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Title: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Pappy13 on April 27, 2015, 09:23:51 pm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dll8eMJnTEE&feature=youtu.be
We can only dream. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Thundergod on April 28, 2015, 03:26:05 am And that's when (if I were his boss) I put his ass to cover an e-sport tournament. What an asshole.
Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Phishfan on April 28, 2015, 09:29:53 am I don't listen to the guy. That said, I have no desire to watch anyone playing video games competitively. I find it absurd that Robert Morris University had labeled their esports competitors varsity athletes and placed it under the umbrella of their athletic department. I do not doubt the competitiveness of these events, nor the skill of the players. I just think labeling it as a sport is incorrect. Debaters have skill and compete but they are not athletes either.
Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Sunstroke on April 28, 2015, 10:17:16 am ^^^ Yeah, I have to admit that calling computer or console games a sport is beyond ridiculous. That said, I would love to see Colin Cowturd quit, regardless of the reason. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on April 28, 2015, 12:30:22 pm Either it is a sport or auto Racing is not a sport. There really isn't much difference between the 2. I am okay with saying neither is a sport.
Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Spider-Dan on April 28, 2015, 12:40:38 pm ESPN2 can broadcast poker for untold hours, but as soon as they start showing a videogame, everyone loses their minds!
Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Fau Teixeira on April 28, 2015, 01:10:29 pm Seriously .. Esports is a thing .. maybe not in the US .. but around the world it's a thing.
Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Phishfan on April 28, 2015, 01:17:06 pm ^^^ No one said it isn't a thing. I don't take anything away from the competitors but calling it a sport is wrong.
Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Fau Teixeira on April 28, 2015, 01:18:15 pm why is it wrong ? .. what defines a sport
it's an athletic competition between two or more opponents where they play both offense and defense and they follow a prescribed set of rules with victory conditions and scoring Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Brian Fein on April 28, 2015, 01:37:37 pm ^^ the word "athletic" discounts it from being a sport...
Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on April 28, 2015, 01:51:14 pm why is it wrong ? .. what defines a sport it's an athletic competition between two or more opponents where they play both offense and defense and they follow a prescribed set of rules with victory conditions and scoring Under that def the following are not sports nascar golf Most foot races, swimming races, bike races, etc unless you are allowed to interfere with another racers progress most track and field events most winter Olympic events many summer Olympic events fishing Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Brian Fein on April 28, 2015, 02:35:26 pm I'd agree that races are not sports. They are races. Similar to a competition, most times, your play does not affect your competitor.
That said, no one says that a "race" or "competition" is inherently not as cool as sports, but call it what it is. Waiting for Dave Gray to chime in with his well-thought-out theories on this topic. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on April 28, 2015, 02:51:24 pm That said, no one says that a "race" or "competition" is inherently not as cool as sports, but call it what it is. actually most people consider races a sport and the competitors athletes, it is ONLY on this board have I ever heard such a narrow definition from webster Quote : a contest or game in which people do certain physical activities according to a specific set of rules and compete against each other : a physical activity (such as hunting, fishing, running, swimming, etc.) that is done for enjoyment Video games involve the exact same amount of physical activity as Nascar. Most people consider NASCAR a sport. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Thundergod on April 28, 2015, 03:28:48 pm Even though I agree that this, along with NASCAR and golf, is not a sport. The fact that this is a "sport" should be irrelevant. What I think is messed up is that Cowherd went on to insult people who participate and like watching it. I don't watch it, but if I'm on a well respected nationally broadcasted program why lower yourself to name calling because you don't like it? Nerds? Lock the door to the basement at mom's house? Serious? How fucking ignorant is that.
I'd rather watch linoleum curl than watch soccer, or golf or whatever. But I wouldn't insult those who do, whatever, have at it. Like Spider said, ESPN televises poker. Poker! Spelling bees and hot dog eating contests... but this is what makes him want to put a gun in his mouth? You gotta be fuckin kidding me. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: CF DolFan on April 28, 2015, 03:32:41 pm Video games involve the exact same amount of physical activity as Nascar. Most people consider NASCAR a sport. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Brian Fein on April 28, 2015, 03:40:08 pm Video games involve the exact same amount of physical activity as Nascar. Most people consider NASCAR a sport. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Rich on April 28, 2015, 03:43:31 pm I'd agree that races are not sports. They are races. So track and field is not a sport? Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Dave Gray on April 28, 2015, 03:53:08 pm So track and field is not a sport? I don't think it is. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Rich on April 28, 2015, 04:03:34 pm I don't think it is. Definition of sport: 1. an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment Which of these criteria does track and field not meet? Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Dave Gray on April 28, 2015, 04:13:35 pm It doesn't lack, using that definition. But I don't agree with that definition. It's far too broad and things like air hockey and pool and darts would be considered a sport, which I don't think they are -- they're games.
My definition is the same as Fausto's: A physical competition, governed by a set of rules, where your play directly affects your opponent(s). That's not to say that non-sports are without merit. I think surfing is cool as hell, but it's not a sport. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Rich on April 28, 2015, 04:19:03 pm It doesn't lack, using that definition. But I don't agree with that definition. It's far too broad and things like air hockey and pool and darts would be considered a sport, which I don't think they are -- they're games. My definition is the same as Fausto's: A physical competition, governed by a set of rules, where your play directly affects your opponent(s). That's not to say that non-sports are without merit. I think surfing is cool as hell, but it's not a sport. A definition is a definition, not what you want the definition to be. Otherwise, what would be the purpose of language and vocabulary if we can change the meaning of words based on what we want them to mean? And comparing air hockey and pool and darts to track and field is absurd and would not fall under that definition. There is no physical exertion in those games. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Dave Gray on April 28, 2015, 04:33:21 pm A definition is a definition, not what you want the definition to be. Actually, that's not at all true. (This isn't the first time I've had this discussion.) Dictionaries don't define words. They do their best to extract those definitions from how people use them. Language changes and words mean whatever their understood usage is, even if it contradicts the definition. A dictionary can give you a good idea of what words are used for in society, but are in no way a definitive meaning. (And there is absolutely physical exertion in air hockey. The ability to move quickly and hit hard increases your ability to play the game.) Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Phishfan on April 28, 2015, 04:42:27 pm Otherwise, what would be the purpose of language and vocabulary if we can change the meaning of words based on what we want them to mean? We change the meaning of words all the time. Just think of how many slang terms worked into everyday life; sick, chill, tight, etc. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Rich on April 28, 2015, 04:56:24 pm Actually, that's not at all true. (This isn't the first time I've had this discussion.) Dictionaries don't define words. They do their best to extract those definitions from how people use them. Language changes and words mean whatever their understood usage is, even if it contradicts the definition. A dictionary can give you a good idea of what words are used for in society, but are in no way a definitive meaning. (And there is absolutely physical exertion in air hockey. The ability to move quickly and hit hard increases your ability to play the game.) We rely on authoritative sources to define words. In particular, the word "sports" as defined by SportAccord. And now you are redifining the word exertion to suit your argument. If you need to exert to play air hockey, it's because you are in dire need of exercise, not because air hockey requires exertion. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Rich on April 28, 2015, 04:58:45 pm We change the meaning of words all the time. Just think of how many slang terms worked into everyday life; sick, chill, tight, etc. I thought we were talking about the actual definition of words, not slang. Those are two different things. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Dave Gray on April 28, 2015, 05:03:45 pm We rely on authoritative sources to define words. No we don't. They rely on us. You have it backwards. Nobody asked "Webster" if it was ok to start saying "ginourmous". People started using it as they saw fit and it was adopted into language. "Woot" is a term of joy. Thus, it's completely OK for you and I to have a different understanding of the word "sport". In fact, many definitions in dictionaries have many, many choices, sometimes ones that contradict each other. In fact "literally" now means both "literally" and "figuratively". How is it possible, then, that a word means both itself and its opposite if what you're saying is true? Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Brian Fein on April 28, 2015, 06:51:32 pm And now you are redifining the word exertion to suit your argument. If you need to exert to play air hockey, it's because you are in dire need of exercise, not because air hockey requires exertion. So, for a 350 pound truck driver, air hockey is a sport, but not for LeBron James?Doesn't the definition have to be independent of the person engaging in said event? In fact "literally" now means both "literally" and "figuratively". I absolutely despise the overuse of the word "literally" for emphasis, and call people out on it frequently. Literally nothing worse. :)Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: masterfins on April 28, 2015, 07:07:31 pm Sports = use of some type of ball and a level of physical exertion enough to cause you to sweat.
Athletic Events = same as above but no ball, no disrespect intended. Video games = neither of the above. I don't care whether they show video games on ESPN, but it's not a sport nor is it an athletic event; and not being a gamer I'm not watching it. Of course I long for the days when they actually showed music videos on MTV. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Spider-Dan on April 28, 2015, 07:23:47 pm It doesn't lack, using that definition. But I don't agree with that definition. It's far too broad and things like air hockey and pool and darts would be considered a sport, which I don't think they are -- they're games. So you're basically saying that the vast majority of the Olympics are not sports.My definition is the same as Fausto's: A physical competition, governed by a set of rules, where your play directly affects your opponent(s). If track and field doesn't count as a sport then we might as well stop using the term. Not every sport requires head-to-head competition. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Pappy13 on April 28, 2015, 07:24:14 pm I think we are getting a little off track here. It doesn't matter whether or not this is a sport, all that matters is that it's a competition and without question this is a competition. I don't see any reason that ESPN shouldn't broadcast it.
Now I have a theory on Cowherds comments. Technically speaking Cowherd just covered a video game by mentioning it on his show and I suspect this was done without ESPN asking him to do it so if you think about it Cowherd is saying that he'd quit if ESPN asked him to cover it, but he'll cover it without ESPN even asking him to do it. Cowherd loves a little controversy. I got a feeling that Cowherd really doesn't have a huge problem with this being on ESPN, but he spun it in a way that would cause controversy and even potentially bring a little attention to something that some people may have missed. My guess is that ESPN loved Cowherd's comments and I suspect that Cowherd did it knowing that ESPN would love it. ESPN is going to be showing other video games later this year, I seriously doubt that Cowherd is unaware of that. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Cowherd mention it again on his show...without ESPN even asking. :) Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Sunstroke on April 28, 2015, 08:06:27 pm So many individual points to chime in on... Video games: Not a sport Air hockey: Not a sport World Series of Poker: Not a sport Nascar/Auto racing: Sport Track & Field: Sport Surfing: Sport Definitions: Dictated by popular usage Colin Cowherd: Annoyingly lame mama's boy Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Dave Gray on April 28, 2015, 08:41:04 pm So you're basically saying that the vast majority of the Olympics are not sports. Correct. They are athletic competitions, but not sports, in my eyes. Back on topic, I don't care whether ESPN covers gaming competitions or not. I think that they probably should, since they hurt for content anyway and they already show things like fishing and poker. So...whatever. I don't see why it would bother anyone. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Fau Teixeira on April 29, 2015, 09:35:39 am air hockey is as much of a sport as billiards .. or ping pong.
explain to me the difference between professional table tennis and real tennis .. other than the size of the court and equipment ? Gamers have died from gaming too much for too long .. to say there wasn't physical effort involved in gaming is uninformed. Professional gamers follow training regimens, have coaches and sponsors, scout the opposition. Leagues exist with detailed win / loss stats and breakdowns. a professional starcraft 2 competitor will average 200 mouseclicks per minute .. sure they aren't driving a car and making left hand turns for 3 hours .. and they aren't pole vaulting 4 times over a half hour .. but the fast-twitch and hand-eye coordination are what defines the athletic parameters of esports. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Phishfan on April 29, 2015, 10:08:33 am Gamers have died from gaming too much for too long .. to say there wasn't physical effort involved in gaming is uninformed. Crackheads have also died from too much for too long but we don't call that a sport either. What you are talking about is addiction, not competition. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Brian Fein on April 29, 2015, 10:24:48 am Gamers have died from gaming too much for too long .. to say there wasn't physical effort involved in gaming is uninformed. Gotta be honest I think you went a bit far here. Gaming, at most, involves movement of nothing more than your forearms, while sitting in a chair. I'm not sure how you would consider it to be "athletic exertion" if you're only moving your thumbs or clicking a mouse...Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: MikeO on April 29, 2015, 10:33:40 am Back on topic, I don't care whether ESPN covers gaming competitions or not. I think that they probably should, since they hurt for content anyway and they already show things like fishing and poker. So...whatever. I don't see why it would bother anyone. ESPN SportsCenter was showing highlights of pro wrestling earlier this month and doing a break down of a certain match acting like it was an NBA game or MLB game and giving it credence. Covering video games would be a step up for ESPN these days! lol Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Sunstroke on April 29, 2015, 10:33:45 am a professional starcraft 2 competitor will average 200 mouseclicks per minute Midget porn fanatics will yank it up to 200 times per minute for hours at a time, but I'll stop short of calling myself...er...that other guy, an endurance athlete. Crackheads have also died from too much for too long but we don't call that a sport either. What you are talking about is addiction, not competition. Personally, I would love to watch the Crackhead Olympics... Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Dave Gray on April 29, 2015, 10:56:28 am I think that ESPN should give way more coverage to MMA than it does.
It's a legitimate sport that's popular and there's a pretty good amount of strategy to discuss pre- and post- fights. Meanwhile, they show fishing. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Brian Fein on April 29, 2015, 11:02:10 am ^^ I think ESPN should give way more coverage to NHL hockey than it does.
They barely recognize that hockey is a thing, and short of someone's earlier definition including the word "ball," I haven't see a single definition that would discount hockey as a sport. Yet, ESPN would rather televise world series of poker while the NHL Playoffs are in full swing. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on April 29, 2015, 11:08:44 am ^^ I think ESPN should give way more coverage to NHL hockey than it does. They barely recognize that hockey is a thing, and short of someone's earlier definition including the word "ball," I haven't see a single definition that would discount hockey as a sport. Yet, ESPN would rather televise world series of poker while the NHL Playoffs are in full swing. ESPN televises based on two things: the cost to acquire the programing & the projected viewership/ad revenue generated by said programing. Poker is quite popular and probably cheaper to acquire the rights to than NHL. ESPN would show more hockey if people would watch more hockey. Odds are e-gaming is not going supplant a college bowl game. It will be used during dead time (e.g 4 am) or times in which ESPN can not compete with another networks sports programing (e.g. during the superbowl) Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Phishfan on April 29, 2015, 11:33:38 am I don't get your issue with ESPN having to cover the playoffs Brian. Why does it have to be ESPN? Every game has been televised by other networks (thank you NBC).
Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: masterfins on April 29, 2015, 11:41:40 am ^^ I think ESPN should give way more coverage to NHL hockey than it does. They barely recognize that hockey is a thing, and short of someone's earlier definition including the word "ball," I haven't see a single definition that would discount hockey as a sport. Yet, ESPN would rather televise world series of poker while the NHL Playoffs are in full swing. I'd amend my earlier statement to include a hockey puck, but please no ping pong balls or shuttle cocks. I've said before, I think hockey on TV is really growing with the advent of Hi-Def television, it makes watching hockey on TV enjoyable. It will continue to grow viewership, the problem is there are large sections of the country where kids can't go out in the wintertime and skate, so they don't develop a passion for the game. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: MikeO on April 29, 2015, 11:41:48 am I think that ESPN should give way more coverage to MMA than it does. It's a legitimate sport that's popular and there's a pretty good amount of strategy to discuss pre- and post- fights. Meanwhile, they show fishing. 2 factors play into the UFC and NHL coverage on ESPN. Only one company in MMA matters, and that's UFC. UFC has a deal with FOX....hence ESPN won't give MMA a lot of coverage. If UFC was on ESPN in America it would get more coverage. Plus UFC has a "niche" audience in this country. NHL is a very regional sport with a "niche" audience in the United States. ESPN gives the proper coverage to hockey for the fan-base hockey has in this country. Plus they don't own the rights and NBC does. Just like MMA, if ESPN had the rights they would cover it more. But with the NHL it has more to do with the "niche" audience in the United States. It's just not that popular in this country. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on April 29, 2015, 12:02:12 pm I'd amend my earlier statement to include a hockey puck, but please no ping pong balls or shuttle cocks. Under what objective definition can table tennis not be considered a sport? Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Dave Gray on April 29, 2015, 12:11:40 pm Argument technique that I HATE HATE HATE but see in this thread.
Person 1 makes logical fallacy: "Drinking gatorade is good for you. It's mostly water!" Person 2 points out logical fallacy by using same logical fallacy: "Piss is mostly water. It must be good for you." Person 1 claims false equivalence: "Oh, now you're comparing gatorade to piss?" Maddening. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Brian Fein on April 29, 2015, 12:16:39 pm ESPN televises based on two things: the cost to acquire the programing & the projected viewership/ad revenue generated by said programing. Poker is quite popular and probably cheaper to acquire the rights to than NHL. ESPN would show more hockey if people would watch more hockey. I'd love you to take a poll to see if people would rather watch a hockey game or a poker game. We'll see which is more popular. ESPN doesn't cover hockey for one reason: they don't have the contractual rights to do so. NBCSports has the exclusive rights to show all hockey games and they do a great job. If ESPN had the rights to NHL, they'd be showing wall-to-wall playoffs coverage. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Dave Gray on April 29, 2015, 12:19:40 pm I'd rather watch poker. I do watch it sometimes.
I don't really care about ESPN's coverage of hockey, in terms of showing full games, but I do think that they should give time to talking about the storylines more than they do (UFC, as well). You rarely see a real hockey discussion on PTI and usually it's just some fluff piece. But ESPN is protecting its own interests. It talks about the games that it shows. It's understandable....just unfortunate. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: MikeO on April 29, 2015, 12:27:53 pm Under what objective definition can table tennis not be considered a sport? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RN82Tz8EkM Agree! They even celebrate like other athletes. Table Tennis IS a sport! Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: MikeO on April 29, 2015, 12:29:18 pm I'd love you to take a poll to see if people would rather watch a hockey game or a poker game. We'll see which is more popular. Be careful, NHL might not win that poll Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on April 29, 2015, 12:35:25 pm I'd love you to take a poll to see if people would rather watch a hockey game or a poker game. We'll see which is more popular. Or rather than a poll we could use the nelson ratings. Poker is slightly more popular regular season hockey, but considerably less popular than post-season hockey. Quote ESPN doesn't cover hockey for one reason: they don't have the contractual rights to do so. NBCSports has the exclusive rights to show all hockey games and they do a great job. If ESPN had the rights to NHL, they'd be showing wall-to-wall playoffs coverage. And the reason why they don't have the rights is they didn't think it would be popular enough to justify out biding NBC. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Brian Fein on April 29, 2015, 12:40:12 pm Or rather than a poll we could use the nelson ratings. Poker is slightly more popular regular season hockey, but considerably less popular than post-season hockey. Data please. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Spider-Dan on April 29, 2015, 12:54:29 pm Under what objective definition can table tennis not be considered a sport? Under what objective definition is table tennis a sport but air hockey not a sport?It seems like people in this thread are basically using the term "sport" as a shorthand way to categorize competition that they view as serious or unserious. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: MikeO on April 29, 2015, 12:56:35 pm Data please. http://wickedchopspoker.com/2014-wsop-ratings-state-poker-tv/ While these are not the same 1.6’s we saw in the heyday of televised poker, the numbers still outclass your typical regular season MLB, CBB and NBA game (and crushes MLS, even though MLS pulls a growing 18-34 male demo). And unlike MLB, CBB and NBA games, ESPN can re-air the shows to steady .3-.4 ratings throughout the year. The WSOP on ESPN is also typically the #1 or #2 DVR’d show, something that “stick & ball” programming can’t claim. http://www.tvweek.com/tvbizwire/2015/04/with-l-a-and-boston-not-making-the-nhl-playoffs-opening-games-ratings-surprisingly-strong/ And this is the opening round this year of PLAYOFF (not regular season, but PLAYOFF) hockey Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Dave Gray on April 29, 2015, 01:01:46 pm Under what objective definition is table tennis a sport but air hockey not a sport? It seems like people in this thread are basically using the term "sport" as a shorthand way to categorize competition that they view as serious or unserious. Just playing devil's advocate here, since I agree that they're both sports, but the "physical" part of the definition is up for interpretation. There is SOME gray area there. If you were to draw the line by saying that table tennis is on one side and air hockey is on the other, I'd have no problem with that. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Fau Teixeira on April 29, 2015, 01:10:22 pm Gotta be honest I think you went a bit far here. Gaming, at most, involves movement of nothing more than your forearms, while sitting in a chair. I'm not sure how you would consider it to be "athletic exertion" if you're only moving your thumbs or clicking a mouse... are you telling me a DDR competition isn't athletic ? Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Brian Fein on April 29, 2015, 01:48:11 pm http://wickedchopspoker.com/2014-wsop-ratings-state-poker-tv/ While these are not the same 1.6’s we saw in the heyday of televised poker, the numbers still outclass your typical regular season MLB, CBB and NBA game (and crushes MLS, even though MLS pulls a growing 18-34 male demo). And unlike MLB, CBB and NBA games, ESPN can re-air the shows to steady .3-.4 ratings throughout the year. The WSOP on ESPN is also typically the #1 or #2 DVR’d show, something that “stick & ball” programming can’t claim. http://www.tvweek.com/tvbizwire/2015/04/with-l-a-and-boston-not-making-the-nhl-playoffs-opening-games-ratings-surprisingly-strong/ And this is the opening round this year of PLAYOFF (not regular season, but PLAYOFF) hockey So you're comparing 459,000 viewers of poker to 448,000 PER GAME (x 7 games = 3.1 million viewers) and telling me that poker is MORE popular? Just making sure. (this doesn't even account for the fact that many more households receive ESPN than NBC Sports) Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: MikeO on April 29, 2015, 02:01:24 pm So you're comparing 459,000 viewers of poker to 448,000 PER GAME (x 7 games = 3.1 million viewers) and telling me that poker is MORE popular? Just making sure. (this doesn't even account for the fact that many more households receive ESPN than NBC Sports) You made it sound like NHL would crush poker in ratings when in fact they lose. And that is PLAYOFF NHL. Poker destroys your regular season NHL game Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Brian Fein on April 29, 2015, 04:03:31 pm They lose?
I don't see where you think 3.1 million < 459k Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Cathal on April 29, 2015, 04:11:39 pm Why are you comparing a per game viewership and multiplying it out by 7 by the viewership on one event? (Just curious)
Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Brian Fein on April 29, 2015, 04:35:07 pm Because the discussion, as ludicrous and tangential it is, was that more people are interested in hockey than poker.
Yet, somehow it devolved into tv ratings for a particular event. You want to compare ALL poker events (one) to all hockey events as a metric? fine. But don't compare all poker events to an AVERAGE of all hockey games and tell me that "more people like poker than hockey." People who watch hockey like different teams, have different interests. We're not comparing the World Series of Poker to the Canadiens vs Senators game. Compared to one singular game, Poker might have more viewers (depending on who's playing), but other games, like that Rangers/Pens game, almost doubled WSOP at its peak. Selective stats rule! Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: MikeO on April 29, 2015, 06:27:35 pm The only one playing around with the numbers is you Brian. Look Poker and Hockey is close to the same viewership in this country. In the NHL playoffs the NHL might eek out a win here or there. During the NHL regular season Poker draws higher ratings than most MLB, NBA, and NHL games. Those are facts, not sure why you want to argue that stance. Poker has a large TV following in this country.
The point being made is what is more watched on TV. If you did a poll more people might like going to live hockey events, playing hockey, and such compared to playing poker. But when it comes to TV Watching....more people would rather watch POKER on TV than hockey! Just a fact. Also the fact that its the 1st or 2nd most DVR'd program on ESPN speaks volumes! NO other sport draws DVR viewership and rankings like that. And you can't compare NHL games on NBC (network) to Poker games on cable. You must compare NHL games on NBCSN to Poker on ESPN. Cable to Cable comparison. IF Hockey is so much more popular it shouldn't matter if its on NBCSN Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: masterfins on April 29, 2015, 06:40:55 pm Under what objective definition can table tennis not be considered a sport? I don't really care about objective definitions, or the parsing of words, etc. It's like pornography vs. art, a Supreme Court Justice said when you look at it you can tell what is art and what is pornography. Now one person may look at something and say that's pornography, while I may look at it and say "that's some fine art and I want to hang it in my living room". Same with the discussion here on what constitutes a "sport". I'm a little older than some of you, so I go with the classics as "sports": baseball, football, basketball, hockey, tennis, golf, softball, soccer, lacrosse, volleyball, and I'm probably missing a few others. Some of you may consider Nascar a "sport", I don't. Yes I would agree that you have to be in great shape to drive those damn cars for 600 miles, I just don't call it a "sport"; if you want to I'm not gonna argue with you over it. Sorry, but video games are games, not sports and not athletic events. Otherwise, you might as well consider playing monopoly and risk as competing in "sports". Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Pappy13 on April 29, 2015, 07:57:42 pm Because the discussion, as ludicrous and tangential it is, was that more people are interested in hockey than poker. Got to agree with Brian here. If there are 4 hockey games on TV in one night you can't compare 1 of the games to a single poker tournament. You got to compare the totals for all 4 hockey games to the single poker tournament. At the very least you have to add the numbers of 2 hockey games that are on at the same time with the 1 poker tournament. No one is watching both hockey games at the same time, so if each is getting 250K, then hockey is getting 500K at the time.Yet, somehow it devolved into tv ratings for a particular event. You want to compare ALL poker events (one) to all hockey events as a metric? fine. But don't compare all poker events to an AVERAGE of all hockey games and tell me that "more people like poker than hockey." Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: MikeO on April 29, 2015, 10:00:22 pm Got to agree with Brian here. If there are 4 hockey games on TV in one night you can't compare 1 of the games to a single poker tournament. You got to compare the totals for all 4 hockey games to the single poker tournament. At the very least you have to add the numbers of 2 hockey games that are on at the same time with the 1 poker tournament. No one is watching both hockey games at the same time, so if each is getting 250K, then hockey is getting 500K at the time. Um, NO! The NHL never has 4 national games broadcast during the regular season on a cross country Cable network on one night. They may air a bunch of games regionally but NBC Sports Network never airs 4 national games in one night during the regular season. Hence you take the 1 national game they do air and you can compare it to the poker ratings. That's how it works. Can't compare a Phoenix-Nashville game that is only airing in 2 markets to a national poker rating on ESPN. That isn't fair. You take the 1 NHL game broadcast nationally on NBCSN and compare it to the Poker on ESPN. You can't add up 12 hockey games in a single night and count that as one rating. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Pappy13 on April 29, 2015, 10:08:26 pm Um, NO! The NHL never has 4 national games broadcast during the regular season on a cross country Cable network on one night. I'm not talking regular season, I'm talking playoffs. Pretty sure they were showing 4 nationally televised games all last week. 2 games on NBC and 2 games on NBCSN or whatever it's called.Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: MikeO on April 29, 2015, 10:10:14 pm I'm not talking regular season, I'm talking playoffs. Pretty sure they were showing 4 nationally televised games all last week. 2 games on NBC and 2 games on NBCSN or whatever it's called. Yeah in the playoffs, but doesn't change the fact that Poker gets higher ratings than the vast majority of MLB, NHL, and NBA regular season games. That's the bulk of the sports season! The damn regular season. that's what this conversation was about P.S...NBC doesn't count in this comparison because thats a NETWORK. These are cable ratings. 2 very different worlds. They ratings aren't calculated the same and aren't equivalent Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Pappy13 on April 29, 2015, 10:12:26 pm Yeah in the playoffs You specifically brought up playoffs. And this is the opening round this year of PLAYOFF (not regular season, but PLAYOFF) hockey Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: MikeO on April 29, 2015, 10:13:27 pm You specifically brought up playoffs. um, no. I was quoting the example FROM THE ARTICLE!! Nice job removing the rest of the sentence and the context of the post. Nevermind. You clearly can't keep up with this conversation. It's clearly way over your head Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Pappy13 on April 29, 2015, 10:16:58 pm Was this from the article too?
In the NHL playoffs the NHL might eek out a win here or there. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: MikeO on April 29, 2015, 10:17:19 pm Was this from the article too? No but its a fact...lol Want to compare nationally televised Cable NHL playoff games to Cable Poker events? Go for it, the NHL will win a few nights and Poker will win some nights. They will go back and forth, nobody is saying otherwise. But it ain't gonna be by much when either wins the night. Then when the regular season rolls around Poker will crush it in the ratings night in and night out Nobody is knocking hockey. I love hockey. But the facts are the facts Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Pappy13 on April 29, 2015, 10:24:14 pm Want to compare nationally televised Cable NHL playoff games to Cable Poker events? Go for it, the NHL will win a few nights and Poker will win some nights. They will go back and forth, nobody is saying otherwise. But it ain't gonna be by much when either wins the night. All I'm saying is that if the NHL has 2 games on at the same time, you have to combine the viewers for each to get the total for hockey. That's what Brian was pointing out. I agreed with him on that point. Do you agree or disagree with that point? 2 games at 250K viewership each at the same time beats 1 poker tourney at 450K viewership. Yes or no?Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: MikeO on April 29, 2015, 10:31:30 pm All I'm saying is that if the NHL has 2 games on at the same time, you have to combine the viewers for each to get the total for hockey. That's what Brian was pointing out. I agreed with him on that point. Do you agree or disagree with that point? 2 games at 250K viewership at the same time beats 1 poker tourney at 450K viewership. Yes or no? No, I don't agree because that's not how TV ratings work in this country. You can't combine the audience of 2 different events on 2 different channels for 1 rating. That's now how ratings work and how they are calculated. You go to an advertiser with that logic and they will laugh in your face. If the NHL splits the baby by putting 2 NATIONAL games on cable at the same time (which only happens in the playoffs and is the exception not the norm) they are only hurting themselves. It's bad business and they can't claim victory when the 1 poker event draws a higher rating than each individual hockey game. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Pappy13 on April 29, 2015, 11:30:32 pm No, I don't agree because that's not how TV ratings work in this country. You can't combine the audience of 2 different events on 2 different channels for 1 rating. Has nothing to do with the rating, has to do with what the total audience is for the sport. 2 games for the same sport at the same time count toward the total for that sport. As far as the advertising goes it's cumulative as well. If I agree to put my ad on 2 of your channels at the same time that are each getting 250K viewership, I'm getting 500K views for my ad across those 2 channels. That's better than putting my ad on 1 channel that's going to get 450K viewers.That's just my opinion, I could be wrong. Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Brian Fein on April 30, 2015, 11:02:11 am This thread has run its course.
No, I don't agree because that's not how TV ratings work in this country. You can't combine the audience of 2 different events on 2 different channels for 1 rating. the statement was who would watch hockey (the sport, not one specific game) vs poker. All events on all channels for each. The Sport - on ANY channel - not a singular event. Another good thread ruined by a MikeO semantics festival. ::) Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: MikeO on April 30, 2015, 11:37:28 am This thread has run its course. the statement was who would watch hockey (the sport, not one specific game) vs poker. All events on all channels for each. The Sport - on ANY channel - not a singular event. Another good thread ruined by a MikeO semantics festival. ::) Um, no. You changed the argument half way through when you realized you were wrong. YOU said this originally.. I'd love you to take a poll to see if people would rather watch a hockey game or a poker game. We'll see which is more popular. That is a singular event. Game vs Game. But whatever,. Stay Classy Brian! Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Brian Fein on April 30, 2015, 01:01:07 pm Um, no. You changed the argument half way through when you realized you were wrong. YOU said this originally.. Exactly - That is a singular event. Game vs Game. But whatever,. Stay Classy Brian! Semantics festival. ::) Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: MikeO on April 30, 2015, 01:05:37 pm Exactly - Semantics festival. ::) No, I respond to your opinion and prove it wrong. So you change the original stance and act like you never said it. That isn't semantics. As I said, Stay Classy! Title: Re: Colin would quit if he had to cover an eSport. Post by: Brian Fein on April 30, 2015, 01:17:13 pm Whatever, Mike, believe what you want. Sorry for using the word game, and thanks for derailing a conversation about eSports, just so you can be right again.
My statement had intent, and it was to illustrate interest in a particular genre. Not "how many people actually watch a single event on tv." Sorry for using the word "game" in my original statement. ::) |