The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

With deflate-gate being confirmed, paired with all of their past transgressions, how should the NFL proceed?

I definitely think there needs to be a suspension. Bilichick has either deliberatly tried to find ways to work around the system or he is guilty of not having institutional control. Either way I think his suspension is warranted.

Belichick needs to be suspended for at least a year

Behead Belichick on pay-per-view...

I'm thinking draft picks and fines make the most sense.  On the surface, this one incident isn't so big a deal, but I think you have to treat it like you'd treat a player with multiple run-ins.

Also, the NFL WAAAAAAAAY underplayed Spygate and swept that under the rug, which was super dumb.  That should've been aired out and made an example of.  Destroying the tapes????  WTF?

So, they need to make a statement.

Not defending sweeping Spygate under the rug, but I can see why they did it.   If the word ever got out about a tainted Super Bowl, it would've destroyed the league.  Fans would've stopped going to games and teams would've been bleeding money. 

^ I don't thinks so.

Fans don't care.  I mean...we know now.  And we know that the NFL helped cover it up and still nobody gives a shit.

The average fan doesn't know/care about bullygate/spygate/bountygate, etc.  They just want to drink Bud Light for 4 hours and watch people run into each other.

holy over exaggeration. It would have tainted THAT Super Bowl. But I don't think fans would have stopped going to games overall and teams would be bleeding money. That's beyond foolish on all levels

your post contradicts itself.  They fined and cost draft picks last time.  If they need to make a statement, wouldn't that suggest that a MORE SEVERE penalty is imposed this time?  Total of $750,000 fines and lost draft picks for Spygate, and they still found another way to cheat.  This needs to hit them even harder.

Let me clarify.  Spygate is a BIG BIG BIG deal.  Deflate-gate is a SMALL deal.

Spygate should've had the book thrown at them.
Deflate-gate should be a slap on the wrist.

But considering history, deflate-gate needs to be met with a harsher penalty, which includes fines and draft picks.

Finding balls with low pressure doesn't mean guilty. Not in that environment. A user on reddit recently posted an equation and did the math to solve for what the estimated pressure would have been during the game. The result, without tampering, would have lowered the psi and rendered them 'under inflated' by NFL standards.

And I can't find results on Colts' footballs during the same period. If they were to be 'under inflated' as well, then either everyone cheats or math is right. I'm not defending, I'll wait for all the information. I'm just saying that math isn't a Patriots fan.

I do know that the Football, Rubgy ball and Kickballs in my trunk right now, in perfect Florida weather, are lower than yesterday. (we conducted our own test) I remember they also deflated differently when i was in cold weather vs cold weather & high altitude.

Just saying...

 

That's just it - its NOT a big deal, but it is their second offense so now they are habitual offenders and should be treated as such.  The precedent was set last time with their fines and lost draft picks.  So, now, a harsher penalty would be BIGGER fines and MORE draft picks?  Or is suspension warranted? 

I've seen a lot of chatter online that consider suspension (effective immediately) a fair punishment.

And, to address the "math equation" statement, can you post a link to the calculation?  Balls will lose air naturally, but 2 PSI seems like a lot...  What was the calculation?  Why was the 12th ball not at the same level?

I've seen the Colts balls were still within the NFL's mandated range. I don't think anyone believes this is a case of the environment. Your trunk experiment isn't even close to the same situation. You are talking about a day's worth of deflation versus a few hours worth (also in completely different environments).

And this equation accounts for the fact that the balls were properly inflated before the game started?

I would hope the refs checked them properly.

Maybe this conspiracy is larger than anyone knows....  bum bum bummmmm

I'm thinking the precedent has already been set. Sean Payton was suspended for a year for not putting a stop to bounties after he had been warned against them. I don't see how this is much different in fact I think it's worse since Belicheck was already fined and lost draft picks once for cheating which is a heck of lot stronger than a warning. In my opinion a second offense of cheating has to carry a larger punishment. 1 year suspension and if he's caught cheating again lifetime ban from coaching in the NFL. That should get Belicheck to stop pushing the boundaries or if not then he'll be out of coaching in the NFL.

Honestly, this is for his own good. Belicheck is making a mockery of what has been a stellar career other than these blemishes on his resume. When other NFL Hall of fame coaches start poking fun at you for cheating, you need to realize something is very very wrong.

So, more detail (https://twitter.com/mikefreemanNFL/status/557960947290345472):

Gerry Austin, longtime referee, says halftime Pats-Colts footballs brought in, checked at half. Colts footballs still legal. Pats were not.

Penalties:

$1 million dollar fine.

Loss of 1st & 2nd round draft picks.

Belichick & Brady both suspended for four games next year.

One other Starter has to go out for a night of partying with Aaron Hernandez.

It's coming out now that the NFL was aware of New England being accused of this prior to that game even being played so they were supposedly already being watched. There is no way Belichick doesn't get some serious time off and I'm guessing Kraft would support that. He's been behind the big push for integrity in the game.

I still don't get how this gives them an advantage

I believe, and I could be wrong, a less inflated ball is easier to hold onto. So with the great run game the Pats have, try and make a guy fumble who is holding onto a deflated ball.

^^ its also easier to throw and catch.  In short, its easier to grip because it has some give to it.

Considering Brady's horrible start, it wouldn't surprise me if this was the answer to the "sky is falling" mentality after week 4, which signified the Patriots' magical turnaround.  In his first 4 games, Brady averaged 59% completion, 197 yards per game, 1 TD and 1/2 INT per game, 79.1 QBR.  Since then, 65%, 276 yds per game, 2 TD, 1/2 INT, 103 QBR.  Production drastically improved...? 

Total speculation, but if the ball is easier to hold, does that show why Brady's numbers improved so drastically, practically overnight?

Aren't the balls supposed to be inspected before each game?

Yes, and all the balls passed said inspection.  Yet at halftime, the Colts' balls were still in compliance, while the Patriots' were not.

Therefore...

2nd offense pf cheating that we know of and Sean Payton had to miss a season for the bounty scandal.

I can see any outcome from the league, but I don't know how you can justify anything other than a loss of several draft picks and a year long suspension for Belichick. Nothing for Brady as you really can't prove he knew or did anything. Throw in a $1 Million fine.

NFL is probably praying that the Seahawks win so that they don't have to suspend and fine the Superbowl winners.

Idk, to me this sounds like the Simpsons episode where Bart drops the fly ball, and later in the episode somebody says, "They dusted home plate with a non-regulation brush so we have to replay the last inning all over again.

While I am all for punishing the Patriots whenever possible (see my previous comment about decapitation), this situation reminds me of one of my all-time favorite comic strips. It was a 4-panel episode of a comic that used to appear in the old Stars and Stripes military newspaper, called Corporal Quibley. Like Charlie Brown, Corporal Quibley had a dog who voiced his thoughts via a little bubble over his head. In the first panel, Cpl Quibley and his army buddy were walking back home from a softball game, cleats hanging off their softball bats over their shoulder, with the dog walking behind them.

Quibley starts by saying "I've never seen the umpire make so many lousy calls."
His buddy replies "I've never seen the sun so bright in left field."
Quibley retorts "I've never seen so many rocks in the infield."
They go back and forth a few times, trading excuses.
In the last panel, you see the dog walking behind them, thinking out loud: "I've never seen anyone get beat by 70 runs before."

What actual advantage did the Patriots gain by illegally taping from their sideline?  They have access to hours upon hours of game footage from multiple angles via the TV feeds.

And yet Spygate was still considered a big deal.

If it's not an advantage then why did they do it?

You're missing the point if you think it really didn't give them an advantage in the game. The thing is that Brady and Belicheck thought BEFORE THE GAME that it was going to give them an advantage. That is enough. The thought that they were gaining an advantage by doing it is enough to punish them severely. Had the game ended 21-20 then NO ONE would be questioning whether or not it's a big deal. It IS a big deal because when they did it the score was 0-0 and they had no way of knowing that they were going to win by 38. If they did they wouldn't have risked it. Brady and Belicheck were worried enough about the outcome of the game that they risked everything to tilt the field in their favor. If that doesn't tell you how big a deal it is then you have never played a sport in your life.

I agree with what you said but I turn it another way...

It doesn't matter if it gives you an advantage or not.  Rules are rules, and are in place for a reason.  Any DELIBERATE attempt to violate the rules is considered cheating and should be punished.

The only reason people are pissy is because it's New England and their infamous spy gate scandal. No one's made any issues of Rodgers liking his footballs over inflated. Or the fact that maybe, just maybe the Patriots aren't the only team to have possibly done this (they just got caught). If this isn't the first time they've done this, it sure as hell hasn't worked since their last SB win, ages ago.

An under inflated ball may give a player better grip, but good defenses can alter, read and prevent plays from being executed correctly. Not to mention Brady's stats were worse in the first half (under inflated) than the second half (when the balls were supposedly removed).

I'm not defending them possibly deflating footballs, I just think the whole thing is silly. Fine them and move on.

This is correct.  The Patriots were INTENDING to cheat to gain an advantage.  Whether or not it actually provided them an advantage isn't what matters, in this case.

The Pats will lose a draft pick or two for sure.

But to me the real punishment is that this franchise and everything they have accomplished in the last 15 years has been tarnished. Even if they win next Sunday vs Seattle its tainted and tarnished because of this. They intended to cheat and break the rules. Between Spygate and this the cloud of them being "cheaters" won't go away for them ever as long as Belichick and Brady are there. It's gonna stick. And for Pats fans and everyone in New England they brush it off as no big deal and ignore it and gloss over it, but to the rest of the country they are viewed as cheaters.

We will never know whether it gave them an advantage.  I'm sure they only did it because of the forecast for rain, as it would allow a slight advantage in trying to hold onto the ball.  There is no way of knowing if Brady might have thrown a slightly errant pass, which could have gone for an incomplete or perhaps an interception.  No way of knowing if a handoff might have been fumbled, or the timing thrown off.  No way of knowing whether a receiver of RB might have fumbled because of a looser grip.  The point is they cheated, and got caught.  Fine them, take away draft picks, and suspend them for a few games next season.

read something pretty interesting ... Josh McDaniels shouldn't go untouched either. He was the offensive coordinator who benefited under spygate, he was fined for videotaping incident when he was the head coach at Denver, and now the offensive coordinator who is calling the shots under this cheat.

It's also almost guaranteed that they didn't just cheat twice and got caught twice.  I'm sure that this kind of thing (and many other things as well) have been going on for decades.

Until the NFL goes back and does something to Tampa Bay now that their starting QB has admitted to bribing someone $7,500.00 to scuff up the game balls after they were inspected, but before the game V Oakland:  Personally I'm on the "who cares" fence.  Tampa won a Super Bowl that game.  It was a pretty good game.  Did that impact the biggest game of the year?

Warren Moon was on the radio yesterday saying he replaced an entire bag of game balls, right before kick off, with balls used during the week prior due to the fact they were "worn in and game ready."  This was while he was in Houston, I believe, and in a playoff game - and he said it was standard practice.  He also said a ton of balls are manipulated, especially by kickers, in order to maximize a kick.  He said one team known to do this the most is / was Denver, and it's widely known due to the conditions of kicking in that city. 

Russell Wilson has the hands of a seven year old girl.  Am I to believe balls have never been adjusted to his liking?  Aaron Rodgers has the stones to admit he does / prefers it.

The only person who handles a game ball more than the QB = the referee and game staff.  Several times each play, actually, and they didn't notice a difference.  So, how much of a difference was there?

The one thing the Pats and their fans have correct in this are the shirts they have printed up:  "They hate us because they ain't us."  I'm willing to bet you all a doughnut Danny Marino used to doctor up balls to his liking too during his playing days, but no one ever said a word. 

...and we're talking about this being a huge deal / a cultural thing within the team?

The "everyone else does it too" defense is tired and lazy.  Everyone else didn't get caught.

Am I the only one who thinks this whole different ball thing is ridiculous?  A ball is a ball is a ball. Both teams should use the same balls, worn in in the same way, at the same pressure. Kickers should kick the same balls that are thrown.

I have smallish hands and know its tough for me to toss a football and near impossible in the wet. So guess what? I'm not going to be an NFL QB.

Just standardise the process (or make a ball that doesn't need to be worn in!) and remove that option to cheat.

And on the matter at hand, if it was so obvious that a DB who comparitively speaking touches the ball a hundreth of the times a QB does could see the ball was deflated, there is no way Brady didn't know as soon as he picked them up that something was up with them, the QB practically lives with the ball in their hands, think they don't know what the normal pressure feels like? Someone deliberately chose to cheat and there needs to be some form of punishment.

The NFL should supply the balls.

Maine ... the funny thing about Brad Johnson and others is they didn't get caught. It really seems odd to me that you wouldn't have an issue with this.  That's akin to saying we should not prosecute criminals where we have evidence because someone else got away with the same crime because we can't prove it.

Yeah, really....   Everyone else does it?  Who cares -- they won't, once you stick it to the people who get caught cheating.

When you make things up out of the blue, you really should expect to get called out for it. The quote above is a good example of that. Not only does Russell Wilson not have the hands of a seven year old girl, he has one of the largest set of mitts among all QBs in the NFL (10.25")...right up there with both Manning and Brady, who are known for their large hands. Wilson's hands were larger than any QB's hands in the 2012 draft class (a full inch and a quarter larger than Tannehill's), and were so large that the Wall Street Journal even wrote an article about "Russell Wilson's HUGE HANDS."

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304856504579338703990998202 (http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304856504579338703990998202)

Wrong. This was done before the inspection and completely within the rules. It wasn't a bribe, he just paid them to condition the balls to his liking. The only reason this is even mentioned is because it was the superbowl and teams do not provide the balls for the superbowl, the league does. So he paid someone to get the balls and condition them prior to the game which doesn't normally happen because each team supplies their own balls which they have every opportunity to condition themselves.

Honestly it sounds like Warren has taken one too many shots to the head because he doesn't know what he's talking about. It's completely legal for the kickers and/or the QB's to condition the balls (break them in) prior to them being inspected. Once inspected however they can't be touched especially not by a Kicker because those balls are taken and given to an official that hands out the ball when it's time to kick it. No kicker is allowed anywhere near a football that is used in a game after they have been inspected now. It wasn't always like this so maybe Warren is talking about prior to the way it is now, but he's not talking present day then, he's talking about the past. Big difference. At one time all the balls were supplied by the home team and teams started complaining that they didn't like the ways balls were being conditioned by the home team so that's when they changed the rules and now each team conditions their own balls during the week and then gives them to the officials to inspect. Once inspected no one is to alter the balls in any way. It's NOT common practice unless you are talking about the Patriots. In fact the Colts who were playing in the exact same game did not alter their balls after the inspection. They played by the rules, the Patriots didn't.

You won't really notice a 2 psi difference unless you actually squeeze the ball pretty good. There will be a difference but it's slight and if you are just spotting it for the next snap you wouldn't notice the difference.

It's completely within the rules to "doctor up" the balls before they are inspected. Once inspected though you can't do a thing to them. Frankly you don't know what you are talking about.

Reports are that Brady is going to take the fall ... basically admitting to his teammates in a closed door team meeting. I bet the NFL sits on this until the off-season but everyone knows this should be handled swiftly.

That's how it used to be prior to 1999 (Moon played a total of 3 games in 1999 and 2000, then retired).

In '99, the league switched to the K ball for kicking plays.  The K balls are brand-new, untouched footballs that go directly from sealed boxes to the official's locker room to the field.

Live press conference with Brady right now. He's denying everything. Didn't notice anything unusual about the balls at any point in the game. Only found out about it Monday along with everyone else.

what a lying lyer of lies

"I was totally unaware that my equipment managers were modifying these footballs to my preferred state"

Tom Brady just said...."This isn't Isis" trying to downplay this cheating.

Hey, so if Seattle secretly videotapes all your practices this week and next week, if they wear illegal substances on their jersey's so they are tough to tackle or block during the Super Bowl, if they break every rule in the book and end up beating NE can they use the excuse....."Hey this isn't Isis"....and just brush it off.

What a friggin moron. Brady should just shut up. The more the Patriots talk about this the worse they look. They clearly don't get it!

While this may not have made any difference against the Colts as it was a blowout....I'm going to venture to say this isn't the first time they have tried this little trick. Who is to say this didn't help them in their in the much closer game against the Ravens a week earlier. This has probably been going on for some time and being as there is a history of them cheating in the past Brady and the Hoodie should both be suspended immediately. The league has been so hard nosed in laying down the law for other actions they should be consistent and do the same here. Show the rest of the league that cheating of any kind will not be tolerated. We all know they won't especially right before the big game but they definitely should. Just my $0.02!!!!!

My view. After the Super Bowl is over, strip New England of their all of their titles for this season, BB to get an immediate suspension of at least one year (preferably indefinite) plus a fine of at least $1M. After hearing Brady's comments denying he knew anything followed by experts/former players like Madden, Ward, Aikman & Brunell basically calling him a liar, he should get something similar. You can probably add to that the equipment manager and Josh McDaniels, maybe more as this story continues to unfold. 

I can't think what is worse, having no Superbowl/AFC/AFC East Champion, or having one that is seriously tainted and will be labelled the champions who cheated their way to success. I was hoping before this came to light the Seahawks kicked their ass, I wish it even more now.

The Tour De France eventually stripped Lance Armstrong of his seven titles, leaving them vacated as a statement against cheating. Does the NFL have the balls to do this? (pun intended) They should, but in American sports it seems there always has to be a winner.

I think they should contract the franchise and have a dispersal draft, along with a lifetime ban for Belichick and Brady and vacating all of their division, conference, and league championships.

It's the only way to be sure.

(http://docsarge.com/files/includes/images/132fc221677982e3b191f925ba38d889-tumblr_ms5j3aewyh1qg8holo1_500.jpg)

If those Marines had only listened to Ripley...

In this scenario is it bellicheat or crybrady playing the acid-blooded, penis-shaped alien bitch?

Interesting to hear some former players thoughts on this as well. Basically stating they do not believe Brady had no idea that the balls were altered.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12213476&ex_cid=sportscenterFB (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12213476&ex_cid=sportscenterFB)

The one person who can't just claim they know nothing: Bellichek -- first of all, he knew.  But even if he didn't, he's responsible for what his staff does. 

The cover-up is worse than the offense.  He has no regard for the rules.  I have been pretty lax about the Patriots for a while, but I'm getting to the end of my rope.

If Sean Payton got suspended for a year for the bounty thing, you can make a case Belichick is in the same boat. He might have had nothing to do with it but since he is the head man he takes the fall.

Actually I think this is more along the lines of A Few Good Men.

Bob Costas: Coach Belicheck, did you order the Code Red?*

Roger Goodell: You *don't* have to answer that question!

Belicheck: I'll answer the question!

[to Costas]

Belicheck: You want answers?

Costas: I think I'm entitled to.

Belicheck: *You want answers?*

Costas: *I want the truth!*

Belicheck *You can't handle the truth!*

[pauses]

Belicheck: Son, we play a game, and that game has to be guarded by men with balls. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Goodell? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for the Colts, and you curse the Patriots. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That the Colts losing while tragic, probably made the NFL more money. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, makes money. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me in that game, you need me in that game. We use words like omaha, audible and shotgun. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of profit that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a ball, and play the game. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

Costas: Did you order the Code Red?

Belicheck: I did the job I...

Costas: *Did you order the Code Red?*

Belicheck: *You're Goddamn right I did!*

*clap**clap**clap*

https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmnfl/nate-solder-td-in-afc-championship-should-not-have-counted-says-jim-miller

Pats broke the rules on the Nate Solider TD catch in the AFC Championship game. Play shouldn't have counted, Pats had a guy on the field who was an ineligible WR. I mean the refs missed it so that's on them, but the Pats broke the rule

Seems to me like we're all acting like the jealous boyfriend or even worse a bunch of crybabies.

From Spygate to Deflategate.....do you not think that most teams do this shit?  Does it not come down to, their team game being better than ours...and their asshole coach being head over heals better than ours?

Seriously, our irrelevancy year in year out, is not do to being cheated out of the postseason, rather just an inept leadership group.

Please, people, stop crying and look at the core problem, starting from ownership and especially a super conservative ball less head coach.

Wish this organization had some of the Pats moxy, trust me all this shit would be irrelevant, because we'd have been to the show at least a few times since the 80's!

nobody is crying but it is the facts. They have cheated before and are cheating now.

Just because they got caught doesn't mean calling them out on it makes everyone a crybaby  ::)

No one is claiming that the patriots cheating hurt the fish at all. We suck, plain and simple. Yes, we are light years behind the fucking cheaters.

Why is this so fucking hard to understand? If you get caught cheating you get punished. Do you think the fish are/were the only ones with locker room bullying bs shit going on? The fish got caught on that and paid the price. 

Guess what? Crybrady thought this shit was needed and he got caught. Unless you want to throw out the fucking rulebook, yes this shit matters.

The truth about Deflategate finally comes out:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153069571942682&fref=nf (https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153069571942682&fref=nf)


 ;D

OMG that's too funny. The disclaimer at the end was the best part of it.

Belicheck still has not admitted they did anything wrong on Spygate. You think he's just gonna come out and admit that they did something wrong now? No chance. He has zero credibility.

"Lie until you die" seems to be a pretty successful philosophy these days.   

This thread has nothing to do with the Dolphins, so I don't understand your tirade...

Before Spygate the pats were 9-1 in the playoffs. Since Spygate they are 6-6 in the playoffs.

That is the stat that tells it all. Even if the Pats win by 50 this Sunday their whole legacy is tarnished.  You have spygate, this with the balls....where 11 out of 12 balls aren't just deflated they are all deflated to the exact same specification. Throw in where various coaches over the past 10 years have said when they play in New England that their headsets just happen to cut out in the middle of the games when their teams are on offense for periods of time. Marvin Lewis has been the most vocal about it but various coaches and GM's have complained to the league about it. Happens almost nowhere else but happens in NE on a consistent basis...just weird how that happens to be.

The Patriots will go down as cheaters. Win by 50 this weekend, won't change it. When you think of the great NFL Dynasty's of all time, Steelers of the 70's, SF of the 80's, Dallas of the 90's....the Pats will NEVER be in that conversation because the whole run and legacy is now tarnished

As a lifelong 49ers fan who has enjoyed all 5 titles, I can tell you without hesitation that we cheated our way to the first three. Ya see, we had Bill Walsh, and that shit just wasn't fair to the rest of the league. ;)

Nah, the 49ers only cheated their way to the last one, when they were penalized two draft picks for said cheating.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2000-12-02/sports/0012020220_1_principal-issues-involved-provisions-surrender-two-draft-choices-vice-president-dwight-clark

^^ Creative bookkeeping...figures a professed Niners-hater would put that in the same class as the Patriots cheating.

I agree but using it to try to discredit their success I think is ridiculous.

If you're saying that paying players under the table to evade the salary cap is a "lesser offense" than underinflated balls, or sideline video that's inferior to the already available game video, I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you on that.

Both NE and SF were penalized draft picks.  I'm glad I can say that my favorite team has never lost draft picks for cheating.

They cheat. They have been officially caught TWICE now. Their legacy is forever tarnished!!

If you want to be a jock sniffer and drink the bathwater of Tom Brady and Bill Belichick and ignore the facts, go for it. That's on you! The rest of America views them as cheaters....cause they are!

the dolphins lost a draft pick for signing Shula when he was still under contract to the colts. FWIW.

Great news!!! It was the ball boy who took it upon himself to deflate the balls. He must have overheard Brady say he likes less air in them. Now Patriots owner Rob Kraft is requesting the NFL apologize for insinuating Bellichick or Brady could have possibly been involved and defaming the beloved Patriots organization!!

I can't believe I just wrote that and it isn't in the slightest bit satirical. I have completely lost all respect for Kraft. Apparently he is too old to be speaking to the public or he has such inflated balls himself that he doesn't mind letting Goodell know who pays his salary in public!!

40 years ago and it didn't effect the integrity of the game on the field. Very different. Bad comparison

Unreal. Kraft should have just kept quiet because throwing himself into this mess isn't helping his image any. In fact it will ruin it real quick. I guess the lowly ball boy was bored and decided to reduce the air in the 11 balls to the exact same specification because ya know, it helps him ....oh wait, it doesn't. Nevermind  ::)

HAHAHA  ... I just read this and Sal basically confirms what I said ...

As Sal Paolantonio of ESPN reported in the aftermath of Kraft’s remarks, “As one source close to the Patriots told me, this was Robert Kraft reminding Roger Goodell who he works for.”

I stand corrected. Kraft is a piece of crap too.

The Dolphins had to give a draft pick as compensation to the Colts, in the same sense that the Jets had to give compensation picks to the Patriots when they hired Parcells and the Patriots had to give a compensation pick to the Jets when they hired Belichick.

In contrast, the 49ers/Steelers/Patriots/Saints had picks simply wiped out as punishment, not compensation.

Now the question becomes: How big of a check did Kraft write to the ball boy?

 

HA, true they are probably searching high and low to find someone to take the fall. The ball boy can take the fall for this in their eyes, but nobody with a brain is buying it. Why would the ball boy reduce the air in 11 balls to the same specification? To help him? To make his day easier? The ball boy had to be given orders from someone.

Of course it makes his job easier. He can lug the deflated ones easier as it has been confirmed the balls are easier to grip. I completely believe it all now. Goodell should apologize, in public, and then buy Kraft a nice dinner somewhere so they can kiss and make up.

I knew this was coming, but I still think the NFL has to act, citing organizational control, at the very least.  This is the Patriots 3rd bullshit.  They had spygate + the taping of the Super Bowl practice vs the Rams + deflategate.  ...and that's not even mentioning the snow-low incident where another worker just happened to break the rules on their own accord.

Apparently, the Patriots attended who brought the balls to the field did take them "to another area" and was alone with the balls used by both the Patriots and the Colts... for 90 seconds. Do you think you can deflate 11 balls in 90 seconds by two pounds(ish) each?

Methinks not.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2015/01/26/nfl-deflategate-investigation-is-reportedly-focusing-on-patriots-locker-room-attendant/

Probably since its not the first time he has done it....yes. I think 90 seconds is more than enough time. Especially since there was a newscast last night that said each ball takes less than 2 seconds to deflate.

All you have to do is stick in a needle that's not attached to a pump and air will come out.

Haven't seen Hoodie in a week ... I'm guessing he is a little embarrassed of the fiasco. I know a Boston guy who said it's getting harder and harder to be a fan after the latest rant from Kraft. I don't see most of their fans caring but certainly some are bothered by this whole debacle.

^ I would've totally thought what you said is bullshit, but I've noticed it myself on forums -- Patriots fans coming out and saying that it's harder and harder to defend their cheating and embarrassment. 

I know I felt that way a bit during bullygate.  We handled that poorly and it affected my fandom.

Bullygate doesn't tarnish wins or a legacy. That was just more embarrassment.  What NE is doing is almost erasing all of their own accomplishments. Nobody outside of Pats fans believes this 15 year run or so is legit anymore. Everyone views them as cheaters and nothing will change that. They could win 60-7 on Sunday and everyone will view them as the team that cheated for all those years and they only won because of cheating.

The old saying.....Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.....fits with the Pats. Maybe people could overlook the spygate thing and say who really knows muddy up that debate enough where you find it irrelevant, but now this on top, nope. The pattern of cheating doesn't end. Throw in he complaints about head-sets going out on opposing teams who play in Gillette Stadium and such and this team cheats. The legacy has been forever tarnished

"Let's see... how do we make this look like we didn't do anything...?  Hmm, what's that, over there?   Let's get Jimmy the ball boy to admit to it, sign a non-disclosure agreement, and I'll write him a check for a hundred grand under the table and we'll make this all go away.  Ball boys are a dime a dozen, so I'll fire Jimmy the ball boy for being an embarrassment to the organization and we will come off squeaky-clean. In fact, I'll even demand an apology for the audacity of insinuating our fine organization. 

Sounds like a great plan to me!"

~ Robert Kraft

If you have a couple guys do it no problem. 1 guy would be a bit quick, but if he's been doing this all year? Yeah it could be done.

I think hoodie is doing the smart thing and staying clear of this. Nothing good can come of him commenting on this. I appreciate him staying out of it. He's probably wishing he could comment but knows better. Hoodie is a class act all the way around and I applaud him not saying anything. Once this all blows over a bit and we find out what's going to happen he'll probably comment.

I've been working today so I haven't had a chance to really read any of this, but I'd be shocked if they actually came out and said that the ball boy did it. That's admitting that someone let the air out of the balls. Their stance up to now has been that NE did nothing wrong. Are they backing off that stance now? After what Brady and Belicheck said? And knowing that ignorance is not an excuse? Might as well have said that Brady himself did it. There's not much difference in my eyes.

I'm not knocking Hoodie at all as I like him as well. It's just an observation.

More stats that this has been going on for years. How a deflated ball is easier to hold and less likely to fumble.

Benjarvis Green Ellis 500+ touches with the Pats...NO FUMBLES. He goes to Cincy the next 500 touches....6 FUMBLES!

Stephen Ridley fumbles a lot.

Some players just suck and no amount of cheating will help that. And no cheating is "full proof" either....but that stat about BGE does tell alot

It's official: I don't like the Patriots, after kinda being OK with them for a long time.

Kraft is an asshole.  He wants an apology.  Fuck that guy.  #1 - You're cheating now.   #2 - Even if you aren't cheating, you have a long history of cheating, so pardon me if there's a ton of smoke and we have the gall to suggest fire.  #3 - It's the NFL's job to investigate things like this.  And there's certainly enough evidence to investigate.  It's like the cops apologizing to you for questioning you when they find a dead hooker in your trunk.

agreed 100% .. Kraft is an asshole

Great Analogy.   ::)  But, I agree Kraft is an A$$ for asking for an apology.

I am sick of all this deflate-gate talk, it is way overblown at this point.  The more you hear about the subject, the more boring it becomes.  Yes, the Pats broke the rules, so do the investigation, fine them, take away a draft pick and move on.

I think multiple draft picks will be taken and I think multiple suspension will come out of this. I would be stunned if its a simple...lose 1 draft pick punishment. And fining them is worthless. You can't punish these billionaires and millionaires with money. That isn't a real punishment because the message you send is cheat and you can buy your way out of it.

My suspicion...

Belichick is actually clean, as is Kraft.  I think Brady is the orchestrator.

I suspect the Super Bowl game balls will be under strict supervision from the officials.  To see if my theory is true, we would see Brady play a miserable game, overthrowing receivers all night, and maybe 2-3 picks in the Super Bowl.  If that happens, then its a clear indicator that the cheating actually DID make a difference.  We shall see...

I don't think him having 3 fumbles and then 2 fumbles says a lot either. If he had 8-10 fumbles in a season that would be more of a red flag. The guy wasn't going to go his entire career without a fumble.

Anyway, that doesn't mean something doesn't stink up in New England.

That prediction is on pretty shaky legs, as they switched the deflated balls for regulation balls at halftime of the AFCCG and NE promptly doubled their first half offensive output.

Perhaps...  We will see, I guess.  Its a no-risk prediction for me, really.  I just said "if it happens, its an indicator" but not the converse.  If it doesn't happen, it proves nothing.

The NFL has appointed the Chicago Bears crew to prepare all the super bowl balls for the game and be "ball boys" for the super bowl

It doesn't matter if cheating made a difference, they cheated and broke the rules. Whether the cheating helped them a lot or a little or not at all is meaningless.

I have a different spin on your fumble argument.

Since 2010, the Patriots lead the league in play run per fumble. And it isn't even close. The Patriots run 187 plays per fumble. The next close is Houston with 140. And from there the difference between one team and the next is minimal. Atlanta is third with 131 plays per fumble, a difference of 9 from Houston. That is the 2nd largest difference from one team to the next behind the 47 play difference betweeh Houston and New England.

To put it another way, no team has fumbled the ball less than the Patriots (33 times) since 2010. Denver has the most fumbles since 2010 with 73.

It isn't just that the Patriots happen to be the best team at protecting the ball, it is that they are beyond an anomoly. They are off the chart.

^^ great stats there, Rich!  That one really tells the story.  Wow!

SharpFootballAnalysis (http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/) has had several blog posts over the last week to the same effect.

However, some people are taking issue (http://regressing.deadspin.com/why-those-statistics-about-the-patriots-fumbles-are-mos-1681805710) with SFA's massaging of the statistics.

Overall, those stats seem unusual, but not suspiciously so.  For example, it's fair to point out that one of the other teams that was frequently at the bottom of "fumbles lost" lists were the Peyton Manning Colts.  When you have a great QB that can get rid of the ball quickly, you are less likely to endure the beloved sack-strip-fumble.

The stats I am referencing are fumbles, not fumbles lost.

If it happens it proves nothing either. It can be a sign but not any kind of proof.

^^ fair point.  Its not "proof" of anything.  I didn't meant o imply that it was.  But as you said, it could be a trending indicator.

Kraft I can believe, not Belichick. This BS that he doesn't know anything about footballs is a load of crap. The guy knows everything that goes on in New England and you want me to believe that Brady has never said to Belichick that he likes a deflated ball? Bullshit. Those 2 guys finish each others sentences. Even if Belichick didn't want to know about footballs he would because he doesn't take anything for granted. Wasn't it just a couple weeks ago that him and Brady were telling the Ravens that they should know the rule book? Um, hello this is pot, you're black.

Did anyone else see this? http://sports.yahoo.com/news/tom-brady-had-interesting-response-215828546.html

Very interesting theory there at the end that perhaps the balls were inflated with hot air so that the balls would not need to be deflated in order to still achieve a deflated ball once the hot air cooled sufficiently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7jjX0lTgMc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7jjX0lTgMc)

Maybe that is why the ball didn't bounce into the end zone on that kickoff  :D

I got a cop to apologize to a guy for arresting him once.

Wrongful arrest is one thing.  Questioning suspects is another.

I got a cop to apologize to me (and my mother) for accusing me of shoplifting once.

So a reporter had the idea to test and see whether he could deflate 12 balls in 90 seconds.

He did it in 40.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/deflategate-update-soften-12-balls-40-seconds-article-1.2094280

Yep, it's not that hard.

I'm not a religious watcher of The Daily Show, but this was pretty damn funny...

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/gudld8/psi--new-england---pounds-per-square-inch---silly-finings-playbook

Say it isn't so Joe ... lol. Joe Montana, who haooens to be Brady's idol, calls him out.

“If I ever want a ball a certain way, I don’t do it myself. So, somebody did it for him,” said Montana. “But I don’t know why everybody is making a big deal out of trying to figure out who did it. It’s pretty simple. If it was done, it was done for a reason. There is only one guy that does it. Nobody else cares what the ball feels like.”

It doesn't matter at this point. After Goodell's state of the league press conference on Friday and his comments it seems like this is gonna get brushed under the rug and no punishment will be passed out. Kraft's temper tantrum worked

and it will just continue.  the rule book is a farse as long as the league is profitable (and the Patriots keep winning games).

I have little respect for Goodell who is without doubt the worst NFL Commissioner I have seen, and will have even less if the NFL takes no action on this. Then again, it is now sounding like there were murmurs about this going on during the season, and yet the NFL/referees managed to turn a blind eye to it until the AFC Championship game. >:(

I am surprised he doesn't have 31 other team owners in his ear telling him to do something about it, and threatening him with the sack if he doesn't. 11 out of 12 balls deflated to exactly the same pressure, the film footage they have, it's pretty much a cut and dried case, especially when so many experts/former players have basically come out and said so. If the NFL does nothing it condones blatant cheating at the highest level with no responsibility, or ridiculous bias towards one particular team - either way, it stinks.

Yes, Hoodie has shown consistently here he is a great guy and part of me feels really sorry for fans like him having to go through this, especially on the eve of what could be the crowning of a great season.

I was really torn up when my AFL team the Adelaide Crows got exposed and punished for cheating a few years ago, the punishment of draft sanctions have really hurt the club but we deserved it. There was a long period of denial from within the club and many fans, but eventually the gravity of what was done sank in and finally some of the cluster fucks behind the whole mess payed the price for their incompetence. It had to happen to be able to move on, or else the open wound would have continued to fester and grow, virtually everyone acknowledges that now, even the loudest deniers.

The NFL should find a way around this (if they really want to).

Take the person set to take the fall aside, tell them they are likely to be facing an investigation by the FBI for game fixing with a potential lengthy jail sentence, a lifetime ban from being present at any NFL game (not just as a team employee, that includes any work like as a janitor, or even just attending as a fan), and be publicly named, shamed and ridiculed for the rest of their life.

See how they like them apples - how many million $$$ from Kraft would make it worthwhile to wear those punishments?

Punishment should be....Belichick gets a 1 year suspension (just like Sean Payton got) and Brady gets 4 games and to open the year 3 of those 4 games should be a game vs the Jets, Bills, and Fins. Make them play a division game without Brady.

NFL will sweep it under the rug and will make it go away though. But the punishment is pretty obvious to me.

Sour grapes?

Would you thought it sour grapes if it were say Green Bay? Not really sure why you are defending NE so vehemently. No one is suggesting taking the SB away from NE, they deserve the Championship for the way they played this year AND they deserve to be severely punished for cheating. It is possible to be extremely talented and extremely lacking in ethics at the same time.

It just sounds like it to me.

I don't know all the facts of the case, so I can't judge, but let's not turn this into the crime of the century

You have a low football IQ and proved it all year and continue to prove it now. It's not a crime of the century but its breaking the rules. When you break the rules you get punished. Whether NE won or lost tonight has nothing to do with it, they cheated and should be punished

And yet still decide to grace us with your opinion.

I find a few things about this story amusing.  Call me silly, maybe it's the former detective in me, but I'm a facts guy:

>> Eleven of the 12 footballs used in the first half were judged by the officials to be under the minimum of 12.5 PSI, but just one was two pounds under. Many of them were just a few ticks under the minimum

Source:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000466783/article/more-details-on-the-investigation-of-patriots-deflated-footballs

>>2 PSI is less than the weight of a dollar bill.  Reference John Brenkus, Creator, Executive Producer and Host, ESPN's Sport Science:

http://media.weei.com/a/101371627/dale-and-holley-john-brenkus-from-espn-sport-science-1-28-15.htm

So, after all this, I believe Brenkus (who doesn't have an axe to grind or a "horse in the race").  Additionally, after all the hoopla, it turns out only one ball was 2psi under, the rest were "only a tick" which, and, per Brenkus, all are easily explained.

Objectivity, at times, is a lost art.  I understand the Patriots are the center of all evil which runs through the planet, but man.

^^ 11 of 12 Pats balls are under pressure but NONE of the Colts balls are under pressure. On that field on that day in the same weather condition the Colts balls stayed "legal" while 11 of the 12 for NE were under pressure.

Hey Maine, I got a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell ya!

Whether a person is a fan of NE, the Colts or whatever I really don't understand any argument that is was ok. Even if every single person in the NFL knew about it they wouldn't have the rule, and QBs would care, if it didn't help them in some way. It's cheating and as Joe Montana stated only one person cared if it was deflated and would have had them deflated. There is no freakin way Brady didn't purposely break the rules.

This would be great if the weight of the ball has anything to do with the reason it gets deflated. No one cares about the weight. The grip is the purpose for deflation.

I actually hadn't heard this before and this does sway my opinion a bit that it's possible that NE didn't tamper with the balls, but still 11 of the 12 were under the minimum when none of Indy's were and that was after several teams had already notified the league about under inflated balls and was the main reason the league checked them again at halftime in the first place. So the fact that only one was 2 pounds under and was not the norm still doesn't change the fact that almost every single one was under inflated to some degree. That still sounds like a pattern to me. I'd still have to go with this was done purposely and not merely a coincidence. Couple that with the fact that the ball boy was videotaped going into the bathroom with the balls and you have enough circumstantial evidence that the balls were tampered with. So on this point I'd have to say that this still meets the beyond reasonable doubt standard used in courtrooms.

They're not the Yankees, but they're definitely on the Evil High Council...



How dare you two confuse the issue with logic!!

With the result of yesterday's game, I think the NFL is now in a position where they cannot do anything to NE.  It would come very close to delegitimizing NE's win (and this entire NFL season).

This will be swept under the rug with frightening speed.

^^ Bingo.
If they were going to do "something" it should have been done prior to the Super Bowl.  Any discipline now basically puts the old Barry Bonds asterisk on the 2014-15 NFL season.

Thanks for ruining football, Brady.

I'm not so sure. If he does nothing then he's going to take it even bigger in the shorts then if he punishes the SB winners. I think the majority of people want him to do something big and if he does nothing they are going to scream that it's only because it's the SB winners and that he's playing favorites with Kraft. He almost has to do something big now or the backlash is going to be even bigger than it would have been had they not won the SB. If NE didn't win the SB it would have been easier to slap them on the wrist because the heat they would have taken wouldn't have been as bad. With them winning the SB, if he doesn't punish them harshly people are going to assume that it's because they won the SB. Peyton got a year, but Belichick won the SB so he doesn't get punished? How's that going to fly?

I think the big factor is going to be the owners themselves. How badly do the owners think that the Patriots should be punished? If most of the owners are on board with punishing them, Goodell is gonna oblige them if for no other reason to avoid looking like he went light on Kraft. I know that a lot of people are not happy with Goodell, but how do the owners feel about him? I haven't seen much negativity from the owners. I think he's doing pretty much exactly what they want and he'll do it again here, SB or no SB.

(http://c.o0bg.com/rf/image_r/Boston/2011-2020/2015/01/22/BostonGlobe.com/Sports/Images/Lombardi_new2b-6912.r.jpg)

I really don't like the comparison between Payton and Belichick.  Sean Payton got suspended for a year because his team was deliberately trying to injure opposing players.  This directly undermines everything the league has been trying to do with recent rule changes and gameplay protocols addressing player safety.   They can't have a loose cannon coach out there deliberately headhunting opponents, and at the same time, preach about enhancing player safety.

On the other hand, let's assume for the sake of argument that Bill Belichick was the mastermind of this scandal.  Let's say he manufactured the deflating needles, tested the process, built the shady private deflation room, and hired the minion to do the dirty work.  Its STILL not as bad as headhunting opposing players.  Not even close.  Its cheating, yes.  Its against the rules.  But it has no impact on player safety, or any other league initiative.  (If anything, it enhances the league's effort to increase offensive scoring per game).

So, to compare Sean Payton's 1 year suspension to this deflated ball scandal, to me, seems like apples and oranges.

Belichick is a repeat offender.  That makes it worse.

The comparison is the correct. Payton had no knowledge of the bounty scandal but since it was his team and he is the defacto CEO of the team he got punished. Same here, if Belichick didn't know that's not the issue, he is the defacto CEO and he has to take the fall.

And what the Patriots did directly undermines the integrity of the league which is every bit as important as player safety, maybe even moreso. Technically speaking the NFL actually encourages players to put their health at risk with every single play despite trying to make the game as safe as possible. They encourage taking risk all the while promoting safety. The NFL in no way encourages cheating.

No, the evidence was that Peyton was fully aware of the bounties. The NFL produced an e-mail discussing a bounty on a particular player and Peyton acknowledged it.

"As recently as this year, Payton said he was entirely unaware of the bounties -- "a claim contradicted by others," the league said. And according to the investigation, Payton received an email before the Saints' first game in 2011 that read, "PS Greg Williams put me down for $5000 on Rogers (sic)." When Payton was shown that email by NFL investigators, he acknowledged it referred to a bounty on Rodgers, whose Packers beat the Saints in Week 1."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7718136/sean-payton-new-orleans-saints-banned-one-year-bounties

i don't even know what to think anymore.  Everywhere I look I see a new report.

There won't be an asterisk against any team because the cheating goes too far back in NFL history.

Stories about the 49ers & Steelers coming out from their Superbowl wins. Today we have NE, Atl, Jags, Browns or course the Saints bounty stuff...

If we're going to be accurate it really should just be:   NFL*

Wells report is in. Pats will probably get off with a slap on the wrist but Brady comes off really really bad and the report all but says he lied to investigators

Tom Brady 1 year suspension...we can only hope

The one time we won the division, Brady was out for the year. Let's really hope.

Nah, instead, let's give him a trophy, a ring, and a free truck. ::)

As much as I would like to see the Pats get a harsh punishment, I don't see it coming. If Goodell did throw the book at them it would be refreshing and help his image some I will say that

Not so fast...this seems pretty damning

Of all the elements of the Ted Wells report which cast Patriots quarterback Tom Brady in a poor light, a series of text message exchanges between the pair of guys who got game balls where they needed to be and when are near the top of the list.

The messages, not all of which are able to be reprinted here on a family website, give a pretty strong suggestion that not only was Brady in on the deflation, but that he was signing autographs in exchange for special treatment.

The messages between Jim McNally [the officials locker room attendant] and John Jastremski [a Patriots equipment assistant] show a level of detail and planning that indicates this wasn’t a random, or one-time occurrence.

The first exchange was after an Oct. 17, 2014 game against the Jets when Brady complained about the pressure of the balls.

Jastremski wrote “Tom sucks. im going make that next ball a f—in balloon.”

McNally replied: “Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done…”

McNally, apparently not a fan of Brady’s (or at least his level of attention of air pressure) made several references to pumping the balls up to “watermleon” or “rugby” size, since Brady preferred softer ones for better control.

Prior to the next game, McNally wrote: “The only thing deflating sun..is his passing rating.”

There was then a discussion of McNally receiving free shoes and gear, and prior to the Jan. 10 game against the Ravens, the two of them were in the equipment room with Brady when McNally “received two footballs autographed by Brady and also had Brady autograph a game-worn Patriots jersey that McNally previously had obtained.”

McNally later referred to himself as “the deflator,” and chided Jastremski by saying “im not going to espn……..yet.”

Those exchanges make it hard to imagine Brady had no knowledge of what’s going on, which he’ll need to answer for later.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/06/text-messages-suggest-tom-brady-had-knowledge-of-deflating/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/06/text-messages-suggest-tom-brady-had-knowledge-of-deflating/)

^^^^^Pretty convenient this gets released a week after the draft. They get to keep picks unless you take some away next year.

They got off with nothing for spygate I expect the same here. Some big fines but no loss of draft picks or suspensions

The report incriminates some ball boys and Tom Brady, not the coaches or front office, so I don't think picks would have been lost even prior to the draft. What you may see and probably will see is Tom Brady getting suspended and those ball boys will never work in the NFL again.

Rumor has it Brady will be suspended 2-3 games and pre-season games will count. 

Wow.  That is such a joke.

So basically he would get a vacation and not play in some meaningless games? Hah.

Games where they want an excuse not to have to play him anyway, mind you.

Yes ... I was just being a smart arse. In my opinion they will find some way to punish them without actually doing so suspending them for preseason games that Brady doesn't even want to play in would be a perfect place to do it.

There is NO WAY preseason games would count. I have a feeling someone made up that rumor out of thin air. The NFL would get destroyed if that was the punishment. This has to be made up and some internet rumor. Hell guys who fail drug tests and are suspended for 4 regular season games or longer can play in preseason games!!

Oh...CF was trolling.  I thought that was legit.  My bad.  Carry on.  I'm too dumb to understand jokes.

The texts show that he has been doing this for the entire season, plus the report caught him lying several times in addition to withholding evidence.

If this were any other guy, he's done for the season. I am hoping for 8 games at the very least plus a huge fine.

Like we say about politicians, the act can be forgivable. It is the lie and coverup that will get you. This speaks directly to the integrity of the league. A player trying to find an advantage is normal. A player lying to the league is unforgivable.

If they suspend Brady for at least 6 games, I'd say Miami win the division.
If they suspend him for the season, I'm 99% Miami wins the division.

That means Philbin keeps his job.

So Philbin haters...what's better for you:
   A) Brady out for the year, Miami wins the division, Philbin keeps his job?
   B) Brady isn't suspended, Miami misses the playoffs again, Philbin is fired?

I know the unwarranted hate runs deep, but if you answer B, you're not allowed to be a Dolphins fan anymore IMO.

I can't imagine Brady being suspended for any real length of time.  If he even got 2 regular-season games, I'd be shocked.

I don't think he will be suspended at all. Kraft is one of the 3 owners who decides Goodell's salary each year. Something to remember

Hope I am wrong, but I don't see a suspension coming

I doubt anything will happen because it's the Golden Boy and the Patriots. They should fine and suspend some people, including Brady, but they won't, at least nothing meaningful.

I mean Ray Farmer got 4 games for sending texts to the sidelines during a game and Brady will probably get off with nothing. Which is bullshit, but this league can't get out of its own way of late and I see another screw-up coming and another PR nightmare on the horizon.

Would be nice to see Goodell get his stuff together and almost over punish Brady to show he isn't playing favorites, but I am not holding my breath.

Hopefully the NFL will be like the NCAA.  Make the Patriots vacate some wins, especially that Super Bowl win because Brady cheated to get there.

You guys seriously think Brady gets punished?  C'mon...  They just named him the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER of the league's CHAMPIONSHIP game.  The league wants to celebrate this guy not punish him.

Brady could come running out of the tunnel with a burning American flag in one hand, giving the crowd the middle finger with the other, then use the burning flag to torch a life-size doll of Roger Goodell at mid-field, hanging by the neck, then do a humping motion to the referee while watching Goodell burn in effigy, and the league would do nothing to punish him.

Brady will be suspended for 4 games, and fined $250,000.00.

Is this a guess?  If not, source, because I'm not seeing this anywhere.

its a guess he is hoping its that

Once upon a time, a law school colleague told me that the "Dolphins should be cancelled as a franchise" when they made some completely ignorant trade or draft pick.

So, allow me to say, at this time, that I feel an appropriate punishment would be the revocation of the Patriots' franchise for 1 year.

Not gonna happen, but a guy can dream.

I still hear contradicting reports from both the internet and the ESPN crawl about this.

What is up with that?

Miami Herald report that the NFL is tossing around suspending Brady for 1 full season.

Not sure if I believe it but by god almighty I hope that report is right!!

I was watching the crawl and it said something along lines of only the attendant knew about it.  Then it cut to the commercial break before it finished.

Pro Football Talk's Mike Florio says a suspension is likely.

Even 4 games is a farce. He was caught cheating THE WHOLE SEASON and then lied to investigators and wouldn't fully cooperate. Farmer got 4 games for texting and Payton got a year off just because he was the Head Coach. How is this not a year long ban?

Cause he's Tom Brady.

If it was Tavaris Jackson, he'd already have been banned for life.

Contradicting reports from competing media sources about something that might or might not happen in the future? Dear Lord, man, when will the madness end!!

More like a prediction, but thank you.

No it's about something that HAS happened already.

Like I hear one day that Brady was involved, then I read the crawl, and it says he wasn't.

Here's a question.  How did they get their hands on all those text messages?

Wouldn't they have been deleted off the phones? 

Goodell has said he WILL be suspended. Amount of games come out next week. 

Goodell told Sean Payton he was suspended for the year because "You were the Coach, you should've known". So, precedent dictates that Belichick has to be suspended too. We all know the league and especially Goodell are corrupt and this won't happen, but there is legitimately no excuse for it not to.

2 games would be a joke, so I say Brady gets 4 and it stays at 4.

All reports are its 6-8 games. Miami plays NE Week 8 but its NE's 7th game cause they have an early bye. So if its 8 games Fins won't have to face him once.

Between cheating the whole season and lying about it and not being cooperative with the NFL, logic would dictate 6-8 games. The corrupt Goodell means 2 games.

Maybe the NFL will come down hard on them to appease the fans, as they must know the Patriots must be the most hated team in the league.

I am still not convinced that that is not the reason this whole thing is still going on.

Brady had an organized cheating system going on all season and lied about it. Seems like that's the reason this is going on. Their track record doesn't help.

Considering the same report stated that deflating the balls provided no real competitive advantage, it may not be as bad. As the AFC championship game and Super Bowl showed, the Pats could win with properly inflated balls too.
The part of the report will be used to mount a defense against a drastic punishment.

Mount a defense? That's not how things work in Goodell's NFL.

I don't remember any report showing that the Saints' bounties provided a competitive advantage.
Nor do I recall any proof that taping the sidelines provided a competitive advantage for the Patriots before.

that is weak if that is their defense. That is like steroid users in baseball saying taking roids doesn't help you hit the ball; well if it doesn't help why do you take them? Give me a break.

Reading the wikipedia article on it didn't clear up my confusion one bit

If it didn't help him, why did he go out of his way to do it the whole season? He knowingly cheated, that's the punishment.

Word is that a suspension is coming:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/myers-roger-goodell-suspend-tom-brady-deflategate-article-1.2215881

I heard a lot of teams do it, however.

This is such a big deal over nothing, in my opinion

Exactly. If it doesn't help, why do it? How much it helped isn't the point which many people forget!  This franchise has a history of cheating and if you don't hit them now with a suspension or with a big penalty you will never hit them and they will keep getting away with it and doing it.  They let them slide on Spygate and now we are here. I guarantee if they hit them hard with spygate instead of just a fine and 1 draft pick this would have never taken place. Everyone would have thought twice about it.

It's not about "outcome" or "how much it really helps" deflating these footballs....the bigger point is their INTENT is to cheat and break the rules. They are trying to cheat, the  intent is to cheat! And that's why you gotta hit Brady and the Pats with a substantial penalty.

^^^^

Well let's look at it from a different angle?

How does coming down on the Pats help the Dolphins?  If he is suspended for a couple games, the Pats could still win both those games.  Then, the Dolphins have to deal with an angry Brady whose cage has been rattled.  Remember what happened during the regular season in 2007?

It doesn't matter whether it helps us or not.  The league runs on the integrity of its teams.  If teams are knowingly breaking rules and getting caught, then lying to cover it up, it hurts the brand. 

Let's say you get caught cheating on a test, but it just so happened that the cheat sheet only had notes on the questions that weren't asked.  So, yeah -- you tried to cheat, but it didn't help you, right?  Not only that, but when suspected of cheating, you lied and covered it up to the dean.  Good luck getting off with the "it didn't help me, anyway" excuse.

Actually I think this goes far beyond cheating, this is all about the integrity of the league. This tarnished the integrity of the NFL and that simply cannot be allowed to happen. The NFL needs to take a very strong stance on this. If you do anything that puts a blemish on the league it's going to be dealt with severely to make everyone, coaches, players, ball boys, whomever accountable for their actions and think twice about doing something as silly as removing a few pounds of air from a football. This is not just about cheating to win a football game, this is about the integrity of the NFL. Honestly either Brady is a complete idiot for thinking he wasn't going to get caught or he doesn't give a shit about the league and it's rules and all he cares about is winning at any cost. I've lost of lot of respect for Tom Brady since this happened. This has tarnished his career. It doesn't wipe out his career he'll still be known for everything he's done on the field, but it certainly diminishes his image. He won't be seen as the squeaky clean poster child of the NFL anymore. We've seen the other side of Tom Brady, the part of him that will stop any nothing to win a football game. We admire him for the competitor he his, but there is a line that you don't cross and Brady clearly crossed it.

There are records kept of all your texts.

Like I said before, it isn't the crime. The lying is where the punishment should come down. It speaks to the integrity of the league if they don't address the lying.

by who?

Your carrier and then the government upon request. Different topic for a different thread though.

Anything you delete on your phone can still be recovered, just like on a computer, until it is overwritten.... Unless you're using encryption.

Who said it had to help the Dolphins? Coming down on the Pats is just the right thing to do. Just like coming down on the Saints didn't help the Dolphins but it was the right thing to do.

Your lost on this issue

Absolutely I am lost on this issue.  Because so many sources say so many different things.

And there are other factors to consider, such as the NFL wanting to do what is best to maintain it's popularity.

Are any of you NOT lost on this issue?

The overwhelming majority of sources show that the texts between "the deflator" and the go to for Tom Brady were in cahoots to deflate balls for Brady as per Brady's orders. This is from the report itself.

In addition, Brady refused to cooperate with the NFL and hand over texts and phone calls, even after the NFL said they can screen these themselves so they don't reveal any personal information. That is also from the report.

His lying about this is available to the public via dozens of media outlets.

So, case closed as to whether he cheated and knowingly did so. Only thing left to decide is the punishment.

Did the report clarify if Brady just wanted the balls deflated within league minimums, or if he specifically asked that the balls be lowered below the NFL guidelines?

No its pretty cut and dry. The text messages speak for themselves. Brady cheated.

When the actors are deflating the balls after being inspected by the officials I think it's pretty evident that it would be below league minimums. 

they should give tom brady the pete rose suspension .. indefinite from any football related activities or venues.

Not necessarily. Some of the text msgs made references to the refs leaving the balls highly inflated. In the case of the Indy game, the refs didn't have time to check all the balls pre-game and only inspected 4.

The court of public opinion will call him guilty. But I don't recall, at least in the summary of the report, that they had anything on Brady specifically asking for lower than league limits. That shadow of a doubt will only get him a couple games to show that the league is watching. I'm sure this and other 'shenanigans' happen often.

My official prediction:

Goodell gives Brady a slap on the wrist (<=4 regular season games) and offers up an explanation that the NFL is limited by the evidence.  The subsequent backlash from the weak penalty will "prompt" a public return to harsh penalties on the next offender.

tl;dr Brady does what Brady wanna do

My official reading across ESPN, it is 4 games


Pats lose first rounder next year, 4th year after & pay $1M fine

What was there in the Bountygate report that specifically linked Payton to the bounties for injured players?

It's tough to cite the quality of evidence against Brady when Brady refused to hand over his team-provided phone to investigators.  The fact that the report concluded that he was likely to be aware of the deflation, coupled with his refusal to cooperate, should result in a stiff punishment being handed down.

Of course, the Patriots aren't the Saints and Tom Benson is not Robert Kraft.  So just as the NFL magically destroyed the Spygate tapes, I expect the league office to hand down a very firm slap on the wrist.

P.S. As far as who stands to benefit:

games 1-4: PIT, BUF, JAX, DAL
games 5-8: IND, NYJ, MIA, WSH
games 9-12: NYG, BUF, DEN, PHI
games 13-16: HOU, TEN, NYJ, MIA