The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Hopefully nobody.

That would mean the Patriots wouldn't win the Super Bowl.

Broncos have no real QB and now the Bengals are screwed because Dalton is done for the year. Then again, with their playoff track record, it probably wouldn't have mattered. So, the Pats have another bye into the Superbowl unless the Jets pull off an upset.

Seahawks are much better than their record, so the Panthers do have competition.

How would the Panthers do against the Patriots?

The Pats shouldn't even be 11-2 right now, so it's hard to say. The Panthers are a complete team on both sides of the ball and are the better team, but the Pats have beaten the better team before (through huge amounts of cheating) so who knows?

Do you mean the Patriots should be 13-0 or are you saying they should be worse then 11-2?

Can we please make it a rule on this site to stop talking about the Patriots cheating? 

When I say something over and over I get chastized for it.

But you guys do it a lot more than I do.

*facepalm*

Back to the thread, assuming the Patriots are fully healthy and the Panthers are fully healthy, who do you think is better?

I think the Panthers are on paper, but you know that doesn't apply in the real world.

Wait- I thought the Panthers were the worst undefeated team of all time? The only reason they're any good is their turnover ratio?

CamVP! CamVP! CamVP! CamVP! CamVP! CamVP! CamVP! CamVP!

If you have both teams completely healthy, I don't know how you can go against the Patriots. Heck, even a banged up Pats team I still would never bet against them.

Is there anyone who is worried about the Panthers going 19-0?  The question is serious, but the idea is laughable to me.

If they manage to get to 16-0, I'm certain they won't even get to 18-1; they'll lose before they get to the Super Bowl.

I think that was only Spidey who made that ridiculous claim, and he probably only did it because his primary goal in life is to cultivate a prolonged argument with anyone...over anything.


If you facepalm every time dolphins4life posts, you are going to leave a permanent palm imprint in your forehead. ;)

ya, it's already getting red

Panthers get taken down next Sunday in New York.  The Giants are true Giant Killers!

^^ Anything's possible, but Cam has 13 TD passes in the last four weeks and the Giants D is near the bottom of the league in pass defense, so I don't see it happening this week.

Why would we worry about them going 19-0.  As I said earlier, I am rooting for them to do it so the Patriots won't win the Superbowl.

Who cares about the Patriots?  Whether they win or not, I don't care -- they're already dominant in the sport and a dynasty of quality for 2 decades. 

But the undefeated season is something that is timeless, so long as we're the only ones.  I'd MUCH MUCH MUCH rather have the Pats win the Super Bowl than for Carolina to go undefeated.

I think AZ and Seattle will give the Panthers trouble in the playoffs. Not saying the Panthers can't or won't win but I think both of those teams can beat the Panthers. AZ has a top 5 Offense and Defense as well!!!!!

Eh... Not worried as much about Seattle. They can't keep running backs healthy, and I don't care how good Wilson is. If Romo, Brees, and Luck didn't put up numbers on Norman, Wilson isn't going to either. And he sure isn't going to get any cute runs past Kuechly, Davis, and Shaq.

Now Arizona- they scare me. Whole different story with that team.

There are a bunch of teams in the NFC that could beat Carolina before or during the playoffs, so I'm not too worried about it.  GB, Seattle, Arizona...any of those can be pretty scary.

When you deal with their fans on a regular basis, you root against them.

As stated earlier, your obsession borders on the extreme. This is a Dolphins board so the Patriots can be a topic of conversation but they have no place being the basis of our conversation

Couple that with the fact that YOU started a Panthers thread and put the Patriots in your very first post and I hope you see the issue.

Ladies and Gentlemen, your New Engolina Panthriots!!

Me too!!!!

I wouldn't.

I felt differently when the Colts were threatening to run the table in 2009.  I remember rooting for the Saints in the Superbowl because if the Colts had won that game, everybody would be mentioning them in the same breath as the 1972 Dolphins.

But now I feel differently about it.  Even if the Panthers run the table, at least for another year the 2007 Patriots will always remain the biggest choke job in sports history.

I just don't want to listen to Patriots fans celebrate yet another Super Bowl victory that they win because their opponent decided to literally hand the game to them. 

Plus, Ted Ginn Jr. is on the Panthers.  He got a bad rap in Miami, but every team he has played for since has done well.  Since Miami dumped him, they have gone down the sewer.

Why would anyone be mentioning the 14-2 2009 Colts in the same breath as the 1972 Dolphins?

Furthermore, you don't seem to understand that if Carolina were to go undefeated and win the Super Bowl, everyone would be mentioning THEM in the same breath as the 1972 Dolphins.  And the rest of that breath would be, "The 19-0 2015 Carolina Panthers were better than..."

...what?

Miami's record with The Ginn Family: 19-29 (.395)
Miami's record since: 41-52 (.440)

Your fundamental premise is flawed; even if Brady loses literally every NFL game he plays in from this point forward, he will be considered the consensus best QB in AFC East history, best QB in AFC history, and on the short list of best QB in NFL history.  Failing to win another Super Bowl will not change any of these things.

However, a 19-0 team (any team) immediately tarnishes the accomplishment of the 1972 Dolphins in ways that are difficult to even describe.  It is hard to imagine a scenario in which someone argues for the 17-0 Super Bowl Champion Dolphins as the greatest team ever if a 19-0 Super Bowl Champion exists.  Again, this has nothing to do with Brady, Belichick, or anything they do this year.

Where do you come up with this?

Seriously, this Pats obsession is out of hand. Read this post now that you have written it and think about it. The Panthers having an undefeated season has absolutely nothing to do with the Pats 2007 season, which I never hear anyone bring up as a sign of accomplishment since they lost the most important part.

@SpiderDan- Why would people say the 2015 Panthers are better than the 72 Phins? The Panthers are the worst undefeated team this late in the season that you've ever seen, right?

The 72 undefeated season is a nice thing for Miami fans, but it's not viewed the same way by anyone else. They played a regular season schedule against opponents under .400, barely made it past Pittsburgh to the Super Bowl, and were underdogs when they got there. That tells me that people look at your team and say, "they haven't been beaten, but they're easily beatable." I've never seen a single "Greatest teams of all time," list that has them at number 1, either. Undefeated is a fantastic achievement, but let's keep it in perspective- eventually a team will match what they did, and when that happens, that team SHOULD be thought of as better than the 72 Phins. In fact, there are a few teams that are already thought of as better than the 72 Mimai team even though they didn't go undefeated.

There aren't "a few teams that are already thought of as better than the 72 Miami team" as you put it. It's kind of funny but the 85 Bears are typically considered the best team ever and the 72 Phins as second.  Even funnier considering their one loss was to the Phins. 

There actually are a few teams, but this is the kind of response I usually see from Miami fans. I've seen lists that include one of Montana's 49ers teams, one (or more) of the Steel Curtain teams, and the obvious 85 Bears. Have a look at this link: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-best-nfl-teams-of-all-time-according-to-elo/


I'm not, by any stretch, arguing that the above list is complete or perfect. But it does list multiple teams ahead of the 72 undefeated team. Thus, I stand by my statement- there exists several opinions that more than one team is considered "better" than the undefeated 72 Dolphins.

Edit to state that I don't want to seem like I'm diminishing what an undefeated season is or what it means. It's a fantastic accomplishment that has not been repeated in the 40+ years since it happened, which absolutely makes that team one of the greatest ever. I just don't agree with the idea that it makes them the greatest team ever, which the general NFL media seems to agree with. To me it's like Wilt's 100 point game. No one has done that either, but to make the argument that he's the best player of all time because of that is nonsense.

I just Googled "greatest nfl teams of all time" and these came up on the front page. 3 out of 5 had the Bears listed #1 and the other two had the Dolphins #1. While you can find the occasional 2007 Patriots team I think it's pretty safe ... even for us Miami Fans ... to say "the 85 Bears are typically considered the best team ever and the 72 Phins as second".

https://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/football/teams/greatest.html
 Bears #1 then Dolphins #2

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/371657-the-25-greatest-nfl-teams-of-all-time-super-bowl-era
 Bears #1 then Dolphins #2

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/nfl-top-7-super-bowl-winning-teams-of-all-time.html/?a=viewall
Dolphins #1 Bears #2

http://www.thetoptens.com/nfl-teams/
Dolphins #1 Bears #2

http://nypost.com/2014/01/20/10-best-teams-in-super-bowl-history/
 Bears #1 then Dolphins #2

^^^ Wait-wait-wait...did you really just reference a Bleacher Report article and a Cheatsheet post to support your position? Are you sure you don't want to include www.FatWilliesSportsBlog.com and www.SportsJunkieLivingInMyMom sBasement.com as well? ;D

If the only criteria you are using is team record, then sure, go ahead and list the '72 Phins as the best team. I personally think "Best Team" should incorporate much more than that, and if I was making a "Best NFL Teams Ever" list, I might find a place in the top-5 for the Phins undefeated squad, but I don't think I could put them in the top-3.

That said, I was turned down for an NFL analyst position at www.SportsJunkieLivingInMyMom sBasement.com, so what do I know? ;)

This fails to explain why the '72 Dolphins come up in the media literally every year as the last undefeated team loses.

It's not Miami Dolphins fans that are running segments on ESPN about champagne corks being popped.

You've also never seen a single "Greatest teams of all time" list that doesn't have them in the competition.  Outside of the '85 Bears, what other team can you say that's mentioned in practically EVERY discussion of greatest teams ever?  That alone proves the point.

I quoted the first 5 returns which include ESPN and the New York Post. Unless Dolphin fans are running Google then I think it's safe to say someone else is talking about them as well.

That's fine. I must have misunderstood you in that you meant they were in the discussion for the greatest team of all time. Guess I was confused by this post:


You know, since you didn't speak of them as being "in the discussion," but instead argue that they're the greatest team ever. I'm sure you can understand how that would be unclear.

FWIW, I tend to agree with Sunstroke- that 72 team would be top five, but based on their weak schedule, and the fact, that they weren't even expected to win the Super Bowl that year, I wouldn't put them in the top three either.

Back on topic, at this point, the Panthers have the highest scoring offense in the league, and the Giants have the worst pass defense. Hoping that the hype of a potential undefeated season doesn't get Carolina taking this game lightly.

When one is having a discussion about the greatest teams of all time, one may argue for one's choice for that honor.  This is not a difficult concept to grasp.

I also find it rather hilarious that you are going on and on about the "weak schedule" of the '72 Dolphins.  Of the '72 Dolphins 14 wins, 9 of them came against teams with losing records; of the '15 Panthers 13 wins, 11 have come against teams with losing records.  Of the 16 games on CAR's schedule, 14 of them are against teams that currently have losing records... and you're citing strength of schedule as a disqualifying factor?  You might want to reconsider that talking point if CAR makes it to 16-0.

Given that Carolina, thus far, has a SoS of .444 vs. 72 Miami's .367, maybe I won't. ;)

You stated that they're the worst 11-0 team in history. Now, they're the worst 13-0 team ever, right? I'm OK with that. They can be the absolute WORST NFL team to ever win 14, 15, whatever number of games if they win it all. The guy that graduates at he bottom of his class in med school is still called "Dr."

"The guy who graduates at the bottom of the class" is, indeed, a fair analogy for this year's Panthers.  However, since the Panthers haven't actually graduated yet, and have miserably failed the midterms in recent years, perhaps you should hold off on discussing exactly where they reside in the pantheon of greatness.

32-12 with 3 division titles in the last three seasons is considered failing miserably. Got it. Carry on.

Edit to add- I never once made any claim that they are an all-time "great" team. I'm not sure I've even said that they're the best team in the league. But your dismissal of what they're accomplishing without their career leading rusher and without thier #1 WR this year is absurd.

Failing to win a divisional round game means they aced the daily homework but failed miserably on the midterms.  But yeah, CAR did add two more divisional championship banners to the rafters, so there is that.

Furthermore, you directly compared the 2015 Panthers to the 1972 Dolphins... a team that comes up in practically every discussion of "all-time great teams".  So again, you should probably hold off on the documentary.

All of these dumb analogies are killing me...

Bottom line is Carolina is the best team in the league until someone beats them.  You can't put them in any all time great list until after the end of the season.

No I didn't. YOU opened that door in reply #25. You're the one who is all worried about what people will say about the 72 Dolphins if Carolina (who you believe is the worst undefeated team ever) should go 19-0. That's all on you.

Oh, I certainly compared them directly; I said that this year's CAR team has faced an even worse slate of opponents than that MIA team.  And that's fine, because my position is that one of the widely acknowledged greatest teams of all time is better than this CAR team; a team whose crowning achievement so far is a division title (or if you want to go further back, a solitary Super Bowl loss).

In response to that characterization, you replied and cited opponent win %.   But the only way such a response makes sense is if you are disagreeing with me and claiming that CAR is better; otherwise, why bother replying?  What possible point could you have been making, other to claim that a team that has never won anything of consequence compares favorably to arguably the best team ever?

edit: If Golden State had finished last year with a losing record and an early playoff exit, I doubt many people would be comparing them to the '96 Bulls today.  But apparently, you think CAR merits that comparison...

Josh Norman has held DeAndre Hopkins, Mike Evans, TY Hilton, Dez Braynt, and Julio Jones to a combined 9 receptions for 89 yards this year. Wow.

I'd like the dolphins to fail that well

I'd imagine it would be even better for the Dolphins to go 16-0 and then lose in the Super Bowl, yet we still laugh at the Patriots for that.

One thing always lost in this discussion with the '72 Dolphins is what they did the following year, losing only 2 games and repeating as Super Bowl champions.  This, in a day and age where players didn't leave and the roster was, basically, the same - playing against teams who - likewise - had similar rosters (IE, it's not like Miami went out and "rented" a "super star" to put them over the top).

So, for that two year period, Miami went 32-2 and two titles over that span.  The consensus #1 / 2 team (Bears) went 11-4 the year following 1986 and lost in the divisional round.  The Bears, like Miami, also played in a time without a salary cap, and prior to free agency; they could sign whoever the hell they wanted.

I look at the body of what with both, generally dismissing the "Miami had a light schedule" argument for the undefeated season (when discussion "greatest team ever").  That same team rattled off 32 wins / 2 losses and two titles in, that was pretty damn impressive.  The Bears, going 11-4 the following year was impressive as well.

For my money, a lot comes into play with "greatest team ever."  A couple 49er teams come to mind, as do Steelers teams, which shouldn't be dismissed.  I digress.

The Carolina Panthers - regardless of who they have played...have won.  Every single time.  You beat who you're supposed to beat, and they can't control the schedule.  I think they have a shot at something special, I'd like to see a Panther / Cardinal came (with both teams healthy).

The Panthers definitely have a relatively clear path to that 16-0 mark, with only the Giants, Falcons and Bucs left on the schedule. I have a hard time, in a vacuum, seeing any of those teams beating Carolina. Anything is possible, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if Carolina runs the table.

The NFC playoffs are going to be absolutely brutal this year. Carolina, Arizona, Green Bay, Seattle...any of them could beat any of the others on any given Sunday. I would almost guarantee that whichever scrub team comes out of the NFC East is going to get bounced and trounced solidly the opening week of the playoffs.


 

After watching Eli's Giants stumble drunkenly through the regular season and then become playoff juggernauts, not once but twice, I wouldn't want to be the person on the opposite side of a bet on an NYG playoff game.

Add in they were 10-3-1 and lost in the Super Bowl the year prior.

Honestly, if Carolina loses a game this regular season, this weekend is the one that I think they may get upset in, partly because Stewart is out, and Olsen is questionable. Even if he plays, it will be with a bad wheel, and Cam relies on him so much, that not having a 100% Olsen will hurt the offense. No knock on Dickson, but Olsen is having an All-Pro year.

Close but no cigar! :'(

Ted Ginn sure lit it up today.  

Miami never should have let him go.  

One of the dumbest moves in team history.

Don't know what they were thinking with that.  

^^^ Ted Ginn was crap. Stone hands and didn't want someone hitting him.

Ted Ginn is having his first good (not great) year since we drafted him EIGHT YEARS AGO!  One of the dumbest moves in this sites history is you thinking it was a mistake getting rid of him.

On the other hand, two of his best years have come with Carolina and Cam throwing him the ball. I don't think that's coincidence. Ginn is a middle of the road receiver at best, but it's not like he was getting the ball thrown to him by any of the greats of the game outside of Newton.

And don't give me that "Carson Palmer isn't great?!" Debate. Palmer only played 5 1/2 games the year Ginn was in Arizona and he was looking for Floyd and Fitzgerald when he did play.

If you've watched any of Carolina's games this year what you've seen is Ted dropping sure-thing catches and Cam going back to him right away. One of many reasons Newton is going to run away with the MVP this year- he has no memory of previous plays or drops. Every snap is fresh and he isn't going to shy away from either Ginn or Brown after their numerous dropped balls.

Apparently the answer to the thread is, "Atlanta."

Panthers aren't going to win the Super Bowl.  I doubt they will even make it there.

Given what I am watching right now, the Cardinals look like the team to beat

Arizona looks really tough...David Johnson is a straight up monster, and their passing attack is deep and scary. I still think that Carolina has the talent to beat any team in the league right now, but if they don't bring their best game against Arizona, the Cardinals will break out a whoopin' stick on them.

If there is anybody who deserves a one and done it is cam newton.

Is AZ is still a season ticket holder? If so it would help to take some of the sting out of our crappy soap opera.

Yes I am and this marks year 17 my friend. I will be there tomorrow night for the game against the Packers. As much as I hate Seattle I kind of want them to beat Carolina so that the NFC Championship game would be at home for the Cardinals (barring they win of tomorrow of course). The 2009 NFC Championship game against the Eagles is still by far the best Cardinals game I have even been to and I want to have that feeling again this year. Also really want the Cards to make the SB because I am supposed to have a ticket to make up for last years blunder and it would be great to see the Redbirds at SB 50 and be there in person.

Very cool. Have fun and good luck!!