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http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12867594/punishments-handed-tom-brady-new-england-patriots-deflategate

NEW YORK -- The NFL has suspended Super Bowl MVP Tom Brady without pay for the first four games of the season, fined the New England Patriots $1 million and took away two draft picks as punishment for deflating footballs used in the AFC title game, the league said in a statement Monday.

The NFL also indefinitely suspended the two equipment staffers believed to have carried out the plan, including one who called himself "The Deflator."

Brady will miss the season's showcase kickoff game Sept. 10 against Pittsburgh, Week 2 at Buffalo, a home game against Jacksonville and a game at Dallas. He will return the week the Patriots face the Colts in Indianapolis. [...]

The Patriots will also lose a first-round pick in 2016 and a fourth-round pick in 2017.

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Seems about right to me.  An organizational punishment is appropriate, as multiple people within the Patriots organization conspired to break the rules.

Should have been 6 games minimum IMO

I could have seen more games and less picks, but it wasn't just Brady that was doing this.  A suspension for Brady and lost picks seems appropriate (the fine is meaningless for an NFL team), as it spreads the blame.

Brady and the Pats got off really lightly on this, but since the Patriots were involved, I'm surprised anything happened at all. 

I'm satisfied with this. I'll certainly be upset if it drops to two games on appeal. I didn't expect draft picks so that was a bonus.

I am sure he will appeal, but what is his case? He may drop the appeal just to get this out of the news.

It's a fair punishment

Talk about laying the law down on somebody

They're lucky that Goodell forgot that he suspended Payton for a year while admitting he only did it because he was the coach and should've known.

If the Dolphins were caught doing this, what do you think the punishment should be? 

Probably the same, less if they cooperated with the league unlike Brady and the Pats. This is why the NFL stressed that the punishment also was because of how Brady lied and did not help the investigation, rather than just for the act. So, it will be hard to overturn or reduce with an arbitrator rather than if it were just about the footballs.

Brady's agent went batshit insane earlier today, essentially calling the NFL suspension system a joke and they're a bunch of liars. I guess this really caught Brady off guard even though everyone knew he was getting suspended. No rational person would release that statement out of anything but instant rage.

They probably felt the intentional attempted injuring of other players was a worse crime against the league than using under inflated footballs.

That's a pretty difficult argument to make if the players are delivering game-legal hits.

Don't forget that it was Payton's 2nd strike since he had already been warned once. If this happens again with Brady I'm sure the suspension would be for a year.

What about Bellicheat? I know he has something to do with it as well.

So how many games of a Tom Brady suspension would you say a 1st and 4th round pick are equal to?

Originally, I said a 4 game suspension would be a slap on the wrist, but a first-round pick is definitely nothing of the sort.  Is a 1st equal to 4 games?  8 games?  The 4th is probably equal to 1 game, at most.

I have looked on several other forums and people want to boil this down to a few points:

- 4 of games for deflating balls when [terrible other incident] only got [X] games?
- deflating balls wouldn't have made a difference
- Every pro-athlete tries to find an edge

1. These things don't happen in a vacuum.  The Patriots have had multiple scandals for cheating over the last few years.
2. The punishment doesn't ONLY include deflating balls.  It also includes lying to cover it up during an official investigation.
3. The NFL has to lay the hammer down after being lenient with a lot of these other things.  Also, the NFL can't play favorites with Brady.  He's the white, clean-cut QB -- he needs to face the same wrath as these thuggy dudes or the NFL will hear it.
4. It doesn't matter if the cheating worked.  It was the intent to harm the integrity of the league and the cover-up associated with it.
5. It doesn't matter if everyone does it.  The rules are clear and Brady got caught.

A 1st is also a slap on the wrist for the Patriots since they are always drafting around the 29th pick or later.

The Patriots have been championship calibur for 15 years.  FIFTEEN.  Name me one other franchise in NFL history that was a Super Bowl contender for 15 consecutive seasons. 

70's Steelers?
90's Cowboys?
90's Bills?
80's 49ers?

All great dynasty teams but I don't think any lasted 15 years.

I don't see how you maintain that level of performance for that long without doing some underhanded manipulation of competitive advantage.  In today's NFL, I don't see how that's possible.  I think it was just a matter of time before they got caught.  They are probably doing 20 things every Sunday that violate league rules.  This is just the one they got caught doing.

They already got caught once. Did you forget Spygate?

Every single Patriot Superbowl Championship has an asterisk next to it.

The 49ers won their first title in 1980 1981 and their last one in 1994.  From 1981 to 1998 they failed to win the NFC West 4 times ('82, '85, '91, '96).
On a related note, they were also found to have cheated (paying players under the table to evade the salary cap).

I would be satisfied if Belichick had received a bit of punishment as well. It's his team. He needs to know what's going on. If he doesn't, that's an issue.

Nope, definitely remember that, and the wrist-slapping they got as a result.  The "penalty" was a joke.  This is their SECOND offense.  There could be a 3rd, 4th, and 5th offense also, if someone started really digging.

I recall the justification for suspending Sean Payton for "bountygate" had to do with "you're the coach, you should have a better handle on your team."  He was suspended for a year.

Not sure why that same logic doesn't apply in this case as well.

The big difference is that Bountygate is a player safety issue.

Exactly.

Tell me why bounties merit suspensions and PEDs merit suspensions but tampering with equipment to provide yourself an advantage is not so serious.

This is like saying that steroids are evil but corked bats are fine.

Understanding this is a board filled with "string up the Patriot loser cheater" thinkers...Here is where I have slight issue with the penalty, kinda:

1:  The evidence is flawed (at least it's worded in a way to present that it's flawed - perhaps to protect themselves from lawsuit).  However there is no "smoking gun."

2:  This has never been an issue before.  Has anyone ever heard the league make an issue about game balls?  Ever?  Suddenly this is an issue.

3:  I REALLY don't like that this feels like a sting, it feels like the NFL - and other teams, worked against the Patriots.  Again, on an issue which has never been an issue before.  You can't speak to the "integrity" of the game, and operate in this manner.  It works both ways.  Issue an edict, have teams violate the edict, issue a warning - and then, if needed, do investigations for teams which breaks the rules.

4:  This is done by every team, on every level.  Brad Johnson is on record stating he paid someone $7,500.00 moments before Tampa Bay's only SB win to doctor up the balls exactly the way he wanted them.  Aaron Rodgers has stated he doctors his.  The Vikings were caught keeping game balls next to a heater during a cold, raining game.  This is common place, but the NFL decided this is where they wanted to make their "stand."

It feels like they (the NFL) wanted to make an example out of NE due to the perception of NE being "the biggest cheaters out there" (they aren't, Denver is, sorry*).  So, for me, I kinda have a problem with this.

*http://yourteamcheats.com/

I think a fine for both the player and organization fits, along with two lower level draft picks.  Now everyone knows, don't mess with the game balls.  Do it *again* and this type of punishment "fits the crime."  But this time?  

Nope.

If the NFL will over-reach on this, they will over-reach on everything.  Don't think your team, or Miami, is immune.  

My two cents.  Isn't worth much.

I couldn't tell you that because I never made that argument.

The smoking gun is the deflated balls that were not deflated when the official certified them before the game.

Taping the sidelines was never an issue before.  Player bounties were never an issue before.  Domestic violence was never a league issue before.

The "everyone else does it too!" argument never works.  And a major component of the violation is that Brady and the equipment managers clearly knew what they were doing was against the rules, which is why they were doing it in secret and trying to cover it up after the fact.  This is not comparable to placing balls next to a heater in the open during a game.

They've been overreaching ever since Goodell was hired, which was why Sean Payton got a year for something he wasn't even directly involved in.  But now that it's Diamond Tom Brady and the Magical Patriots, suddenly We Must Practice Clemency!

The Patriots got enough clemency when the league office burned the Spygate tapes.  They did need to be made an example of.

Maine, you really think the NFL went on a witch-hunt or performed a sting operation against the Patriots? The Patriots?

1. There doesn't need to be a smoking gun. What there needs to be is a more than likely scenario which this more than meets.

2 - 4 These are all related. You can't say it has never been an issue and then bring up a previous issue. The edict was issued. The NFL released a statement to all teams after the Vikings - Panthers game that the balls were not to be messed with. The edict was issued and the Patriots ignored it. You can't complain about a sting at that point. I don't believe this fits the definition of sting anyway. What did the NFL do to "sting" the Patriots, schedule them to play a football game?

Goodell and Kraft are buddies...or...were.

Jeff Darlington @JeffDarlington  ·  1h 1 hour ago
Wells on the text exchanges: “That is not circumstantial evidence. That is two participants in the scheme discussing what is taking place."

Add in the fact Brady wouldn't release his phone and texts and you've got all you need. In fact he should have been suspended 4 games just for not cooperating in an investigation IMO.

If it wasn't an issue there wouldn't be a rule and Brady certianly wouldn't have gone to the lengths he did to make it happen.  Obviously they knew the rules or they wouldn't have had to steal the balls to let the air out and Brady wouldn't have had to pay them for doing so.

Jeff Darlington @JeffDarlington  ·  2h 2 hours ago
Ted Wells: "The Patriots were all over me from Day One about why the NFL did not warn them.” …That’s why he addressed sting allegations.

This is hilarious to me and almsot surreal. I'm breaking the law but it's not my fault because no one warned me the police were coming. How can anyone say that with a straight face?

I see people saying the do drugs every day yet I only know a few people who were caught with drugs and then arrested. Funny how the "caught" thing comes into play. I'd imagine that would be the same thing here but that's just me. I mean ... plenty of people said they did they used the same "bullying tactics" Miami did but only Miami was punished.


It really seems to me that you have been blinded by this Maine. Not sure why but it seems like you have started to become a Patriots apologist in the last few years.

I've noticed this as well. The first few times I thought it was a Devil's advocate thing, now I'm not sure at all where it comes from.

The very idea of this being a "sting" is absurd.

A "sting" would be if one of the two equipment managers was actually an NFL employee and facilitated the deflation.  Failing to warn you about careful enforcement of the rules after you are suspected of breaking them is not a "sting."

I don't think Maine has become a secret Pats apologist.  I think he lives in New England and is starting to be convinced by the excuses he hears everyone up there making for the Pats.

So an open apologist?  ;D

Maine...say it ain't so!  SMH for defending those dirty cheaters.

I'd argue that the edict was issued when the NFL released a "rule book".

You don't need a reminder or a warning from police reminding you not to rob liquor stores.  Rules are rules, and should be treated as such.

If God didn't want mankind to rob liquor stores, He wouldn't have made beer nuts so damned expensive...

You got to be kidding me? That is embarrassing what you just wrote!

I actually agree with Maine

You live in New England just like Maine. Funny how both are defending them.

I am probably the biggest Patriot hater on this board.

But this is making a big deal over nothing.

This is like sentencing somebody to prison and a four figure fine for jaywalking.   

Or to expand Stroke's comment, like giving somebody twenty years and a 7 figure fine for robbing a liquor store.             

You can say that it's excessively harsh, but are you arguing that it is inconsistent with prior punishment?

Again, Sean Payton got a year suspension for something he wasn't even directly involved in, just because he should have known about it and should have stopped it.  Brady was clearly aware of this, clearly involved in this, and tried to cover it up.

Targeting players for injury is a lot more severe than deflating footballs

Tampering with footballs is at least as severe as PEDs (and has a very similar impact).  The penalty for first-time offenders of the PED policy is... a 4-game suspension.  If multiple other employees of the organization had conspired to provide PEDs to a player and were caught doing so, what do you think the punishment for the organization would be?

I am open to debate, Spider.

But I would like to ask, is there any scientific basis to your first statement?

The purpose behind taking PEDs is to gain an illicit advantage in the competition.
The purpose behind tampering with the equipment is... to gain an illicit advantage in the competition.

No, it's like getting arrested for jaywalking and then lying on the stand and getting sentenced to prison for contempt of court.

You fail to understand that the severity of the punishment is for the cover-up, not just the act.

+1.

Most everyone is missing that but it has been my point for a while. The advantage or non advantage of deflation is no point in the discussion, the act is part of the discussion, the cover-up is the meat of the discussion when talking about the penalties.

I respect Tom Brady as being one of the best, if not the best, QB's in the NFL.  However, his smugness following the Ravens game were he told them they should read the rule book.  And his smugness prior to the Super Bowl were he LIED about deflating the footballs.  Followed by Kraft's Tom Hagen impersonation demanding that the NFL owed them an apology; makes me wish they suspended Brady for a year.  Brady, his agent, and the Pat's whole organization needs to stop whining and take their medicine.

Top 5?  Maybe.  I would take Rodgers, Manning, Brees, Luck, hell even Russell Wilson before Tom Tom.

IMO, the NFL is responsible for 2 things:

- Protecting the safety of its players
- Protecting itself by ensuring the game is played with integrity and fairness

The Patriots have been skirting the "rules" for years.  Now they are lying about it to try not to get caught - AGAIN.  

So, tell me again how this is "not that big of a deal" when you clearly REPEATEDLY undermine the integrity of the league and then lie about it.

This is another discussion, but if you take Wilson before Brady, you need your head examined.

LOL okay MikeO, thanks for the passive aggressive insult.

You're right though, this is for another discussion, so let's get back to Brady being a dirty lying cheater...

^^^ That wasn't MikeO and I agree with the statement.

Anyone who takes Wilson over Brady or think Wilson is better than Brady today is nuts! (since my name came up I figured I should chime in)

No insult meant.  Much love, Tenshot.

But I do think you're nuttier than a squirrel turd.  I'll start a new thread.  :)

This just in.  The Patriots have signed undrafted Dom Grady out of Western Michigan to play QB in weeks 1-4 during Tom Brady's suspension. 


(https://fbexternal-a.akamaihd.net/safe_image.php?d=AQB9wQibHuVpXZ1X&w=487&h=255&url=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F9hakMZm.jpg%3Ffb&cfs=1&upscale=1&sx=0&sy=9&sw=1106&sh=579)

http://imgur.com/9hakMZm

Yes, but are they to the same extent?

mod edit: fixed quoteblock

It is interesting that so many QB's have come out about this...oh wait they have remained silent on the issue about doctoring balls.

These ball boys the Patriots are defending they did already fire. Kind of funny they are defending them on one hand saying they are innocent but fired them on the other hand. If they were innocent why did they fire them?

Goodell will over see the appeal. I wonder if he is blatantly going to appease his buddy Kraft and the Patriots.

If he does there will be a national uproar.  Pats have no leverage. The Pats don't want this in court. They don't want Brady or the 2 ball boys under oath, that opens up a can of worms they aren't prepared for. If he up holds the suspension, Pats will do nothing. If he overturns the suspension then Goodell looks like he has no control of this league and all of the attention turns towards him.

Rumor going around the owners meeting is a back-room deal was cut. Kraft won't appeal. Brady gets NO games or 2 games at most.

Don't be shocked to see Brady under center Week 1 vs Pitt.

Yeah, the whole thing stinks, but at most it's down to 2 games. Too much of an uproar over just the organization getting punished and Brady walks away.

I know not the same case, but Greg Hardy just had his suspension reduced from 10 games to 4

Gotta figure we will get some Brady news soon

I think that this is already decided and Kraft and Goodell made an agreement.  It'll be 1 or 2 games and done.

Hardy's girlfriend or whoever no showed her court appearance so the charges were dropped, that was huge in dropping the suspension. Plus, Goodell didn't personally oversee it.

I'm starting to think the ban stays at 4 games and only gets dropped down to 3 if at all.

NFL showed some guts and upheld the suspension. Brady to miss the first 4 games!!!

Report is Brady instructed his assistant to destroy his cell phone the day this all began with the investigation

Screw Tom Brady. Expand his suspension to six games if he doesn't shut up.

Sad truth is, he will almost surely appeal it and hope the courts file an injunction, allowing him to play while this gets sorted out. That could take years and by then he is already retired.

The fact that he destroyed his cellphone the day of the Ted Wells hearing and didn't tell the NFL until 4 months later gives them a chance. Because holy shit are those the actions of a guilty man.

Tampering with evidence of a league investigation....that's low!! Shows he cheated. He lied. And that possibly who knows what else is on that phone (other cheating tactics he was texting about?!) he is trying to hide.

And Robert Kraft better STFU about all of this. No more press conferences from him crying and whining. He cheated. He got caught. Take the medicine and just go away for a while.  Be lucky they didn't strip them of their super bowl championship last year.

Not only did he destroy his cell phone, he lied about the practice of destroying his cellphone. Tom Brady destroyed the one he used during the AFC Championship and for weeks afterward. His excuse is it is common practice for him to do so. If that is Brady's common practice, how did he make available his previous phone that he used from spring to November 2014?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/theres-hole-tom-bradys-excuse-200246103.html

Why would he destroy his phone to protect himself? If they made him supply his phone records it would show all of his texts. If he didn't provide them the information they requested I'd hope they would suspend him for a year and then until he released them. There is no question they have probable cause and the only way for him, the employee, to prove he was right is to furnish it.

The problem with that is the court is not inclined to wait till after the season to settle this. If he files an injunction and the courts uphold the suspension by December he could be looking at missing the LAST 4 games of the season. Brady's lawyers might be confident about him winning in the courts, but I'm not and if he does take this all the way to the courts, then you can bet a lot more shit is gonna be dug up on Brady. We are going to be hearing about all kinds of shit that Brady has done in the NFL and it ain't all gonna be pretty. Brady is losing this battle. It's time for him to shut up and take his punishment, it's only going to get worse for him in the public eye if he doesn't.

If Brady appeals this and it goes to a jury trial he will get an injunction. Meaning he will play the entire 2015 season. And at Brady's age he could retire after this year and never face a suspension really or at worst face the suspension in 2016. The only downside for Brady to do this is it would cost him more than $10 mill and possibly much much more and closer to $20 mill in lawyers and investigators to fight this and fight the league for an entire year. I know he is rich beyond belief but does he want to give up that kind of money?! Knowing he probably can't win this anyway and he will face a suspension.

There would be no trial during the season as these types of trials take months to get a court date, so Brady wouldn't miss any games this year or in the middle or the year or end of the year. The league and the NFLPA wouldn't want an in-season trial as they are just too busy so both sides would petition the court to have the trial in the offseason.

Agreed, but it's too soon to know if it will go to trial.

That and losing the respect of most people outside of New England.

There is no guarantee that Brady is entitled to a trial. Read the following. It's quite possible the courts could simply refuse to try the case and if that happens Brady is back on the hook for the suspension and that very well could occur before the end of the year.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13332578/undefined

NFL Network and ESPN has all but confirmed that with their legal analysts and such it won't be an in-season suspension taking place outside of the first 4 weeks. It will be a 4 game suspension to start a year (this year or next.) Other players have fought suspensions and had them pushed off till the following year to open the season. None have sprung up mid-season

Even if you're right, barring some kind of injury or something you really think Brady is just gonna quit after 2015? A 4 game suspension to start the 2016 season is not a win for Tom Brady or the Patriots and the one thing better for the Dolphins than a 4 game suspension for Brady to start 2015 is his retirement after 2015.

To get an injunction, he has to prove to the judge that he can win this case. He can't. He has to challenge the process of how the suspension went down, not the facts themselves. He is screwed with the facts.

A boatload of reports are coming out on this.  Tom Brady is threatening to sue the league.  The league has already filed suit in Manhattan to uphold the suspension.  And there was a leak from a source in the NFL offices that Goodell would've reduced the suspension to two games if Brady had admitted to what he was doing.

I think it's time for Goodell to show he's got the backbone to clean this league up the whole way.  If they can make teams vacate wins in college, they should be able to in the NFL as well.  Strip the Patriots of their Super Bowl, and reopen the Spygate investigation. 

I didn't say he was going to quit. There is speculation at this age he could retire after this year. He isn't that young. He is at that age where he could retire any time now, he is gonna be 38 next week. Most guys don't play to 39 and 40 in the NFL

I really don't see a scenario happening where he serves the suspension. Isn't the appeal being done by the players union? If so ... wouldn't they foot the bill?


Edited to add ...

Brady also confirmed that he will be taking the case to federal court with the help of the NFL Player's Union
He said he did not want his 'unfair discipline' to set a precedent for other players in the league

So Brady is going out on a limb to help other players? What a super guy he is!!

^^Problem is if Brady takes this to federal court he will have to testify under oath. He will have to answer a lot of questions, be crossed examined in public and be on the record. And remember...this is the guy who just recently  was willing to take  a 1 game suspension as long as the NFL sealed the files to this whole case. The NFL said no to sealing the files.

So to go from wanting everything sealed to then going to sitting on a witness stand on the record and opening yourself up to being crossed examined....that is a huge leap. I don't see that happening.

I'm not sure but since this is not a criminal investigation I don't think the NFL can simply ask the service provider to give up the records. I assume Brady would have to get them and then turn them over. How much alteration could have been done during that process?

I'm no expert so I may be wrong.

That is true. Brady would have to voluntarily give them the records.  I just think if (employee)Brady refuses to turn over the phone he used for work(texting the equipment managers) that they (NFL) has every right to impose a punishment. I work for the government and my phone records actually becomes public record the moment I use it for anything work related. 

Robert Kraft is running his mouth this morning. Another guy who doesn't know how or when to shut up. He is now saying he wishes he took legal action against the league in May and regrets accepting the punishment/fine. And Kraft said he was wrong to put his faith in the league.

This clown thinks he is totally above the rules and law. That his team should never be punished for anything. They have gotten away with so much for so long they live in a bubble and think they can do what they want.

If this goes to court then the ballboys will be forced to testify under oath, if I were them I wouldn't want to perjure myself over this; so the real truth would come out.

The ballboys handed over their phones to the league. Brady didn't. I would think Brady is the one who doesn't want to testify.

I can almost understand Kraft still running his mouth as a way of "protecting his guy".  But Brady has some king sized balls to be busted and to be so obviously guilty and rather than just accepting it and moving on, he is acting supremely defiant about it.  Although I guess it is common in society today for the bad guy to be the "victim" so maybe it isn't all that surprising after all. 

I don't give a crap about the phones, my point is that the ballboys will be asked if anyone instructed them to deflate the balls.  They could have lied to Wells and it doesn't mean anything, but lying in a court of law is quite a bit different.

They didn't lie, they handed over their phones and the proof was on the phones. It's in black and white,  they just handed over the phones and it showed the texts from Brady and what he said. The ballboys have nothing to worry about.

There is almost no way Brady DOESN'T serve the 4 games. He has nothing going for him in his appeal, and this is basically because he destroyed his phone and there is evidence that he lied when he said he always does that because he produced an old phone.

He has no master plan, the NFL for once played this beautifully, especially asking the District Court in NY to verify the suspension to try and move jurisdiction. Brady and the Pats have no plan, he is just arrogant because he has gotten away with cheating on AND off the field before and thinks he can't be taken down.

One day Brady is asking the NFL to keep all documents regarding this matter sealed (which they laughed in his face about and denied) and the next day he wants this in court where he is on a witness stand. Either he has the worst advisers of all time  or he has taken one too many hits to the head!

Robert Kraft press conference sponsored by #flexball. Thought it was funny.

Minnesota court where Brady and the Union filed there case acted fast giving the case to to NYC and in the hands of the court where the NFL filed it's lawsuit.  The "First-Filed" rule took effect and the Minnesota court didn't hold back.

"Indeed, the Court sees little reason for this action to have been commenced in Minnesota at all," Judge Kyle wrote. "Brady plays for a team in Massachusetts; the Union is headquartered in Washington, D.C.; the NFL is headquartered in New York; the arbitration proceedings took place in New York; and the award was issued in New York."

Huge blow to Brady with this ruling.

^^^ Translation: Fuck you, clean up your own mess.

Once again I don't give a crap about the phones.  Do you think the only way that players, coaches, or management communicated with the ballboys was through text messaging???

You might not care but the league does and the court will since that is the evidence in this matter.  ::)

This isn't a "he said-she said" because there is evidence and its the cell phones and those text messages. One side (the ball boys) provided there phones to the league as evidence when they were asked about the text messages. And those text messages show Brady to be guilty. The other side, Brady, didn't provide the phone and if he didn't want to give up the physical phone, he could have had the texts printed out and the transcripts presented, he failed to do that as well. Then he lied about it for months. He destroyed the phone March 6th (just happens to be the day he had a meeting with Ted Wells and the NFL Investigation) but didn't tell the league that info till June. If you don't see that this is the central issue here, well then you are lost and confused on the issue.

I heard a good argument on the matter of Brady destroying his phone, and I kind of agree with it.

Remember during the Ted Wells investigation of Incognito/Dolphins?  Remember how photos from Richie's phone "leaked" of Martin grabbing strippers' asses in the club?  Remember how the entire text message chain was "released" to the public?

Maybe Brady had some private stuff on his phone he didn't want released.  Maybe he had dong shots which he sent to Giselle, or some other incriminating evidence.  Maybe there was a Tom Brady sexy time video on the phone.  Maybe he didn't want everyone to know how much kiddie porn he was watching.  Maybe TMZ was knocking on someone's door waiting to get some of that dirt.  If I'm Tom Brady, I agree, burn that phone.  There's too many leaks in a process like this - too many underlings with access to this information who could use a million bucks from an outlet like TMZ.

So, I don't necessarily have a problem with Brady destroying the phone, as long as he knows that it makes him look guilty as hell.

Brady can destroy his phone if he wants, but to lie and say it is common practice while offering up an earlier phone which was never destroyed kills his argument.

I don't like this argument. Everything you mention as being "leaked" was part of the investigation which everyone knew was going public. We saw nothing from Incognito's phone that was not related to the investigation.

Brady had his assistant destroy his phone March 6th the day he was to meet with Ted Wells (not a coincidence he destroyed it that day)....he didn't tell Wells that day he destroyed it during the meeting when Wells asked him about the phone. He didn't tell anyone until June that he destroyed it back in March. That is where he looks guilty. He led Wells and the NFL on with the fact he still had the phone when he knew he didn't!

That phone was his defense against the ball boys who provided the texts to Wells and the NFL. Brady's phone would have "confirmed" their story and the texts they provided or it would have shot there story down. Clearly...it confirms it and he destroyed the phone for a reason on the morning he was meeting with Wells and the league.

 Brady cheated. He got caught. He then lied. It's just that simple. Anyone still trying to defend him and spin this to his defense is just lost. Brady is no different than ARod, Bonds, Armstrong, Palmerio, Sosa and the others who got caught "cheating" in sports. Get caught....then lie about it. The mountain of evidence against Brady is just too much to give him the benefit of the doubt.

^^ How do you know he didn't destroy it after he met with Wells.

Wells: where's your phone, Tom?
Brady: I don't have to give you my phone
Wells: Well, it sure would help the investigation
Brady: F off, I'm not giving you shit

Later that day:
Brady: Hey, Aaron, remember me, its your friend, Tom
Aaron Hernandez: What's up Tom?
Brady: I hear you're an expert at destroying phones...
Aaron: yeah man, just hit that shit with a hammer, you'll be fine...
Brady: Gotcha, later bro.

You forgot Roger Clemons on your list.  I know you were just making a point, but I really don't like him and should be on any "cheater" list.

Also, Brady is a dirty, rotten, lying cheater.

Brady and his "team of people" told the NFL when the phone was destroyed the morning of March 6th before his meeting with Wells.  He is playing the "dumb" card that he didn't know Wells would want his phone. Anyone with an IQ over 2 knows Brady was "tipped off" that his phone was going to be an issue that morning during the interview so he destroyed the evidence before the interview.

No they didn't. The NFL didn't know the phone was destroyed until Brady's appeal.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/07/28/nfl-upholds-tom-brady-four-game-suspension/fhOdVIaay3E0lPOIyt4A1J/story.html

Wells had developed potentially damaging evidence of tampering from the cellphones of Patriots football ball attendants Jim McNally and John Jastremski, and he began asking for Brady’s phone records more than two weeks before he interviewed the quarterback March 6. Wells did so again during the session.

At no time during that period did Brady disclose that his cellphone had been destroyed, according to Goodell. He said records show Brady stopped using the phone no earlier than March 5 and no later than March 6, the day of the interview.

What’s more, Brady did not inform the NFL that he had the phone destroyed until June 18 and did not confirm it until his 10-hour appeal hearing June 23 at NFL headquarters in New York, Goodell stated.

Why do you quote me if you aren't going to answer a simple question I ask in the quote; and go on to regurgitate the same statements over and over again??  The points you are trying to make have nothing to do with what I was posting about; I find this is a common occurrence in your posts.

You keep saying you don't care about text messaging when those texts is what the whole case is about at this point. The evidence he tampered with and destroyed. If you don't care about the central issue of the case as of today, then I don't know what to tell ya. Your question is silly and makes zero sense.

If Brady didn't destroy his phone and just provided the transcripts of his texts with the 2 ball boys he would be looking at a 1 or 2 game suspension and this would be over with. He didn't. He destroyed the phone. He lied to the league. He mislead the investigators. He is defiant and the case now is less about the balls being deflated and tampered with for that game and its all about him not working with the league and trying to hide evidence and lying to them.

You don't understand the case clearly and what's going on. Your questions make no sense that's why I am not answering them

You take the time to write two paragraphs three times saying the same thing but can't answer a simple question because it's "silly".  Here's another silly question: Do you know what the definition of insanity is??

Short of MikeO & Masterfins back and forth, I removed the personal attacks. Let's stay on topic. We have a trending topic here that is still playing out. Let's not be forced to lock the conversation.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/04/at-hearing-brady-tiptoes-around-preference-for-12-5-psi/

Brady is such a liar. Transcripts of his appeal came out. He said to the league in his appeal....."Ball pressure has been so inconsequential, I hadn’t even thought about that,". Um, he helped get the rule changed in the NFL along with Peyton!!! Plus there are radio interviews where Brady talks about like the ball deflated going back to 2011.

Then he gets caught lying by his own lawyer.. On cross, Brady reiterates several times he doesn't remember what he talked about w/Jestremski. On redirect, says no discussion of deflation

Seriously if they take away any games at this point it's a joke. He is such a liar. I'm shocked a judge is going to even entertain this honestly.

What makes you think a judge will?

My guess is the NFL and Brady will settle this dispute before or just after August 12th with Brady taking a 2 game suspension and both sides dropping the case. That's the best possible outcome right now and everyone knows it. If this goes to court Brady will lose, but the NFL does not want to battle this in the courts, they want this to go away badly but there was no way they were gonna just lower the suspension to 2 games with Brady threatening to take it to court anyway. They kept the 4 game suspension knowing then they could use a softer suspension of 2 games as a compromise to avoid the courts. This way everyone saves face that they fought it as far as they could, but it's time to move onto football and they reached a fair agreement.

Brady's camp has already said that he is not interested in any compromise that has a suspension, even for 1 game.  This came up during the Goodell appeal.

They kept mention in the news today that Brady said "under oath" that he had nothing to do with deflating the balls.  When the NFL was investigating this it wasn't a criminal or civil legal case, so just what consequences would Brady have faced if he lied "under oath"?

NFL is in the driver's seat and it would take a lot for this to be overturned, so I don't see the league compromising now. They would look weak and for no reason. Brady at this point won't even take a 2 game ban and Kraft has been running his mouth too much.

Odds are very high that Brady misses the first 4 games.

I don't get what Brady's side with the union is doing. One week Brady wants the entire case to be sealed and not leaked to the press. The next week the Union is releasing the entire transcript to the media. Seems like the Brady/Union side is scrambling big-time and has no set plant to fight this. That transcript they released makes Brady look bad. Sure the NFL looks bad too in some parts, but the NFL didn't break the rules, Brady did and Brady looks bad in almost that entire transcript.

To me if Brady would have just came clean from day 1, he probably would have gotten off with a fine and no suspension. Right now this is less about deflated footballs and more about lying to the league and how he hampered the league investigation.

If I understand correctly, you guys are arguing the wrong thing.  Brady is challenging the NFL's procedure...not their findings.  So, even if Brady wins or loses, it won't re-open the wound.  It's just him saying that the NFL didn't go about things in the fair and proper manner.  He's not looking to dig up the content of the investigation, just to lack of due process.

I've said this since the start of the process.

^^^ Actually he's challenging both.  He has been adamant that he knew nothing about it, and did not participate in any deflation, so it follows that he would be challenging their findings since the NFL doesn't believe him.  As for the way Goodell the dictator rules on these things I would agree with Brady, BUT it's the NFLPA that gave Goodell the power when negotiating for more money.

Agreed, it's the battle of the HUGE ego's - Brady - Kraft - Goodell.

In general, courts are reluctant to overrule arbitrators or even hear their cases because an arbitrator is supposed to be the agreed upon final word between two parties. If the arbitrator's ruling was consistently challenged in courts, the whole system would be flooded with these cases.

Is he free to play while this is being heard in the courts?

No, as of right now he is suspended and can't play. He can try for an injunction while this is going on but there is virtually no chance of that happening. So, he is hoping for a speedy trial. I don't know if that is likely and I really don't know what would happen if he misses 4 games and then wins the appeal somehow.

I think it will be heard before the season to prevent an issue like that from coming up.

Sorry but Brady isn't going to going to get anything handed down to him. the choice will be to let Brady go now or drag it out until he retires. The NFL system is really bad.

The Daily Mail is a tabloid. If these talks were closed door, then how did the details get out unless someone leaked it to make themselves look good?

Huh? They weren't closed doors ... it is a federal courtroom. I guess you've been in hiding for the last 24 hours and haven't seen the infamous Brady courtroom drawing?
(https://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/bradysketch.jpg?w=360)

Must have been a bad day, he looks deflated in that picture.

Thought it said closed doors somewhere in the article.

That is an amazing drawing, almost as great as that Jesus airbrush from 5 years ago.

It was public but he did meet privately with both sides before and afterwards. Many news agencies reported conversations during the proceedings.

From ESPN ...

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NEW YORK -- A federal judge put the NFL and the players' union on the defensive Wednesday during a hearing over Tom Brady's four-game suspension, demanding to know what evidence directly linked the New England Patriots quarterback to deflating footballs and asking why they would have been deflated without Brady's knowledge.

Judge Richard M. Berman in Manhattan repeatedly asked NFL lawyer Daniel L. Nash for "direct evidence that implicates Mr. Brady" as he gave both sides a chance to state their case in the first hearing before him while at times belittling the drama of the controversy.

Nash responded there was "considerable evidence Mr. Brady clearly knew about this," including records of text messages and phone calls between the quarterback and one of two Patriots employees implicated in the scandal known as "Deflategate." But he also said there was no "smoking gun" showing Brady had direct knowledge that the balls were deflated for the first half of the Patriots' 45-7 defeat of the Indianapolis Colts in the Jan. 18 AFC championship.

The NFL should be able to suspend anyone in the league for wearing a purple shirt, if they wanted to.  Its their league.  Of course this would get ridiculous, especially for the Vikings.  But, what does the federal court have to say over the NFL enforcing their own discipline in a league matter?  It just doesn't seem like the court should have any authority over the league's rule enforcement.

If Brady doesn't like the way the league enforces their own rules, and subsequently disciplines for them, then no one is forcing him to play in this league.

You would think wouldn't you? Lawyers and agreements won't ever allow that to happen.

NFLPA and Brady have caved! They are willing to accept a reduced suspension for Brady only if it states its because he was unwilling to cooperate with the investigation. No admission of having deflated footballs.

Adam Schefter reporting this this morning. Court is about to start up 

This was in the news yesterday. The NFL has been adamant that Brady capitulate entirely during all negotiations. I don't like the idea of reducing the suspension though. I've felt all along Brady's cover up is worse than any actions carried out by the equipment staff.

After what the judge said to the NFL today, concerning their lack of fairness in the arbitration, and the penalty itself, it seems as if there is less pressure for Brady to cave at all.

also came out today that if this isn't resolved by Sep 4th then Brady starts his suspension on Sep 5th. I have a feeling this might drag out a while

The media is making it sound like Brady is very likely to walk with no penalty at all. This would open up a huge can of worms for arbitrators rulings that the court system will never be able to handle.

The sports media is clueless about this. They don't know anything more than the average fan.

Sounds like the judge KNOWS he has to side with the NFL because of the CBA but is trying to shame the NFL into making a deal with the NFLPA/Brady to reduce the sentence so he doesn't have to give a judgment because the NFL's case is kinda weak in some areas. That's how I am seeing this

I hope so, because not only should Brady be suspended for cheating, but by disregarding an arbitrators ruling, you essentially make them all worthless and open to appeals within the court system. I know that may not sound like a lot, but it's a huge frigging deal. It's essentially the end of the arbitration process because the losing side will always appeal the ruling and it could be tied up in court for months or years.

I know the NFL case is weak and really relies "Oh come on, OF COURSE he cheated" evidence, but both sides agreed to this and once again fuck Tom Brady.

He doesn't have to side with the NFL he merely has to say that he will not overrule the decision because it was already ruled on and that power had already been given to the NFL because of the CBA. He's not siding with the NFL, merely following the law.

That's a nice play on words lawyer speak, but if that is his judgement/decision...he's siding with the NFL at the end of the day

The way I look at it, "siding with the NFL" is a play on words. A no decision favors the NFL, but it's not technically siding with the NFL. The courts try to stay out of the arbitration process rather than "side" with either side. He could say that he doesn't even agree with the decision to suspend Brady but that he's upholding it anyway because there's not sufficient evidence that the NFL did anything wrong in making that decision. That's not siding with the NFL.

My definition of "siding with the NFL" would be if this goes to trial and they uphold the suspension. Don't forget that the NFL filed this lawsuit asking for the judge to approve their decision to suspend Brady. Not really sure how a "no" decision would be "siding" with the NFL.

I agree with Pappy.  There is a difference between the court saying "We have evaluated both sides and we agree with the NFL's decision," and "We decline to intervene in the NFL's decision-making process."

Either way the NFL wins and gets what it wants...so its a play on words and how ya want to spin it. End of the day Brady sits for 4 games

The term is semantics. However that type of judgment would not be semantics. It would be a court following previous jurisprudence and deciding to not intervene in the arbitrator's area. That is not a validation of what the NFL did.

If Brady is out 4 games and the judge keeps that FOR WHATEVER REASON, the NFL lawyers and league officials will go back to the office order a big lunch and pop the champagne cause they got what they wanted at the end of the day. That's reality

The outcome does not mean the process is irrelevant.

If you get arrested, are put in jail, go to trial and are convicted, you remain in jail.  That's not "the same thing" as if you are arrested, put in jail, and never get a trial in the first place.

Brady won. No Suspension. Word just came down

Well that sucks.

The NFL has no power over it's employees.

NFL is filing an appeal and this will drag on. Could go into 2016 season. Judge ruling overturned the suspension because of the NFL's process, didn't say the NFL was wrong. NFL can re-do the whole process and then the 4 game suspension can be instituted. 4 game suspension looks to be fine, just the way they went about it and probably won't happen till 2016.

Pretty much. Basically, this would be like the Police mishandling evidence and screwing up on paperwork. The guy isn't innocent, but the process was all screwed up.

Unfortunately, this Judge was right. The NFL's process for suspensions is a complete joke and lawless. Brady is guilty as hell, but they have no rhyme or reason when it comes to suspensions and fines. They need a huge overhaul for how they do things. Basically, someone that Goodell answers to for when he does these things.

Mishandling evidence is a bad analogy.  Here is a better one.

You get into a cab and tell the cab driver you need to get to the airport in a hurry because your plane is leaving soon.  You neither tell him to violate traffic laws nor specifically tell him to follow them.  The penalty for speeding/running a red light/reckless driving is a fine not jail.

The cab driver allegedly speeds and runs various red light for your benefit of getting to the airport.   You say nothing to the driver about his driving, nor do you call 911 to report his reckless driving.

You are sentenced to jail time for being generally aware that the cab driver was violating traffic laws.

You appeal that sentence and you admit to telling the driver you were in a hurry, but deny knowing that he violated any traffic laws, claiming you were on your phone checking your email.

Your conviction and sentence is overturned on four grounds:

(1) Being "generally aware" someone else is committing a crime and not reporting it is not a crime in itself.

(2) The max sentence for the underlying behavior is a fine not jail.

(3) The fact that the alleged  behavior benefited you is not sufficient evidence to determine you were generally aware of it.

(4) The only evidence that the driver drove reckless was that you didn't miss your flight, nobody actually saw the driver violate any traffic laws. 

You completely missed the pieces of evidence where the driver is on the phone discussing how you are complaining about not getting there fast enough still (the staff cussing Brady for complaining about the balls) and how you destroyed your phone to keep anyone from checking it to see if you were actually on it.

That might hurt you with (3) and (4) does nothing to overcome (1) and (2). And you only need to win on one of those four, not all four. The ruling starts by saying, basically even if everything the NFL claims is true the CBA doesn't allow you to punish him and ends with, we question what the NFL claims isn't tainted, but we really don't need to determine that. 

"Generally" that's a fair assessment.  This is a loss for Goodell, not the NFL, which I think is a good thing because Goodell acts like a tyrant.  The penalties that Kraft accepted were plenty considering the infractions involved.  Not to mention in the next time the Union & NFL bargain over salaries, etc., the NFL will have a bargaining chip to try and keep salaries down.  Not to mention everyone knows that Brady is lying about not knowing the balls were being deflated, so this will follow him forever.

I think the net result of this is a loss of power for the NFL and Goodell.  You have a judge in Minn that said the NFL completely ignores the CBA and one in the home district of the NFL coming pretty close. 

Next CBA the commish will not be the arbitrator on appeals, decent chance he has heard his last appeal and will grant future request to be recused (not that would have changed the key point in this ruling, lack of notice that what is being alleged would result in punishment)

As for what Brady knew and what happened.  Here is what is certain:  Brady wanted the balls to be inflated with as little air as possible.  That if the NEP balls started the game a the lowest legal point and the Colts balls started the game at the highest legal point, it is entirely plausible that at half time NE balls would be underinflated and the Colts wouldn't be.  The texts could be explained by Brady's instance that the equipment managers get the balls to exactly the lowest legal level.  But it is also possible that Brady wanted them to go further than that. 

Big loss for NFL and Goodell, huge win the NFLPA. 

What will happen within a month or so. Goodell will run the business side of the NFL. Troy Vincent (most likely him could be someone else) will rule on all suspensions and the on the field matters. The commissioner job will be split up. Vincent being an ex-player will be acceptable to the NFLPA (even though he had a hand in the Brady mess it is a good compromise to get through this current CBA)

When this CBA expires (end of this decade I believe) you will see a lockout and a huge fight. Will be much nastier than the last lockout

NFL will win something back on appeal. Brady will end up serving some sort of suspension. Won't be this season but might be a game or two next year to open the year.

When was the last time the commissioner of the NFL refused to attend the season opener and congratulate last years superbowl winning team?

 

The penalties for resisting arrest, obstruction of justice, and contempt of court can be much more severe than the penalty for whatever crime you were resisting or obstructing.

Brady didn't get a 4-game suspension just for being aware; his obstruction of the investigation was a significant factor.  Furthermore, you said that "no one saw a crime being committed," but the NE equipment manager is on tape bringing the balls into the bathroom before taking them to the field, which is a violation of the rules.

And? You need evidence that Brady directed him to lower the pressure below the legal limit. That evidence does not exist. Also the NFL refused to make evidence available to the defense, and refused to present one of the investigators. The NFL screwed up and the judge nailed them.

Completely irrelevant side question.... has anybody had a FF draft yet?

If so was Brady drafted?  In what round?  I bet anybody who got him in a late round must be feeling pretty good right now. 

He didn't go past Round 4 in my 2 drafts

wow, b4 this ruling I would not have drafted him that high and I am a nep fan

This is just gonna make it that much sweeter when Miami wins the AFCE!

Didn't surprise me

The main issue was the severity

even if you do everything to cover up that you jaywalked, you shouldn't go to prison for it.

Hopefully, the fines and lost picks stay.

http://pagesix.com/2015/09/06/robert-kraft-deflategate-judge-chat-at-hamptons-media-party/?_ga=1.160325309.1838434101.1420091746

And Robert Kraft just happened to be at a Party this weekend in the Hamptons with the judge who lifted Brady's suspension. Boy, funny how that happened

My theory is that it's a conspiracy.

In the 1919 White Sox trial, the players and jury celebrated together after the verdict

I am schocked that the owner of the Giants just happened to be at the same party with several hundred people as this judge it is not possible that could be coincidence...

Believe what you want, the majority of Americans won't believe it is a coincidence

The party is a non-issue.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/08/report-patriots-spygate-cheating-was-widespread-over-many-years/

Looks like "SPYGATE" went on for 7 years. More info coming out about that now.

Bwahahahaha ... it's not like anyone thought it was a one and done thing other than Patriot fans who just refused to acknowledge anything was ever done illegally. Goodell is going to go down pretty soon just because the NFL needs a scapegoat. With the inmates continuing to run the asylum the NFL will eventually take a big hit.

Actually I never spent a whole lot of time speculating if New England did something in 2001 that was not a rule until 2006.

But this report does confirm that Godell wasn't interest in truth with Deflategate just a harsh punishment regardless of the truth. 

Unless I am mistaken, it was already a rule. In 2006 a memo was sent to all the teams emphasizing the rule, but it wasn't just created then.

Rule was 2006, in 2007 a memo was sent emphasizing the rule. 

Make all the excuses you want, they will always be dirty, REPEAT cheaters to everyone not in New England.

Former Patriots coaches and employees are now speaking. Spilling the beans.

-In fact, many former New England coaches and employees insist that the taping of signals wasn't even the most effective cheating method the Patriots deployed in that era. Several of them acknowledge that during pregame warm-ups, a low-level Patriots employee would sneak into the visiting locker room and steal the play sheet, listing the first 20 or so scripted calls for the opposing team's offense.

-Numerous former employees say the Patriots would have someone rummage through the visiting team hotel for playbooks or scouting reports.

-That the taping of opposing signals “got out of control,” according to one former Patriots assistant. But it also was just the tip of the iceberg in the Patriots’ bag of dirty tricks, according to ESPN’s Seth Wickersham and Don Van Natta At Gillette Stadium, the scrambling and jamming of the opponents’ coach-to-quarterback radio line — “small s—” that many teams do, according to a former Pats assistant coach — occurred so often that one team asked a league official to sit in the coaches’ box during the game and wait for it to happen. Sure enough, on a key third down, the headset went out.

-"[A backup quarterback named John] Friesz was told that the Patriots had a tape of the Bucs' signals. He was instructed to memorize them, and during the game, to watch Bucs defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin and tell [offensive coordinator Charlie] Weis the defensive play, which Weis would relay over the radio headset system to quarterback Drew Bledsoe."  Although the Patriots lost that game, they realized a "schematic" edge over other teams. They "streamlined the system," finding a more efficient way to note the plays and relay the information, cutting out the quarterbacks, with only a few people, including Belichick.


ESPN has done wall to wall coverage of this all day. This is there "Watergate" right now...lol. All joking aside if enough people step forward and talk about this and expose the Pats at what point do the other NFL owners step up and take action against Kraft. Either ban him from day to day management for a few years (ala like Steinbrenner was in MLB back in 1990 till 1993) or just maybe take the team away from him as it lacks institutional control  NBA took away the Clippers from the Sterling for far less than this.)

Let's see.....

Deflategate is overblown with ESPN running multiple reports that turnout to be false and just a smear campaign of leaks from the NFL.

NFL loses and embarrassing court case when the fact don't live up to the false reports.

ESPN runs a story in which the information could have only come from one place...the NFL that smears NE. 

 

Incorrect. The memo was September 2006. The Patriots scandal was 2007.

This seems to imply it was already illegal.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/199345-the-truth-about-spygate-punishing-success-and-promoting-parity

(See: “Patriots Spygate Story May Have More Episodes” by Mark Gaughan, The Buffalo News, February 10, 2008. Note that the article contains erroneous information about the Patriots admitting to taping only since 2006, and the NFL punishing them for taping only during that time frame.

In fact, the Patriots had admitted to taping since 2000, and Goodell punished them for that whole period. Gaughan got the Bills/Cowboys information from former Bills quarterback Jim Kelly. A USA Today article cites Johnson’s version. )

It doesn't really matter at this point. Just like I had to finally come to terms with Bill Cosby being a piece of crap ... with so many people coming forward its obvious that they make it a priority to cheat on every level possible.

Exactly. Where there is enough smoke there is fire. The Patriots cheated for years. All of their Super Bowls are forever tarnished. Belichick should NEVER be mentioned in the same breath as Lombardi, Halas, Shula...etc. It is what it is. Pats fans can deny it till they are blue in the face, just too many facts now. Too many people speaking and giving up the details.

And this goes beyond a little "gamesmanship" comparing it to throwing a spitball in baseball or using a little Vaseline on a baseball like some pitchers do. This is flat out blatant cheating across the board for close to a decade in various ways.  A well run operated system of cheating using any means necessary whether electronic or sending in people to steal material.

Oh yeah, it was totally legal. That's why they instructed employees to pretend like they didn't work for the Patriots and were filming other things.

As far as Deflategate goes, the Pats were never found innocent of that. Brady just had his suspension overturned because Goodell is an idiot. Innocent people don't destroy evidence and play Spy.

I've said this earlier on.   I hope the NFL can be like the NCAA and make the Pats vacate those Super Bowls should all of this come to light.   

It's important to note the difference between the words "hope" and "wish."

I hope my fantasy team does well this season.
I wish I was an NFL QB who was dating a supermodel.

I think your comment would have been more accurate with the term "wish."

Steelers coach Mike Tomlin was angry after the game, complaining that coaches couldn't communicate because they were hearing the Patriots radio broadcast over their headsets. The league said it was a temporary problem caused in part by the weather.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/gametracker/recap/NFL_20150910_PIT@NE

New season, same cheating shit from the Patriots, same inaction from an impotent NFL

As much as I would like to jump on this, apparently the Pats headsets were off so they couldn't use it either. Also, the headsets are controlled by the NFL. I'm going to assume it's nothing but Chris Collinsworth does have a funny statement along the lines of every team has a story like this when they get to Foxboro.

There were reports this week of the Pats jamming others teams' headsets and this plays right into that. It was a really bad time for a coincidence.

From the Steelers own website!!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COn01EIUEAAXZJI.jpg)

It's a "perception" over "reality" at this point with the Pats. Their franchise is forever tarnished (well at least as long as Kraft owns them Belichick is coach and Brady is the QB.)  Everyone outside of Pats fans just assumes they are cheating at all times. Where there is smoke there is typically fire and there is always something around this franchise, there is always smoke and most level headed people have come to the understanding they are probably cheating at all times and nothing will change their mind. No different than most level headed people assume all MLB players were on Steroids for a period in the late 90's to early 2000's. 

The Pats have an unofficial "*" next to every championship at this point. Belichick will never be considered an all time great coach. Brady will never be in the conversation for best QB of all time. It's just the reality of the situation. No matter how much they have cheated in the past or if they ever cheat again in the future....they have a tarnished legacy and it's just the way it is.  The Pats are cheaters in the eyes of all fans an non-football fans outside of New England and that is a label that isn't going away anytime soon.

Best meme I've seen this week

(http://www.fantasyfutures.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/meme-tornado.jpg)

Yup, 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/11/headset-issues-have-arisen-in-pittsburgh-too/

Anytime anyone loses, they blame it on cheating without proof, and issue issue with NE is overblown, see Deflategate vs. the exact same thing happened with the Jets balls in a game vs NE and nobody investigated the kicker. 

No real difference between what NE did vs the Ravens and how Marino beat the Jets Nov 27 1994.  The job of the offense is to confuse the defense. 

Or SI recent piece implying BB was spying on teams arriving at the airport when in fact all he was doing was reading the official updated injury report. 

The fact that many other teams sweep the NEP locker room for listening devices doesn't prove NE cheats, it proves the other teams are paranoid.  And it proves that NE doesn't have listening devices, because someone would have found one if they did. 

But here is why all of this helps NE.  If the other team is so paranoid and focused on this crap, it means less time to prepare for things that will actually affect the outcome of the game.

Yes, you can get an extra advantage when your past cheating makes other teams worried about more cheating.

Multiple coaches have said that headsets are an issue....

Panthers coach Ron Rivera has said he has had problems in other stadiums but not Foxboro.  (Yeah, I know he hasn't played many games in Foxboro, relevent point is it happens elsewhere too)

Joe Philbin said the Dolphins have never experienced headset problems at Gillette Stadium during his time as coach. Other places, yes. (He plays in Foxboro once a year)

Sean Payton said the Saints run into multiple headset problems every season, but haven't had one in New England. (Like Ron he doesn't play in NE often but the problem is widespread)

Tony Dungy says it never happened when he coached in Foxboro, but has had the issue in other stadiums often.

Rex Ryan (who is not shy about taking shots at NE) said that he knows he has had problems often but doesn't recall if they ever were specially in NE.

Beyond the issue that should end the accusations about NE cheating, why is this happening?  In 2015? I don't have that many issues with the walkie talkies I bought at walmart.  NFL makes billions of dollars they should be able to afford more reliable systems. 

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart

"At Gillette Stadium, the scrambling and jamming of the opponents' coach-to-quarterback radio line -- 'small s---' that many teams do, according to a former Pats assistant coach -- occurred so often that one team asked a league official to sit in the coaches' box during the game and wait for it to happen. Sure enough, on a key third down, the headset went out."

If I randomly punch you in the face day after day, it's silly for me to complain that you're flinching every time I scratch my nose.

If a former Pats assistant coach said it, it must not be true. He's probably just upset that he isn't there anymore.

Yeah... that's it.

At this point reality is reality. As long as we keep making apologies for New England they will continue to thumb their nose at the NFL's rules and why shouldn't they since they have been getting away with it since Belichick has been head coach. It used to be something to talk about, now it's just embarrassing for the league.

I've never been one to say fuck the Jets because I never really have had anything against them. Well the time has come for someone to say it. Fuck the Pats!

The NFL doesn't agree. They changed the rules to prevent what NE did to the Ravens, what Marino did is still perfectly within the rules. If what NE does is the same as the rest of the league why does the league keep making rules to prevent the things that NE is doing? It's time we stop making excuses for New England, they are embarrassing the league and embarrassing themselves with this type of stuff. Belichick is too good of a coach to be doing this stuff. New England has tainted their legacy. They used to be considered by most a model franchise, that distinction is gone. I keep hearing people say they don't think this stuff is the reason they've had the success that they have had, but in the next sentence they always seem to agree that it's tainted their legacy. It won't keep Brady and Belichick out of the hall of fame and I'm not suggesting it should, but there will be a huge asterisk next to their names for most people. It's a shame. They don't need to do this. They could stop it if they wanted to and could clean up their acts and disassociate their names from this petty stuff, but I don't think they will, I'm not even sure they want to. I think they enjoy being the bad guys. Some guys get a bad rep they don't deserve and then some guys have a bad rep because they relish it. I've lost all respect for Brady, Belichick, Kraft and New England. I'm tired of their shit. Fuck the Pats.

Actually, fake spikes are now against the rules.

The rule change was implemented after a series of QBs (I remember Kurt Warner and Peyton Manning) started running "fake timeout" plays.

edit: I can't find evidence of the actual rule change, so ignore the above.

At least 5 teams have "reported" having issues in that stadium after headsets mysteriously malfunctioned. Oddly enough they are the better teams.