The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Suh is being linked to Miami as a possible landing spot per a couple reports. I don't see it happening as Suh wants a truck-load of money and Miami would have to really gut the roster to make room. Other teams are loaded with cap space as it is

We are going to gut the roster anyway. There is so much dead weight on this roster.

They aren't gutting the roster. They are cutting a few key guys and then a bunch of old guys and back-ups. Aside from Hartline and Ellerbee (who didn't even play last year) not one meaningful starter is getting cut. Finnegan is old as dirt, Nate Garner, Brandon Gibson both role players who are easily replaceable. Who else are they cutting that is meaningful....can't name a single guy. Or a starter.

Fins are creating cap space to pay Tannehill and Pouncey.

Pouncey is already going to count over $7 million against the cap. They don't need to cut anyone to create cap space for him. By simply signing him to a long term deal, they will reduce that $7 million number in the first year if they structure it with a low base salary in year 1.

And by the time it is said and done, you will see a lot more guys gone.

Starks, Ellerbe, Wheeler (will get designated a post June 1st cut), don't be surprised if you see Earl Mitchell go as well given there is no cap penalty to cut him.

Additionally, they have to do something about Brandon Fields and his almost $4 million cap hit. He wasn't himself last season and that is too much money for a punter.

Shelly Smith is another dead weight guy. $2.75 million saved by cutting him, very little cap penalty.

Actually, if they cut Starks and Mitchell, that would create almost $10 million in cap and you can sign Suh to a long term deal with a low base salary in year 1 and not have to worry about the impact in later years because the cap space goes wide open for the Dolphins in 2016 and beyond. I wouldn't do it because then you have no flexibility to address anything else unless you draft really well, and the Dolphins are not known for that.

The cuts have just begun for the Dolphins. More to come.

I've been waiting to see this. Let's just stop the discussion here. It isn't happening and I for one am happy it won't. Too much money and too big a douche. It is telling that Detroit didn't even make the appearance of trying to keep him.

If Miami has Monopoly money to pay a player like Suh, I would much rather them go after Revis once the Patriots officially let him out of his contract (which will happen).  They both would cost a tremendous amount, Revis would bring more to the defensive side than would Suh...

...and they are both as likely to happen as me winning the lottery.

Revis is great and all but he is older and his career might have peaked already and its all downside from here. I would rather have Suh as we stand today.

Mark Domonic of ESPN (who was Hickey's boss for years) seems convinced Miami is hot after Suh. And Tannenbaum does like to spend like a drunken sailor so nothing would surprise me. 

Tannenbaum did go hard after Kris Jenkins when he was with the Jets and it panned out early, but then Jenkins broke down.

Suh's agent is BFF's with Tannenbaum. Not sure if that will matter in the end but something to remember

Looks like Odrick won't be back in Miami. Fins want Suh

ESPN Dolphins reporter James Walker believes Miami will let free agent DT Jared Odrick walk.
This doesn't come as a huge surprise. The two sides haven't engaged in contract talks, and the Dolphins seem poised to make a serious run at free agent Ndamukong Suh. Odrick will still have a healthy market after Suh and Terrance Knighton sign their deals. Odrick could command north of $6 million annually as a scheme-versatile lineman who can play 4-3 defensive tackle or 3-4 end.

In order to get Suh, we would need to cut Starks and/or Mitchell.

Pretty sure we were cutting Starks anyway.

Fuck it, as long as we aren't making an ill conceived run to do anything in 2015 and screwing over future cap space.

Suh to Miami is picking up steam, all reporters have it as his likely landing spot. He wants a 6 year deal over $100 mill with $55-$65 mill guaranteed. He will use the Jags and Raiders as leverage to get the most out of Miami and sign with Miami. Tannenbaum is in love with him per reports (and lets be honest he is our real GM not Hickey)

Suh is a dirty player, has some fines and suspensions against him and another one will just keep the suspensions getting longer. That is a downside. Plus he is really a 4-3 DT so IF Philbin fails next year and is fired the next head coach must want a 4-3 defense or else you got $60 million tied up in a guy with no position. And it is VERY hypocritical of Ross and the Fins to get rid of Incognito cause he was "dirty" and a "bad guy"....then turn around and give  a $100 mill contract to Suh! Just sayin!

One big  positive if they sign him, it would be fun to watch Suh stomp Brady's calf or slam his head into the turf next year then come up with an excuse like "I couldn't feel my foot" or "I didn't slam his head into the ground".

No denying his talent, but there appears to be better uses for our money than blowing it all on Suh. I hope the team is really convinced that Davis and Taylor can be big time NFL corners and that is the answer for the future.

If we sign Suh, we are going to need a hell of a draft to fill spots.

And yes, watching him stomp on Brady's hand is worth every penny.

Suh is one of the top 2-3 defensive linemen in the league, and behavioral quirks aside, he would make an incredible addition to Miami's defense. Not sure any DT is worth $17-18 million per year, but if anyone is, it's probably Suh.

On a personal note... If he signs with the Dolphins, it will mean that my dynasty FF squad (20 team IDP) will finally have a Miami player on the roster. ;D

I'm starting to get the feeling Suh is just another in a long line of people using Miami for bidding purposes. We'll see.

You may be right. That or Tannenbaum/Ross are just going to blow the bank on him and cripple this team for years to come.

Colts beat reporter reporting he has been informed by a Colts source that the Colts won't break the bank for Suh. So don't expect it to happen. Pretty much taking them out of the race

Please God no, I can't stand this fucker.

This.   Plus, paying premium money in the free agent market to the point where it puts you in a bind regarding the cap in the future rarely ends up working out well.  The Fins got screwed enough with Wallace.  They don't need to go throwing gazillions at Suh. 

Bad comparison. Suh is a HALL OF FAME level player in his prime. Wallace is just an above average/very good WR who hit the market. Those guys are available every year. Guys like Suh who are hall of fame level players in their prime almost never come available.

I have no problem paying for Suh if they do other things right (like not pay Clay $7 mill this year and work out a long-term deal with him) and cut a bunch of other scrubs eating up cap space.

I wasn't comparing them as players.  I was comparing the practice of throwing tons of money at individual players when your salary cap is not perfet shape.  Suh is a tremendous talent.  However, he is also a tremendous douchebag.  I can overlook the fact that he is the dirtiest player in the league.  You need a certain amount of nasty on your team.  But he is so stupid that he does it blatantly and costs his team over and over again with 15 yard penalties at the worst times. 

I get the concern with the cap and people keep chirping about spending big bucks on free agents. But the Dolphins had drafted Suh, we'd still need to pay big bucks to keep him. I don't think the argument that he is a free agent is relevant. We'd essentially be paying Suh big bucks instead of paying Odrick big bucks, not as big as Suh, but Odrick is not as good.

Suh, Vernon and Wake?  Yes please!

That is an excellent point. If we had drafted Suh we would be paying him this same money now as we are paying him as a FA. And nobody would be thinking twice about it

I thought we were going for the Disney image? Suh shares Incognito's bad image and they share the title of being voted the  "NFL’s dirtiest player" by their peers.

Screw that. Ross just paid $400 mill out of his own pocket to re-do the stadium. He needs it filled every week so he can make back some money! LOL. Big names and winning fills that stadium

The organization looks like hypocrites but so be it

That's a valid point. 

Yeah, but the Lions aren't willing to pay him what he wants, that should tell you something.  Suh's asking price would be $18 - $20 million against the cap for three years, and with his history he has game suspensions coming the next time he gets caught.  I'd love to have a player of his caliber; but not at that price with his history, too much risk.

They have salary cap issues Miami doesn't have. And they franchised tagged him hoping to buy themselves time to fix those issues and they couldn't.  And he still may go back there if the Lions make a touch choice and get rid of a couple good players.

Not sure what you're talking about here. The Lions are almost $20 million under the cap. The Dolphins less than $2 million (not counting cap rollover of about $7 million).

^^they have to pay draft picks, they have other needs to desperately fill. Take away that money and they have nothing for Suh.

Miami can cut like 3 or 4 more guys and have over $10 more mill to spend than Detroit. And Miami will cut those guys. Lions can re-sign Suh but it handcuffs their entire offseason

Lions can make some touch calls and create space for Suh, they just don't want to at this time. By Tuesday that may change

Suh is not going to eat up $20 mil or even $15 mil in year one, no matter where he goes.

Detroit has more cap space now and will have virtually the same amount of cap space in 2016.

The big difference is Detroit has a lot of money tied up in their elite WR and franchise QB. We haven't gotten there yet, but make no mistake, we're going to have to pay Tannehill sooner or later.

I think Detroit could make it work to resign Suh. The only reason they didn't franchise him is because then that cap space would get eaten up immediately. Their hands were tied, but again make no mistake, they could pay him if they really wanted to.

And they might. They have till Tuesday.

Probably not, but his asking price is $18 - $20 mil. per year.

Mike Wallace's cap hit was I believe $3.25 mill his first year in Miami. Then jumped year 2. There are creative ways around these things to make it work

NFL Network reporting Chargers are jumping in with both feet on Suh. They are gonna make a hard push to land him

Go Chargers!

Whatever happens, hope it ends quickly so we have a chance to re-sign Odrick or get Wilfork.

Jason Cole and Charles Robinson reporting it's done. Suh is a Miami Dolphin.

Lions are the only team that can change that prior to Tuesday at 4pm at this point. Suh isn't talking to any other teams and has a deal in place with Miami

I assume this means that we are confident Jamar Taylor and Will Davis can turn it on and become NFL level corners. Otherwise, we just filled one of our holes with all the money we had left.

Draft that Shaquille kid at Linebacker in the 1st round and just add from there. Still need TWO guards though and that should be our biggest priority.

I am fine with Jamar Taylor as a #2 or #3 CB, Taylor is legit!  Davis not so much. They still need 1 CB, 2 Guards, 1 Safety. 1 LB, 1 backup RB. Signing Suh doesn't end free agency for Miami, not by a long shot

It's Official!! Chris Mortensen who is BFF's with Suh's agent. Mort even has the numbers

6 years, $114 mill....$60 mill guaranteed in the first 3 years.

Suh is a Miami Dolphin

$20 Million guaranteed a year for the first 3 years? Holy shit, that's insane. Did Brady or Manning ever make that?

The truth is, these numbers really don't tell the whole story because NFL contracts are weird. We have no idea what the cap hit will be now and for the next few years. Maybe it's not crippling.

Still, Tannenbaum's history does not give him the benefit of the doubt. Ii just hope we are okay in 2016 when we fire Philbin and can really start to try to win again.

Worst news we possibly could have gotten.

It would not surprise me in the slightest to learn that our front office was sabotaging things from the inside.

Like I said, have to wait for the cap numbers to come in. It can be anything. Could essentially be a 3 year contract, can't judge it until then. I have no faith that it won't kill our cap, but I can't say that for certain just yet.

You were saying...

Bad comparison.  60 million over three years vs. 36 million over three years is a huge difference.  Lets just assume Suh's contract was structured similar to Wallace's, the yearly cap hits would be approximately $6 Mil year one, $32 Mil year two, and $22 Mil year three.  With a lot more left over dead money after three years than the $4.4 Mil that Wallace has next year.  Plus Tannehill is going to need to be paid in the near future.

Louis Delmas helped talk Suh into coming to Miami per reports. They were teammates in Detroit and Delmas sold him on playing in Miami and living here. Fins have to give Delmas a contract if that is true and bring him back even if at the vet minimum.

We needed a new headcase to fill the void left by Brandon Marshall and Richie Incognito.

I hate this fucking team, if they really sign him I'll be so pissed.  What a piece of garbage! This team needs to use the money to fill other holes, and pay our own FA's next year.  We will never win anything as long as that ass-clown Ross is calling the shots.  He is just some billionaire wanna be Dan Snyder.  Die in a fire!!!

Do you have the data showing he will count $15 or $20 against the cap in year 1?

That'd be truly amazing considering he hasn't signed yet.

Well I'm eating crow on this one. Suh is an asshole but he's our asshole now I guess.

Um...ooops?

Go join the guy above this post at the crow buffet.  $4.99 all you can eat.

Yahoo reporting the NFL will be talking with Miami in regards to the Suh contract talks. Some believe Miami may have broke the rules and leaked numbers early. Other teams will be talked to as well for other players, but Miami is the one the league has confirmed they are talking to first. They aren't using the word "investigating" but the league will be talking to the Fins. But its a defacto investigation

 

Hopefully Goodell will kill the deal.

No, but he'll probably fine you for having a user name that is almost 3 years past its expiration date... ;)

Would be nice, but I doubt that will happen :(

Sick burn.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/10/dolphins-are-nervous-about-investigation-of-suh-deal/

Oh boy!

Hopefully this isn't another Juwan Howard situation.

not likely.  Could fine the fins or take a pick or do nothing,  but void the deal ain't happening

Mort just said on NFL Radio that there is nothing to worry about. The Fins did nothing wrong and the league won't do anything

I think it has to be the agents leaking the deal numbers, and trying to use the media to start a bidding war for their clients.  After all, what benefit does the team have to releasing the numbers early?  The agents can still get a better deal from another team if they aren't satisfied with the offer in place.

Agreed.

The problem is not that numbers were released. The problem is there are numbers at all. NFL free agency is a stupid process. The rules say teams can negotiate with players over the weekend but contract terms cannot be reached. How can you even negotiate without terms? Stupid process.

I'm hearing a different interpretation from Mort and Omar... basically as long as the Dolphins didn't meet in person with Suh while he was in SoFla we should be fine.

Here is why Suh picked the Dolphins. Details of the contract have been leaked...

Per PFT
Per a league source, the contract that defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh will sign with the Dolphins will include $60 million guaranteed over three years.  And that’s fully guaranteed, not guaranteed for injury until 2015 or 2016 before it converts to fully guaranteed. Teams usually won’t fully guarantee large amounts because the NFL requires teams to fund the fully-guaranteed payments at signing.  In this case, Dolphins owner Stephen Ross will be required to write a check for $60 million, with Suh getting plenty of it up front and the rest going to an escrow account for future distribution.

That is also a rule, but so is the money negotiation aspect. The NFL is upset that contract information is being leaked because deals are in place before the Tuesday start. I've seen it a couple places as well.

Yahoo Sports' Rand Getlin reported that the NFL sent a letter to all 32 teams expressing displeasure that contract terms for many free agents have been reported before free agency starts on Tuesday. Getlin also reported that the league will investigate if teams did in fact come to specific terms on offers with free agents before Tuesday, which is not allowed.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/nfl-isn-t-happy-about-all-these-contract-agreements-before-free-agency-154350515.html;_ylt=A0LEV1M_S_9U20EA5PZXNyoA

Omar's position is likely a CYA one as he was one of the sources of information on the deal being done before they could actually announce it by rule.

The writer seems to agree with me that you cannot negotiate deals without having terms to the deal.

Anyway, the NFL allows teams to discuss parameters of a deal but not come to a written or oral agreement on any specific terms (NFL Network's Albert Breer has the details of that rule). Again, either the NFL is just saving face by talking tough about these rules or it's incredibly naive. If you allow agents and teams to discuss free agents, does the NFL think the two sides are going to talk about what the players' favorite movies are? What else would they be discussing but money?

I'll say it again, the process is stupid.

I'm going to compose a post and tell you guys about it via PM, but I cannot officially post it on the forums.

^^ ooh i wanna see the secret post!

I read yesterday that the Dolphins had the upper hand because of the tax structure.  That the Raiders, for instance, would have to pay him 74 million guaranteed to clear the same post-tax amount, because of California's high state tax. 

Not until 4/25 at 3:27pm.

Im old. Wtf is sick burn?  When you hear a beatles song do you enjoy (or hate) the song or do you ponder the idiocy of the name?

Back on topic, fuck suh and fuck the dolphins for signing him.

I'm going to jump in and say the comparison of Suck for Luck to the Beatles is a travesty.

The Suh contract breakdown is really interesting. Give Aponte and Tannenbaum credit, the one thing they do know how to do is manage a salary cap. 


2015: $985,000 (guaranteed)
2016: $23.5 million (guaranteed)
2017: $10 million (guaranteed)
2018: $17 million (non-guaranteed)
2019: $19 million (non-guaranteed)
2020: $8.36 million (non-guaranteed)

Cap hit:

2015: $6.1 million
2016: $28.6 million
2017: $15.1 million
2018: $22.1 million
2019: $24.1 million
2020: $8.36 million

I thought $60 Million was guaranteed? Those numbers don't add up to that.

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2015/03/11/ndamukong-suh-contract/70176778/

This better explains it for ya

Thanks...I was scratching my head at that one a little bit as well.

Both dumb ass names, pretty simple concept.

Let's see if you feel the same way in a couple years.  Next year is a killer with a $28.6 M cap hit, if the Fins need to sign free agents they are in trouble.  Then after three years, Suh isn't gonna wanna play without a new guaranteed contract; and there will still be $12.75 million of dead cap hit money from his upfront bonus, for a player that may not be on our roster.  Only time will tell, but they certainly mortgaged their future on Suh.

Actually no they aren't in trouble next year. They picked 2016 to take the huge hit for a reason, it wasn't just some random decision. Next year Wake takes a pay cut or is gone (probably gone)...Wallace if he isn't moved this year, will be gone. Mike Pouncey's cap number will be reduced this June or next year, so they will open up space there. And there are a few other contracts that will be off the books or guys gone (maybe Ellerbee) who will be taking a pay cut or be let go because of age or attitude.  They are taking that big Year 2 cap hit for a reason, they looked at this roster and at the guys who WON'T be here next year and decided to take the big hit then.

Not to mention they expect the cap to go up very high, perhaps another $10 Million.

That's an overly optimistic view.  Yes the NFL cap will probably go up, but no one knows for sure by how much.  As things currently stand Suh will use up almost 19% of the Dolphins total cap.  Yes, players will be gone next year, but they need to be replaced, or do you think the Dolphins are only going to field 50 players??  From your posts in other threads you obviously don't give credence to the possibility that Miami is going to be drafting starting players at will, so they will need to sign FA's.  And if you want quality FA's, then Miami is going to have to pay, and any cap increase will go to higher player salaries throughout the NFL, so you can't count on that money just covering Suh's high cap hit, because other teams will be offering higher salaries to the FA's available.

It's not an optimistic view, its the actual view the team has or else they wouldn't have structured the contract that way.Fins are hoping to replace Wake with either Shelby or Jordan. That is the plan, will it work, who knows. They have a plan...will it work, wh oknows.

P.S..I didn't mention anything about the salary cap going up either, that had nothing to do with my point. Somebody else mentioned that.