas had a nice run with the Jets.

People were throwing their panties at AJ Feeley to replace Fiedler.  We saw how that worked out.

None of those guys were threats to Feidler and Wanny knew that. AJ was the only threat to Feely and he had no running game because Ricky quit on Wanny.  He did beat the 12-1 Patriots under Jim Bates on MNF though!!

Brian Griese was brought in with starting experience and competed against Fiedler for the starting position. He was a legitimate threat to win the starting job.

We were 11-5 the year prior winning the division, then got Ricky Williams and started the year 5-1. How is that not Superbowl quality? Fiedler went down and Lucas was Geno Smithesque, but when Fiedler came back the team still didn't recover.

I always wanted Griese to get a legitimate shot at the starting job.  I feel like he got some opportunities here and there but it never amounted to much.  I still think he could've been a better QB for us than Fiedler.

Griese was  through after Denver, he left on real sour terms here and he was damaged psychologically for a while.  Jay Fiedler was a pretty bad quarterback, but I will always remember how ballsy he was, had some good games,  I caught his come back win against Denver on that Sunday Night Game.

Fiedler was basically our Andy Dalton.

Actually they were second in the division the year prior

They won the division in 2000 

Ahh yes, those damn Patriots. We were still 11-5 though, our second straight season with that record. Throw in 1800+ yard rusher Ricky Williams and that is a legit Superbowl contender.

Dalton is a much better QB

It is if Fiedler plays 16 games instead of 10.   Ray Lucas immediately removed that team from Super Bowl contention.

It set us back a bunch because Lucas was terrible and we went 2-4 with him, but that still left us at 7-5 and the division winner was 9-7 too. We could've won the division, but we lost our last 2 games dropping from 9-5. We in the last 2 against Minny(a given at that point) and the Pats (tough, but a game we had in hand if we just got one first down. Sound familiar?), then we are 11-5, tied for the best record in the conference.

I don't know the tiebreakers back then, but it's possible we even get a 1st round bye. So, the team was still a contender.

Oh god.....

Let's clarify things here...

2000 11-5 won division, lost in divisional round
2001 11-5 second in division, lost to NE on tiebreakers, lost in the first round
2002 9-7 missed playoffs.  Went 2-4 with Ray Lucas at quarterback, but still could have earned a bye if they had won their last two games against Minnesota and New England
2003 10-6 missed playoffs, due to Mare's missed field goal in week 7 against New England.

OMG here we go again when the Fins still had winning  records .. etc etc... come on people. Let that go.  What happen 8 to 10 yrs ago is just that. Its in the past. Man  enough already.  The topic clearly went off track.   IS PHILBINS JOB SAFE even if the  fins go 8-8 or 9-7?

It should not be. The season is over and it ended last week, beating one of the worst QBs in NFL history at home in a meaningless game proves nothing.

No. Reports are Ross, Aponte, and Marino looked very upset after the game and pissed.

His job depends on the last 3 seasons, not the next 2 meaningless games.

Ross always wanted Harbaugh and now he is available for the 2nd time. I don't think he lets him get away again, nor should he. What can Miami do to change Ross's mind on whether he wants to keep Philbin or not? He either will keep him or he won't, the decision has been made because the season is over. We will find out in a few weeks.

I will be very surprised  if Philbin stays.  He has done nothing to show he is on the rise. If he is retained, look forward to another mediocre  season. 

Philbin is getting Fired. Miami Herald all but confirmed it.

Ross is listening to Marino and Tannenbaum these days and while Ross is tight with Carl Petersen still its Tannenbaum and Marino who are at every game with Ross and who will be in on this new hire. And Tannenbaum is also an agent who represents 3 assistant coaches who will be up for head coaching jobs this year. Dan Quinn, Hue Jackson, and Dirk Koetter. So if the Harbaugh thing fizzles cause he won't leave the west coast expect those 3 to be the short-list for the Fins.

Oh and don't be shocked if Tannenbaum replaced Hickey as the GM too. But that hasn't been decided yet

Yesterday's debacle in Foxboro (anyone really surprised?) has pretty much sealed Philbin's fate.  His 3-yr record so far? 22-24.  Not good enough in the NFL.  He's pretty much taken a Sparano team, and added another win for a season essentially. The '08 season with-standing (again last place schedule helped that team as the NFL sets that stuff up), the team was 7-9 for each of the next 2 yrs and then he was fired when they were 4-9.

Look, Joe's a nice guy no doubt, but he's not a HC in the NFL.  Doesn't have the demeanor or the fire to inspire players to rise to the occasion, which he's had the opportunity 2 years in a row now. 

Would love to know this great HT speech that he gave according to Mike Pouncey.  Can just hear now "Now guys, we just need to play a little better.  Some better tackling and we're gonna win the 2nd half".

The guy looks like he would be your next door neighbor that you would see watering/cutting his grass as you walked out to your car to go to work in the morning.

Problem with firing Philbin?  The next guy might not be as swift as you like either, but I'm wiling to take that chance after 3 seasons of mediocre football.

I will take my chances with the next guy at this point, I have seen enough of Philbin. Nothing will change with him. If the Miami Herald is right and the "short list" of Tannenbaum guys (after Harbuagh of course) is Quinn, Jackson, and Koetter.....I got no problem with Koetter. Hue Jackson I want no part of and Quinn, eh...maybe but would rather have Koetter. Sucks though that we might just be looking at guys Tannenbaum represents and are not opening up the search across the board.

Hue Jackson did well with the Raiders before Crazy Al Crazy Al's son booted him after one season.  I wouldn't mind seeing him in Miami.
I want no part of Tannenbaum, especially not over Hickey.

Because this keeps coming up:

The '08 team was not helped at all by their last-place schedule, as they lost both of the games (BAL, HOU) determined by that placing.

^^^ I don't know that you could blame the son there. He hired a GM, which that team desperately needed while Al was alive, who came in and decided to make the change. New GMs usually mean new coaches if the GM has the power.

I can't buy into or get excited for Hue Jackson as Head Coach of the Dolphins. I'm sorry.  I think most fans would shrug and just not care at all if they hired him.

Quinn or Koetter.....I could buy into. Koetter especially since he has previous head coaching experience at Boise St and Arizona St and he has had success in the NFL as an OC.

Why are you excited for the guy with college HC experience and NFL OC experience, but not the guy with NFL HC and OC experience?

Because I have seen Hue Jackson coach and there is nothing to get excited about. He is not very good at all.  Koetter improved the offense in Jacksonville as their OC and had them at a Top 10 offense during his time there with the likes of David Garard and Mike Sims-Walker and they had little talent on that offense. And in Atlanta he has done very well with that offense  (granted they have superior talent at the skill positions) with just a miserable offensive line.

I will take a chance that Koetter MIGHT be a great head coach. I know Jackson isn't great and never will be.

Miami Herald floated a couple other names to be on the Fins list after Harbaugh. The next one is Dungy but they say what we all know and that's he isn't leaving TV to come back to the coaching lifestyle. The other 2 interesting names is Kevin Sumlin at Texas AM (he wouldn't talk to NFL teams last year) and Gus Malzhan from Auburn (who refused to speak to the Browns last year about their job).  Add them to the list of guys on the Fins radar if/when Harbaugh turns Ross down again.

I really have no desire to have another coordinator or college coach learn on the job as head coach of Miami.

I just don't want a guy with no head coaching experience. Which is why I am not a big fan of Quinn. Koetter has been a head coach before has been an NFL OC, so I got no problem with him. Sumlin is a great young offensive mind and has head coaching experience...I got no problem with him. Malzhan is coaching in the SEC so he can cut it in the NFL...lol, got no problem with him.

When you get to the Hue Jackson's, Jack Del Rio's of the world....I can't stomach it. Guys who have won nothing in this league (not all their fault) but guys who just bring little to the table to get excited about or will turn this franchise around. Give me the unkown over the known.

At the same time Koetter was OC in JAX, Jackson was OC in OAK with even less talent and finished 6th in scoring (JAX was 18th) and 10th in yards (JAX was 15th).

If we are going to hire a first-time NFL head coach, I want an OC/DC who ran a dominating offense/defense, not just a passable one; the STL Mike Martz/BAL Marvin Lewis/GB Joe Philbin-level performers.  So I'd rather take Dan Quinn (SEA's DC) than Koetter.

To me, either Quinn (dominating coordinator) or Jackson (experienced NFL HC who had his first try undeservedly cut short) would be preferable to Koetter (neither).

Why is Joe Philbin's name in there with the other two guys? The guy was an OC in name only.

See this is the problem with firing Philbin. None of these guys (other than Harbaugh) sounds like an upgrade. At best they are of unknown promise. I'd really hate to bring in a guy who would do more harm than good and I think the chances of landing Harbaugh are slim and none. Philbin is not the answer, but I don't think he's the problem either. This team still needs more solid drafts and free agent signings to compete with the New Englands and the Denvers, so unless we think that's going to happen next year, bringing in one of these other head coaches has a small chance of making the team better and a better chance of making it worse.